Trade Idea for Thabo Sefolosha

What do think of this trade idea?

Michael Finley+Ian Mahinmi for Thabo Sefolosha

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Why would OKC do it?
Sam Presti is the brain child behind Mahinmi and would have a vested interest in adding him to the team. Finley gives them some veteran swagger and replaces Sefolosha on the wing.

Why would the Spurs do it?
The Spurs are still searching for another wing player, especially one with defensive skills. They've been a fan of Sefolosha's for a while and would obviously love to have him. Ian Mahinmi would only be our 4th best big at best this season (and even that is not guaranteed) and by trading him they free up room to snag another player with the LLE (Rasho? Shelden Williams? Gooden?). This likely makes the Spurs a more complete team in the end.

I would be all for it, but the Thunder would never give up Sefolosha he has immense potential and he showed flashes for them last year.

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Originally Posted by kbrury

I would be all for it, but the Thunder would never give up Sefolosha he has immense potential and he showed flashes for them last year.

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I'd be fine including a future 2nd to sweeten the pot. But I'm not sure even a 1st means much to the Thunder at this point. They're loaded with young talent already and more draft picks just gets a bit redundant.

Thunder wouldn't do it.

Why would you trade a young big with loads of potential whos only 22?

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Originally Posted by EricB

Why would you trade a young big with loads of potential whos only 22?

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So you can acquire a young swingman with loads of potential whos only 24 and fills an immediate need and has already proven he belongs on this level.

Even when the one thing we need is size in the paint?

If this offseason had gone down exactly the same except we acquired Thabo Sefolosha instead of Richard Jefferson we'd still probably be just as giddy as we are now. Imagine if we got both. Our wings would be the absolute best in the NBA bar none.

To acquire a talent like that you have to give up something of value. Mahinmi could very well be a great player for a long time...but I'm not sure what he can give us in the next 24 months. At this point we're all in trying to win over the next 2 or 3 years. I think Sefolosha gives you a better chance to win in the next 2 years than Mahinmi.

Thats not a condemnation of Mahinmi...thats just probably the truth. Ian has shown that he has tremendous potential. I'm just not sure if he'll realize it too late for it to matter in our championship hopes.

There's still a decent chance Mahinmi is better than Sefolosha.

I think we should keep Ian sometime into the regular season at least, it is harder to find a guy 6'11 or 7 foot with real potential than to do the same at the wing position

i will not give up Mahinmi for that

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Personally, I'm ready to cut sling on Mahinmi. There will be a lot of options this offseason to fill up the post. Mahinmi seems to make a lot of sense for this team, but he can't keep from getting hurt. That prospect really doesn't interest me.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Whoa! Lets crack the rotation before we start Mahinmi. His last two games in SL have definitely looked much better than his first, but the guy is still a serious question mark. I'm not sure he can leapfrog Bonner at all. I just hope he proves me wrong.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Making Mahinmi your 6th big and putting him in a suit probably makes the most sense at this point.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

I've really never been too impressed with Mahinmi since we signed him two years ago. He might come out and play great this year. But I think the assumption, that some have made, that Mahinmi will be a heavy rotation player this season is pretty far fetched. He hasn't even proven that he can play spot minutes in the NBA. Hes completely unproven.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Flashes? Where?

Ian Mahinmi looked like crap.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

I hope you're right. But Mahinmi has done nothing to impress me yet. Beating up on people in Austin is not the same as playing with the big boys.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

People putting Mahinmi ahead of Gist should think that through a bit. What has Mahinmi ever done? Not much of anything - plus, unlike Gist, hes injury prone. I'm thinking Gist is ahead of Mahinmi on the chart right now.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

At this point I don't think he has much of a choice. He has Duncan, Bonner and Mahinmi in the post. And Mahinmi seems intent on never amounting to much of anything.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

So you can acquire a young swingman with loads of potential whos only 24 and fills an immediate need and has already proven he belongs on this level.

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And give up on a young big, with loads of potential who's only 22, and fills an immediate need? Please! While Ian in still unproven commodity and we all know his unfortunate injury history the past 2 seasons, but he's shown amazing promise this summer. Enough promise that makes the thought of trading him away an incomprehensible one.

