Dealergate

I know you guys would rather carry on about waterboarding and Abu Ghraib prison rape, but I thought this story was more interesting and definitely more political.


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-46261447.html

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Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings

By: MARK TAPSCOTT
Editorial Page Editor
05/27/09 3:37 PM EDT

Evidence appears to be mounting that the Obama administration has systematically targeted for closing Chrysler dealers who contributed to Repubicans. What started earlier this week as mainly a rumbling on the Right side of the Blogosphere has gathered some steam today with revelations that among the dealers being shut down are a GOP congressman and closing of competitors to a dealership chain partly owned by former Clinton White House chief of staff Mack McLarty.

The basic issue raised here is this: How do we account for the fact millions of dollars were contributed to GOP candidates by Chrysler who are being closed by the government, but only one has been found so far that is being closed that contributed to the Obama campaign in 2008?

Florida Rep. Vern Buchanan learned from a House colleague that his Venice, Florida, dealership is on the hit list. Buchanan also has a Nissan franchise paired with the Chrysler facility in Venice.

"It's an outrage. It's not about me. I'm going to be fine," said Buchanan, the dealership's majority owner. "You're talking over 100,000 jobs. We're supposed to be in the business of creating jobs, not killing jobs," Buchanan told News 10, a local Florida television station.

Buchanan, who succeeded former Rep. Katharine Harris in 2006, reportedly learned of his dealership's termination from Rep.Candace Miller, R-MI. Buchanan owns a total of 23 dealerships in Florida and North Carolina.

Also fueling the controversy is the fact the RLJ-McCarty-Landers chain of Arkansas and Missouri dealerships aren't being closed, but many of their local competitors are being eliminated. Go here for a detailed look at this situation. McClarty is the former Clinton senior aide. The "J" is Robert Johnson, founder of the Black Entertainment Television, a heavy Democratic contributor.

A lawyer representing a group of Chrysler dealers who are on the hit list deposed senior Chrysler executives and later told Reuters that he believes the closings have been forced on the company by the White House.

"It became clear to us that Chrysler does not see the wisdom of terminating 25 percent of its dealers. It really wasn't Chrysler's decision. They are under enormous pressure from the President's automotive task force," said attorney Leonard Bellavia.

RedState.com's Josh Painter has a useful roundup of what has been found so far by a growing number of bloggers digging into what could be a very big story indeed. Also, see my column on this issue and how it fits into the larger context dubbed by the Examiner's Michael Barone as "gangster government."

As part of Chrysler's bankruptcy agreement with the White House, the company plans to close roughly a quarter of its 3,200 dealerships. Lists of the dealerships being cut and those retaining their Chrysler franchises can be found here in pdf format. Many dealers contend the criteria being used to determine which dealerships survive is not clear and that many of those that are being closed in fact are profitable businesses, despite the current recession.

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I just assumed they'd close down the corrupt Dealerships.

Anecdote and innuendo. Where's the beef?

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Anecdote and innuendo. Where's the beef?

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Here's a very good and thoughtful blog on this issue.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/200...ence-that.html


He's calculated the odds that certain dealerships owned by Obama supporters would remain open while all local dealerships owned by Repuclican supporters would close at something like one ten-millionth of one percent. :wow

buchanan has 100,000 employees?

thats just too many sales people for one lot.

That's why we all feel like mice entering the falcon nest when we put one step on a car lot.

(yawn)

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News Flash: Car Dealers are Republicans (It's Called a Control Group, People)
by Nate Silver @ 6:50 PM

A meme that is currently picking up traction in the conservative blogosphere is that the list of dealerships to be shuttered as a result of Chrysler's bankruptcy contains a disproportionate number donors to Republican candidates. There have been furious efforts to prove this contention by looking up campaign contributor lists at the Huffington Post, Open Secrets, and other places.

There is just one problem with this theory. Nobody has bothered to look up data for the control group: the list of dealerships which aren't being closed. It turns out that all car dealers are, in fact, overwhelmingly more likely to donate to Republicans than to Democrats -- not just those who are having their doors closed.

