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I agree that the Spurs can't win the West or another NBA championship without a healthy Ginobili.
I also agree that the Lakers still have to be considered at least a slight favorite because "a healthy Ginobili" is a pretty uncertain qualifier.
But IF Ginobili IS healthy this year (primarily in the playoffs)... these Spurs are capable of beating the Lakers. San Antonio is unquestionably back in the championship conversation, if healthy.
Farmar had an injury year, broke his foot or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by cd98
I think Shannon Brown IS the solution, he looks to be a bigger, more athletic Fisher with some crunch-time Playoff play. Instrumental in one of the Denver round wins.
Still too small of a sample to be surebut he looked really good.
theMachine had a terrible year, starting out with an injury. He should rebound this year and become a good shooter again...that's my guess.
With 2 strangely underperforming key bench guys last year, my guess is the Lakers bench will be vastly improved over last season.
No doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta
That's more like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allanon
I remember when you used to be a relatively objective poster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allanon
Let's do a little more honest assessment here:
Tony >>>>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
RJ = Artest (unless you think him throwing up 10 ill-advised shots a game is a good thing)
Duncan >> Gasol
McDyess >> Bynum (Just what has Bynum done to make you think he can play at a high level? He can't even rotate defensively, let alone match the contribution of a proven player on both ends like Dice).
Blair/Boner ? Odom (Assuming Odom is healthy, how do you know Blair doesn't come in and average 8 and 10?)
GHill/Mason/JV = Farmar/Brown/Machine (Vaughn? What? Anyway, none of these players are ready for WCF basketball)
Finley = Luke = Doesn't matter. Ever.
Don't get me wrong, long term I'd rather have Bynum, because eventually, MAYBE, his upside maybe give him the ability to be a poor man's Ewing (at best), which would put him in the top 5 on the list of NBA centers.
Right now, Bynum hasn't done a freaking thing to justify his value. He's a slightly less poor-man's Kwame Brown. He's a potential headcase (as evidenced by his youtube vids) and looks absolutely lost on defense.
Not sure if I should thank you or cuss at you for this. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
FineQuote:
Let's do a little more honest assessment here:
Tony >>>>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
Duncan >> Gasol
We haven't seen the best of Ron Artest for years now, people have forgotten how good he can be given the proper coaching. When Ron's on top of his game, he's unstoppable in the post and a lock-down defender, especially in tandem with Kobe. My guess he and Kobe will combine for the best perimeter duo in the NBA.Quote:
RJ = Artest (unless you think him throwing up 10 ill-advised shots a game is a good thing)
I can understand your viewpoint. Bynum hasn't done jack for 4 years except show flashes of dominance. But that's why I'm betting this is his year to put it all together.Quote:
McDyess >> Bynum (Just what has Bynum done to make you think he can play at a high level? He can't even rotate defensively, let alone match the contribution of a proven player on both ends like Dice).
I think Blair's gonna have a good rookie season but c'mon, Odom would destroy both Blair and Boner.Quote:
Blair/Boner ? Odom (Assuming Odom is healthy, how do you know Blair doesn't come in and average 8 and 10?)
AgreedQuote:
GHill/Mason/JV = Farmar/Brown/Machine (Vaughn? What? Anyway, none of these players are ready for WCF basketball)
Finley = Luke = Doesn't matter. Ever.
really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Allanon
Well, I'm obviously biased, but I think the strength of the Laker team last year was obviously Kobe and Gasol. I think Lamar gave them good match up problems. And I think Ariza provided athletic wing defense that Phil has always had and used effectively (see Harper and Pippen).Quote:
Originally Posted by Allanon
I think the Lakers lose a lot defensively with Ariza leaving (equally bad move for him to go to Rockets). Artest is an overrated defender. He has his moments offensively, but he is too undisciplined to know what is or is not a good shot. Hard to see how Phil is any different than Adelman, a coach that Artest loved and had a very good relationship with. I'm just not sold on that move.
As for Farmer, he looked good two years ago. Last year, he looked like he lost all his confidence. I've always that the Machine was less than adequate. He's not the knock down shooter they pretend he is and, though active on defense, ultimately his foot speed is too slow to be an adequate defender against healthy top notch players.
Bynum, while talented, shows that even though he can string a few good games against the Clippers, T'wolves, and Grizzlies has a long way to go to prove he is worth his contract. He's not the worst center, but he is way over paid. At his best, I promise you Yao (when not injured) and Howard are still much better. And I would argue that Howard's game has a lot of flaws that he occassionally makes up for with athleticism.
Lakers need to resign Odom desperately and they need to get better at the point guard position. Houston destroyed them all because their point guard got to the rim consistently. L.A. will have it much tougher with Paul, Parker, and a healthy Williams. The point guard position is the one real weak spot. Hard to address, though, as the Mavs found out.
Duncan's scoring is not down, just his minutes.
+1 Great Post!Quote:
Originally Posted by cd98
I think Odom is the key. If they lose Odom it would force Bynum to step his game up and I just dont think he is ready for that. Odom gives LA sooooo many options and versatility. If they lose Odom, it would be better for Artest and he will have a great year. But the team will struggle. As we all know LA cant afford to lose both Ariza and Odom.
Tony Parker > Derek Fisher
Manu Ginobili < Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan > Pau Gasol
Richard Jefferson > Ron Artest
Antonio McDyess > Andrew Bynum
Obviously Tony is better than Derek. Obviously Kobe is better than Manu. Obviously Timmy is better than Pau. Richard Jefferson and Ron Artest is basically a tossup, imo. I give the edge to RJ because of my Spurs bias and the fact that RJ is a high character guy, not a headcase, and a guy one would consider coachable. I think Bynum will be a fine center next year. I just think right now McDyess possesses more skill and talent than Andrew, which is not far-fetched at all. In a couple years, if Bynum can live up to his hype than obviously he'll be better than a 37 year old McDyess.
Spurs Bench = Lakers Bench
I don't really want to breakdown the backups, but I will say: If you judge Bynum negatively because he hasn't really done anything, than how can you judge Blair positively? Anyways, I think both will do fine next year. But unlike Bynum, Blair basically serves two purposes: good defense and rebounding. Rebounding, which I think Blair will dominate, even as a rookie. Defense is something he'll have to work on to get up to par with the NBA level. For what the Spurs want him to do, DeJuan Blair will do that at a high level. Almost the same thing for Matt Bonner, but not quite. Bonner will be much more effective when he is not forced into a position where he has to start and start at center/PF. So if you think he's gonna suck as much as he did last year, think again. Of course, I can only hope Pop won't turn to him in clutch moments, haha. So when I reach the conclusion of Odom > Bonner + Blair, I reach it in terms of talent. In which case Odom crushes Bonner and Blair. In a similar position as Bonner and Blair is Finley. Finley will hopefully and in good logic from Pop, get limited to around 10-15 mpg. Finley is a clutch player with a good shot, and brings the overrated veteran leadership to help guide the younger guys. Finley will be again, like Blair and Bonner, more effective than he was last year, in a position where he is not forced to start. Let's not forget Roger Mason and George Hill. Both are high quality backups and decent starters, if ever need be.
When you consider it all, I believe the Spurs would be beat the Lakers in the Western Conference Finals, and possibly go on to win the NBA Finals. Hey, it might require some luck to get Manu healthy, but the Spurs are the only challengers, imo, to the Lakers' throne. :flag:
Manu doesn't start, Mason does. Normally teams go to a 8 man rotation during the playoffs which would likely see:
Manu, Hill, Blair Vs. Odom, Farmar, Vujucic
Blair is the wildcard, if he's as good as advertised the edge is to the spurs easily.
As for the starters the likely match-ups would be:
Parker>Fish
Mason<Kobe
Jefferson=Artest
Dice<Gasol
Duncan>Bynum
A player by player comparison doesn't tell the whole story. We'll see how the players gel before declaring the better team. Truth be told, both are very talented, but no more so than the other. IMHO, Spurs upgraded, Lakers (assuming they sign Odom) stay the same with except for losing perimeter defense (Artest can bang guys in the post, but he's not effective guarding guys on the peremeter).
Truth be told, Bowen was the best perimeter defender I've ever seen. Ariza has that type of potential. He was lethal with L.A. I'm glad he's going to disappear in Houston, where he will be less effective as he has no one to create shots for him and he can't put the ball on the floor and score consistently.
This article was written before the McDyess signing :D
when did RJ turn into MJ????
Artest >> RJ
I don't think it's wrong to say both teams are equally matched on paper. Now then you add in reality, add injuries, refs, who has homecourt advantage and I'm thinking Lakers would have the edge. This isn't to say that Spurs won't be the better team if they meet the Lakers in the playoffs...just that odds are better in the Lakers favor.
But being a Spurs fan, I keep faith that we'll be healthy and rockin' come playoff time, which should mean BIG trouble for the Lakers. :D
In any case, miles above last year where the team would've had no chance to beat the Lakers.
Lakers are still better. Jut a tad bit better. On paper.
The one thing that no one is mentioning is that Artest has never been able to guard a healthy Gino. Gino is too quick and crafty for Artest. That means Kobe will still spend time guarding him.
Another thing not mentioned was that Ariza was the primary defender on Parker. It's been said that the best way to guard lightening quick PGs is with fairly quick, long agile defenders, like Ariza. Therefore, Artest is stuck guarding Jefferson while Kobe has to choose between Parker and Gino. That's a matchup that work in favor of the Spurs in a HUGE way.
I'd give the Lakers the edge based on the fact that they ended last season as the best team and this season hasn't started yet. But it's going to be a long season, and the offseason isn't even done yet. Let's save the observations for November at the earliest.
Truthfully I'm more worried about the Celtics and Cavs than the Spurs.
They are not a team that gives the Lakers fits like the Celtics seem to do. Mainly because their defense is a shadow of what it once was.
Hill will have a breakout year.
:kingQuote:
Originally Posted by hater
RJ isn't MJ. Or even close. But who is Ron Artest? What's he done in this league? What teams has he led to a championship? How many scoring titles does he have? How many all star appearances? I'm yet to see him make a team a winner.
I saw him play the Lakers in the playoffs. He had two great games (G1 and G2) and then disappeared. Once Yao went down, he was supposed to step up. He didn't. His teammates did. He's overrated. Especially now on L.A. where every player is overrated as their abilities suddenly swell under the adoring media.