I like Sefolosha too, but I'd argue that Ian's upside is greater than his. Given those aspects and the fact that the Spurs would be left short on the frontline - again - this trade proposal makes absolutely no sense at all.

NO ONE yet knows what we have in Ian, so it would be stupid to give up on him this early. For those that are so ready to jettison Ian, if the Spurs ever elect NOT to pick up his option, watch how fast he'd get snapped practically every other team in the NBA. In case anyone has forgotten, young, talented bigs are in short supply in this league. Swingmen are so much easier to come by.

Bruno,

Yes, and? Ian is definitely a question mark. Hes hardly a sure thing. I stand by what I've said and I'm not changing my position. Whats your point?

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

If this offseason had gone down exactly the same except we acquired Thabo Sefolosha instead of Richard Jefferson we'd still probably be just as giddy as we are now.

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So Sefolosha is just as good as RJ? Methinks you just killed your argument.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

So Sefolosha is just as good as RJ? Methinks you just killed your argument.

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Thats not what I said at all. My point is that we've been searching for a SF forever. Getting either of Sefolosha or Jefferson was bound to excite.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Bruno,

Yes, and? Ian is definitely a question mark. Hes hardly a sure thing. I stand by what I've said and I'm not changing my position. Whats your point?

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So you think that Mahinmi is a scrub and you want to trade him for something good ?

It surely makes tons of sense.

And the reason why you want to trade Mahinmi isn't a logjam at PF/C, it's because you don't like him.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Thats not what I said at all. My point is that we've been searching for a SF forever. Getting either of Sefolosha or Jefferson was bound to excite.

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OK. You're right in that the Spurs HAVE been searching for a SF forever. However, your logic ends right there. if you think acquiring Sefalosha would generate the same excitement as acquiring RJ, you're way off base. Hello! RJ is THE better player. Therefore, MORE excitement for getting him.

Still, I don't understand why you're such a proponent of getting rid of a young, big with loads of potential, who is just starting to show promise as a contributor to your rotation. That makes no sense. You're acting as though young bigs grow on trees and the Spurs can simply pluck one out of the air next season or thereafter.

If you haven't watched any SL games, you should. Especially the last 2 games. Perhaps you'd change your tune.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

So you can acquire a young swingman with loads of potential whos only 24 and fills an immediate need and has already proven he belongs on this level.

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Mahinmi fills an immediate need.

So you think Mason, Ginobili, Jefferson, Hairston and potentially Bruce Bowen isn't enough, you need more?!?

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

So you can acquire a young swingman with loads of potential whos only 24 and fills an immediate need and has already proven he belongs on this level.

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With what minutes?

I don't think Sefalosha plays ahead of Jefferson, Mason, nor Ginobili.

So again, this trade makes no sense.

Doesn't Oklahoma City already have a Mahinmi of their own in Ibaka? Why would they be interested in ours?

Furthermore, Sefalosha got little to no time in the playoffs.

Ian WILL be a rotation big for the Spurs next season.

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Originally Posted by EricB

So you think Mason, Ginobili, Jefferson, Hairston and potentially Bruce Bowen isn't enough, you need more?!?

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And Finley.

Finley should be useful in a limited role next year (if Spurs don't trade him).

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Doesn't Oklahoma City already have a Mahinmi of their own in Ibaka? Why would they be interested in ours?

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Another good point. In fact, they seem to be taking the same developmental approach with Ibaka, that the Spurs took with Ian.

Also, anybody get a look at Ibaka the other night? Led the Thunder in rebs and produced a double-double. Not too shabby.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

And the reason why you want to trade Mahinmi isn't a logjam at PF/C, it's because you don't like him.

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I just don't see how he can help the way Thabo can. I'm not sure hes really good enough to crack the rotation ahead of the guys we already have in anything more than spot minutes. As a long-term fit hes certainly more valuable than Thabo (bigs almost always are) but I'm of the "all-in" mindset for the next 2-3 years. Thabo seems to fit that bill better than Ian.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

So you think that Mahinmi is a scrub and you want to trade him for something good ?

