Possible targets with the Bonner+ Finley (+ Mason + Willams + X) package

Like a lot of us said, looks like the F.O. is preparing for the last big-move.
With the package we have I see the possible targets in :

1) Stephen Jackson.

Plus Reasons : Good perimeter defender, rebounder and three point shooter
Minus reasons : His contract - and maybe still loose too many balls and wants the ball too much


2) Cory Maggette.
Plus reasons : a real slasher - the only one that could be a real alter ego of Manu in case we need to create from nowhere
Minus reasons : His contract and, till now, his attitude (but looks like he's in good feeling with our plaers...so who knows ?)


3) Andreas Nocioni
Plus reasons : Good rebounder and perimeter shooter - The skills of Matt Bonner plus real Cojones - His nationality (good temper and Manu would like to have another argentine on team, now that fabri is gone), his contract (decreasing Money every year)
Minus reasons : with Haislip already on team, maybe we need more a two-three than a three - four


4) Mike Miller
Plus reasons : the best shooter and rebounder of the lot - Expiring contract after this year
Minus reasons : defense - Play off performance


5) Raja Bell
Plus : maybe the best perimeter defender of the lot - Three point shooting -
Nationality (same of Tim)
Minus : age - decreasing performances (also on defense) -

any opinions ?

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Originally Posted by venitian navigator

Like a lot of us said, looks like the F.O. is preparing for the last big-move.
With the package we have I see the possible targets in :

1) Stephen Jackson.

Plus Reasons : Good perimeter defender, rebounder and three point shooter
Minus reasons : His contract - and maybe still loose too many balls and wants the ball too much


2) Cory Maggette.
Plus reasons : a real slasher - the only one that could be a real alter ego of Manu in case we need to create from nowhere
Minus reasons : His contract and, till now, his attitude (but looks like he's in good feeling with our plaers...so who knows ?)


3) Andreas Nocioni
Plus reasons : Good rebounder and perimeter shooter - The skills of Matt Bonner plus real Cojones - His nationality (good temper and Manu would like to have another argentine on team, now that fabri is gone), his contract (decreasing Money every year)
Minus reasons : with Haislip already on team, maybe we need more a two-three than a three - four


4) Mike Miller
Plus reasons : the best shooter and rebounder of the lot - Expiring contract after this year
Minus reasons : defense - Play off performance


5) Raja Bell
Plus : maybe the best perimeter defender of the lot - Three point shooting -
Nationality (same of Tim)
Minus : age - decreasing performances (also on defense) -

any opinions ?

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Jackson- I would absolutely love him back, but his contract isn't Spur-friendly right now.

Maggette, why would we need him when we have Jefferson?

Nocioni- We all know most of us would love him here. This could be a possibility, but probably not.

Mike Miller- Why would the Wizards want to ship him off for a package of Bonner, Finley, and Williams? Sure, his deal is expiring, but if I were their GM, I'd rather have Miller on the team with an expiring contract than the 3 Spurs mentioned. Washington would be stupid to do that trade.

Bell- Raja Bell seems the only realistic option on your list.

I think another option is to look into trades with teams that have large trade exceptions, and we have a player who can fill a need, and then look at teams that want to cut payroll. E.g., the Clippers have a ~7.5 million dollar TE. Mason To the Clips, who have a hole at back up SG

Gives them:
Baron Telfair
Gordon Mason
Thornton
Griffin/Camby/Smith
Camby/Kaman/Jordan

Still need a backup SF, but 1 hole is filled.

Then look at teams with guys we'd like(who are looking to cut money) and we could get a ~8 million dollar guy for Bonner, saving them $5m(or $10m) If they're over the tax.
That guy is definitely gonna be a 2/3 or pure 3 guy, such as Battier, Bell, Jackson etc. Or look at teams that are looking for more capspace for 2010, such as Chicago

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

We'd need to include a pick to make it work, but Salmons would make our top 8 better, Chicago gets even more space for 2010(Could get even more if they swapped Hinrich for Blake & Outlaw(if Portland would do that)).

Also looking at teams who are looking to open up space for guys to play, Golden State trading SJax to open up space for A Randolph, Houston trading Battier to get PT for Ariza(Though they don't have to). Most other guys have been discussed, but looking for Big TE and teams that need to cut money is a good option.

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Originally Posted by venitian navigator

Like a lot of us said, looks like the F.O. is preparing for the last big-move.
With the package we have I see the possible targets in :

1) Stephen Jackson.

