Health Care Reform: Here We Go Again!

Too long to post all of it, but an interesting read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/ma...lthcare-t.html

Why We Must Ration Health Care

By PETER SINGER
Published: July 15, 2009

You have advanced kidney cancer. It will kill you, probably in the next year or two. A drug called Sutent slows the spread of the cancer and may give you an extra six months, but at a cost of $54,000. Is a few more months worth that much?

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Health care is a scarce resource, and all scarce resources are rationed in one way or another. In the United States, most health care is privately financed, and so most rationing is by price: you get what you, or your employer, can afford to insure you for. But our current system of employer-financed health insurance exists only because the federal government encouraged it by making the premiums tax deductible. That is, in effect, a more than $200 billion government subsidy for health care. In the public sector, primarily Medicare, Medicaid and hospital emergency rooms, health care is rationed by long waits, high patient copayment requirements, low payments to doctors that discourage some from serving public patients and limits on payments to hospitals.

The case for explicit health care rationing in the United States starts with the difficulty of thinking of any other way in which we can continue to provide adequate health care to people on Medicaid and Medicare, let alone extend coverage to those who do not now have it. Health-insurance premiums have more than doubled in a decade, rising four times faster than wages. In May, Medicare’s trustees warned that the program’s biggest fund is heading for insolvency in just eight years. Health care now absorbs about one dollar in every six the nation spends, a figure that far exceeds the share spent by any other nation. According to the Congressional Budget Office, it is on track to double by 2035.

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Originally Posted by spurster

You have advanced kidney cancer. It will kill you, probably in the next year or two. A drug called Sutent slows the spread of the cancer and may give you an extra six months, but at a cost of $54,000. Is a few more months worth that much?

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I don't know if it is or not, but I do know that's not a decision I want the government making for me.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I know, poor JPMorgan just posted $2.3 billion in profits.
But I feel for you, it's going to be tough to live without that 42" HDTV.
:jack

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JPMorgan = Walstreet investments, etc...

Wtf healthcare?

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

I don't know if it is or not, but I do know that's not a decision I want the government making for me.

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Exactly. It really shouldn't be the government's decision at all.

Hasten the demise of the sick and let the true Americans live, LIVE my friends!

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

I don't know if it is or not, but I do know that's not a decision I want the government making for me.

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Who's decision do you want it to be?

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Originally Posted by 101A

JPMorgan = Walstreet investments, etc...

Wtf healthcare?

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Exactly.
I was responding to the 'It's not like we're in a global economic crisis' comment.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Hasten the demise of the sick and let the true Americans live, LIVE my friends!

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I'll drink to that. :toast

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Exactly.
I was responding to the 'It's not like we're in a global economic crisis' comment.

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That was a response to you saying that you're not worried about the CBO saying that we'll have to raise taxes by 44% to pay for all of Obama's other programs, health care not included. Personally I think being in the middle of a global economic crisis is something we ought to keep in mind when deciding whether or not to dramatically hike taxes and/or create massive new expenditures we can't pay for, but I guess that's just me.

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Originally Posted by spurster

Who's decision do you want it to be?

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That's a decision that should be made between me, my doctor and whoever has to foot the bill, most likely my insurance provider. Who's decision do you want it to be?

Anybody catch the language on the bill that cleared committee? You can keep the private insurance you have, but if you give it up you have to go with the public plan.

I am probably the last employer in the country that still pays for 100% of health care for employee and family. i put this out to bid every year and choose the provider/plan that makes the most sense. i rarely stay with one provider more than a couple of years because they get complacent and jack my rates...

This means I CAN'T get competitive bids anymore.

What a crock of shit!

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

That was a response to you saying that you're not worried about the CBO saying that we'll have to raise taxes by 44% to pay for all of Obama's other programs, health care not included. Personally I think being in the middle of a global economic crisis is something we ought to keep in mind when deciding whether or not to dramatically hike taxes, but I guess that's just me.

