Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Well guess what? Lakers arent retiring Horry's number...they love the guy to death for what he did, he will always be remembered, and will likely get some type of tribute but he wont get his number retired. Also Rodman was the best defensive player of his time, best rebounder, etc and he has yet to have his number retired by the Bulls and it appears that it will never happen. IMO Rodman is even more deserving of the Bulls retiring his jersey than Bowen having the Spurs retire his.

Bowen was a huge part of our teams, no doubt...just like Horry was for the Lakers and Rodman was for the Bulls but at the end of the day they are still simply very good role players. Retiring their jerseys completely cheapens the act itself.

---

Who cares how other teams decide whose jersey gets retired. This is about the Spurs and how they decide. I think that Bowen's contributions to the Spurs and to the community over the past 8 years justify his jersey retirement, as do most posters.

The Spurs already set the precedent by retiring Avery's #, so you really cant deny Bruce at this point.

IMO neither should have been retired.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by El Jefe

Don't forget, Jordan's 23 is retired in Miami. If there were rules for this sort of thing, I'm pretty sure "Only players who have been on your roster" would be #1

---

No, that rule would be #2, the #1 rule would come from the same team though. The only other player's number that they have retired is . . . . . . . . Dan Marino's number. So the #1 rule would be "Only players who play the sport of basketball . . ."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

AJ was our general and hit the title-clinching shot in our first run, that title team got things rolling...he deserves to have his retired.

As for Bowen, I say no. Give him a tribute but having his jersey retired is too much for a player that although contributed was nothing out of this world.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.

---

:lmao:lmao

lmao at Avery :tu but Bruce :td

Once he retires, he should be considered having his jersey being hung up in the rafters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timtonymanu

Bowen deserves to have his jersey retired period. And those few nonbelievers need to stop their bullshit about Bowen being a "role" player. Just because he wasn't an all-star player doesn't mean that he hasn't earned a jersey retirement. He was very important to the Spurs title run in 03. His defense on Kobe was superb. And remember the 6 3 pointers he made one game. No Bowen in 03 = Lakers 4peat. 05, Bowen completely harassed Ray Allen and Shawn Marion and did an excellent job against Rip. He did the clutch block on Billups. 07, Bowen made LeBron disappear. He also did great at defending Nash. Bruce has also done alot for the community. He is a true Spur at heart. Right now, so many Spurs fans want him back even if he's old as hell.

And fkla, you're an idiot if you think Avery deserves a jersey retirement over Bruce. So one winning shot > defense that lead to three titles. Btw, i think Elliott's shot did it for the Spurs in 99. Anyways, Tim, Manu, Tony, and Bruce all deserve a jersey retirement. If Bowen was just a "role" player, he would have been gone a long time ago. But he was worth so much that his jersey should be raised. No question.

---

Could u be any more biased against AJ? I dont know if people are pissed off that he coached the Mavs for a while or what, but are yall forgetting that AJ holds the Spurs all-time assist record?Sure he was nothing special in every other aspect of the game, but thats pretty much Bowen as well...great at defense but sorry at everything else. But to be honest the only reason I agree with AJ being up there is because he was first and foremost the general of our FIRST title team, the fact that he hit the clinching shot is just even more reason and not the sole reason. The first of everything always holds sentimental value, it got the ball rolling...if we dont win the first one who knows how things play out. Just recently there have been great teams that never won a title (Utah Jazz, Kings, Mavs of a couple of yrs ago, etc). Also u want to talk about Bowen's involvement in the community, which I completely agree was awesome...AJ was right up there as well.

As for Bruce's contributions, noone is denying that...of course he played a role in our titles noone is denying that. But than again so did Malik in our early titles, very versatile defender as well and an even more polished offensive player. Great with the community as well...I'll remember these guys for what they did and appreciate it but I dont think theyre deserving of a jersey retirement. Like I said Kerr and Rodman were huge for the Bulls, Horry and Fisher huge for the Lakers and none of those four players are getting their jersey's retired. Retiring a jersey is not something u do to honor every single role player that played a big part in your sucess...the act should be reserved for players that are the big reason your team had sucess (Duncan, Parker, Manu).