Plus Reasons : Good perimeter defender, rebounder and three point shooter
Minus reasons : His contract - and maybe still loose too many balls and wants the ball too much


2) Cory Maggette.
Plus reasons : a real slasher - the only one that could be a real alter ego of Manu in case we need to create from nowhere
Minus reasons : His contract and, till now, his attitude (but looks like he's in good feeling with our plaers...so who knows ?)


3) Andreas Nocioni
Plus reasons : Good rebounder and perimeter shooter - The skills of Matt Bonner plus real Cojones - His nationality (good temper and Manu would like to have another argentine on team, now that fabri is gone), his contract (decreasing Money every year)
Minus reasons : with Haislip already on team, maybe we need more a two-three than a three - four


4) Mike Miller
Plus reasons : the best shooter and rebounder of the lot - Expiring contract after this year
Minus reasons : defense - Play off performance


5) Raja Bell
Plus : maybe the best perimeter defender of the lot - Three point shooting -
Nationality (same of Tim)
Minus : age - decreasing performances (also on defense) -

any opinions ?

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Personally, I don't think that this move portends another big move. You can't just change your entire team and think that you will just gel because you have more talent. Especially in the Spurs complicated defensive schemes. We already have more than enough newbies to acclimate to the system. Also, if you trade Finley and Mason you leave the wing position very thin. Still, if you could pick up SJax who knows the system already and can play the 3 as well as the 2 that would give you a rotation of RJ, Manu and SJax at the wings with Hairston, Hill and then probably McClinton filling in some minutes--that would be scary good.

i keep hearing Raja Bell's defense took a backwards step. i don't know whether that's true or not, but i'm fairly certain that even regressed Bell-defense is way better than Mason's. if there's a way to get Bell by giving up Finley (or Mason Jr.) and Bonner, than the Spurs should do it. i would hate going to war with the Lakers without having a defensive-minded player to guard Kobe. i think a player like that is the only missing piece of the puzzle for this team. but, who knows? maybe Malik Hairston can be that guy. aren't the Spurs trying to mold him into a defensive player? guess we'll have to see...

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Originally Posted by venitian navigator

Like a lot of us said, looks like the F.O. is preparing for the last big-move.
With the package we have I see the possible targets in :

1) Stephen Jackson.

Plus Reasons : Good perimeter defender, rebounder and three point shooter
Minus reasons : His contract - and maybe still loose too many balls and wants the ball too much


2) Cory Maggette.
Plus reasons : a real slasher - the only one that could be a real alter ego of Manu in case we need to create from nowhere
Minus reasons : His contract and, till now, his attitude (but looks like he's in good feeling with our plaers...so who knows ?)


3) Andreas Nocioni
Plus reasons : Good rebounder and perimeter shooter - The skills of Matt Bonner plus real Cojones - His nationality (good temper and Manu would like to have another argentine on team, now that fabri is gone), his contract (decreasing Money every year)
Minus reasons : with Haislip already on team, maybe we need more a two-three than a three - four


4) Mike Miller
Plus reasons : the best shooter and rebounder of the lot - Expiring contract after this year
Minus reasons : defense - Play off performance


5) Raja Bell
Plus : maybe the best perimeter defender of the lot - Three point shooting -
Nationality (same of Tim)
Minus : age - decreasing performances (also on defense) -

any opinions ?

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Jax - ship sailed in 2003. Pass

Maggette - we just traded for a player 1000X better than he can ever dream of being

Noc - I'd do it in a heartbeat

Miller - I'd rather keep Finley/Mason over him

Bell - A possibility but I'd rather trade a Finley/Bonner combo vs. a Mason/Bonner combo for him.

I don't get the obsession of trading Mason from some of the posters here.

I don't see why Charlotte would trade Bell.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I don't see why Charlotte would trade Bell.

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so michael finley can be with his idol...jordan

I still like the trade for Battier which has been mentioned too many times.

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Originally Posted by Sdayi135

I don't get the obsession of trading Mason from some of the posters here.

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well I wouldn't call it obsession, when it's in fact thinking about realistic scenario's. at this point a package of Finley and Bonner is less attractive for most teams, than a package of Mason and Bonner. end of story. in Mason a team gets a SG in his prime, who could fill the role of a shooting specialist for several years to come.

Keep Mason...

Nocioni and Bell neither is superior to Fin so it makes no sense to offer Fin for them, and Spurs haven't got any more garbage contract to fill in this deal. Corey and Miller are both too expensive to match even though they can be upgrades for Spurs. Captain Jack is the only acquirable player on the list and can be had for the package of Fin, Mason and some fillers if needed.

