E-N: Three Is Not Enough For NBA’s Best

Three is not enough for NBA’s best
By Douglas Pils - Express-News

NBA teams used to think having three stars was the key to winning championships. Look at the last three winners, the Lakers, Celtics and Spurs all had a “Big Three.”

Now, the rich are getting greedy. Aren’t we in a recession?

The Spurs amped things up first, adding Richard Jefferson to their trio. They tried to make it a quintet, but the Celtics made a quartet when Rasheed Wallace chose Boston over San Antonio and others.

Not to be outdone, the Mavericks swung a complex deal Thursday to add Shawn Marion, giving the 2006 finalists a star-studded lineup.

And if the Lakers can find a way to keep Lamar Odom, all of the above may have trouble dealing with the defending champions, who now boast tough forward Ron Artest.

Express-News staff writer Douglas Pils examines the deal-making trendsetters:

Spurs

Jefferson brings career averages of 17.7 points, 5.3 rebounds and 3.0 assists to join Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker. Jefferson will take scoring pressure off all three, and he’s younger than Wallace, Marion and Artest. Combined with rookie forward DeJuan Blair, the Spurs have gotten a lot younger.

Celtics

Wallace holds career averages of 15 points and 6.9 rebounds and makes a 3-pointer a game, giving Boston a twin-tower effect with Kevin Garnett. And if Garnett’s injury woes continue, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen have more experience to lean on with Wallace there.

Mavericks

Marion’s averages of 17.8 points, 9.9 rebounds, two assists and nearly two steals combined with All-Star forward Dirk Nowitzki will make Dallas tough on the inside. Josh Howard won’t have to score as much, and Marion is reunited with Jason Kidd, who spent two years with him in Phoenix.

seems there is no room for roleplayers. Maybe it is power creep but i remember when you only needed two superstars to win

kobe-shaq
tim-david

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clubalien

seems there is no room for roleplayers. Maybe it is power creep but i remember when you only needed two superstars to win

kobe-shaq
tim-david

---

Other than 1999, and even that is debatable, Robinson was not a superstar as far his game was concerned. Only for what he had accomplished.

At this point in their careers, guys like Sheed and Marion ARE role-players. They are being referred to as "stars" based on the prime of their careers. This is a case of "brand recognition", not actual understanding of what said players are currently capable of.

Nebulous article.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

At this point in their careers, guys like Sheed and Marion ARE role-players. They are being referred to as "stars" based on the prime of their careers. This is a case of "brand recognition", not actual understanding of what said players are currently capable of.

Nebulous article.

---

Yep: good points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

At this point in their careers, guys like Sheed and Marion ARE role-players. They are being referred to as "stars" based on the prime of their careers. This is a case of "brand recognition", not actual understanding of what said players are currently capable of.

Nebulous article.

---

Exactly. If the Celtics have 4 stars with Wallace, then the Spurs have 5 stars with McDyess. Obviously neither is a star, nor have they been since about 2003.

Same with Marion like you say. People keep talking about him like he will be the player he was in the Phoenix system. You saw what happened to him when he went out of the gimmick system and into a half court game where he was asked to be an out and out 3. Hes pretty much a 13-8 player these days - which makes him a solid starter, but no where near a star.

Same with Artest, hes never been efficient on offense so his impact was dependant on his Defense, but thats slipped considerably in the last 3 years.

Both Marion and Artest are solid starters/role players, and neither has the all around game that Jefferson does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mystargtr34

Exactly. If the Celtics have 4 stars with Wallace, then the Spurs have 5 stars with McDyess. Obviously neither is a star, nor have they been since about 2003.

Same with Marion like you say. People keep talking about him like he will be the player he was in the Phoenix system. You saw what happened to him when he went out of the gimmick system and into a half court game where he was asked to be an out and out 3. Hes pretty much a 13-8 player these days - which makes him a solid starter, but no where near a star.

Same with Artest, hes never been efficient on offense so his impact was dependant on his Defense, but thats slipped considerably in the last 3 years.

Both Marion and Artest are solid starters/role players, and neither has the all around game that Jefferson does.

