So, not only did Holder's DOJ...

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

If it is what you claimed it to be, yes. Thanks.

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Okay, now you're babbling.

If you have no knowledge of what was done, how can you call it torture?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Yes, their retention "schedule" is to destroy tapes when a judge asks for them. You love being ignorant, don't you?

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And, someone went to jail over that, right?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

People who are tortured can indeed live.

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So can people who are merely waterboarded. In fact, everyone who has ever undergone the U. S. version of waterboarding has survived.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Okay, now you're babbling.

If you have no knowledge of what was done, how can you call it torture?

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I said if it went as you described, yes. Are you now backing away from your own description?

I don't blame you. You fare quite badly when you try to operate without stealing.

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And, someone went to jail over that, right?

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That is still in the courts. Why would they destroy the tapes when a judge asked for them?

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So can people who are merely waterboarded. In fact, everyone who has ever undergone the U. S. version of waterboarding has survived.

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So what? People can survive all manner of trauma. You condone the rape of women as an interrogation technique since it is survivable.

As long as a Republican lawyer says it's ok.

Bravo.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I said if it went as you described, yes. Are you now backing away from your own description?

I don't blame you. You fare quite badly when you try to operate without stealing.

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I don't think I've ever described the procedure except to say, it is my understanding that this is the same procedure inflicted on thousands of U. S. Military personnel when they go through SERE training. And, if so, it's not torture.

You're the one who admitted to not knowing what was being done...and yet, you're convinced it is torture. Are you now going to say that our SERE trainees are tortured? Because, none of them have been killed or injured by the waterboarding they've undergone.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

That is still in the courts. Why would they destroy the tapes when a judge asked for them?

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Why isn't someone in jail? Apparently the courts don't have their panties in as big a wad as you.

But, I'll tell you this. Considering how Obama is betraying the intelligence community in releasing documents and photos, it was a smart thing to do.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So what? People can survive all manner of trauma. You condone the rape of women as an interrogation technique since it is survivable.

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Nope. But, waterboarding is a safe, humane, and effective form of interrogation that won't get you pregnant or give you and STD.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

As long as a Republican lawyer says it's ok.

Bravo.

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Bravo, indeed.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

I don't think I've ever described the procedure except to say, it is my understanding that this is the same procedure inflicted on thousands of U. S. Military personnel when they go through SERE training. And, if so, it's not torture.

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So we were training detainees to resist torture?

:lmao

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You're the one who admitted to not knowing what was being done...and yet, you're convinced it is torture. Are you now going to say that our SERE trainees are tortured? Because, none of them have been killed or injured by the waterboarding they've undergone.

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I'm saying they were being trained to resist torture if captured. To that end, they were voluntarily subjected to various forms of torture.

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Why isn't someone in jail? Apparently the courts don't have their panties in as big a wad as you.

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Why were they destroyed?

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But, I'll tell you this. Considering how Obama is betraying the intelligence community in releasing documents and photos, it was a smart thing to do.

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They were detroyed while Bush was president. Why would they destroy them?

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Nope. But, waterboarding is a safe, humane, and effective form of interrogation

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Prove it.

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that won't get you pregnant or give you and STD.

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Neither is rape if your lawyer tells you the right way to do it.

Bravo, indeed.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So we were training detainees to resist torture?

:lmao

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Yes, by using a technique that stopped short of torture. Keep up. We don't torture our own people.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I'm saying they were being trained to resist torture if captured. To that end, they were voluntarily subjected to various forms of torture.

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Because you say that doesn't make it so.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Why were they destryoed?

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I don't know, I wasn't in on that decision. Have they said?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

They were detroyed while Bush was president. Why would they destroy them?

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Prescience?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Prove it.

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Nobody's died or been injured (safe), I refuse to believe we'd be inhumane to our own troops (humane), produced actionable intelligence that saved American lives (effective).

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Neither is rape if your lawyer tells you the right way to do it.

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There's a wrong way? You're being silly...who would we get to rape Khalid Sheik Mohammed?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Bravo, indeed.

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Wooo Hooo!

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Yes, by using a technique that stopped short of torture. Keep up. We don't torture our own people.

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Sure we do -- if we are training them how to resist torture.

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Because you say that doesn't make it so.

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Because that's what we do makes it so.

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I don't know, I wasn't in on that decision. Have they said?

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Take a guess.

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Prescience?

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I understand why you don't want to even acknowledge this.

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Nobody's died or been injured (safe), I refuse to believe we'd be inhumane to our own troops (humane), produced actionable intelligence that saved American lives (effective).

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Your claims are not proof.

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There's a wrong way? You're being silly...who would we get to rape Khalid Sheik Mohammed?

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If a Republican lawyer told you it would work, you would let KSM rape you.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Sure we do -- if we are training them how to resist torture.

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We don't train medics by shooting our soldiers, do we?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Because that's what we do makes it so.

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So, tell me this. Is there any other technique -- other than waterboarding -- that has been employed by the Bush administration that you consider torture?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Take a guess.

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Okay. I'll guess no since you're not tearing up their reason yet.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I understand why you don't want to even acknowledge this.

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Do you?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Your claims are not proof.

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Nor are yours.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

If a Republican lawyer told you it would work, you would let KSM rape you.

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If we're willing to inflict it on our soldiers to train them. Yes. Let me know when we start raping in SERE.

Why don't we drive bamboo shoots under fingernails, pull out fingernails, or drill holes in our soldiers during SEER?

Why don't we line up three soldiers against the wall and shoot one of them in the head?

After all, that would prepare them for the torture they might encounter if captured; Right?

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

We don't train medics by shooting our soldiers, do we?

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Are they being trained to take a bullet? No. Analogy: failed.

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So, tell me this. Is there any other technique -- other than waterboarding -- that has been employed by the Bush administration that you consider torture?

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Why do you want to muddy the waters?

Oh, that's right. You're losing.

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Okay. I'll guess no since you're not tearing up their reason yet.

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"No" isn't an answer to "why would they destroy them?"

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Do you?

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Yes.

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Nor are yours.

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Which is why I didn't use them as proof.

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If we're willing to inflict it on our soldiers to train them. Yes. Let me know when we start raping in SERE.

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The Chinese didn't use rape to extract false confessions.

They used waterboarding for that.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

bullshit

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You really don't know why SERE exists, do you?

Tell us all how it got started.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I don't have a response for you so I'll go down this rabbit trail.

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Nice try.

So, if we torture our soldiers to train them what to expect then, why not go all out?

And, you didn't answer the earlier question. Are there other enhanced interrogation techniques, used by the Bush administration, you consider to be torture?

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Nice try.

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So you don't know or you are afraid to answer. Either way is fine.

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And, you didn't answer the earlier question. Are there other enhanced interrogation techniques, used by the Bush administration, you consider to be torture?

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I'm content to stick to waterboarding at this point.

Tell me, if the military thinks waterboarding is awesome and has known it for 50 years, why do they not waterboard all their prisoners as a matter of course?

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Nope. But, waterboarding is a safe, humane, and effective form of interrogation that won't get you pregnant or give you and STD.

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Orly? What are the attending physician and the trach kit for?

Detainees who contumaciously stop breathing during the course of interrogation?

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Orly? What are the attending physician and the trach kit for?

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Accidents happen. Why is there an AED in most workplaces these days?

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Detainees who contumaciously stop breathing during the course of interrogation?

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Where did you get that word? I had to look it up.

But, since I did, I can report that 4 year-olds contumaciously stop breathing whenever they don't get their way. Are their parents torturing them by not giving them the cookie?

Contumacious (adjective) - stubbornly disobedient, wilfully obstinate or rebellious.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Accidents happen.

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That's awfully generous of you, Yoni.

Nice you admit it though.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

That's awfully generous of you, Yoni.

Nice you admit it though.

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Well, to my knowledge, none did.

And, they have ambulances at Football games too. Are those torture?

Are parents waterboarding their kids?

I would call that torture.

You would call it safe, humane and effective.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Where did you get that word?

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With its specifically legal inflection (willfully disobedient to the order of a court) it describes a prevalent attitude toward the law.

You know, like when a court orders the historical record to be preserved, and the party the court makes responsible for the preservation destroys it instead.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

And, they have ambulances at Football games too. Are those torture?

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God you're so trite. There are about three dozen clear homicides among the hundred or so who died in US custody of other than natural causes. That means killings for which no legal justification could be established by the military investigator.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

With its specifically legal inflection (willfully disobedient to the order of a court) it describes a prevalent attitude toward the law.

You know, like when a court orders the historical record to be preserved, and the party the court makes responsible for the preservation destroys it instead.

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So, in the context of your sentence, what are you saying?

"...contumaciously stopped breathing..."

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Are parents waterboarding their kids?

I would call that torture.

You would call it safe, humane and effective.

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If their children had been responsible for toppling two buildings and killing three thousand people and, it was probable they had information about other kids preparing to do the same, yeah, I'd consider waterboarding appropriate.

I don't care what you call it.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

God you're so trite. There are about three dozen clear homicides among the hundred or so who died in US custody of other than natural causes. That means killings for which no legal justification could be established by the investigator.

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Just trying to make a point.

Hell, if the Bush Administration was so cavalier about "torture" or the treatment of the detainees, why would they even bother with a doctor?

On the one hand, you would have me believe they were running torture chambers resembling those Saddam Hussein was so famous for; yet, on the other, we provided medical care just in case something went wrong.

Shit happens.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

If their children had been responsible for toppling two buildings and killing three thousand people and, it was probable they had information about other kids preparing to do the same, yeah, I'd consider waterboarding appropriate.

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But it's safe, humane and effective.

Why not use it on everybody?

If the officials at your school suspected your child knew the location of drugs in the school and your child refused to tell them, you should have no problem with your child's being waterboarded.

It's safe, humane and effective isn't it?