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That would be severely overstating it. I think hes completely unproven and I'm highly suspicious of his level of injury-proneness. But many of those comments that you listed came as a response to somebody creaming themselves and severely overstating his ability to contribute (ie, "start Ian!!!!!!!1!!!"). The guy is simply probably not ready to be that big of a contributor (especially with better options ahead of him) right NOW. People are still talking about starting the guy when hes pretty much done nothing outside the D-League. Thats not bias, thats fact.

And I'm not anti-Ian. I hope he becomes the greatest player he can possibly be. Especially if it's in a Spurs uni. But the truth of the matter is that he IS a trade asset. Most of this team's assets are in the form of expiring contracts (which not all teams are seeking). When dealing with some teams the old Vaughn+Bonner trade has no value...even as expirings. Sometimes you have to give up talent to get talent.

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Originally Posted by EricB

Mahinmi fills an immediate need.

So you think Mason, Ginobili, Jefferson, Hairston and potentially Bruce Bowen isn't enough, you need more?!?

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Uh hello, haven't we been talking for the last few weeks about trading for Raja Bell? Or Andres Nocioni? How is that sane and yet Sefolosha is ridiculous?

Malik Hairston probably deserves a shot at the rotation. But again, hes largely untested. And Bruce Bowen's return is absolute fantasy at this point. Is it possible? Sure. But I have seen no concrete proof that it WILL happen.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

And Finley.

Finley should be useful in a limited role next year (if Spurs don't trade him).

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Uh hello, haven't we been talking for the last few weeks about trading for Raja Bell? Or Andres Nocioni? How is that sane and yet Sefolosha is ridiculous?

Malik Hairston probably deserves a shot at the rotation. But again, hes largely untested. And Bruce Bowen's return is absolute fantasy at this point. Is it possible? Sure. But I have seen no concrete proof that it WILL happen.

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So again, trade a need for a mystical need.

Got it.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Doesn't Oklahoma City already have a Mahinmi of their own in Ibaka? Why would they be interested in ours?

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exactly. and next season they will play Green full time at PF (because Harden will play full time SG, so Durant will play full time SF), additionally they have also White and Mullens, another 2 rookies in the big department. if there is any need the Thunder don't have, it's another rookie PF.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

I hope he becomes the greatest player he can possibly be. Especially if it's in a Spurs uni. But the truth of the matter is that he IS a trade asset.

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You said that Gist>Mahinmi.

Given that Sefolosha is that great for you, Spurs should give up a better trade asset for him like Gist.

Whenever there is a thread about Mahinmi, you post negative things about him. So, even if you say you aren't an "anti-Ian", you're one.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Uh hello, haven't we been talking for the last few weeks about trading for Raja Bell? Or Andres Nocioni? How is that sane and yet Sefolosha is ridiculous?

Malik Hairston probably deserves a shot at the rotation. But again, hes largely untested. And Bruce Bowen's return is absolute fantasy at this point. Is it possible? Sure. But I have seen no concrete proof that it WILL happen.

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Trading away a big with loads of potential with a bargain of a contract for a wing that would have trouble getting playing time makes no sense. Especially for the fact that Spurs are thin in the front court and especially since Spurs lack a 6'11 athletic big man who can play inside, run the floor, block shots from the weak side. Not to mention he's only 22. Spurs have been looking for a big man with those qualities for a long while, and hopefully patience will pay off this time around.

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Originally Posted by EricB

So again, trade a need for a mystical need.

Got it.

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Why should I even react to your comment? It's not like I'm the only one that has been talking about getting a defensive wing. Countless threads talk about guys like Raja Bell and Andres Nocioni. So why is it that I'm the retarded one in suggesting this? If timvp had suggested we pick up a defensive wing you wouldn't be saying the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

You said that Gist>Mahinmi.

Given that Sefolosha is that great for you, Spurs should give up a better trade asset for him like Gist.

Whenever there is a thread about Mahinmi, you post negative things about him. So, even if you say you aren't an "anti-Ian", you're one.

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Am I on trial?

When did this thread become about me?

And I made the Gist comments pre-SL assuming he could fill small-ball 4 minutes. Hes obviously not ready for that now.