---

Agreed.

There's no way the Spurs are still older than the Mavs is there?


The Mavs will have an entire starting lineup over 30...

Kidd: will be 37 in March.
Terry: will be 32 in Sep.
Dirk: just turned 31.
Dampier: 33 and will turn 34 in Jan.
Marion: will be 32 in May.

Even Howard turns 30 in April.

Mavs gotta be the oldest team in the NBA this year.


Spurs got Manu, Duncan, Finley and Dice. I think Bonner might be turning 30 this year, but everyone else is under 30 right?

Spurs- Tim, Tony, Manu, Jefferson...Dice

Lakers- Kobe, Gasol, Bynum?, Odom?

Celtics- Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Rondo?...Sheed

Cavs- LeBron, Mo, Shaq, Z? :lol

Magic- Nelson, VC, Lewis, D-Howard

Mavs- Dirk, Terry, Howard, Marion..Kidd I guess as well...

Alot of teams are STACKED now...gonna be a damn good season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crc21209

Spurs- Tim, Tony, Manu, Jefferson...Dice

Lakers- Kobe, Gasol, Bynum?, Odom?

Celtics- Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Rondo?...Sheed

Cavs- LeBron, Mo, Shaq, Z? :lol

Magic- Nelson, VC, Lewis, D-Howard

Mavs- Dirk, Terry, Howard, Marion..Kidd I guess as well...

Alot of teams are STACKED now...gonna be a damn good season.

---

:toast

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by poeticism707

:toast

---

Are you trying a forum-run, or are you just trying to annoy people with all these meaningless, 1 emoticon posts?

As far as I know, no-one has ever achieved a run in the Spurs forum, and they never will (it's too busy), although I think it's been done in the Club.

rofl
marion is so overrated

too bad it looks like marion kryptonite won't be coming back :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Are you trying a forum-run, or are you just trying to annoy people with all these meaningless, 1 emoticon posts?

---

:nope

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by poeticism707

:nope

---

Seriously

fucking

annoying.

So you're just inflating your post count with nothing posts then. Check.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Seriously

fucking

annoying.

---

Surely you recognize the Mutombo finger wag when you see it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by poeticism707

Surely you recognize the Mutombo finger wave when you see it.

---

Oh, so now you're suggesting I should "get out of your house"? :lmao

What I'm suggesting is that when about 2/3s of the most recent posts on the first page of the forum are you, and every one of those posts is either :king or :downspin: or :toast or occasioanlly :hat , or one word, maybe you should consider the merits of quality over quantity when it comes to posting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Oh, so now you're suggesting I should "get out of your house"? :lmao

---

:lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by poeticism707

Surely you recognize the Mutombo finger wave when you see it.

---

Finger wag.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J.T.

Finger wag.

---

Thanks for catching that!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Oh, so now you're suggesting I should "get out of your house"? :lmao

What I'm suggesting is that when about 2/3s of the most recent posts on the first page of the forum are you, and every one of those posts is either :king or :downspin: or :toast or occasioanlly :hat , or one word, maybe you should consider the merits of quality over quantity when it comes to posting.

---

Friend: how have I wronged you? You communicate the way you want to post, I do the same. Did I criticize your style of post for any reason?

As for the "finger wag," I was only playing on a basketball similarity with that particular emoticon.

Clearly this is not my house. I wouldn't matter if I'd posted here for 20 years, I would lay no claim to it.

So please show more courtesy to others posters in the future. I value you your posts as valuable insofar as basketball is concerned, as I do everyone else's. I will not denigrate how you or anyone else posts. How you choose to communicate on a internet message board is your business, not mine.

Lastly, I don't argue on these boards, or even in person. It is easy to do so. I don't do it, and I won't do it. My masculinity and self worth are not at stake. I will debate the merits of basketball, but that's it. I will not involve my myself in the mudslinging of men. If someone wants to do that, again, that is their business. Not mine.

Be blessed, and if you have anything further to say on the matter, please feel free to message me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by poeticism707

Friend: how have I wronged you? You communicate the way you want to post, I do the same. Did I criticize your style of post for any reason?