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Originally Posted by mountainballer

well I wouldn't call it obsession, when it's in fact thinking about realistic scenario's. at this point a package of Finley and Bonner is less attractive for most teams, than a package of Mason and Bonner. end of story. in Mason a team gets a SG in his prime, who could fill the role of a shooting specialist for several years to come.

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I would put money on none of them being traded. This is wild accusation.

The FO better be very careful with trading Mason. They must get a SG back if that's the case, and it better be a great deal. Mason should really light things up this year since he'll be the 4th option when he's on the floor, and he's a deadly shooter.

But with the Ratliff signing, all the roster spots are full, with 7 big men. The Spurs are probably one wing or PG short of a full roster, so I see why something might be in the works.

I don't see any trades for the time being. After the season starts and the Spurs have a better feel for who is fitting in where, and for who's not fitting in, then the Spurs will probably look to move someone out in a salary dump move to save some lux tax dollars. But as far as pulling off another trade to land some big name player, it's highly doubtful at this point.

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Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY

so michael finley can be with his idol...jordan

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What makes you think Finley's idol is in some kind of a hurry to add Finley to his team?

Here's my list for possible targets:
C.J. Miles, Matt Harpring, Nick Young, James Singleton, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Andreas Nocioni, Raja Bell, Jarvis Hayes, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Charlie Bell.

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Originally Posted by Rogue

Nocioni and Bell neither is superior to Fin so it makes no sense to offer Fin for them

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huh? you did realize that Finley declined from his Dallas days? at this point either Bell and Nocioni are far superior to him.

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Originally Posted by Seventyniner

The FO better be very careful with trading Mason. They must get a SG back if that's the case, and it better be a great deal. Mason should really light things up this year since he'll be the 4th option when he's on the floor, and he's a deadly shooter.

But with the Ratliff signing, all the roster spots are full, with 7 big men. The Spurs are probably one wing or PG short of a full roster, so I see why something might be in the works.

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Many seem tied up in the Finley/ Bonner trade scenario and try to justify their trade value worthy enough to bring in a ( Stephen Jackson, Raja Bell, Andres Nocioni, James Posey ect.)


I personally think in order for us to improve our 8-9 man rotation (or our team come playoff time) we will more than likely have to include Mason instead of Finley, due to the age and value factor in the two trading assets.

Many people seem to believe we would lose a lot by getting rid of Mason. I disagree and believe including Mason for Finley is the only way to improve our rotation ( 1-9).

Here's some reasoning :

- With the addition of a healthy Manu Ginobili and prolific scorer in his own right Richard Jefferson, Mason's opportunities will be cut drastically.

Yes many fans have pointed out Mason's shooting will be missed. With Finley back it won't be missed as much as you may think. Yes Mason had a great one dribble pull up on his pick and roll opportunities early in the season, when the defense was lazy or went under the screen nonchalantly. Hate to burst your Mason bubble, but those screen and roll opportunities won't be there next year.

- Mason will be used to spot up from three when Tim/ Parker/ Manu/ RJ are creating. Finley or trading for Bell, Nocioni,Posey can do that people. Mason won't be seeing anywhere close to the 30.4 mpg he got last year with RJ and Manu taking up 60 minutes that were available last year.

Not to mention Pop stating earlier in the off-season that Hill will get more time at the 2-spot. And don't forget Michael Finley either. Finley will get some run.

All this leads me to thinking, will Mason's shooting really be missed if his minutes were to be cut by 40 % ?? Something to think about.


I don't believe giving up Mason would be as detrimental to the Spurs as some may think, not only because of the PT and opportunity factor, but also by his liability on the defensive end ( one of the worst, if not the worst perimeter defender on the team last year.) This was one of the reason's Pop chose to go with Bowen and Hill against the Mavs since Mason's shot wasn't falling and he couldn't do anything else to help the team.


All in all, Spurs might think the best time to get anything significant for Bonner/ Mason is now. Given the fact that their opportunities will be decreased, and therefore their trade value may fall. Or they simply might not have plans to resign them after this season. Since the Spurs will more than likely be giving Manu an extension next year, would we be able to pony up 6 million per year for Mason too next year? I doubt it.

And since we gave Haislip a 2 year deal and with Splitter maybe on his way in 2010, would Spurs be willing to give out another 10 million contract to Bonner? I doubt it.


Just something to think about..

Man, I really hope we don't trade Roger Mason. He was a great Shooting Guard and he was amazing in the clutch. I really don't want to see him go. Trading him, Finley and Bonner for some swingman will change our Team too much and ruin too much of our chemistry.

I don't mind Bonner and Finley getting traded, just not Mason. We can trade Bonner and Finley for a good defensive minded Swingman off the Bench to help out Ginobili. Battier is perfect.

If we do end up trading Mason, we damn well better get a good SG in return. Someone who can knock down 3-pointers from everywhere and come through in the clutch, just like Mason. I would be incredibly pissed if we traded Mason for some old ass vet way passed his prime.

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Originally Posted by JustinJDW

Man, I really hope we don't trade Roger Mason. He was a great Shooting Guard and he was amazing in the clutch. I really don't want to see him go. Trading him, Finley and Bonner for some swingman will change our Team too much and ruin too much of our chemistry.

I don't mind Bonner and Finley getting traded, just not Mason. We can trade Bonner and Finley for a good defensive minded Swingman off the Bench to help out Ginobili.

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Mason is expendable. His minutes and shots will be cut drastically next year with Manu and R.J taking up 60-65 minutes that were Mason and Finley's last year. Not to mention Mason's contract is up next year and Spurs have the dilemma of resigning Manu.

Mason is also a one trick pony and can't defend worth a lick.

All that being said trading Mason/ Bonner will give us a better piece back in return than Bonner/ Finley.

Mason/ Bonner and a 1st should catch the attention towards the Hornets for James Posey/ Bobcats for Raja Bell/ Kings for Nocioni. I think those three would be the best fits for us in needed a defensive wing that can hit the 3 ball. We don't need a volume shooter like Stephen Jackson for instance or even Mason at times.

Other thoughts:

Considering how the Kings traded John Salmons and Brad Miller to Chicago for Nocioni's contract( instead of trading Salmons to the Spurs for expirings) makes me believe Kings are high on Nocioni and don't really mind his contract. That being said I think it would take more to get Nocioni from the Kings than the typical Finley/ Bonner scenario. Maybe Bonner/ Mason + 1st rounder would get him.

As for Raja Bell considering hes 34 years old and has an expiring contract ( and more than likely won't resign him after the year is over), the Bobcats might take back less than the Kings would. IE Bonner/ Finley 1st rounder or maybe just simply Bonner/ Mason no picks. They also have Larry Brown as a big part of their franchise so that also helps.

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Originally Posted by Sdayi135

Jax - ship sailed in 2003. Pass



I don't get the obsession of trading Mason from some of the posters here.

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It's not an obsession. It's more of thinking somewhat rationally. We won't get anything significant back for Finley/ Bonner combo. The only thing we probably can get back is a contract in a 6-7 million dollar range for a fringe rotation player at best. Like a Jason Kapono.

If we want anything significant back, our best shot to attain a Raja Bell/ James Posey/ Nocioni would be to include Mason.

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Originally Posted by Rogue

Nocioni and Bell neither is superior to Fin

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what??? :bang

warriros are triimming payroll and heading into the season with 14 players only and not addin anyone

i think we should try and trade finley + bonner + fillers for jax + backup pg....

Bell seems like the best fit. Perhaps Pop can talk LB into being our Jerry West. :)

I would also think that Bell is a great fit, but I agree with Bruno, why should the Bobcats want to trade him, especially for nothing (or not much) in return.
I mentioned DeShawn Stevenson as an trade target several times.
after the trade with the Wolves the Wizards back court is totally overloaded (Arenas, Foye, Crittenton, James, Mike Miller, Young, Butler, Stevenson) and they are tax payers. IMO they will try to move at least 2 players out of this group and I'm pretty sure they will listen to offers for Stevenson. hell, the Wizards are one of the few teams that would actually do god in trading a player straight for Bonner. (to replace Songaila). they would save money (1.4 million this season including tax and 4.1 next season) and balance their roster.

Bell is the most Spurslike. Maggetie and Jacks are volume shooters we no longer need. Miller would be a good fit starting at the #2. Nocioni's minutes would come from where?

Jared Jeffries is a nice athletic defender when healthy who can match up with the LO-types.

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Originally Posted by 2Cleva

Jared Jeffries is a nice athletic defender when healthy who can match up with the LO-types.

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I don't know much about him, honestly. New York would probably be willing to get rid of him for just Bonner + Finley (no picks or anything else), because they'll gain $6.5M in 2010 cap space.

But would the Spurs be willing to take on that much extra salary for another year? You'd think there would be a limit to how much they're willing to spend.

It's funny that Jeffries was signed to be a center in New York, but he's really a SF.

And if the Spurs wanted him, they probably wouldn't have signed Haislip. I don't know what the hurry was on Haislip anyway; the Spurs have sacrificed some roster flexibility by signing him so early in the offseason.

