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Since we all have differing opinions about Health Care reform, I am interested in knowing what you personally would like to see reformed? Or why you would not want any reform?
This is not a bashing thread. I just want to compare what we all would like to see changed to what is being proposed.
Do you want access to insurance? Prescriptions? Better quality Doctors? care? Premiums too high? Hospital fees too high? Also, tell me who you think should pay for the reform?
Cheaper insurance, or cheaper health care. I would prefer a system that is localized, where members of a community form a co-op for their health insurance, with doctors being less vulnerable to frivolous law suits, so they are more willing to attempt complicated procedures (and also decrease costs of regular procedures), to actually improve quality of life for the afflicted .
I dont want what this is turning out to be.
I wanted Pharma companies to be reigned in on costs and advertising (there was a time it was illegal to advertise prescriptions) to health providers/insurance companies.
I wanted insurance to be non-profit across the board. Pay the doctors what they get paid, pay the employees of the health industry what is negotiated like any other industry, pay executives what they negotiate. But at the end of the day, Healthcare should not be about corporate profit to stock holders.
Any profits should be redistributed to the payers based on a percentage of their share of the "profits", not to stock holders.
Ive never understood a for-profit, corporate model for the healthcare industry. That seems a very...diabolical thinking. You get rich when people get sick? Your company is traded on the NYSE and your main business is health insurance?! Shit like that, no examples.
Because we live in Disney land in which the only thing preventing us from the happy utopian ending are a set of evil cartoon caricatures who are greedily keeping the blessings of state run health care from the masses.
Lest we forget the standard egoist use of the state by politicians and 'reformers' to affirm their personal goodness.
In a sense we do have a localized system (by state) and it's part of the problem. That's one of the few good ideas McCain had, to do away with individual state requirements and set some national health insurance policy requirements so that insurance companies could come up with policies and market them to everyone in the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by sam1617
Interesting how Massachusetts is used as the poster child for how effective the new healthcare system will be...
Quote:
TABLE 3. INDIVIDUAL MARKET, AVERAGE ANNUAL PREMIUMS BY STATE - SINGLE COVERAGE, 2006-2007
State Average Annual Premium
Massachusetts $8,537
New Jersey $5,326
New York $4,734
Rhode Island $4,412
Pennsylvania $3,949
Maine $3,686
Louisiana $3,377
New Hampshire $3,368
New Mexico $3,362
Connecticut $3,326
Nevada $3,118
North Carolina $3,080
South Carolina $2,981
Florida $2,949
South Dakota $2,914
Montana $2,866
Texas $2,782
Wyoming $2,688
National $2,613
Arizona $2,591
California $2,565
West Virginia $2,540
Colorado $2,537
Kentucky $2,537
Missouri $2,518
Nebraska $2,505
Indiana $2,504
Illinois $2,499
Ohio $2,498
Mississippi $2,489
Oklahoma $2,435
Minnesota $2,424
Georgia $2,419
Kansas $2,363
Virginia $2,359
Delaware $2,346
North Dakota $2,316
Tennessee $2,221
Maryland $2,208
Alabama $2,208
Iowa $2,202
Arkansas $2,153
Washington $2,015
Idaho $2,006
Michigan $1,878
Utah $1,574
Oregon $1,297
Wisconsin $1,254
Source: America’s Health Insurance Plans.
Note: Results from Alaska and the District of Columbia, where the responding companies reported fewer than 500 policies in force,
are included in the national totals but are not reported separately.
http://www.ahipresearch.org/pdfs/Ind...ember_2007.pdf
I hope that we can start a domino chain of socialized services so that my children can sit on their asses at their state-assigned job or housing unit and get fed/watered/educated/medicated by big brother while paying their 75% tax rate to keep it all going.
I assume this is what the insured pays (ie the employee), not the insurer (ie the employer).Quote:
Michigan $1,878
Because if this is to say how much an annual costfor health insurance is, they are clearly making shit up.
It costs my company $1109 a month for a family. Of which, the employee supplements $60 a week for (~$240 a month, depending on how many weeks).
And therein lies the true point of these proposed, allegedly benevolent actions by the state. The masses are easier to control the more dependent they are on the state. Instead of a society of free, responsible individuals, we shall have one of dependent, irresponsible children.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabar
Not to mention that we will have our lives run by a special group who regard human life not just on par with other animal life, but as a lower class species. Except for their own enlightened asses, of course.
