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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
Exactly Cowboy! Most people don't even know that. Can you believe we will all be in a government plan like it or not in a few years. We cannot switch from one private company to another. If we leave our plan, we will be defaulted to the government plan. No more choice. If this isn't socialism than I don't know what is. People are so desperate to have the government provide for them that they don't realize the slippery slope we are now going down.
So you think the government taking over health care will make it more efficient and have less middlemen? You think you will get more quality care if you are on a government plan? Have you ever known the government to be efficient and not have middlemen? Come on...Quote:
Originally Posted by ScientistMan
Did you know the Medicaid government run program will run out of money in 7 years? And you think government controlled health care is the answer to these problems? You really need to read and do research about this. It really seems like you're just thinking it's going to keep premiums down, but you're missing a lot of the problems inherent in this reform bill. I urge you to read and research, please. This program is unsustainable and will not cut medical costs. Please see the CBO statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
It's shameless how Obama talks about the 46 million people that don't have insurance without being truthful about why they don't have insurance.
The fact is that about 17 million or so are between the ages of 18-34 choose not to buy insurance because they believe they are healthy enough. The other 10 million are on Medicare and choose not to use it.
So, you are right, all this unsustainable debt just to cover 16 million people.
I don't even feel like I'm in America anymore. I feel like I'm in Europe except EVERYBODY there had to pay into the system unlike this proposal. This proposal is essentially instigating class warfare. The so called rich will pay for everybody's health care. The sad thing is they don't realize this debt is unsustainable, and we will all pay dearly. The small businesses will begin to cut jobs left and right.
And, yes it will pass. Obama will "Rahm" that bill down our throats in a partisan manner by August first, like it or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScientistMan
And neither is it helping to blindly agree with proposals that don't make sense and the country cannot afford. Obama care is easy out for people who think Government is the answer to all our problems.
By the way, you're the one as you call it"bitching and talking about Islam state religion". I never mentioned religion nor do I discuss religion which I believe is none of my business or yours. LOL.
Do you know what the CBO says or what proposals are in the health care bill. Because if you've read it , you would understand that this bill is unsustainable and will not decrease medical costs. And the decrease in medical costs was the goal for this reform.
So this reform just does not make sense as is. Both sides need to come up with a better solution. But as long as it's free, people are all for it and don't want to think about the consequences.
Second, even with House committees working in marathon sessions this week, it was clear that Democrats could not meet their goal of passing bills before the summer recess without barreling over the concerns of Republicans and ending any hope that such a major issue could be addressed in a bipartisan manner.
Third, a growing minority of Democrats have begun to express reservations about the size, scope and cost of the legislation, the expanded role of the federal government and the need for a raft of new taxes to pay for it all. The comments suggest that party leaders may not yet have the votes to pass the legislation.
Excerpted from:
Democrats Grow Wary as Health Bill Advances
Is it a free market approach? How about a summary of how it works. I'm not feeling like reading much today. Got off work a few hours ago, and an ready to sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScientistMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScientistMan
So then, you don't agree with the proposal?
Also, since you have an economic PH.D, doesn't the CBO study bother you and cause you to worry about the funding of this massive bill? This study is done by a director (Elmendorff) who was chosen by Pelosi/Senate leader and the President. This CBO indicates the costs are unsustainable. This was a huge blow to the posturing the Dems have had about how this massive bill would not add to our deficit, when in fact, the CBO proved them wrong. The CBO also concluded that this bill would not reduce medical costs.
I know the State of Massachussets is having huge problems with the universal health care plan they passed. The hospitals and Doctors are not being compensated in numerous cases, and not at all at all in many cases by the government. The discounted fees the Govt. pays are not covering the physician, hospital and medical fees. As a result, the hospitals are now suing the State of Mass.
Further, this Mass. universal system cannot sustain all their people, so they are cutting about 56,000 legal US residents out of the system. If this is an example of Universal healthcare, I am sure many people would not want their Congressman to pass this bill.
Remember the Massachussets bill was introduced by Kennnedy and by no coincidence, he is one of the originators of the inception of this massive government run health care bill.
Lastly, we voted for Obama, so I am not just partisan bickering. I thought he was a moderate and not a spend and tax president. (Yes, the laughs on me, I know)
There are a lot of problems with this government health reform bill. I hope people don't agree with this bill because they think there is no other alternative proposal. We are in a recession, Obama says, not seen since the "great depression." So why does he continue to add 400% to our deficit with this government health bill? He should stop the spending until we get this economy under control.
Partisanship aside, we are all in this together, but we must know the details of this bill. What we are getting into, and how this is going to be paid for not only in ten years but beyond. It's a travesty to vote on a bill that the American people don't know much about.
We all know problems come from insurance companies and drug companies. Accessabilty is not the problem, it's costs. I would like to hear other ideas, what section of the link should I read?
"Accessabilty is not the problem"
yes, it is. There is a huge shortage of primary care doctors now, and will be catastrophically short if 50M uninsured become covered.
But the fleeing of docs from primary care to specialties is very often "costs"-driven. ie, they can raise their costs to patients, ie the docs' revenues, by going to the specialties.
Very often, docs can't make enough in primary care because their overheads of dealing/fighting with insurance companies are high, like $250K/year for an independent primary care doctor.
The "free market" in health care has totally fucked up the country, and the "free market" in health care will never "self correct" because fucked up system is how the health care industry makes the most dollars.
"shouldn't be the government's decision at all"
but it just wonderful if some corporate middle-manager or phone jockey on commission is making the decision, including canceling your insurance completely. Then you can make your own "ratiooning" decision of finding a $100K, on you own, as you end you life with cancer or other incurable disease.
Of course, that $100K is available according to the Repugs' health plan: "Just Go to the Emergency Room"
Yea, punish the rich, make them die like the poor do. Yea!
God forbid the great should eat shit and die like the poor. :wakeupQuote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
I think we should all just hold hands and sing Kumbaya together as the government strips the wealth out of the rich and redistributes it to everybody.
Afterall, why would someone who has worked all their life for what they have expect to be have anything more than someone who never went to school for umpteen years and worked 70 hour weeks. We should all be one.
Go Obama. I just wonder why his wife sports 5,000 dollar purses now? That purse must be stripped from her and given to the poor soul huddled in the corner of Washington. :cheer
NOT!
"someone who has worked all their life for what they have"
The $800B cut in estate taxes by the Repugs, much of which cash pumped up the lending in the real estate bubble, exemplifies that much of the huge wealth, the top 3% or 4%, is not "worked" for, but inherited.
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Originally Posted by boutons_deux
Kumbaya, my Lord. Kumbaya...I love you too, man.
P.S. yeah, it was Bush's tax cuts that made me rich:lmao
You're a true socialist. Thanks for proving it. "Inherited money" as if the government worked for it. Well if it makes you feel better,, Bush gave my spouse an M.D. degree and myself, (a lawyer) A J.D. LMAO...
So when you're potentially on the losing end of class warfare, everyone else is a socialist? Is that how it works?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursmania
I see why you're panicking now. You might actually have to bend over and take it for once.
Although I really doubt it's going to happen.
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Originally Posted by ElNono
No the idea that the income we make is "inherited" from the government is truly nonsensical. As if we didn't have to pay and earn the degrees we received. That is my point.
I believe what he meant is that the top 3% or 4% of the richest out there inherited their fortunes, never necessarily worked for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursmania
Now, I don't know the accuracy of that statement, I'm just translating boutons to English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Well, we didn't inherit anything. We both came from meager backgrounds and worked while attending school to pay for loans, and everything else associated with the paths of Md's and JD's.
Also, the health reform taxes begin with people making 280K not just CEO Millionaires or Daddy's money millionaires. But even if they inherited the money or whatever, I still do not believe this country believes that only a small segment of the society should pay and be responsible for everyone's healthcare.
The super wealthy don't work, they own.
In the same direction, upward mobility has been greatly restrained in the past few decades.
Born lower class and uneducated, you've got a high probability of dying lower class and uneducated, and of being sicker throughout and dying earlier. Goes for whites as well as for blacks and browns.