Beer Summit!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Cops back one another up.

---

I don't see anyone backing up that Boston officer that got fired today for calling Gates a "jungle monkey." Do you? Cops don't back up racist cops...they also don't back up officer that make a bogus arrest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

That's what we've all been saying. Your insistence to inject race into the argument with straw men and the like only distracted the focus.

---

Really?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

show me where a handicapped old white man that needs a cane to walk was arrested in his own home for yelling at a cop.

---

Clambake seems to believe it's about race.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

The black man will kill us all.

---

I see.

Quote:

---

Except none of his action that have been recounted broke Massachusetts law. Only the imaginary ones you think the police continue to hide from the public for no reason.

---

You weren't there. The police aren't hiding anything, they have no reason to discuss the matter further. Besides, Gates is still contemplating litigation, it would be stupid for the police to develop diarrhea of the mouth now.

Only idiots like you are still trying to equate Crowley's actions with those of Gates and Obama. With the possible exception of Ms. Whalen, Sgt. Crowley is the most innocent person involved in this incident.

Quote:

---

Were there any other facts to provide, they would have already been provided.

---

Why? There's no case to prosecute and there's the potential for litigation. I don't think the police are going to volunteer anything more. Someone needs to ask the right question.

Specifically, what did Mr. Gates do that constituted disorderly conduct.

And, until that is asked and answered, you can continue to believe he was arrested merely for yelling from his porch and I can continue to believe it was for something more.

Why do you want to continue a fruitless argument?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

As I said, it appears the passage of time was recorded. If that tape wasn't edited, the whole episode happened very quickly without time to chat up the witnesses.

---

Again, you weren't there so you don't know what was said. Now who's making shit up?

You're constructing a narrative that fits your biased view. You're entitled. But, it doesn't make you right.

i said show me where crowley arrested an old handicapped white man, that needs a cane to walk, from his own house for yelling.

go ahead, show me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

i love that story. so, were his words threatening to you? was it the words? what were his words that had you so upset?

---

Yeah, the clenched fists and his asking "what the fuck are you doing here?" kind of gave me pause.

Given the place and time, you wouldn't have been concerned?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

others have called you whitey and honkie? anyone that gets upset from that is a pussy.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Me

I've been called whitey, honkie, and other names, by blacks in other settings, that didn't bother me -- even though it demonstrated their racism.

---

Still having reading comprehension problems and I didn't even misspell anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

a cracker pussy.

---

That doesn't bother me either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yonivore

I don't see anyone backing up that Boston officer that got fired today for calling Gates a "jungle monkey." Do you? Cops don't back up racist cops...they also don't back up officer that make a bogus arrest.

---

On something as minor as this stupid arrest, it's easy.

Quote:

---

Really?

---

Really.

Quote:

---

Clambake seems to believe it's about race.

---

He's got your goat. When you try to tell everyone they were afraid the black man was going to hurt someone, it's easy.

Quote:

---

I see.

---

That's only a slightly exaggerated version of your argument.

Quote:

---

You weren't there. The police aren't hiding anything, they have no reason to discuss the matter further.

---

So if they aren't hiding anything, we indeed have all the facts.

Quote:

---

Besides, Gates is still contemplating litigation, it would be stupid for the police to develop diarrhea of the mouth now.

---

So you are saying the police should hide any information they have.

Quote:

---

Only idiots like you are still trying to equate Crowley's actions with those of Gates and Obama.

---

No, his stupidity is separate from theirs.

Quote:

---

With the possible exception of Ms. Whalen, Sgt. Crowley is the most innocent person involved in this incident.

---

He made a stupid arrest.

Quote:

---

Why? There's no case to prosecute and there's the potential for litigation. I don't think the police are going to volunteer anything more. Someone needs to ask the right question.

---

Right, you said the polioce should now hide any information they have.

Quote:

---

Specifically, what did Mr. Gates do that constituted disorderly conduct.

---

Nothing.

Quote:

---

And, until that is asked and answered, you can continue to believe he was arrested merely for yelling from his porch and I can continue to believe it was for something more.

