48MoH: Random Thoughts On Marcus Haislip

(More random thoughts, so I wasn't sure if it belonged in Haislip's thread)

Random Thoughts on Marcus Haislip



Rikiddo, Pounding the Rock sage and friend to this site, has done a nice job breaking down the Marcus Haislip signing. Between him and Graydon, there is little else to say until we actually see Haislip on the court. But still, I’ve scrounged together a few scraps from under the table. Think of this as a lovely buffet of afterthought, asides, and free association.


- Marcus Haislip signed for the LLE. When you factor in the tax, that’s an awfully big guaranteed commitment from the Spurs. They must like him.

- Despite the horrifying rumors of Big Baby Davis, Antonio McDyess is now the best option on the table. My friend Bruno, harbinger of all manner of smart observations, chimes in with this important note: “The cap numbers should be released tomorrow and it will quite important in the quest for McDyess. Pistons team salary against the cap is $55.7M. The latest cap projection I’ve seen was at $58.6M. So Pistons will only be able to offer a contract starting at $2.9M. If they want to offer more, they will have to do some trades to clear a little more cap space. The MLE should be between $5.8M and $5.9M. Spurs will be able to offer twice more than Pistons to McDyess. Even if McDyess has a soft spot for Detroit, twice more money and a legit shot to the title sounds intriguing.” Hooray Spurs.

- One thing I like more about Antonio McDyess than Rasheed Wallace: McDyess is a better pick and roll defender, still being fleet of foot enough to aggressively show up top and recover. This is an area where Wallace has lost a step in recent years. For what it’s worth, Dice is better on the boards too. If the Spurs land McDyess, they will have done well for themselves.
The combination of the Haislip signing and what’s left in free agency has introduced lots of intrigue into what is now an official NBA arms race. (Seriously, next season is shaping up as a 5 team fight to the death between the Lakers, Spurs, Magic, Cavs, and Celtics. Phil Jackson should hit his quota of backhanded insults by November.) Nevertheless, it’s difficult to predict which direction the Spurs will go. But I will say this: I think the team is one quality player short of definite contention.

- In my estimation, the Spurs’ roster is solid, and can only benefit from two additions. The first we’ve discussed ad nauseum–the Spurs need a sturdy veteran pick up to play alongside Duncan. The second revolves around the question of who will fill minutes behind Richard Jefferson? Those 15-18 minutes per game are up for grabs, and if the Spurs can find a dynamic player, preferably one who has his defensive scruples about him, it could be as important as any signing this offseason. Who?

The Spurs have options behind Jefferson, but will be limited by money. If McDyess gets most or all of the MLE than San Antonio will have to trade for such a player or… This is where summer league becomes such an important tool for the Spurs. Malik Hairston showed a lot of promise last season, especially as a defender. If he shows marked improvement in summer league, the Spurs should accommodate him with a roster spot. If not, we’re left to wonder if James Gist or Marcus Haislip can play any minutes at small forward (extremely doubtful, methinks) or if the Spurs can trade for a reserve wing. Travis Outlaw? Dorell Wright? Honestly, there are two dozen names we could rattle off as trade targets or league minimum options. If the Spurs are consistent, they’ll go with someone we don’t discuss. I’ll just leave it alone. But I don’t expect the Spurs to address this need until after they’ve evaluated their summer league invitees.

- Josh Childress is a nice player, and rumored to be on the Spurs’ radar, but I just don’t see how the Spurs could find minutes (with Haislip in the fold) for him short of trading Roger Mason Jr. (and Finley or Bonner) to Atlanta. Who knows if Atlanta would bite, but the net gain probably wouldn’t justify the swap. And of course, that means Childress would log the majority of his minutes at shooting guard. It’s a maneuver that’s too clever by half.

