McDyess vs lakers last season

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Originally Posted by lakaluva

You missing the whole point. We dont need Artest to guard perimeter players. The Lakers are not the heartless Rockets. We are not the talentless Queens. The Lakers are a team with a rich tradition of pride and winning, and Artest understands that. That same tradition that carried over to an unknown Ariza, a forgotten Fisher, an unknown Shannon, a laughed at Pau, a lackluster Odom, will now transfer over to a rejuvenated Artest.

Its a win/win for both parties.

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Pierce, Melo and Lebron are not post players. They are perimeter players. You need someone to guard them so Kobe can relax.

Artest > Ariza, but not for the reasons you are listing.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

:lol

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I like the Laker fan's consistency...

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Don't be mad that the stats do not back up your argument. All stats are to be evaluated in context.

Ron is a different defender than Ariza. Ariza has the quickness to guard guys on the perimeter from spots 1-3. Artest is a very good low post defender and now a very average perimeter defender within his own position or higher.

You are overplaying how good Artest is defensively overall (bringing up DPOY B.S. when I straight up owned you with your shitty logic with Wallace and Camby). He is not a massive upgrade defensively over Ariza, just has a different skill set.

Offensively is where Artest is superior.

You are the worst poster on ST.

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Originally Posted by lakaluva

Keep talking out ya ass, son.

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LMAO. Thank you for proving my point by posting that article. The part you have underlined: They are not raving about how Artest is a defensive upgrade over Ariza. It says "another long armed defender to fill the role, AND A WHOLE LOT MORE PROVEN OFFENSIVE...'

That is what I said. It is a wash defensively, but the upgrade will take place on the offensive end. Are you this dense?

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Originally Posted by lakaluva

So, after all of your hating, debating, and disagreeing, you are admitting that we upgraded, overall....:lmao

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Are you retarded? I am asking seriously because I will feel bad for some of the things I have said to you.

Where have I ever said Artest was not an upgrade over Ariza overall?

This entire thing was about the fact Laker "fans" are saying Artest is an elite defender and much better than Ariza on that end.

That is all.

There is no hating, disagreeing or debating on any other subject or at all. Read back on everything. I am not hating, simply stating common knowledge.

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Originally Posted by lakaluva

Now, back to Artest being able to guard perimeter players. You would think Spurs fans would be very familiar with his perimeter skills. He out-played Manu in 06, and after carefully watching some video footage in that series, it seems Artest has not lost a step. In fact, hes never been a quick player to begin with, hes very good at positioning himself, and very strong... much like Posey, but better.

In six games, Manu's numbers were...
10/5
32/9/9
8/4
3/2
27/4
10/5

Artest went...
16/2
DNP
22/12
14/4
24/4
11/3

Now, this was against a healthy Manu... no injuries! Manu at that time was one of the best perimeter players in the league, and look at Manu's best game of 32/9/9. The only reason he put up those numbers were because Artest was suspended... (another gift by Stern to the Spurs I might add.) Upon the return of Artest, Manu continued to be shut down by Artest.

If Artest is no longer the defensive monster he use to be, then we can definitely agree that Manu and Duncan are no longer the Championship titans they use to be. You cant have it both ways Spur fan.

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Artest may not be as quick as Ariza but definitely stronger. In my book I say Artest is still one of the top defenders and if I really want to sit here and look for any bad in the Lakers picking him up its him knowing his role. He is alittle crazy and really thinks his game is on Kobe's level. I'm sure tho PJ may be able to control that tho. However I wouldn't say he shut down Manu cause you don't really shut guys like him down but maybe slowed him down alittle. Just like Kobe when they're on they're on.

It's not a wash defensively. It's an improvement in the areas we are lacking.

We don't need someone to defend SG's and PG's, we have Kobe and Brown for that. We need someone to guard the bulky SF's of the league.

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Originally Posted by DrHouse

It's not a wash defensively. It's an improvement in the areas we are lacking.

