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Hooey! Bowen hardly played last year. The perimeter defense will be much better w/ RJ instead of Finley. The interior defense will improve w/ McDyess instead of Bonner. After working the new faces in during the 1st half of the season I expect the Spurs to have a top 3 defense after the all star break.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorSpur
The defense will be good enough. The upgrade in offense will more than offset it. The spurs will be blowing out teams this year while last year they could not. The point differential will be better this year than it was last year so the team will be better.
The point differential is more important than overall defense.
Not in the playoffs when it matters. Defense wins championships, and even with the offensive upgrades, Pop still knows this. I hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
Spurs defense will be slightly better than last year, but unfortunately thats not that good. The offensive improvement should be enough to offset that though. SA defense was great a few years ago but either defenses have evolved or the Spurs players have just gotten older/slower, nowadays SA defense is above average but not elite.
Like I said, offensive improvement should be enough to compensate. Get TD completely healthy and he'll do enough to get the job done on D well enough.
I dont know, but just from observation, SA defense wasn't "elite" either this year or last regardless. It wont be next season either, but as we've seen before you don't necessarily need it to be in order to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
I don't think it was elite, I think there was a big drop-off from 3rd to 4th and after..I agree that it doesn't have to be elite though..
The system is elite. The personnel? Not so much. You swap McDyess with Bonner, and Jefferson with Finley for the majority of minutes at those positions, your going to see some improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by picc84
No body can say how much better it will be until we see it - but theres definately alot of potential to be better, and thats all you can ask for.
I think we still need to be elite defensively to win it all. And I think we have the chance to be.
To be elite the defense would need someone besides Tim who can protect the rim. The system works at optimum level when there are two mobile shot blockers who can fill lanes when scorers are funnelled their way by wing defenders.
We'll likely be good but not great.
It wasn't elite in 2008 with Kurt Thomas swapped for Bonner and Bruce Bowen in for Finley either. It is the system. I can tell you first hand that defensively, going from SA to Boston last year was like night and day. They made SA's defensive philosophies in the previous series seem primitive. Defenses in the league have gotten better and in comparison the Spurs D, which certainly was elite at a time, has looked worse in comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by mystargtr34
I'll eat my words if upcoming season i'm proven wrong, but I doubt it, highly. I'm just looking forward to seeing a healthy Tim Duncan and how far he can anchor the team against the other superpowers.
Defenses haven't gotten better, that's just a ridiculous argument to make..defense in the NBA hasn't changed at all from 2005 to now, and our defense was elite in 2005 to 2007..that might be the worst argument I've ever heard..
the clear difference between Boston and San Antonio in 2008 was the players, and the fact that Pop decided to single-team Kobe, probably due to the personnel..Boston didn't have a bunch of players in their mid-30s trying to be defensive role players..
how can you possibly blame the system, when I listed everything we had to overcome last year, and still finished 5th defensively?..
It's called the declining of players, clearly..it shouldn't be too difficult to comprehend..we've clearly swapped old for young in most cases, and it will clearly make a huge difference..
I'll go out on a limb and dust off this pearl of wisdom from Whottt:
This team will be so mean it will rip the asshole out of an elephant.
2007?..Quote:
Originally Posted by vic petro
Boston was the #1 ranked defense in games vs every team other than the Lakers, so its not like the decision to single-cover Kobe Bryant was solely responsible for the Spurs defense being worse than Boston's. Cleveland also had a better defense despite starting two dinosaurs in the frontcourt (Z/Wallace) and two midgets in the frontcourt (Mo/Delonte).Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
From observing all 3 defenses, the Celtics and Cavs rotated better, trapped better, switched better. Their defensive philosophies were more aggressive and strategic than SA's.
In addition, the primary defenders on Kobe in the Boston series were all over 30. KG is the same age as Duncan. Allen was 33. Pierce and Posey both over 30. Bowens age was higher but he's never been able to stop Kobe no matter what his age was.
None of the Celtics players were known as great defenders until they played for Boston under Thibodeau. Bostons system was the best in the league and SA's was far from it. McDyess is no better a defender than Kurt Thomas and Jefferson no better than Bowen of 2 years ago. The defense will be what it was then and is now - sufficient given enough complimentary offense.
I'm not blaming the system for anything. You act like I said SA's defense sucks. It doesn't. The defense is not why they lost this year or last year, the offense was. That was obvious.Quote:
how can you possibly blame the system, when I listed everything we had to overcome last year, and still finished 5th defensively?..
I'm just saying the defense is not ELITE in the same sense as a Boston or Cleveland and wont be this upcoming season either, no matter what the personnel is, because the system is not as effective in its most fundamental aspects as the other teams'.
No, it wasn't solely responsible..the better players were, like I said in my previous post..Quote:
Originally Posted by picc84
Cleveland didn't have a better defense in 2008, which is my argument..they were 11th with the same system..
I'm not judging our defense in the past season, because there were way too many factors to consider, specifically injuries..
Cleveland was ranked 11th defensively in 2008, under the same system..so let's not compare them here..Quote:
From observing all 3 defenses, the Celtics and Cavs rotated better, trapped better, switched better. Their defensive philosophies were more aggressive and strategic than SA's.
Boston rotated and trapped better, because they had superior players..guys like Rondo and Perkins make a huge difference..