Here, for instance, is what Huffington Post's Fundrace site turns up for those who list their occupation as "auto dealer":

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ieXw28ZUp...autodealer.PNG

Republican donations outstrip Democratic ones by about 8.6:1. Next, let's try "car dealer":

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ieXw28ZUp...utodealer2.PNG

For some reason, those persons who describe themselves as "car dealers" are just slightly more likely to donate to Democrats than those who call themselves "auto dealers". Nevertheless, the list of contributions tilts Republican by better than a 3:1 margin.

Next up, "automobile dealer":

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ieXw28ZUp...utodealer3.PNG

Roughly a 10:1 advantage for Republicans. Finally, we'll look at the slightly more obscure formation of "automotive dealer":

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ieXw28ZUp...utodealer4.PNG

Big Republican edge here too.

Combining the data:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ieXw28ZUp...utodealer5.PNG

Overall, 88 percent of the contributions from car dealers went to Republican candidates and just 12 percent to Democratic candidates. By comparison, the list of dealers on Doug Ross's list (which I haven't vetted, but I assume is fine) gave 92 percent of their money to Republicans -- not really a significant difference.

There's no conspiracy here, folks -- just some bad math.

It shouldn't be any surprise, by the way, that car dealers tend to vote -- and donate -- Republican. They are usually male, they are usually older (you don't own an auto dealership in your 20s), and they have obvious reasons to be pro-business, pro-tax cut, anti-green energy and anti-labor. Car dealerships need quite a bit of space and will tend to be located in suburban or rural areas. I can't think of too many other occupations that are more natural fits for the Republican Party. Unfortunately, while we are still a nation of drivers, we are not a nation of dealers.

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Yeah, just goes to show how Obumbler protects the lazy union workers over productive business owners.

^LOL at this lame analysis.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

^LOL at this lame analysis.

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^LOL at you not providing any reason why it's "lame"

Deal....or no deal.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

^LOL at you not providing any reason why it's "lame"

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The fact the the majority of car dealerships are GOP contributers doesn't explain why only one Chrysler dealership that contributed to Obama has been shuttered.


That's why that analysis was lame. Any more questions?

This is a bunch to do about nothing. Dealership owners, generally speaking, are going to be more affluent and therefore part of a demographic that is strongly republican. In addition, there is a high number of rural dealerships that are being targeted simply because they aren't close enough to large population centers. Rural areas represent another strong republican demographic.

There's already plenty of reasons to not like Obama's handling of the auto industry to choose from. There's no need to try and manufacture an artificial one.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

This is a bunch to do about nothing. Dealership owners, generally speaking, are going to be more affluent and therefore part of a demographic that is strongly republican. In addition, there is a high number of rural dealerships that are being targeted simply because they aren't close enough to large population centers. Rural areas represent another strong republican demographic.

There's already plenty of reasons to not like Obama's handling of the auto industry to choose from. There's no need to try and manufacture an artificial one.

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If something stands out as a statistical anomaly, it is not a manufactured issue.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

The fact the the majority of car dealerships are GOP contributers doesn't explain why only one Chrysler dealership that contributed to Obama has been shuttered.


That's why that analysis was lame. Any more questions?

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Yeah, what percentage of Chysler dealers actually contributed to Obama?

Thanks in advance for your quick reply.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

If something stands out as a statistical anomaly, it is not a manufactured issue.

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Unless your dealing with criminal statistics and the african american communiy being overly represented in prisons. So shoud I assume this is not a manufactured issue?

I'm not so sure there's a scandal but, much of the anecdotal evidence sure makes it look fishy. It Doesn't help that Obama's car czar is married to the DNC head financial guru that knows exactly who gave to the Obama campaign...including Car Dealers.

I bet this ends up in court...over that issue.

..the Washington Examiner is outraged!!!

Naturally, this is the discussion instead of the notion that Uncle Sam should be creating American Auto. So I guess he'll get his ass handed to him by Japanese auto companies, operating no less in the US. What a stupid fucking country.

Coming in the Summer of 2013...Asset Bubble III: You've Been Fooled Once Again.

May be getting legs...

McCaskill, Bond ask car czar for details about closing dealerships

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“Many Missouri dealers are asking us why certain profitable dealers, costing the auto companies nothing, were selected for closure,” McCaskill, a Democrat, and Bond, a Republican, wrote to White House car czar Steve Rattner. “From this perspective it appears an arbitrary standard may have been used to make these decisions … these dealers deserve a little more than just a pink slip in the mail.”