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Originally Posted by spursbird

Here's my list for possible targets:
C.J. Miles, Matt Harpring, Nick Young, James Singleton, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Andreas Nocioni, Raja Bell, Jarvis Hayes, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Charlie Bell.

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I like Miles, Bell and Mbah a Moute a lot. Gomes could be a major asset as well. Gomes and Miles would be the perfect fits between SG/SF.

I don't think anyone is obsessed with trading Mason or hoping he's dumped at any cost.

It's just realistic that whoever this wing player they're looking at would eat all the sg minutes along with Ginobli. Throw in Hairston and the comments about Hill getting minutes at the 2 where does Mason get time?

So basically the reasoning behind these players' being traded is the people making the posts don't like them.

:tu

Don't see why people want to trade roger mason he was many of times the go to guy at end of games.

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Originally Posted by TIMMYD!

Don't see why people want to trade roger mason he was many of times the go to guy at end of games.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

It's more of thinking somewhat rationally. We won't get anything significant back for Finley/ Bonner combo. The only thing we probably can get back is a contract in a 6-7 million dollar range for a fringe rotation player at best. Like a Jason Kapono.

If we want anything significant back, our best shot to attain a Raja Bell/ James Posey/ Nocioni would be to include Mason.

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Some reasoning why Mason is expendable:

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Mason is expendable. His minutes and shots will be cut drastically next year with Manu and R.J taking up 60-65 minutes that were Mason and Finley's last year. Not to mention Mason's contract is up next year and Spurs have the dilemma of resigning Manu.

Mason is also a one trick pony and can't defend worth a lick.

All that being said trading Mason/ Bonner will give us a better piece back in return than Bonner/ Finley.

Mason/ Bonner and a 1st should catch the attention towards the Hornets for James Posey/ Bobcats for Raja Bell/ Kings for Nocioni. I think those three would be the best fits for us in needed a defensive wing that can hit the 3 ball. We don't need a volume shooter like Stephen Jackson for instance or even Mason at times.

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That's a lot to give up for a niche player. I don't see its happening.

Nocioni would make a lot of sense for the Spurs. Dealing him for expiring contracts which are less than his salary this year would also pare down the Kings' payroll this year.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

That's a lot to give up for a niche player. I don't see its happening.

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Not really considering the minutes Bonner and Mason are going to be fighting for ( 20 minutes a game at most). To get a guy like Nocioni who is multi -dimensional and better offensively and defensively than both Mason and Bonner. It would be adding more threatening 25 minute per game rotation guy that can start and be highly effective on both ends of the floor in all phases of the game.

Not to mention more versatile by playing the small ball/ spread the floor- power forward without giving up rebounding either ( rebounds just as well as bonner) and being able to play the wing and defend 2's and 3's ( better defender than Mason). Nocioni can still 40 percent from 3 point land as well ( same as Mason).

Bonner/ Mason and 1st for Nocioni is not a lot to give up with the depth that we have at both positions.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Not really considering the minutes Bonner and Mason are going to be fighting for ( 20 minutes a game at most). To get a guy like Nocioni who is multi -dimensional and better offensively and defensively than both Mason and Bonner. It would be adding more threatening 25 minute per game rotation guy that can start and be highly effective on both ends of the floor in all phases of the game.

Not to mention more versatile by playing the small ball/ spread the floor- power forward without giving up rebounding either ( rebounds just as well as bonner) and being able to play the wing and defend 2's and 3's.

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No, it really is a lot to give up for a niche player since you already said RJ and Manu will be playing so many minutes.

Not to mention we would already have 6 players that can play PF.

Not to mention everyone is assuming perfect health for Manu next year.

We'll see. I just think the Spurs have made all the moves they are going to make for awhile.

The Kings seem pretty high on Nocioni. I think they look to trade Martin before him.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

No, it really is a lot to give up for a niche player.

Not to mention we already have 7 players that can already play PF.

Not to mention everyone is assuming perfect health for Manu next year.

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I disagree.

Nocioni isn't a power forward. He's a small forward first and foremost. But he has the ability to play multiple positions. Therefore your justification is irrelevant.

If Manu is hurt, Jefferson can easily slide to the 2 guard spot and Nocioni can play the 3 with Finley/ Hill/ Hairston backing them up. And yes Jefferson can play the two just like Hedo did in 04' and Jackson did in 03'. The wing positions are interchangeable.

If Manu was to get hurt, I rather have a rotation of Jefferson/ Nocioni/ Finley/ Hill/ Hairston than Jefferson/ Mason/ Finley/ Hill/ Hairston.

I wouldn't trade anybody..

let's see what we have..if we're missing anything, make a move at the deadline..

this roster has too many ?s to make any moves right now, some of these guys can end up being good enough to make an impact..