KG had Kendrick Perkins next to him all year, one of the best defensive players in the NBA..Quote:
In addition, the primary defenders on Kobe in the Boston series were all over 30. KG is the same age as Duncan. Allen was 33. Pierce and Posey both over 30. Bowens age was higher but he's never been able to stop Kobe no matter what his age was.
Pierce and Posey took turns as the primary defenders against Kobe and other swingmen..the Spurs didn't have that luxury..we only had Bowen that could do it, and it's tough for a guy in his late 30's to be the only good defensive wing player in a series..
Also, as you said, Kobe has simply always played well against us, even when we had the best defensive in the NBA for years..
When you plug in young players like Rondo and Perkins as your 2nd and 3rd best defenders, it makes a huge difference..
The Spurs were 3rd in the NBA in defense in 2008, I don't understand where you're getting this "far from it" attitude..Quote:
None of the Celtics players were known as great defenders until they played for Boston under Thibodeau. Bostons system was the best in the league and SA's was far from it. McDyess is no better a defender than Kurt Thomas and Jefferson no better than Bowen of 2 years ago. The defense will be what it was then and is now - sufficient given enough complimentary offense.
Boston's players were clearly superior, as I showed before..
KG was always an elite defensive players, Perkins was already considered a good defender, Posey was always considered a good defender, and so was Rondo..the only guy that had his perception changed was Pierce, who was never considered a bad defender..
I agree that McDyess will be the same as Kurt of 2 years ago, and Jefferson will be no better than Bowen was 2 years ago..the Spurs of that year finished 3rd defensively, which can surely be considered elite..that's without the potential defensive upgrades in our young guys that could prove themselves as young defensive role players off the bench..
In what league is #3 in defense not considered elite?..
I'm not saying better personnel wouldn't have helped at all. I'm saying that under a different system SA's defense would have been better regardless of the players. By how much, who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
You're right, my mistake.Quote:
Cleveland didn't have a better defense in 2008, which is my argument..they were 11th with the same system..
I'm just recalling pure defensive principles and spacing on the floor on defense. SA was less aggressive and strategic in terms of their player placement. Against SA i'd watch Kobe get the ball in isolation and i'd see the lanes he could take to get where he wanted before he even did it. Against Boston I didnt see any. Thats not personnel, its system spacing and player placement.Quote:
Boston rotated and trapped better, because they had superior players..guys like Rondo and Perkins make a huge difference..
KG had Kendrick Perkins next to him all year, one of the best defensive players in the NBA..
Pierce, Posey, and Allen were part of a wall formed around Kobe at almost all times. They didnt defend him one-on-one for more than a few seconds at a time. Whenever he moved other Celtics players would rotate and trap. SA basically let him get wherever he wanted to. That may have been by design but then thats a good reason the system isn't as good, isn't it? A more flawed design.Quote:
Pierce and Posey took turns as the primary defenders against Kobe and other swingmen..the Spurs didn't have that luxury..we only had Bowen that could do it, and it's tough for a guy in his late 30's to be the only good defensive wing player in a series..
It didnt seem like it. They may have been 3rd but in the postseason after facing SA and then Boston they may as well have been 20th. Thats just how it felt.Quote:
The Spurs were 3rd in the NBA in defense in 2008, I don't understand where you're getting this "far from it" attitude..
Pierce and Allen were never considered good defenders. Posey's rep as a great defender only came after the championship, thats part of the reason he got that huge contract from New Orleans - where coincidentally his defense now is all of a sudden not so reknowned again. Rondo's defensive tag came with the assembly of the '08 team as well.Quote:
KG was always an elite defensive players, Perkins was already considered a good defender, Posey was always considered a good defender, and so was Rondo..the only guy that had his perception changed was Pierce, who was never considered a bad defender..
In contrast, Duncan is as good a defender as KG. Kurt Thomas was viewed just as highly defensively as Perkins, again, until the '08 team formed - only then did his rep increase to defensive stalwart. Bowen was viewed higher than Posey. Manu the same as Allen or Pierce. It was only when that championship superteam was formed that these guys' reps inflated to what they are now. And they all echoed the same sentiments when asked why the defense of the team was so good - the system and Tom Thibodeau.
Maybe thats where we're getting mixed up here. I mean elite in universal terms. If you have a weak defensive league, there can be a #1 ranked team that still isn't an elite defensive team, just the best in a pool of average talent. Being ranked #3 doesn't necessarily mean you had an elite defensive team either.Quote:
In what league is #3 in defense not considered elite?..
The Spurs have not been an elite defensive ballclub since '07.
I think at the beginning our defense will be average.
Too many new faces playing together. It will take Pop a while to lock down any kind of rotation. Our pace will be quicker and we'll score more points to offset the average defense. As players become more familiar with the system and each other, our defense will improve. I expect to see more blowouts this year. There is potential for us to be top 3 defensively by the end of the year.
:lol:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Rogue
It's time for you to stick your head back up your ass.
Also agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by picc84
Spurs will be better with younger more athletic players and better rebounders, there's no way the Spurs don't improve unless their IQs turn to mush. Spurs should be able to play a much more aggressive form of defence this coming season. They should be a top 3 defensive team in every sense of the term. Pop is probably sleeping like a baby with our potential next year. He probably is getting stiffies just thinking about his defensive options.:lol
If I was a Laker fan I'd be worried about the PG situation and your bench. I'm sure a scheme is in place to trade Vujacic for Rudy Gay.:bang