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The global economic crisis is for small rats like you, me and the vast majority of tax payers in this forum. The big boys keep on making the big bucks at our expense. That's not only reserved for Wall Street execs, but also big pharma. Which is the one funneling that money to the representatives you voted to make sure the status quo stays in place.
There's also something to be said for all the doom and gloom over something that's not even finalized yet. We still don't actually, really know what the final cost is going to be, because the legislation is actually not finalized. So everybody loves to panic tossing around their favorite trillion dollar figures. I'll tell you what. I'm actually a subscriber of Keynesian economics. And under Keynes, the way to get out of a recession is for the government to spend, spend, spend. So the cost actually is not what really concerns me. It's wether the reform addresses some of the things that need to be addressed. Like keeping in check big pharma and insurance co's, and things like comprehensive tort reform. But until the bill is actually final (if that ever happens at all), the entire bitching is fictional drama.
Thats is why, I'm not really frightened at all.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

That's a decision that should be made between me, my doctor and whoever has to foot the bill, most likely my insurance provider. Who's decision do you want it to be?

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If YOU selected the government to be YOUR insurance provider then YOU are leaving the decision to the government. It's YOUR decision all the way. I don't know why it's so complicated for people to understand it's a MIXED system, and you get to decide wether you go with private (if you can afford it) or public insurance.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Anybody catch the language on the bill that cleared committee? You can keep the private insurance you have, but if you give it up you have to go with the public plan.

I am probably the last employer in the country that still pays for 100% of health care for employee and family. i put this out to bid every year and choose the provider/plan that makes the most sense. i rarely stay with one provider more than a couple of years because they get complacent and jack my rates...

This means I CAN'T get competitive bids anymore.

What a crock of shit!

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I don't understand why you can't get competitive bids anymore, please explain.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I don't understand why you can't get competitive bids anymore, please explain.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

You can keep the private insurance you have, but if you give it up you have to go with the public plan.

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Whether true or not (or it was misinterpreted), thats his reasoning.

The obvious solution here is to let the sick die and rid the population of the useless, antiseptically referred to as "rationing." Abortion access should be extended through subsidization to trim the lower, generally non-white, classes.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

The obvious solution here is to let the sick die and rid the population of the useless. Abortion access should be extended through subsidization to trim the lower, generally non-white, classes.

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I think a lot of programs with intentions of propping up the unproppable are good for business.

Yes, I sense the sarcasm in your post.

nvm

Private insurers might at least keep your arse alive for a while, but the federal government will cut to the chase and stuff you in its bureaucratic bowels before it shits you out.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I don't understand why you can't get competitive bids anymore, please explain.

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The language literally says you stay with THE SAME PRIVATE HEALTH PLAN or go into the public plan...meaning that if I'm with Humana I can't take bids from Blue Cross, Aetna, etc. If I leave Humana my only choice is to go into the public plan.

It's amazing how "progress", "liberty", and "democracy" have been defined as that which is most efficient to control the masses. Will we have to say the pledge every morning in our hospital beds while we wait for some flunky physician with a MD from the Zaire School of Tribal Medicine to receive the ok from a Civil Service technician (grade GS-1) to medicate us with the latest veterinary grade medication produced by some large corporate pharmaceutical manufacturer? Jesus Christ, the country is fucking stupid.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

The language literally says you stay with THE SAME PRIVATE HEALTH PLAN or go into the public plan...meaning that if I'm with Humana I can't take bids from Blue Cross, Aetna, etc. If I leave Humana my only choice is to go into the public plan.

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My understanding of what you posted is that if you do not want to offer private insurance you have to at least provide public one. If that's not it, then I agree it's retarded. The former is how it works on most every other country.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Anybody catch the language on the bill that cleared committee? You can keep the private insurance you have, but if you give it up you have to go with the public plan.

I am probably the last employer in the country that still pays for 100% of health care for employee and family. i put this out to bid every year and choose the provider/plan that makes the most sense. i rarely stay with one provider more than a couple of years because they get complacent and jack my rates...

This means I CAN'T get competitive bids anymore.

What a crock of shit!

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Did you know that you have to be on a private plan by the 1st day the law goes into effect otherwise you will be defaulted to the government option? Look it up my friend. It's true. Anybody who thinks they are still allowing us to have a private option are not reading the details.

Goodbye free choice.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

It's amazing how "progress", "liberty", and "democracy" have been defined as that which is most efficient to control the masses. Will we have to say the pledge every morning in our hospital beds while we wait for some flunky physician with a MD from the Zaire School of Tribal Medicine to receive the ok from a Civil Service technician (grade GS-1) to medicate us with the latest veterinary grade medication produced by some large corporate pharmaceutical manufacturer? Jesus Christ, the country is fucking stupid.

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This country is now full of people who don't think for themselves and believe Government is better being in every facet of people's life. No time to read and contemplate the details-that's the government's job now isn't it?

Lol...