I disagree. He's a small forward first and foremost so he will be playing behind Jefferson. And at PF he is behind at least three or four players. Therefore your contention he will play any more than Mason is irrelevant.

If Manu is hurt, there are a now a bunch of guys who can't really score who can play his minutes.

If Manu was to get hurt, what you would rather have is irrelevant -- that's why I don't see this trade happening.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Therefore your contention he will play any more than Mason is irrelevant.

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Did you watch the Mavericks series?

Mason's minutes were diminished because his shot was off and he couldn't guard anyone. He was a liability on the defensive end, which in turn will give Finley/ Hill more minutes at the wing this year. ( If Mason would stay for the year)

That wouldn't be the case with getting Nocioni. Finley's potential minutes that he would get from Mason being 0-4 in the first half, would be Nocioni's at the wing because he is not a liability on either side of the court. The only way Finley would see time with Nocioni on the team is if Manu or RJ are hurt or in early foul trouble.

That is how Nocioni would see more minutes than Mason.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

He's a small forward first and foremost so he will be playing behind Jefferson. .

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Jefferson can play the two. Look at our starting lineup in 2003 and 2004( Jackson and Hedo at the SG.

Our wing positions are interchangeable.

As long as one of the wings can defend the oppositions best two or 3.

Of course I saw them, I wouldn't expect Nocioni to play any more than Mason did.

Look, I like Nocioni and I think he would be fine on the team -- I just don't see the trade happening. Everybody wants to trade players they don't like for players they do, and Mason, Bonner and Finley (and for no reason whatsoever Williams) are everyone's favorite whipping boys, but that's not based in reality. Is there even any indication Nocioni is on the block?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Of course I saw them, I wouldn't expect Nocioni to play any more than Mason did.

Look, I like Nocioni and I think he would be fine on the team -- I just don't see the trade happening. Everybody wants to trade players they don't like for players they do, but that's not based in reality. Is there even any indication he's on the block?

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None at all. That's what I keep saying. The Kings FO love him and he became a fan favorite on arrival.

There's been plenty of talk that Martin could be on the block again though. Not that I think the Spurs would be in the hunt but it's more likely they'd dump his contract over Nocioni's.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

I wouldn't trade anybody..

let's see what we have..if we're missing anything, make a move at the deadline..

this roster has too many ?s to make any moves right now, some of these guys can end up being good enough to make an impact..

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Harlem,

I actually agree with you, unless a deal is available right now that makes the team significantly better. An ideal move (if it is available, and I doubt that it is, at least currently) would be to obtain Raja Bell for the Finley/Bonner/etc. package that it would require, because he is still an expiring contract you can offer at the deadline if an even better deal is available.

There are good reasons for doing a deal before training camp...namely the chemistry that a team builds on the court over the course of camp, preseason and the first 40 games of the year. However, if the deal available right now does not actually make you much better (or save a good chunk of money), then you wait and see what teams are ready to give up talent this year for expirings, once their own seasons have tanked.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Of course I saw them, I wouldn't expect Nocioni to play any more than Mason did.

Look, I like Nocioni and I think he would be fine on the team -- I just don't see the trade happening. Everybody wants to trade players they don't like for players they do, but that's not based in reality. Is there even any indication he's on the block?

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Based on reality? Then why does 90 percent of ST believe Finley/ Bonner can get the Spurs a player of Nocioni's caliber?
Thinking rationally, the only way we can wind up with a player of that caliber is to include Mason ( nothing against him).

Kings have been rumored to wanting to shed payroll. Then again they opted for Nocioni's contract in a trade for Salmons and Brad Miller in favor of salary dumps in other potential trades. So who knows?

Nocioni can be clumped in the potential trading scenarios between Posey/ Bell/ Battier ( all of which I'd offer Mason/ Bonner if that's what it took)

I was just reasoning why Nocioni would see more time than Mason, I don't know if he's on the block or not.

All I know is all this Finley/ Bonner combination in a trade won't get us back a player worthy of cracking the rotation. Therefore Mason would be the most realistic asset to bring back somebody of Nocioni's caliber.


In my opinion I think Finley/ Bonner trade bait can maybe get us a Jason Kapono, not a Shane Battier or Nocioni.

http://www.cnnsi.com/basketball/nba/...ackson_all.jpg

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Based on reality? Then why do 90 percent of ST believe Finley/ Bonner can get the Spurs a player of Nocioni's caliber?

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Because 90 percent of ST posters want those players gone.

I asked if there has been any indication that Nocioni is on the block.

I can safely assume the answer is no.

Now, is there any real indication that Bonner and Finley and Mason and Williams are on the block?

Finley+Bonner to OKC for Nick Collison and then pick up FA Bruce Bowen why: another solid big.. i personally am not sold on bonner,mahinmi and ratliff is just a fill in vet i believe....

and say what you want and i love his game in the SL but blair is still just a rookie.. i really think we need more help inside still IMO

our lineup:


Tony / Hill / Williams?
Mason / Manu / Hairston
RJ / Bowen / Haislip
Duncan / Blair / Ratliff
Dyess/ Collison / Mahinmi

http://photos.upi.com/slideshow/lbox...2003040901.jpg

why do people keep thinking that Haislip is a 3?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Because 90 percent of ST posters want those players gone.

I asked if there has been any indication that Nocioni is on the block.

I can safely assume the answer is no.

Now, is there any real indication that Bonner and Finley and Mason and Williams are on the block?

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No indication that Nocioni is on the block.

No credible source to indicate that Bonner/ Finley are on the block. .

Although it does make sense for the Spurs to look for a 2 for 1 deal ( considering their signings of bigs ( McDyess, Ratliff, Haislip, drafting of Blair) would make anyone believe Spurs have to be testing the trade waters with Bonner and ? If that wasn't the case then why would they go out and sign these bigs?

At the same time : Bonner/ Mason/ Finley are the only real trading pieces the Spurs have to deal with.

They can always trade Manu.

We should start a thread to see what he could get.

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Originally Posted by bigdog

why do people keep thinking that Haislip is a 3?

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Thats what ive heard/seen is he likes to play more around the perimeter.... and lets hope so because if we start putting him down low against the NBA bigs its bonner all over again with his skinny weak frame...

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Originally Posted by antimvp

http://photos.upi.com/slideshow/lbox...2003040901.jpg

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

They can always trade Manu.

We should start a thread to see what he could get.

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And I'm pretty sure 90 percent of the posts would have the Spurs ending up with D Wade or D Howard.

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Originally Posted by antimvp

[nothing]

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You made your point, dipshit.

Stop spamming.

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Originally Posted by DeJuanitoBlair

If RC pulls the trigger and gets SJAX back for a combination of Finley, Bonner, Mason. I'm buying full season tickets. You read that R.C. Be smart!

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That would be a brilliant move. there would be no shots for him.

How can Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, and Jackson share the ball?


With that being said, I'd absolutely love to have Jackson back. :lol

fuck sjax

Nocioni seems to be the kind of asset that is sat upon until the deadline to see what the best deal would be.

Besides that, his contract actually decreases the next two seasons. That might help the cap schemes of Sacramento or another team.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Nocioni seems to be the kind of asset that is sat upon until the deadline to see what the best deal would be.

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I agree. Same goes with Hornets and Posey, Charlotte and Bell, Battier and Houston.

If those teams are out of contention come February I can see either team parting with those players. ( Which most likely will be Charlotte and then maybe Houston then NO).

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Based on reality? Then why does 90 percent of ST believe Finley/ Bonner can get the Spurs a player of Nocioni's caliber?

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Granted that a trade like Bonner/Finley for Nocioni may be nothing more than a pipe dream, you have to remember that a trade does not always mean talent for talent. There are lots of other reasons trades go down. Money, roster spots, etc. Look at the Jefferson trade...that was talent for cap space.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Nocioni would make a lot of sense for the Spurs. Dealing him for expiring contracts which are less than his salary this year would also pare down the Kings' payroll this year.

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The Kings could very well do that trade if money is the driving force. They're definitely rebuilding and Nocioni is not what he once was.

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Originally Posted by TFloss32

Granted that a trade like Bonner/Finley for Nocioni is nothing more than a pipe dream, you have to remember that a trade does not always mean talent for talent. There are lots of other reasons trades go down. Money, roster spots, etc. Look at the Jefferson trade...that was talent for cap space. The Kings could very well do that trade if money is the driving force. They're definitely rebuilding and Nocioni is not what he once was.

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No really? If they wanted a guy back for their future, as well as a cap dump, then Mason would be the best way to attain a player of Nocioni's caliber due to them being able to have Mason's bird rights and possibly resigning him.

Opposed to getting Michael Finley who would simply retire the following year.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

No really? If they wanted a guy back for their future as well as a cap dump then Mason would be the best way to attain a player of Nocioni's caliber due to them being able to have Mason's bird rights and possibly resigning him.

Opposed to getting Michael Finley who would simply retire the following year.