As for the "finger wag," I was only playing on a basketball similarity with that particular emoticon.

Clearly this is not my house. I wouldn't matter if I'd posted here for 20 years, I would lay no claim to it.

So please show more courtesy to others posters in the future. I value you your posts as valuable insofar as basketball is concerned, as I do everyone else's. I will not denigrate how you or anyone else posts. How you choose to communicate on a internet message board is your business, not mine.

Lastly, I don't argue on these boards, or even in person. It is easy to do so. I don't do it, and I won't do it. My masculinity and self worth is not a stake. I will debate the merits of basketball, but that's it. I will not involve my myself in the mudslinging of men. If someone wants to do that, again, that is their business. Not mine.

Be blessed, and if you have anything further to say on the matter, please feel free to message me.

---

No, I'll talk to you here.

You haven't "wronged" me, you are wronging the forum in general IMHO. I'm simply pointing out that covering the forum with posts which consist of you quoting someone and following that with a meaningless emoticon is annoying and, in terms of "communication", usually not particularly communicative. If you did it occasionally I wouldn't have mentioned it, but you've been filling the bloody forum with it. It is asinine.

When I look down the forum and see that most of the responses to threads are you (and I know that most of those posts are a meaningless emoticon), how am I to decide whether I want to read an updated thread or not? I have no idea who the last person to actually post something is because you've covered it up with one of your emoticon posts. Think about what you're doing. You're basically spamming the forum with garbage.

I'm sure you are a nice guy, and when you actually write something sometimes it's worth reading, but please, less of the spam. It makes me dislike you.

If I'm out of line, I'm sure I'll get a roasting from others.

PS Just so people don't think I'm exaggerating, of the 25 active threads currently on my screen, 13 of them were most recently posted in by the poet, and most of those posts was an emoticon. Dude, if you are a poet, USE YOUR WORDS! :lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

No, I'll talk to you here.

You haven't "wronged" me, I'm simply pointing out that covering the forum with posts which consist of you quoting someone and following that with a meaningless emoticon is annoying and, in terms of "communication", usually not particularly communicative. If you did it occasionally I wouldn't have mentioned it, but you've been filling the bloody forum with it. It is asinine.

When I look down the forum and see that most of the responses to threads are you (and I know that most of those posts are a meaningless emoticon), how am I to decide whether I want to read an updated thread or not? I have no idea who the last person to actually post something is because you've covered it up with one of your emoticon posts. Think about what you're doing. You're basically spamming the forum with garbage.

I'm sure you are a nice guy, and when you actually write something sometimes it's worth reading, but please, less of the spam. It makes me dislike you.

If I'm out of line, I'm sure I'll get a roasting from others.

PS Just so people don't think I'm exaggerating, of the 25 active threads currently on my screen, 13 of them were most recently posted in by the poet, and most of those posts was an emoticon. Dude, if you are a poet, USE YOUR WORDS! :lol

---

Friend: you are drawing a distinction, a line, where there is none.

Posters here post sexually provocative imagery, many posts are riddled with sexual innuendos and language, such that I've had to turn off the signature pictures and and any other non-avatar images. That's fine. This is not my site. I have to make the necessary adjustments if I am to enjoy the basketball related content of this site.

Yet, you are criticizing me for using emoticons??? You must see the irony. I have made no pretense of instructing others on how to post on this site. So, why should anyone make a pretense of instructing me in this matter?

I am not being rude, or in any way disregarding your critiques, only saying for what is allowed on this site, this is beyond minor.

There is a solution, however. You may at your leisure, of course, add me to your ignore list. I will not add you to my ignore list, because as I said, I appreciate your basketball insight. Again, that is not how I'd wish it, but if it makes enhances your Spurs Talk experience, then perhaps that is a course you may decide to take.

If not, I look forward to discussing more Spurs and basketball related topics.

By the way, the USE YOUR WORDS was hilarious!:lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by poeticism707

Friend: you are drawing a distinction, a line, where there is none.