Spurs need a shot blocking, shot altering big and Mahinmi is the best possibility.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Why should I even react to your comment? It's not like I'm the only one that has been talking about getting a defensive wing. Countless threads talk about guys like Raja Bell and Andres Nocioni. So why is it that I'm the retarded one in suggesting this? If timvp had suggested we pick up a defensive wing you wouldn't be saying the same thing.

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The only wing I'd add is Bruce Bowen, outside of that, I think they are set.

Trading a 22 year old 7 foot talented bigman would NOT be a way I'd want to add to the team.

I actually want to see what Ian can do on the pro level before the spurs bring in Splitter (If that ever happens) and before we
trade him.. Which i doubt.
The thunder are high on Thabo Sefolosha right now. They're not looking to trade him.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Am I on trial?

When did this thread become about me?

And I made the Gist comments pre-SL assuming he could fill small-ball 4 minutes. Hes obviously not ready for that now.

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So you'd trade Mahinmi for a wing, and have a small power forward whos underperforming take his place.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Am I on trial?

When did this thread become about me?

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You created a thread with a Mahinmi trade and I just pointed out that you don't like it. It's quite obvious that it's a big reason why you want to trade him.
I don't see where is the trial...

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

And I made the Gist comments pre-SL assuming he could fill small-ball 4 minutes. Hes obviously not ready for that now.

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So Mahinmi is above Gist after these 3 SL games while you were convinced that Gist was better than him before them ?

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Why should I even react to your comment? It's not like I'm the only one that has been talking about getting a defensive wing. Countless threads talk about guys like Raja Bell and Andres Nocioni. So why is it that I'm the retarded one in suggesting this? If timvp had suggested we pick up a defensive wing you wouldn't be saying the same thing.

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There is absolutely no time available for a player of Thabo's stature or a defensive wing on the cheap(Yes even Bruce Bowen or Keith Bogans would have an abundance of DNP nights with the way we are loaded on the wing). Also considering GH will find time at the 2 this year. What don't you understand about that?

In order to get Nocioni and Bell, Spurs more than likely would have to pony up Mason/ Bonner to get those guys or maybe Finley/ Bonner and a 1st for Bell. Right now it would be a premature move by the Spurs FO, considering they don't know what Mahimni and Blair will actually bring from the bench next year. If they end up playing above or up to expectations Bonner will become VERY expendable and Spurs could look for such a move.

Reason why people mention Bell and Nocioni is because they make the most sense both ways.

(1) Bell has an expiring contract and more than likely won't be back in Charlotte therefore could be attainable by offering expirings close to the deadline( Finley/ Bonner and 1st). *This happens if Mahimni and Blair fill in the void in the frontcourt.*

(2) Kings are looking to unload payroll and Nocioni fits that bill. Spurs have expirings and a pick they could include in such a trade or even the rights to Splitter. *This happens if Mahimni and Blair fill in the void in the frontcourt*.

(3)Thunder traded a 1st round pick for Thabo not even a year ago knowing his contract is up in two years. Thunder would not trade Thabo for an unproven commodity in Mahimni right now ( even though he was Presti's pick. At the same time, Spurs don't have the minutes for Thabo and are thin at the C/ PF position. Those two scenarios don't match up.

And the trade scenario's for Nocioni and Bell do match up. That's why people have been proposing such deals over yours.

On the other hand if Mahimni and Blair or if theres a scenario to where Bonner is getting 25 minutes a night again. Then Spurs could include Mahimni as a deal sweetener close to the deadline along with Bonner/ Mason or Finley plus 1st to get a guy like Camby.

Any move right now by the Spurs FO would be a little premature. Let's see how the big tandem in Mahimni/ Blair/ Haislip do the first 2-3 months of the year and hold on to our trading assets. By then we will know whats more of a need a Nocioni/ Bell caliber 3rd wing? Or a Camby like big man?

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Originally Posted by EricB

So you'd trade Mahinmi for a wing, and have a small power forward whos underperforming take his place.

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No....if you actually read the previous posts I said that you would pursue signing a guy like Rasho or Gooden with the LLE after that. Nothing in this thread that I've said indicates that.

The Gist thing was only brought up because pre-SL I said that Gist would probably be ahead of Ian in the rotation because of his ability to potentially play the small ball 4.