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That could be the case with Mason, but what if the Kings don't care about equal value in return? Hence the Milwaukee trade where we could have very well given the Bucks a player for their future (such as Hill or Mason), but they just wanted expiring contracts. What if the Kings want the same and decide to just take their chances in the summer of 2010? Bonner/Finley for Nocioni isn't that unrealistic if the Kings take that approach. They're not winning for a while so I doubt equal value would be their number one priority. Plus, lots of teams are stupid and incapable of making long term plans.

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Originally Posted by TFloss32

That could be the case with Mason, but what if the Kings don't care about equal value in return? Hence the Milwaukee trade where we could have very well given the Bucks a player for their future (such as Hill or Mason), but they just wanted expiring contracts. What if the Kings want the same and decide to just take their chances in the summer of 2010? Bonner/Finley isn't that unrealistic if the Kings take that approach.

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If that's the case. But it's most likely not, considering his salary declines the next two years from a pedestrian 7.5 million this next year.

Also you have to consider that they will have over 20 million in cap space to use next year already. 6.85 million in 2010 is a bargain for a player of Nocioni's caliber. Therefore a simple salary dump wouldn't make the most sense.

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Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

If that's the case. But it's most likely not, considering his salary declines the next two years from a pedestrian 7.5 million this next year.

Also you have to consider that they will have over 20 million in cap space to use next year already. 6.85 million in 2010 is a bargain for a player of Nocioni's caliber. Therefore a simple salary dump wouldn't make the most sense.

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Good points. I guess you can never have too much cap room though (especially for next summer). It seems like that's all New York is focused on right now. It just depends on what direction Sacramento is trying to go and what kind of value they place on Nocioni. I don't see him making much noise with a bottom feeder team like the Kings, but I think his value would go up immensely in San Antonio because of the system and surrounding players. I agree with you though that throwing in a decent player like Hill or Mason would be necessary to push this deal through. I wouldn't be surprised if we could get him for less though. Hell, I never thought the Spurs were capable of stealing a player like RJ in the manner that they did.

As I stated on the other similar thread, getting a big contract like S Jax means no more Manu. That being said, I think Manu will need to resign for reasonable $ or we can't keep him. If Manu is playing well, our best bet is to extend him for a reasonable price if possible. That could be a multi-year declining $ deal, lots of possibilities, but the price needs to be South of $10 million per for Manu, and even that likely means big luxury tax in 2010.

Final comment: the S Jax contract is really not that bad (4 years $34 million), having both him and Manu from 2010 on would probably work, but RJ at $15 million in 2010, not sure what the workaround is for that. RJ's hefty 2010 salary seems like it will be an issue for us.

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Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY

warriros are triimming payroll and heading into the season with 14 players only and not addin anyone

i think we should try and trade finley + bonner + fillers for jax + backup pg....

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This is the icing on the cake move. SJax essentially plays the same position as Anthony Randolph who is the real deal and Stephen Curry who may be also a stud. Jackson's contract is $7.65 million next year w/ 3 additional years. He knows the Spurs system, can play either the 2 or 3, is a good defender w/ length. A wing rotation of RJ, Manu, SJax and Mason might be the best in the NBA. Even if you have to include Mason in the deal that's still really, really good.

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Originally Posted by buttsR4rebounding

This is the icing on the cake move. SJax essentially plays the same position as Anthony Randolph who is the real deal and Stephen Curry who may be also a stud. Jackson's contract is $7.65 million next year w/ 3 additional years. He knows the Spurs system, can play either the 2 or 3, is a good defender w/ length. A wing rotation of RJ, Manu, SJax and Mason might be the best in the NBA. Even if you have to include Mason in the deal that's still really, really good.

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Jackson is also the guy Don Nelson really likes. Maggette is the guy GS would love to get rid of. Not Jackson.

I would rather keep Mason, but wouldn't mind Noc or Posey. If we had to give up Mason to get Jackson what do people think about trying to get Belinelli included?

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Originally Posted by bigdog

why do people keep thinking that Haislip is a 3?

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Because he is.

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Originally Posted by bigdog

why do people keep thinking that Haislip is a 3?

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At the very least he can be considered a hybrid 3/4. He will proably be used most when other teams play small and Duncan shifts to the 5. At that point Hailslip would be playing the 4 but his opponent would probably be a hybrid 3/4 like himself. An obvious example would be someone like Lamar Odom who plays the 4 but has the skill set of a 3. In fact, Odom has the exact same measurables as Hailslip (6.10 230).

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Originally Posted by bishopospurs

If we had to give up Mason to get Jackson what do people think about trying to get Belinelli included?

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:lol