We don't need someone to defend SG's and PG's, we have Kobe and Brown for that. We need someone to guard the bulky SF's of the league.

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Yes, you keep saying that. Kobe was able to coast defensively, with the exception of certain parts of the game where he would switch onto someone for a little bit.

With Artest, now Kobe has to guard the excellent players in the back court (Fish and Kobe will have to guard TP and Manu for example...).

It is opinion that he will fill some "void" where the Lakers were lacking. Like I said, it is a wash defensively because they are both good at opposite things.

You are making it seem like just because Kobe was a SG and Melo/Pierce/Bron are SF's that Artest will do ok. He got absolutely torched by Kobe once Kobe figured out that he does not have to go down low and be stubborn.

All that matters are playoff teams and elite offensive players. Melo/Pierce/Bron are SF's but present the same problems as Kobe did for Artest because they are perimeter players that can go inside (even though Lebron is not as good in the post).

Just to keep things on track: McDyess :lol

Artest will be able to do a much better job at keeping Melo/Pierce/Bron from beasting inside and getting offensive rebounds for sure, but they will have the same strategy that Kobe did against him. I do not care what LL says, those 3 guys are very close to Kobe's offensive game.

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Originally Posted by lakaluva

Just curious. Since Im retarded and all, and cant seem to comprehend much. Who do you think is an elite defender at the three position, and can guard those players that you say would murder Artest? Give me four names, thats all.

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Lebron is pretty much the best defensive SF when he focuses. Everyone else falls in the tier below. That is why Melo/Pierce/Lebron/Kobe are so great offensively. No one can really shut them down. You are asking for a list that does not exist.

Certainly Artest cannot.

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Originally Posted by lakaluva

So in other words, what you are saying is, outside of Lebron, Artest is next in line as best defensive SF? And are you saying Melo/Pierce/Lebron/Kobe are so great offensively because no one can shut them down, or because there are no good defensive players?

Dont get upset , sweetie, Im just trying to untangle this mess you have here.

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i think you guys are approaching this the wrong way. Artest being there will result in fall away threes and fadeaway long twos, hitting at a 34% clip. Taking away shots from a ultra efficient Gasol, and Ariza (last year, shut mouth, plays D, and hit 3s at 50% clip) . Have fun with two chuckers on the team.

Now the touches are going to be (Kobe), (Artest), Gasol, (Fisher), Odom, (Bynum). Thers only so much ball.

Compare to last year, (Kobe), Gasol, (fisher), odom, ariza, (bynum). (paranthesis refers to ppl who like to shoot)

But on the plus side, hes going to be physical and bodying up SFs, unfortunately only time will tell if he is discplined enough for the +s to outweigh the -s.

oh and best of luck with artest in the triangle, he only knows how to play one on one.

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Originally Posted by lennyalderette

:lol dude us men here in texas where black and white, while your la team has wnba colors purple and gold? first of all your black momba lol is scared of ginobili he said it himself in the documentary, he has also stated that ginobili is his fav player to watch , and ive never heard manu say the same whos owning who here? you punk bitches from la should kept the 9o's riotes going, it would of really helped clean the world.

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No Kobe said Ginobili was a warrior, great player etc.

He never said he was afraid of him. who could be afraid of someone on the bench in a suit?

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Originally Posted by lakaluva

2008-2009 Artest matchups in the regular season.

Pierce vs. Artest
19/7....... 16/5

James vs. Artest
24/5........15/4

Melo vs. Artest
15/4......20/5

Now, DPG21920 may look at those numbers and say Artest was destroyed, but my retarded ass translates those numbers much different than his smart ass.

Pierce maintained his season averages against Artest. James was below his season averages in every category against Artest, and Melo must have been high when he and Artest played against each other, because not only did Artest hold him below his averages, Artest himself seemed to excel against Melo.

However you look at it, neither of those guys went off against Artest like DPG smart ass was saying. Im just saying...

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Did Battier play at all in those games?

