Are you fucking stupid? Seriously, you are FUCKING STUPID.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
This is Ron Artest we are talking about, former DPOY, YOU DUMB FUCKING IDIOT.
Good God YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID.
Printable View
Are you fucking stupid? Seriously, you are FUCKING STUPID.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
This is Ron Artest we are talking about, former DPOY, YOU DUMB FUCKING IDIOT.
Good God YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID.
Former DPOY :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by DrHouse
Who cares if he is the former defensive player of the year. He has noticeably slipped and has lost the majority of his lateral quickness. He is no where near his old defensive abilities.
For someone that brings up the Spurs age and "if we are talking 3-4 years ago...", you sure do overlook that Ron was that defender in 2003-2004. You do realize it is 2009, right?
Ben Wallace and Camby each won DPOY after Artest, are they still elite defenders?
You are the worst poster on ST.
First of all Ron Artest is 29.
Quote:
Hypothesis #1. Ron is an excellent on-ball defender.
Seems silly to doubt this point as Ron has been a Defensive Player of the Year. But let’s see if the numbers back this up. Of course defensive stats are notoriously hard to quantify. One stat is opponent’s PER.
We see from 82games.com that Cleveland has the best PER against small forwards at 12.6 and Houston was second at 13.5. So far so good. Looking into the Cavs and Rockets in more detail shows that Lebron’s defensive PER was a good 13.5. Of course the Rockets also have Battier who was at 12.3. However Artest was even better at 12.2. By the PER-against metric, it is safe to say that Ron is an elite on-ball defender. (Bowen was 16.3 and Ariza 23.0). Versus Ariza, a significant upgrade.
Quote:
Hypothesis #2. Ron’s true value will be evident against the top teams in the league.
How does Ron play against Lebron, Melo, and Pierce. The three best players on the best teams in the NBA not called the Lakers?
We see that all three performed below their career averages. Pierce came closest to matching his career numbers. Lebron especially has had problems with Artest (No wonder he recruited Artest so hard). James’ 5.1 turnovers per game really stand out. Impressively, Artest’s team has a win/loss advantage against all three players. 7-3 against Lebron is no joke. These records include results when Artest was with losing teams in Chicago and Sacramento. By the way, Lebron’s record against Bruce Bowen with over 50% shooting and at 29 ppg.
Ok....
Defensive Win Shares
1. Dwight Howard-ORL 7.6
2. LeBron James-CLE 6.3
3. Rajon Rondo-BOS 5.0
4. Yao Ming-HOU 4.9
5. Rashard Lewis-ORL 4.9
6. Tim Duncan-SAS 4.9
7. Paul Pierce-BOS 4.8
8. Chris Paul-NOH 4.7
9. Anderson Varejao-CLE 4.5
10. Gerald Wallace-CHA 4.4
11. Kendrick Perkins-BOS 4.4
12. Hedo Turkoglu-ORL 4.4
13. Emeka Okafor-CHA 4.4
14. Lamar Odom-LAL 4.3
15. Pau Gasol-LAL 4.3
16. Dwyane Wade-MIA 4.3
17. Luis Scola-HOU 4.2
18. Kobe Bryant-LAL 4.2
19. Kevin Garnett-BOS 4.1
20. Ron Artest-HOU
Defensive Rating
1. Dwight Howard-ORL 94.6
2. Kevin Garnett-BOS 97.5
3. LeBron James-CLE 99.1
4. Anderson Varejao-CLE 100.0
5. Kendrick Perkins-BOS 100.2
6. Tim Duncan-SAS 100.2
7. Zydrunas Ilgauskas-CLE 100.5
8. Chris Andersen-DEN 100.6
9. Yao Ming-HOU 100.9
10. Rajon Rondo-BOS 100.9
11. Lamar Odom-LAL 101.7
12. Trevor Ariza-LAL 102.2
13. Gerald Wallace-CHA 102.4
14. Joel Przybilla-POR 102.4
15. Luis Scola-HOU 102.4
16. Samuel Dalembert-PHI 102.6
17. Emeka Okafor-CHA 102.7
18. Rashard Lewis-ORL 102.8
19. Chris Paul-NOH 103.1
20. Rasheed Wallace-DET 103.4
These numbers have him not in the elite category. I watched the games and you can clearly see he lost his lateral quickness. It is not that he is the worst defender ever, but not an elite defender any more. Good low post defender, sub par perimeter defender.