You kept bringing up Kerr on the Bulls, but he played an average of around 23 mpg in the regular season, and about 19 in the playoffs. While he was great at his role as a 3 pt shooter, he wasn't vital the Bulls' success. Bowen played heavy minutes on the Spurs, averaging over 30 a game. His defense on Richard Jefferson in 03, Nash and Lebron James in 07, and Ray Allen, Nash and Chauncey Billups in 05 allowed the Spurs to beat these teams. Bowen didn't just contribute, he was vital to the success. If you haven't already done so, I suggest you rewatch all those playoff games with Bowen essentially shutting down the oppositions offense.

Malik Rose can't even be compared to Bruce Bowen on the defensive end. Was he ever 1st defensive team? Forget it, how about 2nd team? Was he ever in place to stop players like Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Richard Jefferson, Jason Kidd, Lebron James? In other words, was Malik Rose ever counted on to put the clamps on the player responsible for the other team's offense?

Rodman was a nutcase, and one of the major reasons his number wasn't retired.

You ragged on Bowen about doing one thing and only one thing well, and that was defense. First off, it's wrong, Bowen was a fantastic 3 pt shooter and plays very well within the constructs of the offense. Second, Avery Johnson was about as one-dimensional as Bowen.

Bruce was a key part of the core group of players from the greatest years in the history of the franchise.

His jersey retirement is a no-brainer.


Next.

:cooldevil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ambchang

You kept bringing up Kerr on the Bulls, but he played an average of around 23 mpg in the regular season, and about 19 in the playoffs. While he was great at his role as a 3 pt shooter, he wasn't vital the Bulls' success. Bowen played heavy minutes on the Spurs, averaging over 30 a game. His defense on Richard Jefferson in 03, Nash and Lebron James in 07, and Ray Allen, Nash and Chauncey Billups in 05 allowed the Spurs to beat these teams. Bowen didn't just contribute, he was vital to the success. If you haven't already done so, I suggest you rewatch all those playoff games with Bowen essentially shutting down the oppositions offense.

---

Yea Kerr was a great shooter for them and nothing special in every other aspect, same with Bowen...great on defense nothing special in everything else. But whatever if u want to scratch Kerr of the list because of his minutes than go ahead...the Horry, Fisher, and Rodman comparisons are still there and are a very valid point.

And Ive watched every single game from the Spurs over the last 15 yrs, I saw what Bowen has done...how he contained, not shut down, some huge stars. Im not discrediting what he did simply saying that that doesnt warrant his jersey being retired.

Quote:

---

Malik Rose can't even be compared to Bruce Bowen on the defensive end. Was he ever 1st defensive team? Forget it, how about 2nd team? Was he ever in place to stop players like Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Richard Jefferson, Jason Kidd, Lebron James? In other words, was Malik Rose ever counted on to put the clamps on the player responsible for the other team's offense?

---

Im not comparing him, just saying that Malik was a very versatile defender as well...dude could D up Shaq one series and Dirk out on the perimeter the next. And he was much more polished offensively, Bruce was exclusively a corner 3-point shooter and was a liability with his FT shooting. Malik was a huge part of our first two titles especially 2003.

Quote:

---

Rodman was a nutcase, and one of the major reasons his number wasn't retired.

You ragged on Bowen about doing one thing and only one thing well, and that was defense. First off, it's wrong, Bowen was a fantastic 3 pt shooter and plays very well within the constructs of the offense. Second, Avery Johnson was about as one-dimensional as Bowen.

---

Thats simply specualtion on your part, personally I think it has more to do with the fact that unlike u guys they actually value what retiring a jersey signifies...Jordan and Pippen will have theirs hung up. Why? Because although Rodman was a vital part of that team, just like Bowen was for the Spurs, Jordan and Pippen were what made the sucess possible just like Tim, Tony, and Manu made it possible for the Spurs.

A fantastic corner 3-pt shooter, that was often times a liability on offense with his lack of handles and poor FT shooting...and yes I agree that AJ was one-dimensional. Did you need read my previous post as to why I agree AJ's jersey should be hung up there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

Bruce was a key part of the core group of players from the greatest years in the history of the franchise.

His jersey retirement is a no-brainer.


Next.