It's just asinine to thin out our front court anymore. The Spurs would be dumb to pull the trigger on a trade like this. Mahinmi is young too you know. He'd probably get more minutes than Sefolosha anyway.

A player like Nocioni would played a lot of minutes at PF for Spurs.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

No....if you actually read the previous posts I said that you would pursue signing a guy like Rasho or Gooden with the LLE after that. Nothing in this thread that I've said indicates that.

The Gist thing was only brought up because pre-SL I said that Gist would probably be ahead of Ian in the rotation because of his ability to potentially play the small ball 4.

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Gooden can't be had with the LLE first off.

Second, you want more defense, yet you wan to bring back Gooden?

huh!?!?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

You created a thread with a Mahinmi trade and I just pointed out that you don't like it. It's quite obvious that it's a big reason why you want to trade him.
I don't see where is the trial...

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I've never tried to cover up my dismay with Ian. But a lot of my issues are not with him but with people that think he can be a 20/10 guy on day 1. Sometimes teams trade projects (even good ones) for players that are solid NOW to get them where they want to get.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

So Mahinmi is above Gist after these 3 SL games while you were convinced that Gist was better than him before them ?

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Almost certainly. And I didn't so much think Gist looked better...he just held a very niche position (small ball 4) where he could help. But Gist has looked completely lost in his transition from 4 to 3. I don't think hes viable in the big league right now.

Mahinmi has actually looked pretty damn good since the first game. Game 2 he did a bit of everything (and his fouls were largely silly or bad officiating) and Game 3 was very solid. But I never made any negative comments about those games. In fact, I haven't made any comments at all. I was gone in Spain. Ian has frustrated me for a while. But I haven't been out to get him, just bring people back to earth on what he will probably really give us this year.

I admit I have been highly critical of Mahinmi. But you initially made it seem like this was Salem and I've been on a witch-hunt for the guy. It's not like I've been a kill_bill_pana like rage in reverse over this guy. This is, in fact, the first time I've offered up a specific trade where we could move Mahinmi.

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Originally Posted by EricB

Gooden can't be had with the LLE first off.

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Are you so sure? Whos offering him more than that right now?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

A player like Nocioni would played a lot of minutes at PF for Spurs.

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True. But Raja Bell would not. And hes been discussed at length.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

True. But Raja Bell would not. And hes been discussed at length.

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Read my post.

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Originally Posted by TimDunkem

It's just asinine to thin out our front court anymore. The Spurs would be dumb to pull the trigger on a trade like this. Mahinmi is young too you know. He'd probably get more minutes than Sefolosha anyway.

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We wouldn't be as thin as you think. If the Spurs felt confident that they could get a guy like Rasho then it would actually be ok.

Two awesome vets: Duncan, McDyess
Two decent vets: Bonner, Rasho
One awesome youth: Blair
One decent youth: Haislip

Considering you'll probably only play 4 of those 6 you're really not looking bad at all.

I think some guys get nervous when they don't have their fix of real NBA games.

Let's start that new season already !!! :fight

It was simply a trade idea. Nothing more.

But I'm getting tired of people putting words in my mouth. Take the idea for what it is...an idea. If you think it's shit then fine. If you like it then fine. I was simply voicing an idea that came to me.

Any of the suggested trades would be too premature right now. Spurs FO would be wise to wait it out and see if Mahimni/ Blair/ Haislip sink or swim even at the expense of some of the Red Rockets PT.

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Originally Posted by ericb

why would you trade a young big with loads of potential whos only 22?

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+1

i know this is just a trade idea.....but HELL NO! Ian is a big who is still young and has potential which he has not had much of a chance to show....no way bigs are hard as hell to find

I can never understand all the hate on Ian. He has done everything that the Spurs have asked of him & he has never questioned them. He got hurt. MRI's, xrays, catscans, none of them picked up the floating bone fragment. How is that Ian's fault? Let the kid play at least full season on the Spurs before making judgment on whether he is a "bust" or not.