Get the fuck out of here with your cherry picked bullshit stats. You don't even know what you're talking about. Anything that has Hedo Fucking Turkolgu and Rashard Lewis above Artest defensively in anything is complete and utter crap. Face it, you got owned 6 ways from Sunday and found the only stats you could to back up your pathetic argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Ron Artest is an ELITE defender against the best SF's in this league. His stats PROVE that fact as not one of them was able to shoot above their career average. He is an absolute upgrade defensively over Trevor Ariza and that's all that matters.
Spur fan is losing sight of the big picture. Ron Artest doesn't need to be DPOY for the Lakers to be a better team. He just needs to be better than Trevor Ariza. And that he is.
Don't be mad that the stats do not back up your argument. All stats are to be evaluated in context.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHouse
Ron is a different defender than Ariza. Ariza has the quickness to guard guys on the perimeter from spots 1-3. Artest is a very good low post defender and now a very average perimeter defender within his own position or higher.
You are overplaying how good Artest is defensively overall (bringing up DPOY B.S. when I straight up owned you with your shitty logic with Wallace and Camby). He is not a massive upgrade defensively over Ariza, just has a different skill set.
Offensively is where Artest is superior.
You are the worst poster on ST.
Yeah he boinked her this last seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by Interrohater
Opposing PER is a horrible way to rank defense, since it doesn't take anything else into account..Amare Stoudemire had one of the best defensive PERs last season IIRC, which absolutely kills it completely..
Anybody that thinks Artest is still a great defender clearly didn't watch basketball last year..he's pure reputation at this point..he's clearly lost a step defensively, and he's clearly too big at this point to be guarding quick players..sure, his post defense is great, but why would anybody even try to post him up in the first place?..these great players don't need to use their post-up games when they can exploit him on the perimeter..
Artest's DPOY award was also at a time where hand-checking was still allowed, which is exactly the defensive style he enjoys playing..so combine that, with his decline physically, and he will clearly continue to decline significantly..ask Rockets fans..
LOL @ he has Kobe to back him up..that's going to be funny..Kobe will actually have to play defense this year, for the first time since the early 3-peat days..the Artest-Battier combination didn't improve Houston's defense, it made them worse, so I can only imagine what Artest with a much inferior defender in Kobe will do..
Ariza was definitely overrated in general, and he wasn't a great 1 on 1 defender..but he was long and athletic, and he forced matchup problems defensively because of that..Artest is going to be much different..
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHouse
Question: is Ron ARtest still an elite defender? Lets see how he did against the other team's SF's or big SG...and in doing so, let us actually look at some DATA to see if House has done his homework, or, if as is more likely, he is just talking out of his butt.
Dec 3, game against golden state....Maggette scores 23 on 7-14, and sJ score 26 on 11-18. not a good first Defensive game for Ron for us to analyze...I wanted to start mid-season, to allow for him getting used to the team.
Against Atlanta, dec 9, against Joe Johnson, 8-19 for 22 pts, certainly not "stopped," scored well. SF scored even more efficently, Marvin Williams 5-9 or 11 pts.
Denver, Carmello 8-19 for 22 pts, scoring about his average, shoots 44%, pretty close.
RJ: 6-14, 16 pts, shoots 43%, about right.
Pierce: 7-14, 26 points...
I am going to stop here. I am by no means cherry picking games...I merely looked for games with good SF, and excluded NO stats found...except for a Cleveland, because in all fairness no one stops Lebron. (and lebron did quite well against him, btw).
I see no evidence of Ron being an "elite" defender. Players are shooting about their average against him. Including our RJ.