Posters here post sexually provocative imagery, many posts are riddled with sexual innuendos and language, such that I've had to turn off the signature pictures and and any other non-avatar images. That's fine. This is not my site. I have to make the necessary adjustments if I am to enjoy the basketball related content of this site.

Yet, you are criticizing me for using emoticons??? You must see the irony. I have made no pretense of instructing others on how to post on this site. So, why should anyone make a pretense of instructing me in this matter?

I am not being rude, or in any way disregarding your critiques, only saying for what is allowed on this site, this is beyond minor.

There is a solution, however. You may at your leisure, of course, add me to your ignore list. I will not add you to my ignore list, because as I said, I appreciate your basketball insight. Again, that is not how I'd wish it, but if it makes enhances your Spurs Talk experience, then perhaps that is a course you may decide to take.

If not, I look forward to discussing more Spurs and basketball related topics.

By the way, the USE YOUR WORDS was hilarious!:lol

---

No, I can't just put you on my ignore list to solve the problem because your spam is changing the way I use the forum. Read my last post again, more carefully.

I am not objecting to the use of an emoticon to reply to another's post - everyone does that occasioanlly. What I'm objecting to is the rate at which you're doing it, which is making the forum, and many individual threads, difficult to read.

Obviously you're not understanding my point, so okay, keep spamming the forum with meaningless emoticon posts. I'm curious to see how long it will take for others to get annoyed enough to say something. Trust me, it will happen.

PS Also, if you want to quote multiple people in one post, try the "M-quote" function. It's easier for you to do, and easier for others to read.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

No, I can't just put you on my ignore list to solve the problem because your spam is changing the way I use the forum. Read my last post again, more carefully.

I am not objecting to the use of an emoticon to reply to another's post - everyone does that occasioanlly. What I'm objecting to is the rate at which you're doing it, which is making the forum, and many individual threads, difficult to read.

Obviously you're not understanding my point, so okay, keep spamming the forum with meaningless emoticon posts. I'm curious to see how long it will take for others to get annoyed enough to say something. Trust me, it will happen.

PS Also, if you want to quote multiple people in one post, try the "M-quote" function. It's easier for you to do, and easier for others to read.

---

Fair enough friend. I will post as I have been. This will be my last post on the subject, so good day to you. If you are so inclined, perhaps we will engage in further basketball discussion.

Farewell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by poeticism707

Fair enough friend. I will post as I have been. This will be my last post on the subject, so good day to you. If you are so inclined, perhaps we will engage in further basketball discussion.

Farewell.

---

:lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by poeticism707

Other than 1999, and even that is debatable, Robinson was not a superstar as far his game was concerned. Only for what he had accomplished.

---

Robinson was not a superstar? Good god some ppl around here are fucking retarded...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

No, I'll talk to you here.

You haven't "wronged" me, you are wronging the forum in general IMHO. I'm simply pointing out that covering the forum with posts which consist of you quoting someone and following that with a meaningless emoticon is annoying and, in terms of "communication", usually not particularly communicative. If you did it occasionally I wouldn't have mentioned it, but you've been filling the bloody forum with it. It is asinine.

When I look down the forum and see that most of the responses to threads are you (and I know that most of those posts are a meaningless emoticon), how am I to decide whether I want to read an updated thread or not? I have no idea who the last person to actually post something is because you've covered it up with one of your emoticon posts. Think about what you're doing. You're basically spamming the forum with garbage.

I'm sure you are a nice guy, and when you actually write something sometimes it's worth reading, but please, less of the spam. It makes me dislike you.

If I'm out of line, I'm sure I'll get a roasting from others.

PS Just so people don't think I'm exaggerating, of the 25 active threads currently on my screen, 13 of them were most recently posted in by the poet, and most of those posts was an emoticon. Dude, if you are a poet, USE YOUR WORDS! :lol

---

If there was an emoticon for plus infinity I would be using it right now.

And seriously, just in case you're trying to artificially inflate your post count because you think people will respect your takes more if you're trotting around 2K+ posts...that don't happen on this forum. If your takes suck, they will always suck no matter how many posts you have (witness Ducks).