As for the trade idea. I like Thabo. I think he would be a good fit here. You never really trade a big for a small unless, you are getting the best player in the deal. At this point, I dont know how anyone can say Thabo is better than Ian, or vice versa. They dont play the same position, you cant teach heigth, big men are definitly harder to come by than swingman. We now have RJ, so unless they would give Thabo up for Fin & a future pick, I think it would be idiotic to trade potential for potential. Ian has a higher ceiling than Thabo, no pun intended.

I think Sefolosha is a pretty good player, and I agree that sometimes it's wise to trade potential to fill an immediate need. However, given where the Spurs typically draft, I think having a young center with real potential is too valuable to give up. An athletic 5 is a much more difficult position to find than a defensive 3.

It seems that for many people, Mahinmi has risen in the last week from an always-injured underachieving Big back up to a beloved untouchable prospect. James Gist has dropped from the mythic heights of best summer league player '08 and inspiration for long laudatory threads down to a guy who ain't gonna cut it in the USA.

It'd be funny if Marcus Williams turns out to be better than either one of them.

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Originally Posted by Tully365

It seems that for many people, Mahinmi has risen in the last week from an always-injured underachieving Big back up to a beloved untouchable prospect. James Gist has dropped from the mythic heights of best summer league player '08 and inspiration for long laudatory threads down to a guy who ain't gonna cut it in the USA.

It'd be funny if Marcus Williams turns out to be better than either one of them.

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No kidding. You'd think I said to trade Duncan.

Ian will get limited chances this year to prove himself. If he proves himself like we know Blair will, then He could possilby crack the rotation...(long shot).

As far as the team is concerned, I like the amoount of vets and youngsters. All the best spurs teams had a nice combination of vets and athletes.

Vets like Fin and Dice will be important for the team to lean on.

I kinda think our Team is fine as it is. Give up the Trades already ,,,with out a major injury, the Spurs are set.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

No kidding. You'd think I said to trade Duncan.

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:lol internet sports forum junkies are very sensitive people... you don't want to upset their delicate fickle balance.

I'd love to see how hairston does playing some decent minutes at the SF spot, so no.

Holy shit, this thread turned into the Inquisition v 2.0... burn Darkwaters, burn! :lol

Seriously, if there's a reason why I wouldn't jump at this trade, it's because after events unfolded in the past few months, I think at the moment the Spurs need a bigman more than they need a swingman, and Oklahoma needs a seasoned guard more than they need a raw bigman, so likely neither would pull the trigger. But other than that, this isn't half bad an idea.

We all know the Spurs window of opportunity is closing. And since it isn't Christmas every day, to get something we'd likely have to part with something of value, namely the rights to Splitter, Gist, or Mahinmi himself. GMs love youth and potential, and those they have.

And considering Ian may live up to his promise, or he may not, and even if he does, he may not do so within the next 2/3 years (which is where the Spurs should commit all their resources), if a trade came through that would favour the Spurs in the short term, then you have to do it... even if we end up losing in the long term.

So call me crazy, but I don't think pondering a trade of one of the young prospects on Spurs constitutes any kind of heresy, it's simply the reflection of what our needs are and how to get there, nothing more, nothing less...

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Originally Posted by Tully365

:lol internet sports forum junkies are very sensitive people... you don't want to upset their delicate fickle balance.

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Or the trade proposed makes no sense at the moment. Either or.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

The Spurs are still searching for another wing player, especially one with defensive skills.

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Are they?

Or is SpursTalk searching for one?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Are they?

Or is SpursTalk searching for one?

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:lol +1

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

(3)Thunder traded a 1st round pick for Thabo not even a year ago knowing his contract is up in two years. Thunder would not trade Thabo for an unproven commodity in Mahimni right now ( even though he was Presti's pick. At the same time, Spurs don't have the minutes for Thabo and are thin at the C/ PF position. Those two scenarios don't match up.

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[/thread]

Besides...any trade that does not include unloading Bonner is not worth discussing.

:lol Very true... but how would spurstalk have reacted two weeks ago to a thread suggesting Marcus Williams is a better prospect than James Gist, which now seems to be the case?

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Originally Posted by benefactor

[/thread]

Besides...any trade that does not include unloading Bonner is not worth discussing.

