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Because its not just the young that matter Darrin. Much of the support for this goes past University students and people who remember and despise US involvement in the past. This is not the type of movement that you think it is. They don't all view the US in a great light and you still somehow do not realize that.
But that's only from the pov from people with quick access to information and proper news channels. From within Iran, I don't think any of these commoners have a complete freedom of access to sort out lie from truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by jman3000
You should give the Iranian people more credit, CBF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
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Originally Posted by jman3000
Why are you and Manny so angry all the time? You can't even have a civil discussion without going off on some Tourette's syndrome laden tantrum.
Dude these people on the streets are not coming home to take five, googling news and sorting out truth from lie, then returning to the demonstrations. While this stuff is going on, the fog of it makes truth and lie hardly distinguishable.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
I guess I'm just thinking that half of that population is under 27 and many of them have been more exposed to freedom through internet and other technologies.
The people who matter in this situation are the ones with the access. That's all that matters. Those are the people that need it and can disseminate it amongst their peers from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
And the ones on the street with emotions running full steam ahead are relying on second hand information, some of which can be false, some of which can be true.Quote:
Originally Posted by jman3000
There are probably a handful of people who are taking leadership roles for the resistance. They get the news, and like I said just a sec ago, disseminate it to others from there. Then it just trickles down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
I wouldn't be 100% surprised if there are CIA agents giving info to contacts to be honest. I'd actually be surprised if that wasn't happening.
Their getting information from comrades they trust their life with. There's brotherhood in this movement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
I typically don't need google to figure out if I should trust the people who just shot my neighbor. The violence today really has a huge effect on things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
Of course there are people from all angles of this situation trying to disiminate their own propaganda, it would be the most logical thing for anyone with an agenda to do. My whole point is, because of stuff like that, the common person doing the actual protesting is emotional and acting on crowd instinct, not sitting back and properly separating false from true news. And I only started saying this in regards to our president's statements. Not blatancies like did or didn't Iranian citizens get shot by militiamen.Quote:
Originally Posted by jman3000
None of that means they view the United States in a good light. This is what you don't understand. The fact that they're protesting their government does not mean they like a country who has fucked over their country many times in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
It's never that simple. It accumulates. Hence why I said it chips away at the credibility of the regime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
For the most part in confrontations like this it's an "us against them" mentality. You're right about they aren't all checking their facebook pages every hour to get information... but a handful of them are. It's that handful that is responsible for getting this stuff out.
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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
I have several Iranian friends and, from my conversations when them over the years, I think the notion of widespread hatred of the US, especially among younger people, is grossly exaggerated. Don't confuse their govt. and clerics with their general population.
That's because most of your iranian friends are probably descended from relatively well off iranian families that liked the status quo under the Shah. Don't confuse a small sliver of a population with a general population.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
A little sooner than I expected, I thought he would wait until tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
All the insightful commentary I've heard from people who actually seem to understand the country points to this being the beginning of the end for the regime. It may be years and alot of blood away but they will fall because of what they are doing. The demonstrators aren't chanting down with Ahmadinejad anymore, their chanting down with the Supreme Leader. That's a first and very stunning.Quote:
Originally Posted by jman3000
credibility of the regime is now moot.
All that matters now is which sides applies and sustains the most force, a simple game.
Any news on Mousavi or Rafsanjani lately?
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi...t=527&nid=&id=Quote:
While Iranians, like many other Muslim populations, have negative opinions of the U.S. government and U.S. foreign policy, they have a mildly positive image of the American people, and believe "common ground" can be found between the two societies. Most Iranians desire closer ties with the U.S., including more trade, investment and tourism.
Its fairly well known that the Iranian public does not view the US - or more specifically our government - in a good way.
Found some more
Quote:
Just 29 percent of Iranians said they have favorable views of the United States in the latest poll, which was conducted last month. In a similar survey in February 2008 — nearly a year before Barack Obama became president — 34 percent had positive opinions about the U.S.
In a further sign of wariness toward the United States, 38 percent in last month's poll said the U.S. is the greatest threat to Iran. Only Israel was ranked higher — 44 percent of Iranians said the Jewish state posed the greatest threat to their country.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090608/...a/us_iran_poll
In the short run but with over half the country not even being born when the revolution happened, I don't see how they can maintain power over the long term.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
This is a complete hypothetical:
If Iran does fall into a civil war for control over the country what happens if Russia steps in and sends troops to help out? Iran is one of their allies atm and a complete regime change would perhaps change that. What do we do then? Is it fair then to not step in? Can we step in?
It's not like we're allies with Iran. At the same time if another country sends military aid which could perhaps turn the tide against the reformers, could we afford to not take advantage of a perhaps singular moment in which Iran could experience regime change?
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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
I think it's more about our govt., but that is probably changing.
It is about our government, but that exactly what Obama is. Our government.
Not directly. My guess is we would take the approach we took against the Soviets in Afghanistan and supply the revolution fighters with arms. It would be much easier to do now since we are essentially their next door neighbors. Standing on the sidelines isn't even a remote possibility in your hypothetical scenario imo. Then again your hypothetical scenario isn't much of a possibility either.Quote:
Originally Posted by jman3000