:cooldevil

---

:repost:

yeah if aj/elliott can get in soo can bowen. their all spurs for life and were vital on the floor to championship teams and in the community.

im not going to nit pic and say only gervin,timmy and dave belong each case is unique

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

I know what he did, it was vital yes...just as Malik's play off the bench was vital in our other title yrs. But he was average on the offensive end, sometimes even a liability. And as much as I love Bruce, he wasnt a stopper cause guys like Kobe always got their points...he made them work hard yes and probably played them better than anyone else. But those guys got their points regardless.

Should Malik have his jersey retired?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Bowen wasnt even the best defender on his team the past 8 yrs.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

I only agree with AJs jersey retirement for the simple fact that it was the first title and it got the ball rolling...without that first title who knows how things play out. If AJ wouldve done what he did in any other title year I wouldnt be in favor of his jersey retirement because there's no disputing that he was an average player.

Bowen was great for us, but at the end of the day still a one-dimensional role player. Malike played a vital role in some of our other runs as well, that doesnt mean he should get his jersey retired.

I honeslty hope the Spurs dont decide to retire Bowen's jersey. It would completely cheapen the retirement of jerseys.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

So should the Bulls retire Rodman's jersey? The Lakers Fisher's or Fox's?

Come on man, I love Bruce too...but open your damn eyes he was a one-dimensional role player. Great organizations dont just retire the jerseys of everyone that plays a role in a title. This is completely stupid and people are being blinded by the love they have for Bruce.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

I know what he did, it was vital yes...just as Malik's play off the bench was vital in our other title yrs. But he was average on the offensive end, sometimes even a liability. And as much as I love Bruce, he wasnt a stopper cause guys like Kobe always got their points...he made them work hard yes and probably played them better than anyone else. But those guys got their points regardless.

Should Malik have his jersey retired?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Bowen wasnt even the best defender on his team the past 8 yrs.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

I only agree with AJs jersey retirement for the simple fact that it was the first title and it got the ball rolling...without that first title who knows how things play out. If AJ wouldve done what he did in any other title year I wouldnt be in favor of his jersey retirement because there's no disputing that he was an average player.

Bowen was great for us, but at the end of the day still a one-dimensional role player. Malike played a vital role in some of our other runs as well, that doesnt mean he should get his jersey retired.

I honeslty hope the Spurs dont decide to retire Bowen's jersey. It would completely cheapen the retirement of jerseys.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Not a bigger role, but an equal role or at the very least very close to an equal role...people praise Bowen for guarding players as small and quick as Nash than the next series guarding players as big and explosive as Lebron. Are u guys forgetting some of the players Malik D'd up? The dude would stand his ground against fucken Shaq, who had like 5 inches and who knows how many pounds on him. Than go out and guard guys like Dirk out on the perimeter the next series. He was also a much more polished offensive player than Bowen ever was, u bring up his 7 treys against LA in 2003 and I remind u of Malik's 20+ points off the bench against the Nets that same year. I think people forget how important Malik was as well.

Malik deserves a huge tribute, as does Bruce but thats it. Having the Spurs retire Bruce's jersey would be the equivalent of the Lakers retiring Fisher's or Rick Fox's...its laughable.



Are the Bulls's retiring Rodman's jersey?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

How hilarious would it be if the Lakers retired Fisher's jersey?

That is exactly how idiotic it would be to retire Bowen's. Spurs would and should get ridiculed for it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Well guess what? Lakers arent retiring Horry's number...they love the guy to death for what he did, he will always be remembered, and will likely get some type of tribute but he wont get his number retired. Also Rodman was the best defensive player of his time, best rebounder, etc and he has yet to have his number retired by the Bulls and it appears that it will never happen. IMO Rodman is even more deserving of the Bulls retiring his jersey than Bowen having the Spurs retire his.

Bowen was a huge part of our teams, no doubt...just like Horry was for the Lakers and Rodman was for the Bulls but at the end of the day they are still simply very good role players. Retiring their jerseys completely cheapens the act itself.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

I know what he did, it was vital yes...just as Malik's play off the bench was vital in our other title yrs. But he was average on the offensive end, sometimes even a liability. And as much as I love Bruce, he wasnt a stopper cause guys like Kobe always got their points...he made them work hard yes and probably played them better than anyone else. But those guys got their points regardless.

