Yes!
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Yes!
Yes.
I'm going to say yes... although I'm not quite sure I'm 100% satisfied with how I've talked myself into that.
I think the danger element of doing an illegal substance adds significantly to usage rates... and once somebody tries something, there's always a chance they'll continue to try it until they're completely addicted. Getting rid of that danger element that teens love, while also clearing the justice system of hundreds of thousands of prisoners, while also opening up new revenue streams is a win/win/win in my book.
John Stossel was on Hannity a few weeks ago and said that he was for the complete legalization of drugs... Hannity said something to the effect of "You wouldn't mind if there were people high walking amongst you?". Stossel replied that he's certain that they already are walking amongst him. That's the view I have I suppose.
people who are gonna do drugs are gonna do drugs.
of course it's never gonna happen anytime soon because of social conservatives and the current group in Washington. In a generation or so, when people my age are the ones in congress, it's a possibility.
Ok, I just wanted to establish your position clearly. All drugs legal and drug manufacturers have no responsibility for the drugs they make and sell. I'm sure pharmaceutical companies would support that position.Quote:
Originally Posted by braeden0613
Or does that only apply to currently illegal drugs? Where people can go into a store and buy heroine or meth but vicodin would still be a controlled substance? Would Merck be able to put Viox back on the market in your everything is legal world? Would Pfiser be able to develop and sell BetterThanCrack™ without any risk of being sued?
I'm shocked -- a liberal just happens to a crackhead and heroin addict, and wants his stash to be legal!Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan
Who needs stereotypes when the reality is so much more entertaining?
Well, those countries don't have the same, um, demographics.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan
:bang If drugs were actually legalized in this country, they would be regulated just as much or probably more than tobacco and alcohol. I'm sure there would be warnings in fluorescent colors all over the packaging letting everyone know that the drugs are harmful. Meanwhile, prescription drugs continue as usual, not sold at Wal-mart to little children like your scenario suggests.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
And many board Republicans/conservatives agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeland Security
HS = fail
Certain drugs are addictive. Once addicted, you waste all your money buying more and more. ONce you have no more money, you steal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue
So your statement is not entirely accurate
Like alcohol?Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiHeat
No, not really.
So you don't think there are alcoholics who spend every dime they have on booze?Quote:
Originally Posted by FaithInOne
So what would the drug-banners like to happen? We obviously aren't doing a good job controlling the drug trade currently. What is the solution?
Why not also unban other drugs as long as marijuana is acceptable? The drugs themselves are not evils, the abuse of this drugs are. Taking a small amount of drug occasionally is far from enough to build an addiction, but it may save a life from suicide.Quote:
Originally Posted by FaithInOne
The tax payer dollars are being wasted on wars in billions, but not on taking care of everyone. Citizens are born with the God-given rights to live in this world, also with the rights to choose for themselves whether to take the drugs or not.
The murders on an old woman are even more bare than air crashes, comparably the gangs kill tens of innocent people every day, excluding the lives of gang members lost in gang wars.
Not only the drugs should be legalized, but anything that used to be considered bad, like prostitution. You can ban the merchants but the folks always have some other steams legal or illegal to get access to what they demand.
why don't we all just destroy all types of drugs for recreational use off the face of the univese? that would be even better!!
Give them away at free clinics. It would be cheaper than continuing to lose the "war on drugs" to the tune of a huge budget itme every year for something that's clearly not working.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiHeat
Straw man. We're talking two kinds of liability. There's the liability for acts committed under the influence (personal), and there's liability for product. Do you really think if Jim Beam or Hiram Walker accidentally made batches of booze with Methyl instead of Ethyl alcohol and folks went blind or died, people wouldn't (justifiably) be suing the shit out of them.?Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
Big Pharma isn't off the hook, but nice try. Product liability lives!!
Would you agree that if meth were made legal then companies (maybe Big Pharma) would manufacture meth and sell it (i.e. it's a product). In your twisted logic they would be liable for an unintended side effect for a life saving medicine but would have no such liability for the known side effects of meth...Quote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
http://www.digital-immersion.net/met...arsmethuse.jpg
Stop the "war" on drugs and have sensible solutions. Legalize pot. For truely destructive drugs like meth, crack, heroine have harsh penalties for dealers and effective treatment programs (determined by medical science not politics) for those that are unfortunate enough to get hooked on them. In other words, punish those who profit off victimizing others with these hardcore drugs and treat the users like victims instead of crimminals. This is much closer to the swiss approach than your "legalize it all" approach which is just ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by braeden0613
Stop with the alchohol comparisons already. That's valid when your talking about marijuana not when your talking about stuff like meth, crack, heroine. It only shows you have no clue how powerfully addictive and destructive these types of drugs are.