Classicism of another variety runs straight through all of these grand social policy schemes, but the mass is too stupid to figure out, and will gladly trade more of their liberty for free excrement.
Reduced cost. Tort reform.
It's the avg single coverage premium. Texas avg. is $2782/yr, I pay $3264/yr to cover my wife and myself. Seems about right to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign
I put the link to the pdf if you wat to read the whole thing. It has avg annual Family coverage at $4118 in Michigan.
To start: I simply want people whose jobs do not provide health insurance coverage to be able to buy into a program that is not profit-driven.
Per year?Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
Thats saying it costs the insured (ie the employee) $4118 on avergae per year for their family coverage?
This is an average?
So wait...
You pay $3264 a year for Two Person insurance?! What the fucking fuck?! I'd have to think your employer is covering the rest, yes?
Im not specifying you, SnakeBoy, so dont take it this way.
I am pretty close to scanning my insurance bill as an employer for this thread.
Those average are fucking stupid and not even close to average. That, or I am getting balled by HAP....yes, HAP, the single worst insurance a company can offer. We just went through a re-up process, too.
We had 4 carriers come in to quote, HAP was still by far the cheapest for moderately good coverage.
Thats $272 a month. For two person coverage.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign
Someone is paying the rest of the bill, because the rest of the bill is 2x that amount at least.
No we both work on a contract basis so that's the total cost $272/month. Well, we have a $1500 deductible so I guess you would add that to our total healthcare cost. Actually it would only be $1005 ($1500 - 33%) more since we have a tax free MSA that we put the $1500 into each year.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign
Strange thing is in 5 years the most I've ever paid out of pocket was $270. The docs usually settle for whatever insurance pays. I just started allergy shots ad the serum was $4200. The office manager actually told me "they can't say they will only accept whatever insurance pays because that is technically insurance fraud so they HAVE to send me a bill but there is no due date for payment unnndeerstand wink wink".
We used to pay almost double that with Assurant then we shopped around and changed plans. Good coverage, we can see any Dr. we want, and if we want to go to a specialist we just go (no need to see a primary care Dr. first).
Well, I'm in New Jersey... number two in that list. :depressed
i think they should make it compulsory 1% across the board on all taxable income, and 2% if you earn too much....
just like in australia its 1% across the board..if you earn over 100k you pay 2%, if you dont wanna be penalise the extra 1% then go get private health care and only force to pay 1% only. You still get to claim a tax rebate on ur private healthcare subscription and other medical related expenses.
The problem is there is too many ppl freeloading the system and overusing it...and if you have an aging population like baby boomers...then it just clogs up the system cause they use the resource to much
Holy. Shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
2 person coverage from HAP at our company is $832.60 per month.
I like stuff that costs zero.
We used to have Humana, then Principal and now we have Aetna. Under Principal, we paid 979.00 a month in premiums. Now under Aetna we pay 687.00 a month for a healthy and young family of myself, my spouse and our 2 kids.
We have 2,500/5,000 deductibles as well. So, we basically pay for all our health care throughout the year as well, since we have never reached the deducctibles yet.
So, 9,244 a year in insurance premiums has always been mind boggling. We need insurance reform. But, the reality is this bill doesn't come close to specifically addressing the problem. And, believe me, we don't want the government plan which will drive out competition and essentially leave us all with VA type quality healthcare. I mean if me, my spouse or child come down with cancer, I want the best treatment possible.
Also, I just had a small prescription filled at the pharmacy. The cost was 116.99, with my insurance, we got a 8 dollar discount to that cost. Pretty laughable. These same drugs would have cost $20 elsewhere. But, this bill does not really address this issue either.
Well you should shop around more DR. The assurant policy that was almost double we had around 5 years ago was actually the plan my wife's practice was providing for their employee's. Some physicians my wife wanted to didn't take that plan so she found some independent insurance lady who went through a gazillion plans. We settled on this one through Blue Cross/Blue Shield. It was a long process (took a few months), insurance lingo makes my head explode.
What is HAP?
I've got "free health care", being in the military, so I've got no strong dog in this fight. I'm for it merely based on 1) compassion and 2) the theories I've read that stating how much we spent on emergency room visits for diseases that we could've got earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursmania
The emergency room argument is also one reason why I'm in favor of increased immigration. Make it easier for them to become a citizen, or at least get a green card... that way they can start paying taxes! :D
In, my spouses practice, they all have to have the same plan. Problem is there are a few who have children with disabilities. My understanding was other partner's high use of the insurance plan increases our plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy