Lakers Still Hold Edge Over Fortified Spurs

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Originally Posted by DrHouse

You must have been smoking some glorious reefer because Ariza never once guarded any of those players in the playoffs. So even if Ariza could, in theory defend them, Phil Jackson would never allow it making it all a moot point.

Plus wouldn't it be a smarter idea for the Lakers to go out and acquire oh I don't know a PG that could actually defend other PG's instead of relying on a SF to do that job?

P.S. they already do have someone who can adequately guard all of those players....his name is Shannon Brown and you will be seeing a lot more of the kid next season.

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How come Shannon Brown couldn't stop Brooks in the playoffs? Perhaps because he really isn't that great a defender, just overrated because he has one good game. We'll see how Shannon Brown does against Paul and Parker this season. Then we'll see if you really think he is as good as you say.

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Originally Posted by DrHouse

Newsflash, NOBODY GUARDS KOBE BRYANT WELL. Including Shane Battier, aka Kobe stopper.

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Bruce did.

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Originally Posted by DrHouse

Would you rather have Ron Artest @ $6 million or RJ @ $14 million?

For what the Lakers need, Artest is seemingly a perfect fit. A bulldog defender to throw at the bruising SF's that give the Lakers fits (Pierce, Melo, Lebron, etc.). Artest may not be as quick as he once was but he is still one of the league's best defenders. Having Kobe and Ron on the perimeter will definitely give the Lakers an intimidating defensive presence they have not had in a long time.

I couldn't care less what RJ brings to the Spurs because in my mind it doesn't matter what other teams are doing. As long as the Lakers retain their core and the youngins keep improving the Lakers will remain the best team in the NBA.

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Wait, is this the same Ron Artest you were saying was a stupid mofo after getting ejected twice on the Rockets series?
Or is it the Ron Artest that you claimed was a chucker on the same series?

Now that he's a Laker, he's a mix of MJ and Rodman? GTFO

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Originally Posted by DrHouse

I see all this talk about the Lakers having nobody to defend Parker.

Apparently nobody has seen Shannon Brown.

And there has never been a time when the Lakers needed someone to guard Parker in order for them to beat the Spurs.

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I saw that Shannon Brown couldn't stop Brooks. This should be particularly disturbing because Brooks took over when the Rockets lost Yao after already playing without McGrady. Brooks single handedly took L.A. to 7 games. And with Yao and McGrady out, the Lakers couldn't find a way to stop him. Incidentally, Artest disappeared after the first two games of that series.

It's nice you have so much faith in Brown, but there really is no basis for assuming he can guard Parker or Paul when he couldn't guard Brooks.

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Originally Posted by DrHouse

I see all this talk about the Lakers having nobody to defend Parker.

Apparently nobody has seen Shannon Brown.

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Is that the guy that got so badly owned by none other than Aaron Brooks, that Phil had to reach out to Farmar?
Yeah, I think we've seen enough of Shannon Brown getting owned by quick PGs.

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Originally Posted by DrHouse

I see all this talk about the Lakers having nobody to defend Parker.

Apparently nobody has seen Shannon Brown.

And there has never been a time when the Lakers needed someone to guard Parker in order for them to beat the Spurs.

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Um, except those times when they didn't beat the Spurs...

There isn't a PG in the league that can stay with Parker. But of course, you must realize this. Your goal is not to make cogent points but rather to stir the pot. I guess you accomplished that. Look at all these crazies that actually defend the Spurs against your lackluster arguments!

I cannot wait for the Spurs to play the Lakers. I think it will be highly entertaining.

But the real story will be the Lakers vs the Celtics. In fairness, the Lakers did not even play the best team last year -- they backed into the title because Garnet was injured.

They might have beaten Boston, but if the prior year was any indication they would have probably lost. I am very interested in watching them play Boston this year. I wish they played 4 times instead of just 2...

I'm tired of hearing about how great phil jackson is. He's overrated, big time

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Originally Posted by iggypop123

id love if both teams were at full strength. i believe a 100% bynum is a bigger deal in the matchup than a 100% manu

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i almost spit out my water!!! what the hell has bynum ever done in the playoffs, or any big game for that matter????

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Originally Posted by cd98

I saw that Shannon Brown couldn't stop Brooks. This should be particularly disturbing because Brooks took over when the Rockets lost Yao after already playing without McGrady. Brooks single handedly took L.A. to 7 games. And with Yao and McGrady out, the Lakers couldn't find a way to stop him. Incidentally, Artest disappeared after the first two games of that series.

It's nice you have so much faith in Brown, but there really is no basis for assuming he can guard Parker or Paul when he couldn't guard Brooks.

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No that's not an accurate statement at all.

Shannon Brown rarely, if ever, was guarding Aaron Brooks. He played the backup PG role in that series. 99% of the time he was guarding the Rocket's backup PG Lowry. The only player who got straight lit up by Brooks was Derek Fisher.

Don't take my word for it though. Go back and watch the playoff game tape of Brown against Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups, etc. He did a fine job, certainly more than adequate for what the Lakers are looking for. As long as he keeps working on his jumpshot Phil Jackson will find minutes for him next season. Remember it's Farmar the Lakers want to trade right now, they just signed Brown to a new contract.

I would like to conclude this post with a statement you all should reflect on. NBA championships are not won on the perimeter. They are won in the paint. The Lakers have never had any one player who could put the clamps on Tony Parker or even Ginobili for that matter and yet they still hold a decisive 4-1 advantage over the Spurs in this decade. Until you can truly compete in the paint, you aren't beating the Lakers.

The Lakeshow is the team to beat. They are the goal the Spurs need to reach for. Not the other way around.

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Originally Posted by DrHouse

No that's not an accurate statement at all.

Shannon Brown rarely, if ever, was guarding Aaron Brooks.

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More like he was chasing after him...

:lmao

GTFO

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Oh shit Dr. House is fucking right, Shannon Brown was mostly inserted into the game when Brooks sat and Lowry went in. And furthermore when Adelman had Lowry/Brooks on the floor together Phil Jackson countered with Farmar/Brown and it was Farmar who guarded Brooks most of the time.

Shit that totally destroys my argument so I'm going to say some random shit and throw out the :lmao emoticon.

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http://www.nba.com/games/20090504/HOULAL/boxscore.html

Playing time:
S. Brown - 12:30
J. Farmar - 02:53

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Originally Posted by DrHouse

I *EPIC FAIL* at trolling again

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:rollin

too be honest lakers do have the edge still, shit they are the champs. but the spurs are definitely a force to reckon with. This isn't the warriors over dallas miracle we are looking for. The spurs have the players and gained in strength and height in each position this year.

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Originally Posted by cd98

I'd disagree about Bynum and Artest. Byum played terrible last year in the playoffs and was eventually benched. He missed defensive rotations and committed silly fouls. He occassionally had a decent post move, but most of his games were duds. Hard to say that he is not turning into Eric Dampier.

As for Artest, I disagree he is better than Jefferson. Artest is overrated. He took a lot of bad shots when in Houston. Shots that killed the offense and were highly contested. On defense, he showed that he couldn't keep up with the quicker players. Yes, he plays physical, but he also does not play smart. Jefferson seems to be a better scorer and better able to gel his game with the Spurs. I see Artest not working out with the Lakers.

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Yeah nevermind he was coming back from a severe MCL tear...

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Originally Posted by Kent_in_Atlanta

I agree that the Spurs can't win the West or another NBA championship without a healthy Ginobili.

I also agree that the Lakers still have to be considered at least a slight favorite because "a healthy Ginobili" is a pretty uncertain qualifier.

But IF Ginobili IS healthy this year (primarily in the playoffs)... these Spurs are capable of beating the Lakers. San Antonio is unquestionably back in the championship conversation, if healthy.

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No, the Lakers must be considered favorites because they are currently better. regardless of health. BUT the Spurs are clearly contenders with a great chance to win it all

Lakers are still better than SA. But it's not because of Shannon Brown, come on now.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

I remember when you used to be a relatively objective poster.

Let's do a little more honest assessment here:

Tony >>>>>>> Fisher
Manu << Kobe
RJ = Artest (unless you think him throwing up 10 ill-advised shots a game is a good thing)
Duncan >> Gasol
McDyess >> Bynum (Just what has Bynum done to make you think he can play at a high level? He can't even rotate defensively, let alone match the contribution of a proven player on both ends like Dice).

Blair/Boner ? Odom (Assuming Odom is healthy, how do you know Blair doesn't come in and average 8 and 10?)
GHill/Mason/JV = Farmar/Brown/Machine (Vaughn? What? Anyway, none of these players are ready for WCF basketball)
Finley = Luke = Doesn't matter. Ever.

Don't get me wrong, long term I'd rather have Bynum, because eventually, MAYBE, his upside maybe give him the ability to be a poor man's Ewing (at best), which would put him in the top 5 on the list of NBA centers.

Right now, Bynum hasn't done a freaking thing to justify his value. He's a slightly less poor-man's Kwame Brown. He's a potential headcase (as evidenced by his youtube vids) and looks absolutely lost on defense.

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How about averaging 28 15 in 60% in the 5 games before he got injured. Thats what makes us think he can, it's all about tremendous upside potential. But dont let silly things like facts stop your argument...

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Originally Posted by cd98

Well, I'm obviously biased, but I think the strength of the Laker team last year was obviously Kobe and Gasol. I think Lamar gave them good match up problems. And I think Ariza provided athletic wing defense that Phil has always had and used effectively (see Harper and Pippen).

I think the Lakers lose a lot defensively with Ariza leaving (equally bad move for him to go to Rockets). Artest is an overrated defender. He has his moments offensively, but he is too undisciplined to know what is or is not a good shot. Hard to see how Phil is any different than Adelman, a coach that Artest loved and had a very good relationship with. I'm just not sold on that move.

As for Farmer, he looked good two years ago. Last year, he looked like he lost all his confidence. I've always that the Machine was less than adequate. He's not the knock down shooter they pretend he is and, though active on defense, ultimately his foot speed is too slow to be an adequate defender against healthy top notch players.

Bynum, while talented, shows that even though he can string a few good games against the Clippers, T'wolves, and Grizzlies has a long way to go to prove he is worth his contract. He's not the worst center, but he is way over paid. At his best, I promise you Yao (when not injured) and Howard are still much better. And I would argue that Howard's game has a lot of flaws that he occassionally makes up for with athleticism.

Lakers need to resign Odom desperately and they need to get better at the point guard position. Houston destroyed them all because their point guard got to the rim consistently. L.A. will have it much tougher with Paul, Parker, and a healthy Williams. The point guard position is the one real weak spot. Hard to address, though, as the Mavs found out.

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That in bold is one of the most retarded things i've ever seen on ST

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Originally Posted by DrHouse

The Lakeshow is the team to beat. They are the goal the Spurs need to reach for. Not the other way around.

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Actually, I think the Celtics are the team to beat. The Lakers match up terribly against the Celtics -- especially on the front line. Garnet and Wallace will give the Laker bigs fits. The most important Laker in the Finals was probably Lamar Odom. Unfortunately for the Lakers, the Celtics have pieces that will make him irrelevant.

And I love what the Spurs did with their bigs. Their title hopes rest solely on the development of their young bigs. If those guys develop into solid contributors then the Spurs will match up well with anyone....

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Originally Posted by Ace9

Tony Parker > Derek Fisher
Manu Ginobili < Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan > Pau Gasol
Richard Jefferson > Ron Artest
Antonio McDyess > Andrew Bynum

Obviously Tony is better than Derek. Obviously Kobe is better than Manu. Obviously Timmy is better than Pau. Richard Jefferson and Ron Artest is basically a tossup, imo. I give the edge to RJ because of my Spurs bias and the fact that RJ is a high character guy, not a headcase, and a guy one would consider coachable. I think Bynum will be a fine center next year. I just think right now McDyess possesses more skill and talent than Andrew, which is not far-fetched at all. In a couple years, if Bynum can live up to his hype than obviously he'll be better than a 37 year old McDyess.

Spurs Bench = Lakers Bench

I don't really want to breakdown the backups, but I will say: If you judge Bynum negatively because he hasn't really done anything, than how can you judge Blair positively? Anyways, I think both will do fine next year. But unlike Bynum, Blair basically serves two purposes: good defense and rebounding. Rebounding, which I think Blair will dominate, even as a rookie. Defense is something he'll have to work on to get up to par with the NBA level. For what the Spurs want him to do, DeJuan Blair will do that at a high level. Almost the same thing for Matt Bonner, but not quite. Bonner will be much more effective when he is not forced into a position where he has to start and start at center/PF. So if you think he's gonna suck as much as he did last year, think again. Of course, I can only hope Pop won't turn to him in clutch moments, haha. So when I reach the conclusion of Odom > Bonner + Blair, I reach it in terms of talent. In which case Odom crushes Bonner and Blair. In a similar position as Bonner and Blair is Finley. Finley will hopefully and in good logic from Pop, get limited to around 10-15 mpg. Finley is a clutch player with a good shot, and brings the overrated veteran leadership to help guide the younger guys. Finley will be again, like Blair and Bonner, more effective than he was last year, in a position where he is not forced to start. Let's not forget Roger Mason and George Hill. Both are high quality backups and decent starters, if ever need be.

When you consider it all, I believe the Spurs would be beat the Lakers in the Western Conference Finals, and possibly go on to win the NBA Finals. Hey, it might require some luck to get Manu healthy, but the Spurs are the only challengers, imo, to the Lakers' throne. :flag:

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Yeah Boston can't challenge or anything...

Oh look the scared little bitch is back to post about how bad our moves are. :rolleyes

Better hope you resign Odom, snapon.

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Originally Posted by carrao45

Yeah nevermind he was coming back from a severe MCL tear...

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In the real world, severe injuries mean that the player will not return to previous levels of performance.

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Originally Posted by carrao45

How about averaging 28 15 in 60% in the 5 games before he got injured. Thats what makes us think he can, it's all about tremendous upside potential. But dont let silly things like facts stop your argument...

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You're basing your entire hope on 5 games? How about how he did for the entire season before the injury?

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Originally Posted by xtremesteven33

You cant tell me the defense is not gonna be better with RJ and Dice in the starting lineup....

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You think RJ is a good defender?
:lmao