Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

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07-26-2009
jay014

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by superbigtime

Avery set the bar pretty low.

According to Ginobili it as fans who supported A.J.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/features/be...e_numbers.html
07-26-2009
superbigtime

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay014

According to Ginobili it as fans who supported A.J.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/features/be...e_numbers.html

Huh? Nice article there, but that doesn't have anything to do with Avery's number being retired. There were gobs of fans who disagreed with AJ's number retirement and who still dislike it. I think it was Pop who really pushed for it, and his reasons are not without merit. Anyway, this is getting off topic a bit. I think Bruce is very worthy of having his number up in the rafters, regardless of whether AJ is already up there. In a couple of years. Maybe retire some other numbers first. I'm just saying, if AJ is up there, there is less argument against retiring BB, IMO.
07-26-2009
superbigtime

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solid D

Over the course of 8 straight seasons (7 as a Spur), Bruce Bowen shared a list with star players decided by the 30 NBA Head Coaches.

Couldn't help but notice how many times Kobe is on those all defensive teams. yech
07-26-2009
Solid D

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by superbigtime

Couldn't help but notice how many times Kobe is on those all defensive teams. yech

Yep...and Tim Duncan and KG are on it every year.
07-26-2009
Johnny_Blaze_47

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by YODA

http://nbahoopsonline.com/teams/SanA...les/top20.html

Hoops has him as #15 all time spurs. He is only one on this list who won a championship who has not gotton his number retired.

Tim and Tony and Manu are already locks.

That site has no No. 16 and spelled it "Colby Deitrick."

Whatever it says can't be taken seriously.
07-26-2009
jay014

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

#16 Mike Gale.Combined with Bowen
07-26-2009
arkeen3

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Love Bruce but NO. He was/is a defensive specialist. He was a good three point shooter because he was so poor an offensive player other teams left him alone more often than not. He is not high profile outside of San Antonio but Avery became that with his stint in Dallas. I don't agree that AJ should be so honored and I don't think Bruce should be either. One wrong doesn't justify another.
07-26-2009
Solid D

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkeen3

Love Bruce but NO. He was/is a defensive specialist. He was a good three point shooter because he was so poor an offensive player other teams left him alone more often than not. He is not high profile outside of San Antonio but Avery became that with his stint in Dallas. I don't agree that AJ should be so honored and I don't think Bruce should be either. One wrong doesn't justify another.

Should a player that averaged 9.4 ppg, 7.4 apg, and 3 rpg and no championships and virtually no profile outside of San Antonio have his Spurs' number retired?
07-27-2009
jay014

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Should a player that averaged 6.5 ppg 3rpg 1.5 apg that rode along for 3 championships. He was a great defender on a great defensive team. To say without Bruce we only have one championship or one less is bullshit. Maybe Detroit doesn't win without Ben Wallace.

What would've happened had the Spurs kept Stephen Jackson? i'm not saying instead of Bowen but starting
07-27-2009
HarlemHeat37

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

So you guys really think that players that ONLY play offense should get their numbers retired, but players that only play defense shouldn't?..it really doesn't make any sense when you consider the level of the defensive player we're talking about here..
07-27-2009
BG_Spurs_Fan

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay014

Should a player that averaged 6.5 ppg 3rpg 1.5 apg that rode along for 3 championships. He was a great defender on a great defensive team. To say without Bruce we only have one championship or one less is bullshit. Maybe Detroit doesn't win without Ben Wallace.

What would've happened had the Spurs kept Stephen Jackson? i'm not saying instead of Bowen but starting

Rode along? You clearly haven't watched him play. Damn. Without Bruce we don't win in 2005 and 2007.
07-27-2009
jay014

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

So you guys really think that players that ONLY play offense should get their numbers retired, but players that only play defense shouldn't?..it really doesn't make any sense when you consider the level of the defensive player we're talking about here..

Defensive players whose jerseys aren't retired

Dennis Rodman Pistons? Back to back defensive player of the year along with nba titles.

Michael Cooper Lakers? Defensive player of the year 5x nba champion
07-27-2009
jay014

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan

Rode along?

I know wrong choice

Quote:

Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan

Without Bruce we don't win in 2005 and 2007.

Bullshit! :lobt::lobt: regardless
07-27-2009
sprrs

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FkLA

Dont even compare Bruce to Elliott...Sean was a very good player on both sides of the ball and dude played on one damn kidney for that 99' run. Thats just a dumb comparison.

You made the comparison not me. I just stated his accomplishments. Which are many. Very many.
07-27-2009
ambchang

Re: Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FkLA

There are also other aspect of defense u know? Shot blocking, rebounding, post-defense, etc...Bowen was great at perimeter defense and everything else that comes with that (fighting through screens). Im not trying to discredit Bowen but there are aspects on defense in which he was nothing special.

Did I ever say that Bowen was great at all aspects of defense? It is simply a ridiculous assumption to say that one person is great at every single aspect of defense. As great as Robinson and Olajuwon was at defense, they were not great at every single aspect of defense.
And I find it curious that you listed the big man aspects of defense when you are evaluating a rail thin 6’7” small forward. That is like saying Tim Duncan is not a good 3 pt shooter, and there are aspects on offense in which Duncan was nothing special at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FkLA

No, re-read my posts...it was not because of one shot. It was first and foremost because he was the general of that first title team, he ran the show. The fact that he made the title-clinching shot and is our all-time leader in assists is even more reason. Do you have any idea how tough it is to win the first one? Ask the Jazz of the late 90s, the Kings of the early 2000s, or even the Mavs of a few yrs ago. All great teams that never won a title.

Seriously, I don’t. I would imagine it is very very hard, but I don’t. I would also imagine winning the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th are also very hard. Are you trying to say that winning the 2003, 2005 and 2007 championships are somehow less difficult than the 99 championship?
And why would I ask teams who couldn’t win a championship how hard it is to win a championship? They probably don’t know either.
Finally, you are basically saying that Avery Johnson deserves it because he was the starting point guard. What does that have to do with it? Watch the 99 team, the offense goes through the twin towers. The leadership was shared by Avery Johnson and David Robinson (as captains), Mario Elie brought the fire. To say that Avery Johnson ran the show on the 99 team was misleading at the very least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FkLA

I am aware of what Bruce brought to the table, it was great defense indeed...but I dont think that warrants his jersey retirement. He was a role player, a very vital one, but a role player nontheless. He played a big role in our titles noone is denying that. But so did Rodman and Kerr for the Bulls and Fisher and Horry for the Lakers, stars need role players and its great when they step up. The role players deserve praise but ultimately what make these championships possible are the stars (MJ, Pipp, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Parker, Manu).I dont see why the Spurs should have such low standards for jersey retirements compared to other teams.

Avery Johnson was a role player too. Did you mistook him for a superstar?
And saying that players are the same because they are role players is just blind. Take the 2003 team, Stephen Jackson was a role player on that team. Compare him, to say Kevin Willis, who was also a role player. Their contributions were certainly quite different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FkLA

Shaq was the most dominant big man during that time, Dirk has always been unstoppable...what do u expect Malik to shut them down? No, he didnt because that is pretty much impossible. The best u can hope for is to make those superstars work hard which Malik did. Bowen never stopped Kobe or anyone of his caliber, cause guys like that get their points regardless of who is guarding them. Bruce simply made him work hard.

Comparing Rose’s defense on Shaq and Dirk to the defense Bowen played on Kobe is simply laughable. Bowen was the primary defender on Kobe Bryant almost every time, Malik, was at best, a bit defender on Shaq and Dirk, and most time as the double teamer.
I took Kobe Bryant's stats vs. Bowen since the 2002-03 season, because they played more head to head games since due to Bowen being on the Spurs and playing each other more during the playoffs.
Kobe Bryant scores 27.2 ppg and shot 42.6%, 6.9 FTA and only 28.6% from 3 pt land against Bowen.

Between 2002 and 2009, Kobe Bryant scored an average of 28.73 points on 45.46% from the field, with 8.78 FTA and 32.5% from 3 pt land. Bryant shot a lower % with less FTA against Bowen, who, from 2002 to at least 2004, was only single covering Bryant, while Bryant scored more points, at a better %, with more FTA against other teams, who mostly double or even triple teams him. And you are trying to argue Bowen defense on Bryant had minimal results and simply made him work hard?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FkLA

Just take a look at the players' whose number the Bulls have retired, I think my speculation has a lot more basis...they dont retire just any players jersey.

I don’t think the Bulls are retiring Bowen’s numbers either, I don’t think Bowen deserves that.
EDIT: Do you know why Jerry Sloan had his # retired?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FkLA

No not because of one shot, I explained this earlier in the post. Your comparisons are completely idiotic.

Why is that? You put such ridiculously high value on one shot by Avery Johnson. Why are last minute championship winning defensive plays not important?

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