---

That would have already been revealed.

Quote:

---

Why do you want to continue a fruitless argument?

---

It has borne and continues to bear fruit. You can leave if you wish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

i said show me where crowley arrested an old handicapped white man, that needs a cane to walk, from his own house for yelling.

go ahead, show me.

---

I wish you'd slow down and read but, I'll try to use smaller words in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

Well, I know of many elderly white men (some with canes even) that were arrested for disorderly conduct at their own house.

---

Crowley's not mentioned in that statement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

On something as minor as this stupid arrest, it's easy.

---

No, it's not. It's a matter of integrity. And, this isn't a small matter anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Really.

He's got your goat. When you try to tell everyone they were afraid the black man was going to hurt someone, it's easy.

---

You and clambake have repeated this falsehood so many times, I think you actually believe I said it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

That's only a slightly exaggerated version of your argument.

---

My argument has always been that Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct and that people acting the way he was, are capable of doing unanticipated things. I never said he was going to. Another thing you've exaggerated.

It seems that you can only argue by blowing up my argument into some gigantic strawman.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So if they aren't hiding anything, we indeed have all the facts.So you are saying the police should hide any information they have.

---

They're under no obligation to release anything further. They might answer if asked. I seriously curious why no one has asked them that simple question. If, judging from you and clambake, this is such a big issue, I would think finding out that simple fact would be important to the media.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yonivore

Yeah, the clenched fists and his asking "what the fuck are you doing here?" kind of gave me pause.

---

knowing how you twist things......we'll need to hear his side of the story.

Quote:

---

Given the place and time, you wouldn't have been concerned?

---

you said you are law enforcement.......maybe he was afraid of being the next rodney.

Quote:

---

Still having reading comprehension problems and I didn't even misspell anything.

---

you leave too many things out.....deliberately.

Quote:

---

That doesn't bother me either.

---

bullshit, you're lying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

knowing how you twist things......we'll need to hear his side of the story.

---

Okay, go ahead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

you said you are law enforcement.......maybe he was afraid of being the next rodney.

---

I was neither armed or in uniform.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

you leave too many things out.....deliberately.

---

Like what? I'll fill in the blanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

bullshit, you're lying.

---

No, I'm not. Why would it bother me?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yonivore

Yeah, the clenched fists and his asking "what the fuck are you doing here?" kind of gave me pause.

---

why didn't you arrest him?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

why didn't you arrest him?

---

Well, even if I had been on duty and in my home state, he committed no crime.

Why are you changing the nature of the incident? It was an example of my experiencing racism. Are you denying he was trying to intimidate me because I was white?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yonivore

Well, even if I had been on duty and in my home state, he committed no crime.

---

to your standards, sure he did. you said he threatened you.

Quote:

---

Why are you changing the nature of the incident? It was an example of my experiencing racism. Are you denying he was trying to intimidate me because I was white?

---

he saw a black man getting the shit beat out of him by pack of wild, white officers.

walk a mile in his shoes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yonivore

No, it's not. It's a matter of integrity. And, this isn't a small matter anymore.

---

It's a very small arrest, so even though it was stupid, it's no big deal to stand up for Crowley.

Quote:

---

You and clambake have repeated this falsehood so many times, I think you actually believe I said it.

---

You have repeated the falsehood that Gates did something he was not said to have done. I think you actually believe he did it.

Quote:

---

My argument has always been that Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct and that people acting the way he was, are capable of doing unanticipated things. I never said he was going to. Another thing you've exaggerated.

---

Given what the police said Gates did, there was no reason for an arrest. You can't arrest someone for an anticipated threat. The guy needed to really threaten someone.

Quote:

---

It seems that you can only argue by blowing up my argument into some gigantic strawman.

---

It seems you can only argue by making up shit.

Quote:

---

They're under no obligation to release anything further. They might answer if asked. I seriously curious why no one has asked them that simple question. If, judging from you and clambake, this is such a big issue, I would think finding out that simple fact would be important to the media.

---

If, judging from you, this is such a big issue of integrity, the police would have already given a full account of the incident.