Or what the hell let's become a nation of meth addicts. Better yet lets chew some khat and become pirates.
Yeah yeah we know meth is bad, you don't have to bring out the scary pictures. And you really believe Big Pharma would start making meth? That's some great PR.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
We already have three strike and no-tolerance laws toward drug dealing. They aren't working. When the profit motive is so ridiculously high, even enacting the death penalty for dealers wouldn't completely stop it. I think treatment programs would be a great idea, however. At the places that dispense drugs, let them promote some type of non-profit that deals with drug addiction (like casinos and gambling addiction). And I still believe the alcohol comparison is very relevant as it still kills much more people a year than hardcore drugs.
Not really, but that wasn't the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by braeden0613
Oh well, I'm bored with this now so I'll concede defeat to you. Your plan is right on. Maybe I can win the next "Shit that's never going to happen" debate.
:toast
Probably a good point, although I bet pot will be legalized or decriminalized in the next 10-15 years. Other drugs, well you never know.
All drugs, should be legal to all people--on average.
I think 10-15 years is too optimistic. Probably a full generation away, so 25-30 years. Alot of old people have to die off before it can happen and they're living longer these days.
Plus the legalize pot movement isn't very well organized...go figure lol.
You are crazy if you think that it would cost more to rehabilitate drug users than to continue the war on drugs. These costs are minuscule in comparison to the costs of our already legal drugs.
The government spends $17 billion dollars of taxpayer dollars to inefficiently combat drug cartels that will never let up. Prisons are filled with notorious gangs completely centered around the drug trade. We spend $17 billion a year and yet people still do drugs. People still die in the streets. Poor neighborhoods get poorer.
We have 300,000-355,000 of our own private citizens in prison for doing what they want with their own body, and an additional 100,000-200,000 violent inmates, many with multiple murder convictions from gang warfare and killings of people with debt, leading to an alarming 30% of all convicts to be directly related to drugs.
These inmates cost the government $1.1 billion dollars a year to keep incarcerated.
This doesn't even count the countless billions that we have done in tasks such as:
- military training for foreign countries
- giving military equipment to foreign countries
- cost of welfare paid to families who's provider is incarcerated in drug charges
We currently spend some $9 billion a year treating lung cancer, of which an incredible 90% are from the result of legal tobacco usage. There is no illegal drug that can even begin to approach the costs of treating lung cancer from smokers. If we can pay the burden to give random people lung transplants and surgery, we can rehab some meth users.
This doesn't even begin to touch alcohol. 13,000 people die each year in drunk driving accidents. Twice as many violent crimes occur when a criminal is under the influence of alcohol than every illegal drug combined. 75,000 people die a year from the medical effects of alcohol. $22 billion a year goes into treating medical problems related to alcohol abuse.
What about the human costs?
The Aryan Brotherhood is a sick enough example. Their members make up 1% of the prison population and cause 18% of all prison related murders. Inmates are already imprisoned on multiple-homicide charges and have nothing to lose by killing other inmates, guards, or worse. There have been several cases where a person unable to pay debt to their dealers have had the murders of their entire families ordered from within the prison complex itself. Even in a prison, under the eye of security, inmates smuggle in drugs and smuggle out money.
These prison gangs like MS13 recruit children and teenagers into their sick wars for territory and selling locations. This underground economy is driven by the government artificially suppressing supply of the drugs, causing the huge demand to spike drug prices into a range that is too good to pass up, no matter the cost to anyone. Gangs move in and lower the value of properties, destroy lives, and elude the pointless billions of dollars that we spend to hunt them down.
This debate is a joke. There is no way anyone can say that these "hard drugs" could cost more than alcohol and tobacco in either human cost or actual dollar cost. This doesn't even begin to talk about the implications of restricting what people can put into their own bodies.
So if you wish for currently illegal drugs to remain that way, then you must of course want tobacco and alcohol to be illegal too; seeing as those two industries combine for a health care cost that is astronomical in comparison to any estimated cost that legalizing presently illegal drugs. And I know that no one here will give up their beer and cigs, even if it their tax dollars are treating their neighbors cirrhosis of the liver or lobectomy or transplant.
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I see your
http://www.digital-immersion.net/met...arsmethuse.jpg
and raise you a
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erous_lung.jpg
or
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...arcinoma_1.jpg
or
http://www.daily-tribune.com/article...sh3-14_lrg.jpg
Alcohol and tobacco are easily just as bad as any other addictive drug imo. They both fuck up your body and get you hooked not to mention like meth make you look disgusting - beer bellies, yellow teeth, followed by chemotherapy to stay alive from the cancer you put in, etc.