What people are telling you, and you are not listening: Your team did not need more post defense, it needs good perimeter d. Ron is not good at that anymore because he got too fat/big. Face it, you lost your EXCELLENT perimeter D man in Ariza, and he is not replaced. Your weak PG defense got weaker.
The weak link grows.
On what planet was Ariza ever guarding PG's. Phil Jackson NEVER used him in that role. It's pointless to bring that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursfaninla
And I distinctly remember Melo going off for 40+ points in the WCF. I think we sure could have used some Ron Artest post defense there, we damn near lost to DEN because of Ariza's shoddy defense.
Give it up House. You are wrong on the subject. No one is saying Ron Artest is a terrible defender, but he is a shell of his former self on that end of the floor. He is good when players play to his strengths (try and take him down low), but just like Kobe did, the good players will realize all you have to do is catch the ball higher then take him off the dribble.
You are trying to make it seem like he is a better and more versatile defender than Ariza which is clearly a lie. He is a different defender and will do much better down low than Ariza, but overall, it is probably a wash.
Ok this proves you really don't even watch any games. Maybe the Laker playoff games but nothing else. PJ use Azia to guard PGs. In fact he used him to guard Parker. Other Laker fans correct me if I'm wrong but I know he has used him in that role.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHouse
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/...y-Parker-.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by DrHouse
Who Can Guard Tony Parker?
June 29, 2009 4:59 PM
The hand-checking rules have been changed since 2001, but it has taken a few years for the rules to evolve into a different loooking game.
As of 2009, it's officially clear that super-fast guards can do serious damage in NBA defenses. Tony Parker, Chris Paul, Aaron Brooks ... the quick guys who can get into the lane at will have become little one-man wrecking crews at times.
The old way to guard them was to bump them off course with an arm or a body. The new way ... not sure there is a new way yet.
I had been assuming that every team would basically have to have a speedy defender to throw out there in those situations. (Somebody keeps blowing by Steve Blake? Bring in Jerryd Bayless!)
But assumptions are always dangerous, and Kurt from Forum Blue and Gold makes a great point: If nobody can stop those guys consistently without drawing a lot of fouls, why carry a player who specializes in trying?
And what's more, why play a tiny guy, when long ones are generally more effective?
The Lakers have had their best success not with small and quick but with bigger and longer. Look at it this way, under today's rules Tony Parker could not defend Tony Parker, Jameer Nelson could not stop Jameer Nelson. Defending these guards with bigger, longer players allows some room for mistakes with good recovery. They Lakers had some of their best success this season when Trevor Ariza was switched to cover a point guard. Just something to think about.
House got owned again, good job DPG :tu
:lmao
Anthony only had 1 great game..
his shooting outside of game 1..
12-29, 0-6
4-13, 1-7
3-16, 0-3
9-23, 1-4
6-17, 1-3
Ariza sucks man..I can't believe he allowed that 3-16 game, just ridiculous..and that 6-17 game? wtf?! he couldn't hold him to 4-17?!..
Damn, you are dense. Small forwards who shoot from outside will do better against LA with Artest than Ariza. SF who tries to score inside would have had trouble anyway. So, the perimeter defense is more weak. No wonder California is leading the nation in the unemployed.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHouse
:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Spurs_210
He used Ariza on Parker once in a regular season game in the 4th quarter.
In the playoffs, he left Fisher out to die. You don't know what you're talking about kid.
So just so I have this straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbestpro
According to Spur fan, Trevor Ariza is a better defender than Ron Artest with guys like Melo, Pierce, and LBJ.
:lmao
Ariza couldn't even guard Artest for christ sakes. He got used and abused by bigger, bulkier, SF's.
Says the guy who posted "he NEVER used him in that role"Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHouse
I liked the subtle "kid" reference, ignoring the article owning him.
This guy is too easy to own. Its like getting laid by a good looking hooker: you could brag, but what would be the point?
I am sensing a malpractice suit.
:lmao
I watched every Laker regular season and post season game. Don't fucking sit here and tell me that Phil Jackson put Trevor Ariza on PG's consistently throughout the playoffs.
He didn't. Show me video evidence or STFU.
/thread