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Originally Posted by lakaluva

So in other words, what you are saying is, outside of Lebron, Artest is next in line as best defensive SF? And are you saying Melo/Pierce/Lebron/Kobe are so great offensively because no one can shut them down, or because there are no good defensive players?

Dont get upset , sweetie, Im just trying to untangle this mess you have here.

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No, Artest is not next in line. Where did I say that? You asked for the elite SF defenders, guys who can shut down Kobe/Pierce/Melo...Only Lebron has that ability and even then it is tough because they are all great offensive players that cannot really be stopped unless you swarm them with multiple players and keep the ball out of their hands.

I am saying that the players mentioned cannot be stopped, even when you have elite defenders. When Artest/Bruce/Kobe...were still elite defenders, guys like Kobe/Wade/Bron/Melo still had very good numbers. They might have had to work harder or had some bad nights, but overall the offense wins.

Artest is still a good defensive player, just not better than Ariza. He is different for all of the reasons I outlined.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

No, Artest is not next in line. Where did I say that? You asked for the elite SF defenders, guys who can shut down Kobe/Pierce/Melo...Only Lebron has that ability and even then it is tough because they are all great offensive players that cannot really be stopped unless you swarm them with multiple players and keep the ball out of their hands.

I am saying that the players mentioned cannot be stopped, even when you have elite defenders. When Artest/Bruce/Kobe...were still elite defenders, guys like Kobe/Wade/Bron/Melo still had very good numbers. They might have had to work harder or had some bad nights, but overall the offense wins.

Artest is still a good defensive player, just not better than Ariza. He is different for all of the reasons I outlined.

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You seem to have a knack for completely ignoring factual evidence that completely disputes your arguments.

You say Ron Artest is not an elite defender anymore and yet he held the top 3 SF's in the game to BELOW THEIR CAREER AVERAGES.

You're not going to stop the best players in the game, but if you can keep them at or slightly below their averages you are most certainly doing your job defensively.

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Originally Posted by DrHouse

You seem to have a knack for completely ignoring factual evidence that completely disputes your arguments.

You say Ron Artest is not an elite defender anymore and yet he held the top 3 SF's in the game to BELOW THEIR CAREER AVERAGES.

You're not going to stop the best players in the game, but if you can keep them at or slightly below their averages you are most certainly doing your job defensively.

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Did Battier play this year? Because having two solid SF defenders certainly helps against the aforementioned guys.

I did not say Artest is a poor defender, I said he has lost a step on the perimeter and is not elite. I also said he is no better than Ariza overall (take into consideration guarding multiple positions, perimeter defense, post defense, team/help defense, blocks, steals).

Artest has a different defensive skill set than Ariza. IMO it is a wash defensively overall all things considered.

So..Mcdyess last season?

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Originally Posted by lakaluva

Im sure he played in most, if not all, but thats not the point. When Battier and Artest are on the floor, Battier guards the shooting guards. When TMAC was on the floor, he guarded the shooting guards. The guys you mentioned that would destroy Artest play the 3 position.

Admit you were wrong, and lets end this silly discussion. Artest is one of the top defenders in the league... still. Which is why you refused to give a list. He is number three behind Battier, and James... in that order. I gave stats where he shut down Manu while Manu was in his prime, and I gave you stats of him keeping Melo, and James below their averages just this past season, and keeping Pierce from going off.

You have thoroughly loss this argument, and we are going to thoroughly whoop that ass if the Spurs make it past the Mavs.

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You gave stats from 2006? I can post Duncan stats from 06, are those representative of Duncan today? No.

You list Battier as a better defender as Ron, who also is a SF and played on the same team, then list the numbers as if Artest did all of the damage when it is clearly not true.

Everyone knows Artest has lost a step. You are acting like he is a significant upgrade over Ariza defensively. He is a wash all things considered. He is still a solid defender, but you are using the word "elite" to liberally.

Just because he "might" be the 3rd best SF defender, does not mean he is elite.