- A player that suddenly intrigues me, one that I had left for dead 5 days ago, is Shawn Marion. Marion could start at power forward, but could find 30 minutes a game between forward spots. He’d provide the Spurs with a capable wing defender, another 4 who could stretch the defense, and the flexibility to play Haislip, Blair and Mahinmi meaningful minutes. Best of all, as the market continues to dry up he might be amenable to a one year MLE. This has the built in advantage of allowing 2010 roster space for Tiago Splitter. The problem here is that it’s almost unimaginable to cast Shawn Marion into a 5th option role. I see as many negatives, perhaps more, as positives, but I’ll throw the thought out there nonetheless.

- Light a candle at night in hopes that Portland develops a sudden interest in Lamar Odom. It’s unlikely, but it would help the Spurs in two ways. First, it might make Travis Outlaw expendable. Second, it hurts Los Angeles. Truthfully, it would help Portland too. But I’ll leave that to the Beyond Bowie and Blazers Edge guys to analyze. Update: Beyond Bowie is keen on Marion; Odom thinks the beach is swell. Rainy weather? Not so much.
Lost in all this is my excitement to see Haislip play. I don’t know much about him. But the Spurs have a good history (see Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto or Roger Mason Jr.) of locating low budget players who make meaningful contributions.

- A SpursTalk regular named Marcus Bryant makes a dynamite observation: “The Spurs are certainly increasing team speed and athleticism and are slowly moving from being built around Duncan to being built around Parker.” Someone get this man a beer.

- Finally, I’d like to see the Spurs clear a roster spot by trading Michael Finley and Matt Bonner in a 2 for 1. Easier said than done, I know. My reasoning here might be different than you assume. The Spurs aggressive offseason might have the unintended consequence of forcing out their 14th and 15th men–their Toros projects. Considering the balance of the championship window, and the inescapable need to rebuild as soon as it closes, players like James Gist and Malik Hairston are more important to the future of the team than Mike Finley and Matt Bonner. Retaining these players is obviously not a high priority, but in a perfect world…

http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2009/...arcus-haislip/

Lot to digest in there. Good stuff. Nice shout out to Bruno and the PimP (does that not sound like a radio show right there :hat).

I do not agree with Marion for the same reason Gooden seems to float around from team to team. The theory sounds nice and the stats back up the logic, but it will not work during the season.

I actually had the same kind of logic on the topic of Marion, but I would soooo have to strain to root for a guy like that on my team. (1yr-deal, please)

It's almost a worse comes to worst scenario, in my eyes.

Maybe Jeff Mcdonald should man up as well and admit where he gets his sources from. :lol

Big Baby was worse!

So the Spurs used the LLE?

Was this posted in the Marcus Haislip thread.

Yeah, wow! LLE seems like a lot. He'll be playing then, not sitting at the end of the bench waiving a towel as I had assumed. This definitely suggests to me that Bonner will be gone by the season's start.

No way Marion comes here for a year at the MLE to be a 5th wheel. He's always been all about his money and his shots, and that would mean he'd be sacrificing both. Leopards can't change their spots.

It's great that 48moh acknowledge that they get a lot of their ideas here. Well done to Bruno and MB, as per usual. :)

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Big Baby was worse!

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Worse or Worst?:lol

I honestly don't know that I wouldn't rather deal with a D-Bag for a year (Marion), he can at least help R.J. out defensively and play some 4, than have to settle for the likes of Baby..

good post

damn haislip got the LLE

i was hoping for a non guarnteed minum to just participate in training camp and compete with gist (i beleive gist was going to spend alot of time in austin anyways)

i hope hairston gets a spot on the roster this kid has real good talent seen him play in austin

i really like mcdyess but i think spurs are looking at marcus camby for plan C if mcdyess dont sign, but wouldnt mind at the same time getting big baby coming off the bench to add some scoring

we need a guy on the cheap i really like matt barnes but many say he dosent like the spurs i dont know how true is that but a defensive minded small foward who can also guard the SG and maybe quick enough to guard a PG would be perfect

if all this fall to place i see the spurs favorites next year even without sheed

I do not see Marion working in SA, but he would be better than the Baby. I would rather go cheaper for a guy like Moon (but not that Haislip got the LLE that would be difficult).

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

No way Marion comes here for a year at the MLE to be a 5th wheel. He's always been all about his money and his shots, and that would mean he'd be sacrificing both. Leopards can't change their spots.

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It's extremely doubtful that he'd come to S.A. (yet, somehow I'm grateful:lol) but unless Portland is willing to shell out the dough for the likes of Marion, the MLE is probably the best he can do.

Given his age and lack of options, If I were him? I'd probably take the MLE from a team that I could thrive in for a year, and hope to cash in in '10 when a lot of teams are looking to spend their money after coming up short for the marquee free-agents.

To clarify, for those who weren't reading along in the Haislip threads, supposedly KSAT reported that Haislip got a two-year deal with the first year starting at $1.9 million. I haven't seen that confirmed anywhere and that doesn't necessarily mean he got the LLE. He could have *gulp* gotten part of the MLE.

He had some pretty good points in there. I think adding a player behind Jefferson not named Finley is more of a luxury than a need. Re-signing Bowen could fill that hole. Or the minutes can be absorbed by more Mason and more Hill. In a perfect world, the Spurs will add yet another good perimeter piece -- but that need pales in comparison to the need of a capable bigman starter.

I disagree about even contemplating Marion. I'd rather give Big Baby a $50 million contract than see this team's chemistry (and interior defense) come crumbling apart by adding Marion to the mix. And as much as it'd be nice to package Finley and Bonner for something, I'd do it only to add a quality piece. Opening a spot for a d-league player wouldn't factor into my equation.

soo haislip got the lle wtf is that?!?!hope he pans out that is a pretty big commitment to a never was

We won't know for sure (at least the 8th) what Haislip's contract is. Will be interesting and I certainly hope he did not get part of the MLE.

Say no to Marion unless it's for the vet minimum.

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Originally Posted by timvp

He had some pretty good points in there. I think adding a player behind Jefferson not named Finley is more of a luxury than a need. Re-signing Bowen could fill that hole. Or the minutes can be absorbed by more Mason and more Hill. In a perfect world, the Spurs will add yet another good perimeter piece -- but that need pales in comparison to the need of a capable bigman starter.

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I think it's a need that wouldn't be so much with Bowen, but definitely a need.

I know Pop said R.J. would be taking Bruce's role but if he gets into foul-trouble, and with some of the wings on each of the upper-echelon teams, you've got to have another guy with some size defensively behind R.J., imo.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I disagree about even contemplating Marion. I'd rather give Big Baby a $50 million contract than see this team's chemistry (and interior defense) come crumbling apart by adding Marion to the mix. And as much as it'd be nice to package Finley and Bonner for something, I'd do it only to add a quality piece. Opening a spot for a d-league player wouldn't factor into my equation.

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I think I've made it pretty clear that I don't want Marion on this team, but if he's on a one year deal where he's got to stay in line for his next contract, I think I'd bite the bullet for a year, rather than invest the type of money you suggest in a guy like Davis who doesn't really fill a need or make you more than marginally better.

I wouldn't like either move, but Marion gives you a little hope that, with maybe a smaller move for a defensive-big, you could compete for this years title.

And as small as that hope would be, I'd have less with Baby.

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Originally Posted by BLACKJACK21

I think it's a need that wouldn't be so much with Bowen, but definitely a need.

I know Pop said R.J. would be taking Bruce's role but if he gets into foul-trouble, and with some of the wings on each of the upper-echelon teams, you've got to have another guy with some size defensively behind R.J., imo.

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Yeah, I agree the Spurs need another defensive wing on the team. RC has mentioned that they'll be looking for that exact type of player.

But to me, that need can be filled with Bowen, signing someone like Keith Bogans or perhaps even going with a summer league player such as Hairston or Anderson. However, I can't compare that need to the starting bigman need at all.

And really, when is the last time the Spurs truly had a backup defender on the wing? That's been a need for like a decade now :lol

If Bowen doesn't come back, Bogans is the player that sticks out to me as a Spurs-type signing.

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Originally Posted by BLACKJACK21

I think I've made it pretty clear that I don't want Marion on this team, but if he's on a one year deal where he's got to stay in line for his next contract, I think I'd bite the bullet for a year, rather than invest the type of money you suggest in a guy like Davis who doesn't really fill a need or make you more than marginally better.

I wouldn't like either move, but Marion gives you a little hope that, with maybe a smaller move for a defensive-big, you could compete for this years title.

And as small as that hope would be, I'd have less with Baby.

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We'll have to disagree here. I'd rather the Spurs sign Big Baby than waste a year of Duncan's championship window with Marion at PF. It would make some sense if Marion could still shoot but with his three-point shot in the toilet, it'd be a really bad fit at just about every level imaginable.

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Originally Posted by BLACKJACK21

- Finally, I’d like to see the Spurs clear a roster spot by trading Michael Finley and Matt Bonner in a 2 for 1. Easier said than done, I know. My reasoning here might be different than you assume. The Spurs aggressive offseason might have the unintended consequence of forcing out their 14th and 15th men–their Toros projects. Considering the balance of the championship window, and the inescapable need to rebuild as soon as it closes, players like James Gist and Malik Hairston are more important to the future of the team than Mike Finley and Matt Bonner. Retaining these players is obviously not a high priority, but in a perfect world…

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I don't see the Spurs clearing out Finley and Bonner unless it's for a player that will help now. Not to just make room for Gist and Hairston to eat up a roster spot and stay in Austin most the season.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Yeah, I agree the Spurs need another defensive wing on the team. RC has mentioned that they'll be looking for that exact type of player.

But to me, that need can be filled with Bowen, signing someone like Keith Bogans or perhaps even going with a summer league player such as Hairston or Anderson. However, I can't compare that need to the starting bigman need at all.

And really, when is the last time the Spurs truly had a backup defender on the wing? That's been a need for like a decade now :lol

If Bowen doesn't come back, Bogans is the player that sticks out to me as a Spurs-type signing.

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I think it's pretty known how I feel about Hairston, so I'm hpoing he's the answer, but the size I just can't get over. Maybe it's because all the weight he's lost that my view of him physically has become skewed, but he looked like he was shorter than Mason.:wow

He's done well when given the opportunity against some wings with good size but part of me questions whether it was his deceptive nature, (athleticism/timing) or something he could do consistently against the better players once they'd seen him a time or two.


Anderson really intrigues me, I just wished he'd already been toiling around overseas or in the D-League for a couple of years. You get the feeling he's going to be exactly the type of player the Spurs would certainly look to acquire, but, unfortunately, he's only begun the process needed to become the next... Well, I was going to say Bowen (blaspheme) but I'll go with Udoka. (A more athletic and useful Udoka:lol)

I completely agree with Bogans being a Spurs signing. In fact, I'd be almost surprised if he wasn't signed. He's not all that athletic, and might just be a fresher not quite as physical Udoka, so he'd be useful, I'm just not sure he's who I'd go with. Although, unless they can get McGuire,(I know, I should be his agent:lol) Sefolosha, or someone similar through trade, the options are pretty limited.

Maybe, Carney? shoots the 3 and has the tools.

Joey Graham? great tools defensively but has completely devolved defensively toiling in that defensive-cesspool. (Again, not great options)

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Originally Posted by timvp

We'll have to disagree here. I'd rather the Spurs sign Big Baby than waste a year of Duncan's championship window with Marion at PF. It would make some sense if Marion could still shoot but with his three-point shot in the toilet, it'd be a really bad fit at just about every level imaginable.

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I have to admit, I could probably get swayed depending on the day.:lol

I'm just not at all enamored of Davis, and frankly?

I think Blair is just as useful as Baby.

Probably, more so.

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Originally Posted by BLACKJACK21

It's extremely doubtful that he'd come to S.A. (yet, somehow I'm grateful:lol) but unless Portland is willing to shell out the dough for the likes of Marion, the MLE is probably the best he can do.

Given his age and lack of options, If I were him? I'd probably take the MLE from a team that I could thrive in for a year, and hope to cash in in '10 when a lot of teams are looking to spend their money after coming up short for the marquee free-agents.

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I think you're right and that's probably what Marion will do, but I very much doubt it will be with the Spurs, as you say.

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Originally Posted by timvp

He had some pretty good points in there. I think adding a player behind Jefferson not named Finley is more of a luxury than a need. Re-signing Bowen could fill that hole. Or the minutes can be absorbed by more Mason and more Hill. In a perfect world, the Spurs will add yet another good perimeter piece -- but that need pales in comparison to the need of a capable bigman starter.

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Hasn't Bowen pretty much said he has no interest in coming back to the Spurs?

The Haislip signing really suggests to me that Bonner is as good as gone - there simply aren't enough roster spots to accomodate them both.

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Originally Posted by BLACKJACK21

I think it's pretty known how I feel about Hairston, so I'm hpoing he's the answer, but the size I just can't get over. Maybe it's because all the weight he's lost that my view of him physically has become skewed, but he looked like he was shorter than Mason.:wow


I completely agree with Bogans being a Spurs signing. In fact, I'd be almost surprised if he wasn't signed. He's not all that athletic, and might just be a fresher not quite as physical Udoka, so he'd be useful, I'm just not sure he's who I'd go with. Although, unless they can get McGuire,(I know, I should be his agent:lol) Sefolosha, or someone similar through trade, the options are pretty limited.

Maybe, Carney? shoots the 3 and has the tools.

Joey Graham? great tools defensively but has completely devolved defensively toiling in that defensive-cesspool. (Again, not great options.

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I also have high hopes for Hairston this year - he seems to have the physical tools, but will he "get it", and will he gain enough confidence on offense to be useful? He seemed pretty fearless last year, so let's hope he makes great strides this season.

I agree about Bogans too - he's is a good perimeter defender who knocks down the 3, a homeless man's Bowen.

Anyone have a clue why the Wolves gave up on Carney? They just gave away their depth on the wing by sending away Miller and Foye, so why would they also give up on a guy they were giving quite a bit of time to late last season? Makes no sense to me, but then again, that's true of most of the Wolves' moves. :lol

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Hasn't Bowen pretty much said he has no interest in coming back to the Spurs?

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Bowen says he'll come back if the Spurs ask him back.

Minnesota doesn't have enough roster spots to make Carney an immediate priority, and they're planning to play Brewer and Ellington ahead of him from what I've read the past few weeks..

We'll see how Malik plays in Summer League..I've become a huge fan of his, and I hope he'll be on the team..he would be the cheapest option, and he doesn't really lack much in comparison to a guy like Carney..

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

We'll see how Malik plays in Summer League..I've become a huge fan of his, and I hope he'll be on the team..he would be the cheapest option, and he doesn't really lack much in comparison to a guy like Carney..

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Ya know, now that I think about it?

Carney isn't all that much taller than Malik, IIRC.

For some reason, ever since his days at Memphis I've heard, and have viewed, Carney as being 6' 6'' to 6' 7'' but I seem to remember him being measured at only about 6' 5'' without shoes. He might have .5'' to 1'' on Hairston and a better 3-point shot but I'd have to agree. I would take Hairston over Carney.

Forget that he actually knows the system, but he's just a flat-out fearless basketball player who brings a rather unique skill set to a team. He's a good athlete, he rebounds, defends, has a good mid-range jumper, brings a good BBIQ, and has a toughness that you just don't find every day.

I've still got some questions to if he'll be able to translate it all and be the type of player the Spurs are looking for behind R.J., but I have no question that Malik can, and will, contibute significantly for some NBA team.

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Originally Posted by BLACKJACK21

Ya know, now that I think about it?

Carney isn't all that much taller than Malik, IIRC.