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Fishy Item 1: Using the list of all 789 dealerships to be closed, WND found that owners contributed $450,000 to GOP presidential candidates; $7,970 to Sen. Hillary Clinton; $2,200 to John Edwards and $450 to Barack Obama. For the "progressives" out there, that's a 1000-to-1 ratio of GOP-to-Obama donations for closed dealerships.

Fishy Item 2: Dealership conglomerate RLJ is owned by Democrat bigwigs Mack McLarty and Robert Johnson. RLJ magically happened to keep all six (6) of their dealerships while its competitors were shuttered. McLarty is a former Clinton chief-of-staff and Robert Johnson (founder of BET) is a major Democrat fundraiser.

Fishy Item 3: Democratic donor Sidney Deboer is Chairman of Lithia Motors. He donated over $14,000 to Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) and Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY). Lithia Motors lost only two of its 29 dealerships while gaining as many as five additional ones in the resulting carnage.

Fishy Item 4: White House car czar Steven Rattner is married to Maureen White, the former national finance chairman of the Democratic National Committee. And before Rattner became a major player on Wall Street, he was a New York Times reporter. Rattner is a key decision-maker on the Obama-slash-General-Motors-slash-Chrysler management team.

Otherwise, "conservatives" are perfectly happy with the federales moving into the vehicle manufacturing business and shuttering private companies.

Hey Yoni.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Yeah, what percentage of Chysler dealers actually contributed to Obama?

Thanks in advance for your quick reply.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Hey Yoni.

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I have no idea but, there is already evidence of successful, prosperous dealerships (owned by Republican donors) being closed while troubled, in the hole, dealerships (owned by Democrat donors) being left open.

I think it warrants looking into. Do you?

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

I have no idea

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No shit, you don't. That's your mantra.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

No shit, you don't. That's your mantra.

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Do you know?

Not for Chrysler dealers specifically, but people who looked into this found that only 8-12% of those who called themselves car dealers gave to Obama.

Now, would that make you think that more Republican-donating Chrysler dealers would be shut down than Democrat-donating ones, or fewer?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Not for Chrysler dealers specifically, but people who looked into this found that only 8-12% of those who called themselves car dealers gave to Obama.

Now, would that make you think that more Republican-donating Chrysler dealers would be shut down than Democrat-donating ones, or fewer?

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I don't know. How many gave to McCain? How many of those are not Chrysler dealers?

Okay, I've already said I don't know if there's a scandal but, a bi-partisan set of Senators want an investigation.

Do you even concede it's a bit suspicious?

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

I don't know.

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There you go again.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

There you go again.

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So, you know everything?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Not for Chrysler dealers specifically, but people who looked into this found that only 8-12% of those who called themselves car dealers gave to Obama.

Now, would that make you think that more Republican-donating Chrysler dealers would be shut down than Democrat-donating ones, or fewer?

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Well, the people that "looked into it" are apparently wrong...

According to this source, car dealers, on the whole, gave 76% to Republicans and 24% to Democrats in 2008.

That's a bit different than the 2.36% Democrat vs. 97.64% Republican dealerships represented in the 789 Chrysler dealerships closed by the Obama-designed scheme. Hell, even using your percentages, that's pretty far off of what would be expected or, dare I say, hoped for in a fair scheme.

I said Obama, not Democrats.

You just keep proving how little you understand the English language.

Keep expect alive!

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I said Obama, not Democrats.

You just keep proving how little you understand the English language.

Keep expect alive!

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Okay, so you have 8-12% giving to Obama yet somewhere less than 2.36% of the dealerships being closed (9/100 of 1% or .09% to be precise) are Obama donors.

Looks even more suspicious.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Not for Chrysler dealers specifically, but people who looked into this found that only 8-12% of those who called themselves car dealers gave to Obama.

Now, would that make you think that more Republican-donating Chrysler dealers would be shut down than Democrat-donating ones, or fewer?