Should Malik have his jersey retired?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Bowen wasnt even the best defender on his team the past 8 yrs.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

I only agree with AJs jersey retirement for the simple fact that it was the first title and it got the ball rolling...without that first title who knows how things play out. If AJ wouldve done what he did in any other title year I wouldnt be in favor of his jersey retirement because there's no disputing that he was an average player.

Bowen was great for us, but at the end of the day still a one-dimensional role player. Malike played a vital role in some of our other runs as well, that doesnt mean he should get his jersey retired.

I honeslty hope the Spurs dont decide to retire Bowen's jersey. It would completely cheapen the retirement of jerseys.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Not a bigger role, but an equal role or at the very least very close to an equal role...people praise Bowen for guarding players as small and quick as Nash than the next series guarding players as big and explosive as Lebron. Are u guys forgetting some of the players Malik D'd up? The dude would stand his ground against fucken Shaq, who had like 5 inches and who knows how many pounds on him. Than go out and guard guys like Dirk out on the perimeter the next series. He was also a much more polished offensive player than Bowen ever was, u bring up his 7 treys against LA in 2003 and I remind u of Malik's 20+ points off the bench against the Nets that same year. I think people forget how important Malik was as well.

Malik deserves a huge tribute, as does Bruce but thats it. Having the Spurs retire Bruce's jersey would be the equivalent of the Lakers retiring Fisher's or Rick Fox's...its laughable.



Are the Bulls's retiring Rodman's jersey?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

How hilarious would it be if the Lakers retired Fisher's jersey?

That is exactly how idiotic it would be to retire Bowen's. Spurs would and should get ridiculed for it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Spurs are the 4th most winningnest franchise in basketball in regards to titles...behind the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls. There are standards for retiring jerseys and even moreso if you are one of the best franchises in the NBA's history. We cant just be retiring every single great role player's, that shit is ridiculous and cheapens the act.

You think the Lakers are retiring Fisher's and Horry's? You think the Bulls are retiring Kerr's or Rodman's? Those player played just as huge of roles on their respective teams as did Bowen on the Spurs. We should thank Bruce, always remember him, and tribute him but thats it. He does not deserve to have his jersey retired.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Which is why I clearly said in regards to titles...Bulls have 6 fyi.



AJ was the general of the 99' team homie, he was the point guard and ran the show...he wasnt just some 'scrub that hit a lucky shot'. With that said he was indeed an average player and I would be against his jersey retirement if it wasnt for the fact that he played a huge role in our very FIRST title. Winning the first title got the ball rolling for us, if we dont win that one who knows how things play out. The first of everything is usually very sentimental for everyone that is the only reason AJ's number is up there.

Again I ask u...Rodman and Kerr were equally as importan to the Bulls as Bowen to us, Fisher and Horry equally as important as Bowen to us. They arent getting their jerseys retired by those team, why should we? Look Bowen was great for the Spurs and he deserves tons of recognition noone is denying that, retiring a jersey though signifies alot though. And role players, regardless of how good they are do not deserve such a recognition.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

I know what he did, it was vital yes...just as Malik's play off the bench was vital in our other title yrs. But he was average on the offensive end, sometimes even a liability. And as much as I love Bruce, he wasnt a stopper cause guys like Kobe always got their points...he made them work hard yes and probably played them better than anyone else. But those guys got their points regardless.

Should Malik have his jersey retired?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Bowen wasnt even the best defender on his team the past 8 yrs.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

I only agree with AJs jersey retirement for the simple fact that it was the first title and it got the ball rolling...without that first title who knows how things play out. If AJ wouldve done what he did in any other title year I wouldnt be in favor of his jersey retirement because there's no disputing that he was an average player.

Bowen was great for us, but at the end of the day still a one-dimensional role player. Malike played a vital role in some of our other runs as well, that doesnt mean he should get his jersey retired.

I honeslty hope the Spurs dont decide to retire Bowen's jersey. It would completely cheapen the retirement of jerseys.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Not a bigger role, but an equal role or at the very least very close to an equal role...people praise Bowen for guarding players as small and quick as Nash than the next series guarding players as big and explosive as Lebron. Are u guys forgetting some of the players Malik D'd up? The dude would stand his ground against fucken Shaq, who had like 5 inches and who knows how many pounds on him. Than go out and guard guys like Dirk out on the perimeter the next series. He was also a much more polished offensive player than Bowen ever was, u bring up his 7 treys against LA in 2003 and I remind u of Malik's 20+ points off the bench against the Nets that same year. I think people forget how important Malik was as well.

Malik deserves a huge tribute, as does Bruce but thats it. Having the Spurs retire Bruce's jersey would be the equivalent of the Lakers retiring Fisher's or Rick Fox's...its laughable.



Are the Bulls's retiring Rodman's jersey?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

How hilarious would it be if the Lakers retired Fisher's jersey?

That is exactly how idiotic it would be to retire Bowen's. Spurs would and should get ridiculed for it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Spurs are the 4th most winningnest franchise in basketball in regards to titles...behind the Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls. There are standards for retiring jerseys and even moreso if you are one of the best franchises in the NBA's history. We cant just be retiring every single great role player's, that shit is ridiculous and cheapens the act.

You think the Lakers are retiring Fisher's and Horry's? You think the Bulls are retiring Kerr's or Rodman's? Those player played just as huge of roles on their respective teams as did Bowen on the Spurs. We should thank Bruce, always remember him, and tribute him but thats it. He does not deserve to have his jersey retired.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Could u be any more biased against AJ? I dont know if people are pissed off that he coached the Mavs for a while or what, but are yall forgetting that AJ holds the Spurs all-time assist record?Sure he was nothing special in every other aspect of the game, but thats pretty much Bowen as well...great at defense but sorry at everything else. But to be honest the only reason I agree with AJ being up there is because he was first and foremost the general of our FIRST title team, the fact that he hit the clinching shot is just even more reason and not the sole reason. The first of everything always holds sentimental value, it got the ball rolling...if we dont win the first one who knows how things play out. Just recently there have been great teams that never won a title (Utah Jazz, Kings, Mavs of a couple of yrs ago, etc). Also u want to talk about Bowen's involvement in the community, which I completely agree was awesome...AJ was right up there as well.

As for Bruce's contributions, noone is denying that...of course he played a role in our titles noone is denying that. But than again so did Malik in our early titles, very versatile defender as well and an even more polished offensive player. Great with the community as well...I'll remember these guys for what they did and appreciate it but I dont think theyre deserving of a jersey retirement. Like I said Kerr and Rodman were huge for the Bulls, Horry and Fisher huge for the Lakers and none of those four players are getting their jersey's retired. Retiring a jersey is not something u do to honor every single role player that played a big part in your sucess...the act should be reserved for players that are the big reason your team had sucess (Duncan, Parker, Manu).

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Yea Kerr was a great shooter for them and nothing special in every other aspect, same with Bowen...great on defense nothing special in everything else. But whatever if u want to scratch Kerr of the list because of his minutes than go ahead...the Horry, Fisher, and Rodman comparisons are still there and are a very valid point.

And Ive watched every single game from the Spurs over the last 15 yrs, I saw what Bowen has done...how he contained, not shut down, some huge stars. Im not discrediting what he did simply saying that that doesnt warrant his jersey being retired.



Im not comparing him, just saying that Malik was a very versatile defender as well...dude could D up Shaq one series and Dirk out on the perimeter the next. And he was much more polished offensively, Bruce was exclusively a corner 3-point shooter and was a liability with his FT shooting. Malik was a huge part of our first two titles especially 2003.



Thats simply specualtion on your part, personally I think it has more to do with the fact that unlike u guys they actually value what retiring a jersey signifies...Jordan and Pippen will have theirs hung up. Why? Because although Rodman was a vital part of that team, just like Bowen was for the Spurs, Jordan and Pippen were what made the sucess possible just like Tim, Tony, and Manu made it possible for the Spurs.

A fantastic corner 3-pt shooter, that was often times a liability on offense with his lack of handles and poor FT shooting...and yes I agree that AJ was one-dimensional. Did you need read my previous post as to why I agree AJ's jersey should be hung up there?

---

FkLA: all your stupid posts, all bunched together.

im pretty sure you repeated yourself in every single post.

the beautiful thing is, that no matter what you think, bowen's jersey WILL be retired.

This *is* a forum for opinions, after all.

I suppose I'm a hardass, but I wouldn't have retired AJ's jersey, thought twice about Elliott, and definitely wouldn't retire Bowen's. But since Elliott and AJ already have their jerseys in the rafters, #12 will join them in the next few years.

As obnoxious and over-opinionated as FkLa is, I agree that retiring Bowen's jersey is like the Lakers retiring Fisher's jersey.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Which is why I clearly said in regards to titles...Bulls have 6 fyi.



AJ was the general of the 99' team homie, he was the point guard and ran the show...he wasnt just some 'scrub that hit a lucky shot'. With that said he was indeed an average player and I would be against his jersey retirement if it wasnt for the fact that he played a huge role in our very FIRST title. Winning the first title got the ball rolling for us, if we dont win that one who knows how things play out. The first of everything is usually very sentimental for everyone that is the only reason AJ's number is up there.

Again I ask u...Rodman and Kerr were equally as importan to the Bulls as Bowen to us, Fisher and Horry equally as important as Bowen to us. They arent getting their jerseys retired by those team, why should we? Look Bowen was great for the Spurs and he deserves tons of recognition noone is denying that, retiring a jersey though signifies alot though. And role players, regardless of how good they are do not deserve such a recognition.

---

With the Spurs going for #4 this year.....

I'm having a really hard time with your logic when you say the first one got the ball rolling. The 2003 team was vastly different than the 99 team. Add in the fact that some other team 3-peated in between.....

Clarify why you think the first one "got the ball rolling".

Bro u quoted each of my posts like 5 times, wtf haha.

And Im aware the decision isnt up to me, just as it isnt up to u...Im just hoping the Spurs arent actually stupid enough to do it. It would be idiotic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Agloco

With the Spurs going for #4 this year.....

I'm having a really hard time with your logic when you say the first one got the ball rolling. The 2003 team was vastly different than the 99 team. Add in the fact that some other team 3-peated in between.....

Clarify why you think the first one "got the ball rolling".

---

Kings, Jazz, Mavs from a few years ago...great teams that were never able to get over the hump and win a title. Getting the first one is always the hardest thing to do.

Bowen's a lock.
Personally though, I only think two should be retired, the Iceman & D-Rob...and then later Duncan, Ginobili and Parker.

He played a major role in 3 of our championships. He always drew the opposing team's best perimeter threat. He was the best defender on the best defensive team.

There's no doubt he'll get his jersey retired.

LOL @ these arguments..

How is Bowen getting retired the same as Fisher getting his jersey retired?!..apparently the anti-Bowen people didn't watch basketball outside of the Spurs..Bowen wasn't some guy that had the same effect as other random role players on other title teams, he was a league-wide elite defender..

Bowen was widely recognized as one of the best defenders, if not the best, in the entire NBA..I can't say the same for guys like Rick Fox and Derek Fisher, who have been mentioned, which is ridiculous..he was easily the best perimeter defender of the post-Jordan era..

all-NBA defensive 1st teams: 5, all in a row..
all-NBA defensive 2nd teams: 3, all in a row..
DPOY voting: 7th, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 4th..

Is there really any doubt?!..LOL..sad, really..

this isn't arguing about going into the HOF, it's about getting his jersey retired for his team..it's a no-brainer when he had a huge part in 3 rings, all while being the best perimeter defender in the NBA..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Bruce getting his jersey retired would honestly be ridiculous, it would completely cheapen the retiring of jerseys. Malik was vital in what 3? of our title teams as well, was the embodiment of a Spur, was just as big a part of the community as Bruce, loved the city just as much, etc.

Honor both of these guys with a tribute but thats it, cant believe some of u guys are actually in favor of retiring his jersey.

---

Malik only won 2 offically he wasn't in the post season roster of 2005 he was traded that year


Bowen.... yes retire his jersey 3 things stand out

The Kobe stoper in 2003

the crucial block on Billups in Game 7 sealed out 3rd
and was on Lebron jock strap all in the 2007 series to seal our 4th

if the NBA doesn't want to give him the props for DPOY then screw em....at least the franchise will

I think he was the "face"of the Spurs defensively in the years he played. He embodied the underdog who won out against the odds to grab the ultimate prize.. no doubt in my mind his number gets retired at some poiunt.

No doubt in my mind that #12 will be retired. Bruce was the Spurs' KC Jones. KC and Bruce played different positions, their personalities are almost polar opposities, but their contributions were a key part of their team's defensive prowess and identity.

There aren't many players who could average 7 ppg and have their numbers retired, unless you are KC Jones and Bruce Bowen. They helped slow down the opposition's perimeter scorers who are, or will be, hall of fame players. They won rings. Jones' #25 justifiably hangs in the rafters, as should Bruce's #12.

http://product.images.fansedge.com/35-88/35-88389-F.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Yea Kerr was a great shooter for them and nothing special in every other aspect, same with Bowen...great on defense nothing special in everything else. But whatever if u want to scratch Kerr of the list because of his minutes than go ahead...the Horry, Fisher, and Rodman comparisons are still there and are a very valid point.

---

Defense is not in the same category as shooting. Defense is comparable to offense, while shooting is only one aspect of shooting. You would have to equate one aspect of defense, say, boxing out, or fighting through screens, to shooting.
One thing you continue to harp on is that defense is all but a minor part of the game, something equivalent to shooting, or even as ridiculously as making one shot in the NBA finals. It is not. Defense is half the game. Bowen being exceptional on defense is equivalent to someone being exceptional in offense relative to their contributions on the court.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

And Ive watched every single game from the Spurs over the last 15 yrs, I saw what Bowen has done...how he contained, not shut down, some huge stars. Im not discrediting what he did simply saying that that doesnt warrant his jersey being retired.

---

And Avery Johnson deserved to have his jersey retired because of one shot?
I am also surprised that after watching more than 1300 games that you can’t see how Bowen’s single coverage of perimeter superstars allow the Spurs not to double team and let the team rotate on defense well while not getting lit up for 40 points a game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Im not comparing him, just saying that Malik was a very versatile defender as well...dude could D up Shaq one series and Dirk out on the perimeter the next. And he was much more polished offensively, Bruce was exclusively a corner 3-point shooter and was a liability with his FT shooting. Malik was a huge part of our first two titles especially 2003.

---

And Shaq and Dirk ate him alive. Besides, Robinson was the one guarding Shaq, and Bowen was the main guy guarding Dirk. The fact that Bowen couldn’t guard Dirk and Howard at the same time meant that the Spurs match up with the Mavs poorly. Shawn Marion can D up on point guards up to PFs, but I am never going to say that he is a great defender because of that. Being versatile and good are two different things. Bowen was versatile AND great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

Thats simply specualtion on your part, personally I think it has more to do with the fact that unlike u guys they actually value what retiring a jersey signifies...Jordan and Pippen will have theirs hung up. Why? Because although Rodman was a vital part of that team, just like Bowen was for the Spurs, Jordan and Pippen were what made the sucess possible just like Tim, Tony, and Manu made it possible for the Spurs.

---

And yours wasn’t speculation? How is it that yours is fact and mine is “simply speculation”?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FkLA

A fantastic corner 3-pt shooter, that was often times a liability on offense with his lack of handles and poor FT shooting...and yes I agree that AJ was one-dimensional. Did you need read my previous post as to why I agree AJ's jersey should be hung up there?

---

Because of one shot. Bowen also had championship winning stops on Chauncey Billups in game 5 of the 05 finals. Hey, Parker stopped Hamilton from hitting the Game 5 shot. Let’s retire Parker’s number because of that shot and not what he embodied and produced his entire career.
Let’s also retire Horry’s number as well. Hey, he had a whole solid quarter and 2 minutes in Game 5 of the 05 finals AND hit the game winning shot. Oh, sorry, I forgot, it wasn’t the first championship, so it’s worthless.

Bruce Bowen is proof positive that stats are overrated. His impact was huge.

The Spurs had a Big 4, not a Big 3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kori ellis

without question. I don't even think it will really be debated within the organization.

---

+1

no doubt, he deserves it