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Why? Bonner had one of the best 3 point shooting percentages in the entire league last year. His weakness lay in the fact that he was asked to do too much last season. If you make him the 4th big then hes pretty stellar actually.

Plus hes relatively cheap and expiring.

Why the Bonner hate? He'll be gone in 12 months if nothing else if not before the deadline.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Are they?

Or is SpursTalk searching for one?

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SpursTalk of course. Nobody ever really knows what the Spurs are doing which is why speculative threads like this thrive so much in this forum. Thats the fun in being a Spurs fan! :lol

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Why? Bonner had one of the best 3 point shooting percentages in the entire league last year. His weakness lay in the fact that he was asked to do too much last season. If you make him the 4th big then hes pretty stellar actually.

Plus hes relatively cheap and expiring.

Why the Bonner hate? He'll be gone in 12 months if nothing else if not before the deadline.

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We agree he has some value then. :tu

The Spurs are seemingly moving towards more athletic players off the bench. As MB said, they are beginning to look past the Duncan era and into the Parker era with the players they are acquiring. Bonner just doesn't seem to fit anymore.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Are they?

Or is SpursTalk searching for one?

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:lol Timvp said the exact same thing about the spurs looking for another defensive minded wing a week ago. But he's infallible on spurstalk, so nobody dares to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Tully365

:lol Timvp said the exact same thing about the spurs looking for another defensive minded wing a week ago. But he's infallible on spurstalk, so nobody dares to disagree.

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He may have sources, but I haven't seen any other indications.

I'm actually thinking they are ready to roll into the season with the 14 players they currently have under contract barring some LLE bargain or SL/training camp revelation.

But that is sheer speculation on my part.

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Originally Posted by benefactor

We agree he has some value then. :tu

The Spurs are seemingly moving towards more athletic players off the bench. As MB said, they are beginning to look past the Duncan era and into the Parker era with the players they are acquiring. Bonner just doesn't seem to fit anymore.

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Absolutely. Haislip looks like Bonner's athletic replacement. We'll see if he can unseat him or if he does the Oberto routine for a season.

Still, Bonner is a guy with knowledge of the system that played a big role last year. He still has a lot to give this season...though it will probably be his last in the silver and black.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

He may have sources, but I haven't seen any other indications.

I'm actually thinking they are ready to roll into the season with the 14 players they currently have under contract barring some LLE bargain or SL/training camp revelation.

But that is sheer speculation on my part.

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I agree. Though I think the point Darkwaters was trying to make-- that people had over-reacted to a simple proposal is true, too.

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Originally Posted by Tully365

I agree. Though I think the point Darkwaters was trying to make-- that people had over-reacted to a simple proposal is true, too.

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It wouldn't be SpursTalk if we didn't.

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Originally Posted by tully365

i agree. Though i think the point darkwaters was trying to make-- that people had over-reacted to a simple proposal is true, too.

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+1000

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

It wouldn't be SpursTalk if we didn't.

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Ok, granted.

+1

:lol

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

It wouldn't be SpursTalk if we didn't.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Ok, granted.

+1

:lol

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:lol

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Originally Posted by vic petro

i think sefolosha is a pretty good player, and i agree that sometimes it's wise to trade potential to fill an immediate need. However, given where the spurs typically draft, i think having a young center with real potential is too valuable to give up. An athletic 5 is a much more difficult position to find than a defensive 3.

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+1

I don't think it would be fine for the spurs to trade Mahinmi for Thabo.
I really don't believe that what Thabo can give the spurs now worths what Mahinmi may bring to the spurs in the future.The spurs have Ginobili,Mason,Finley,Hairston,Jefferson now in 2 and 3.Thabo can hardly give the spurs more even just because he wouldn't have enough time.I thinnk a hope that a bigman might become another David Robinson or even just Camby is better that Thabo for the current spurs.

wouldnt give up mahinmi finley+someone else maybe like miclinton+gist lol

No deal. Finley still can play spot minutes, can't believe I just said that. Mahinmi, on the other hand, at this age of swingmen, could become a really good big which is a rare specimen.

Alright then, it's settled. It is not worth giving up the potential Ian for the play of Thabo. Close the thread.

why would Presti even take the call on this proposed trade?

It's not like he came in and was stuck with Sefolosha. He went out and traded for him, hell, Sefolosha finished the season as a starter.

So trade him for a big who's one dunk attempt in practice away from a blown pec, one ankle sprain from invisible bone chips, and one hard foul and landing away from a lower back injury?

After they've already signed Ibaka ahead of expectations from last season?

After they've drafted Mullens?

I love Mahinmi, but I don't see how that's a realistic trade. A starter for a guy who missed an entire season when you have other young bigs in the wings? When everyone in the media is gushing over Ibaka, and the only praise for Mahinmi in SL are slight complements like Thorpe saying that he's always found Mahinmi intriguing?

And from the Spurs side, no, you don't give up on him yet. If the trade is there now it will be there after camp. And besides, Mahinmi still has potential that can be fulfilled. McDyess is only on the two years guaranteed. He could break down at any time. Blair is a different kind of player and has suspect knees. Haislip could go back to Spain if he feels like making real money again. Splitter might never come over. Mahinmi is a cheap insurance policy.

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Originally Posted by Big P

I can never understand all the hate on Ian. He has done everything that the Spurs have asked of him & he has never questioned them. He got hurt. MRI's, xrays, catscans, none of them picked up the floating bone fragment. How is that Ian's fault? Let the kid play at least full season on the Spurs before making judgment on whether he is a "bust" or not.

As for the trade idea. I like Thabo. I think he would be a good fit here. You never really trade a big for a small unless, you are getting the best player in the deal. At this point, I dont know how anyone can say Thabo is better than Ian, or vice versa. They dont play the same position, you cant teach heigth, big men are definitly harder to come by than swingman. We now have RJ, so unless they would give Thabo up for Fin & a future pick, I think it would be idiotic to trade potential for potential. Ian has a higher ceiling than Thabo, no pun intended.

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Exactly. Bigs are (very) hard to find and young bigs even more. You don't trade a 5 for a 2/3 except for a very very good 2/3.

Moreover, as Ian still hasn't played a single NBA season (he still hasn't played a full NBA game !) it's very hard to stop betting on him.

I think we're in a better position by keeping Finley+Hairston as back ups of RJ + Ian and Blair as a young duo of bigs to develop than having Thabo, as a back up of RJ and only Blair as a young big to develop (I don't include Gist as a big).

So, no I wouldn't do the trade.

Mahinmi needs to bottle up the agression and passion he played with in his last summer league game and bring it every night.

The spurs are still thin on the frontline with only Duncan, McDyess and Blair worth getting quality minutes. Bonner needs to have his minutes limited, Haislip is also not a heavy rotaion quality big and Rasho is not on the spurs.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Absolutely. Haislip looks like Bonner's athletic replacement. We'll see if he can unseat him or if he does the Oberto routine for a season.

Still, Bonner is a guy with knowledge of the system that played a big role last year. He still has a lot to give this season...though it will probably be his last in the silver and black.

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Somehow I keep having this vision of Bonner guarding Haislip out on the wing in a practice session. Haislip fakes baseline and easily drives by him for a slam. Bonner looks around wondering what the hell happened. Again, it's only a vision.

Ian Mahinmi Is 22 years old....... If he were 26 and playing like this, then i would Understand.... Plus he was Hurt All of last year...... Give the Kid A Chance..... He Will be A Solid Big Man in this League.....

Pass. It'd be one thing if Mahinmi suffered a career threatening injury and has come back tentatively, but that's not the case. The injury he did suffer kept him from joining the rotation last season, which by all accounts the Spurs had penciled him in to do.

Spurs fans have dismissed Mahinmi for no other reason than that he was out last season. That's it. Fortunately, the Spurs have not done so.

Although Pop and the others in the FO talk about Ian like they found him at 281 and 410 yesterday and have no idea who he is.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Although Pop and the others in the FO talk about Ian like they found him at 281 and 410 yesterday and have no idea who he is.

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That kind of suggests he isn't being shopped, doesn't it?

True... there seems a difference in tone and level of enthusiasm coming from Pop and RC when talking about Hill or Blair as opposed to when the topic of Mahinmi comes up.