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Then, of those dealerships that were shuttered, I'd expect somewhere between 8-12% of those to be those that gave to Obama and 88-92% of those to be the ones that donated to GOP. In other words, you might expect the numbers to be proportional. That's not what's happening.

Sounds like some people want a quota system.

I had been scratching my head at why some of the successful high-volume Chrysler dealerships in Houston are being shut down while flailing ones are being left open.

After chewing on it for a couple of days, I would say yes, it is fairly likely that certain dealerships were protected from closure because they are Democratic donors.

This is:
1) Standard Chicago politics, and
2) An example of one of the biggest downsides of large-scale government involvement in the economy -- political loyalties sometimes (often?) trump efficiency and productivity.

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Originally Posted by Extra Stout

I had been scratching my head at why some of the successful high-volume Chrysler dealerships in Houston are being shut down while flailing ones are being left open.

After chewing on it for a couple of days, I would say yes, it is fairly likely that certain dealerships were protected from closure because they are Democratic donors.

This is:
1) Standard Chicago politics, and
2) An example of one of the biggest downsides of large-scale government involvement in the economy -- political loyalties sometimes (often?) trump efficiency and productivity.

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So if someone contributed 2300.00 or 4600.00 their dealership was saved? You really believe that?

PRAVDA: 'American decent into Marxism happening with breathtaking speed'...

That's from the experts.

:lmao

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

PRAVDA: 'American decent into Marxism happening with breathtaking speed'...

That's from the experts.

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I know you have a predilection for citing agitprop as gospel, but...Pravda?

BoniVore has joined Wild Goober as forum clown :lol

... supplying us with Pravda, the whole Pravda, and nothing but the Pravda.

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Originally Posted by Darrin

I just assumed they'd close down the corrupt Dealerships.

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My assumption was similar. I saw this some time back when I had my Z28 warranty serviced. the dealers had no problem making extra work for their mechanics, because they made money from GM for the repairs! My thought was maybe, the dealerships suspected of doing unnecessary "make busy" work as "warranty repairs," making Chrysler lose money on a per vehicle basis, were being closed.

Just a thought, no evidence. Just based on a perception of shops I've seen operate.

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Originally Posted by Extra Stout

I had been scratching my head at why some of the successful high-volume Chrysler dealerships in Houston are being shut down while flailing ones are being left open.

After chewing on it for a couple of days, I would say yes, it is fairly likely that certain dealerships were protected from closure because they are Democratic donors.

This is:
1) Standard Chicago politics, and
2) An example of one of the biggest downsides of large-scale government involvement in the economy -- political loyalties sometimes (often?) trump efficiency and productivity.

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I hope that's not what's going on, but if so, we need some massive corruption charges filed.

Would that fall under the RICO Act?

Tonight, I'm going to get down on my knees and pray the GOP makes this an issue.

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Originally Posted by Extra Stout

2) An example of one of the biggest downsides of large-scale government involvement in the economy -- political loyalties sometimes (often?) trump efficiency and productivity.

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Right. Not to mention the fact that some of the automakers themselves should be dead. Naturally everyone focuses on the trivial issue and not the larger one. The assumption is that this country will be able to rebound economically and that these interventions are temporary. Just because the calendar moves forward, that does not mean progress is being made.

A day or two ago, I head a clip of an investor almost crying, that he would only get something like 3 cents on the dollar I think for the GM bonds he bought.

Well, maybe I'm ignorant, but I though that there were always known risks with investing money... What am I missing?

I wonder how many rich democrats own these GM and other auto maker bonds?

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

PRAVDA: 'American decent into Marxism happening with breathtaking speed'...

That's from the experts.

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I did enjoy their look at the chocolate side of Hollywood, and their celebration of underwear.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Tonight, I'm going to get down on my knees and pray the GOP makes this an issue.

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Tonight, I'm going to get down on my knees and pray that one of you liberal apologists will actually be willing to have a logical conversation on the board for once instead of the constant name calling.

But who am I kidding, that has about as much a chance of happening as Obama Motors being successful :lol

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

Tonight, I'm going to get down on my knees and pray that one of you liberal apologists will actually be willing to have a logical conversation on the board for once instead of the constant name calling.

But who am I kidding, that has about as much a chance of happening as Obama Motors being successful :lol

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:rolleyes