For some reason, ever since his days at Memphis I've heard, and have viewed, Carney as being 6' 6'' to 6' 7'' but I seem to remember him being measured at only about 6' 5'' without shoes. He might have .5'' to 1'' on Hairston and a better 3-point shot but I'd have to agree. I would take Hairston over Carney.

Forget that he actually knows the system, but he's just a flat-out fearless basketball player who brings a rather unique skill set to a team. He's a good athlete, he rebounds, defends, has a good mid-range jumper, brings a good BBIQ, and has a toughness that you just don't find every day.

I've still got some questions to if he'll be able to translate it all and be the type of player the Spurs are looking for behind R.J., but I have no question that Malik can, and will, contibute significantly for some NBA team.

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I think he was even less, about 6'4.5" without shoes.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Bowen says he'll come back if the Spurs ask him back.

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Oh, okay. Good to hear. It didn't sound like Bruce not to consider coming back. I wonder where I read that?

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Oh, okay. Good to hear. It didn't sound like Bruce not to consider coming back. I wonder where I read that?

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Bowen only said he would not want to come back as a coach.

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Originally Posted by Chieflion

Bowen only said he would not want to come back as a coach.

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That's odd too... why not? Maybe by that he meant he wants to keep playing a year or two before coaching. I think he'd be a great coach. Or maybe he'd rather help people away from the NBA, more of a community role. Whatever he does, I'm sure it will involve mentoring/teaching/supporting people.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

That's odd too... why not? Maybe by that he meant he wants to keep playing a year or two before coaching. I think he'd be a great coach. Or maybe he'd rather help people away from the NBA, more of a community role. Whatever he does, I'm sure it will involve mentoring/teaching/supporting people.

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Coaching would be the start of another long journey. I think he wants to wrap up the NBA then settle down in the community.

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Originally Posted by slick'81

soo haislip got the lle wtf is that?!?!hope he pans out that is a pretty big commitment to a never was

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Both Bowen and Jack were "never was's" when they signed here...

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

That's odd too... why not? Maybe by that he meant he wants to keep playing a year or two before coaching. I think he'd be a great coach. Or maybe he'd rather help people away from the NBA, more of a community role. Whatever he does, I'm sure it will involve mentoring/teaching/supporting people.

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Coaching is a low paying drag. I'm sure Bruce has saved his money, based on their family business, and who wants to be away from small children like his for the better part of 8 months every year? I'm sure he's qualified to coach, it just sound like he doesn't want to.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Both Bowen and Jack were "never was's" when they signed here...

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i wouldn't say 'never was' for bowen. he had estabilished himself as top caliber perimeter defender in Miami (although he didn't really have the corner 3 yet).

the spurs weren't the only ones in demand for his services.

of course, i don't think anybody thought he would be this good defensively (or even offensively).

For purposes of getting a defensive wing, sure would've been nice if the Spurs could've nabbed Ariza. I know. I know. Just being greedy.

As for the references to Marion, I agree with those who've suggeted to stay far, far away. Dude is team cancer and now a declining player, whose scoring has dropped every year for the past 3. In fact, he shot an atrocious 18% from behind the arc last season.

great post blackjack. i joined this forum to see if i could find some decent resources for spurs news and it has been hard to find amidst so much god awful takes and arm chair management but your post is exactly the stuff i enjoy to read. have to say, i absolutely agree with your take on mcdyess and the pick and roll. orlando will still have success against both the cavs and celtics because neither team did anything to improve their defending it. many fans here are lamenting not getting sheed because they think in terms of offense as opposed to defense. but the spurs have been addressing their offensive woes as well. jefferson and a healthty manu will space the floor and mcdyess is a solid mid range jumper so he can keep the teams leery when it comes to sagging on him. but more importantly he can defend better than wallace. add to that the fact that we have definitely gotten more athletic with our bigs and we should see a better rebounding, better perimeter defending and more athletic group of bigs next year. which is exactly what we needed to address. (this is, of course, assuming we add mcdyess to the acquisition of blair and haislip).