Unless you're Marcus Bryant of course.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by poeticism707

Fair enough friend. I will post as I have been. This will be my last post on the subject, so good day to you. If you are so inclined, perhaps we will engage in further basketball discussion.

Farewell.

---

Just to perfectly blunt. I completely concur with Ruff. Your posting style is bullshit. Or in your language: :wow:repost::bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:whine:toast: toast:toast:sleep:sleep:downspin::downspin::downsp in::downspin::wakeup:wakeup:lmao:lmao:bking:rollin

:wgaf:

And one of these for the road: :guin

:wakeup

:violin

Wow, pretty slow around here! Valid points made for both sides I suppose. The Poet posts are not a problem for me, he's just saying he agrees. Kind of lame to quote a really long post though and just add that. I try to quote just a portion.

There's always someone that is going to have a problem with what or how you post at some point. Not really worth worrying about. To suggest someone is inflating their post count, silly to cares much about that.

As far as some of the pictures and graphics, some of those are nice to look at, and some are a nuisance, so I guess I am 50-50 there. My Internet is rippin' fast, so I imagine those would be irritating on a slower connection, but apparently you can just turn those that stuff off. Nice feature. Think there is an ignore one too.

i don't hate the addition from the Mavs perspective, but....

Marion + Dirk = "tough on the inside" ????????????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clubalien

seems there is no room for roleplayers. Maybe it is power creep but i remember when you only needed two superstars to win

kobe-shaq
tim-david

---

magic-kareem-worthy

parish-bird-mchale.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by poeticism707

Other than 1999, and even that is debatable, Robinson was not a superstar as far his game was concerned. Only for what he had accomplished.

---

Respectfully disagree. Robinson was a superstar from 1989 to 1998. Hell, he was named one of If you are in the top 50 all time for the NBA, you are a superstar by default.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elbamba

Respectfully disagree. Robinson was a superstar from 1989 to 1998.

---

That was sort of the point there. Robinson, particularly in 03, was not playing as a Superstar by the time he won championships. He was a role player with a superstar past.

That's not to say Robinson isn't a superstar, just that he wasn't playing on that level

:rollin:lmao

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fyatuk

That was sort of the point there. Robinson, particularly in 03, was not playing as a Superstar by the time he won championships. He was a role player with a superstar past.

That's not to say Robinson isn't a superstar, just that he wasn't playing on that level

---

Gotcha, I see what he was saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DxB

Robinson was not a superstar? Good god some ppl around here are fucking retarded...

---

I was surprised it took this long for anyone else to catch that, it was the first thing I noticed when I entered the thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by antimvp

magic-kareem-worthy

parish-bird-mchale.

---

Houston won with Hakeem and Drexler.

The Bulls 1st 3 Peat was Jordan & Pippen.

For awhile in the 90s it was the "2 star players" system. You could even argue the 2nd Bulls 3-peat as a 2 star system since Rodman was more of a role playing, one-trick pony.

From 99 to 2002 it was a 2 star system
99 - Duncan-Robinson (Elliott was not a star)
2000-2002 Shaq & Kobe

You could argue that 2003 was really 1 star team since Parker and Manu were inexperienced, Robinson was a shell of himself, and the Spurs needed guys like Kerr and Sjax to win big ggames for them.

The trend lately has been a 3 star system though:

Spurs: Duncan, Parker, Manu
Lakers: Kobe, Gasol, Odom
Celtics: KG, Pierce, Allen
Orlando: Howard, Lewis, Turkoglu

Now it's moving toward 4 stars (or All Star Quality, at least):
Spurs add Jefferson
Lakers add Artest
Orlando adds Carter and Nelson is becoming a star
Celtics add Rasheed (I know, he's old, but after Howard and Shaq, whose a better center in the East?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dunc n Dave

Houston won with Hakeem and Drexler.

---

Don't forget that Hakeem won in 1994 without Clyde Drexler. He was still in Portland in 94 and the Rockets had Otis Thorpe before they were traded for each other in 1995. Their 2nd best player was probably Vernon Maxwell or Otis Thorpe who averaged around 14 ppg. Hardly all-star numbers.