You are now accusing the police of having a lack of integrity and believe they are right to hide any further details from the public.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yonivore

Well, even if I had been on duty and in my home state, he committed no crime.

---

You just said he threatened you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

You just said he threatened you.

---

exactly. he's full of shit.....and lying about being an "officer".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

It's a very small arrest, so even though it was stupid, it's no big deal to stand up for Crowley.

---

And, you speak from what experience, ChumpDumper?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

You have repeated the falsehood that Gates did something he was not said to have done. I think you actually believe he did it.

---

I have never said he did anything I didn't know to be a fact. Based on my experiences and the statements of the officer, I supposed a lot of things. I never claimed they actually occurred or would occur.

From what experience did you make the claims you've made?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Given what the police said Gates did, there was no reason for an arrest. You can't arrest someone for an anticipated action.

---

And, they didn't. His report stated the elements of the charge. Tumultuous behavior being one of them. I would like for someone to ask Sgt. Crowley what that means.

And, police arrest people all the time to prevent an escalation of events.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

It seems you can only argue by making up shit.

---

I've made nothing up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

If, judging from you, this is such a big issue of integrity, the police would have already given a full account of the incident.

---

They have no reason to do so and every reason to keep their mouths shut in anticipation of legal action by Professor Gates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

You are now accusing the police of having a lack of integrity and believe they are right to hide any further details from the public.

---

They're being smart. I never said they wouldn't provide answers to questions but, it is stupid to volunteer information that isn't requested.

The arresting officers believe Professor Gates committed the crime of disorderly conduct.

Professor Gates thinks he was a victim of racial profiling.

Who know why the prosecutors decided not to pursue the case but, when they did, the police ceased all activity -- including the drawing up of a complaint; which, I KNOW BECAUSE I'VE WRITTEN HUNDREDS, would have detailed the elements of the crime for which they were accusing Professor Gates.

To them, the action was over. Now, they're just answering questions and waiting to see if Gates is going to continue to be an asshole and file a lawsuit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

You just said he threatened you.

---

Okay, we're back to the distinction between a threat and being threatening. Was he being threatening? Yes. Did he threaten me? No.

"What the fuck are you doing here," isn't a threat. But, he manner was threatening.

That's not a crime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

exactly. he's full of shit.....and lying about being an "officer".

---

God, you're like Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb

bullshit. you don't even know that threatening a police officer ends in arrest.

and now your changing the story......just like crowley.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

bullshit. you don't even know that threatening a police officer ends in arrest.

---

Threatening and being threatening are two different things, Clambake.

And, being threatening to an off duty peace officer outside his jurisdiction, isn't a crime. Threatening anyone, police officer or otherwise, is a crime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

and now your changing the story......just like crowley.

---

What have I changed?

Oh, and by the way, threatening a police officer doesn't necessarily end in arrest. It depends on the circumstances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yonivore

And, you speak from what experience, ChumpDumper?

---

It's only a matter of judgment on this one; and I would never expect to see cops willing give up their ability to throw someone in jail that was getting on their nerves.

Quote:

---

I have never said he did anything I didn't know to be a fact. Based on my experiences and the statements of the officer, I supposed a lot of things. I never claimed they actually occurred or would occur.

---

You act as if they did occur and would have occurred to justify an arrest because nothing in any record justified an arrest. You simply let your bias fill in the blanks for you.

Quote:

---

And, they didn't. His report stated the elements of the charge. Tumultuous behavior being one of them. I would like for someone to ask Sgt. Crowley what that means.

---

I would like to ask you what it means.

What does tumultuous behavior mean?

The only thing they said Gates actually did was yell at the cops from his porch. That does not break any Massachusetts law. If he did anything else, the police are hiding it, apparently to protect their integrity.

Quote:

---

And, police arrest people all the time to prevent an escalation of events.

---

What escalation?

Quote:

---

I've made nothing up.

---

Of course you have. It's the only way you can justify the arrest.

Quote:

---

They have no reason to do so and every reason to keep their mouths shut in anticipation of legal action by Professor Gates.

---

So you say they should hide whatever information they have.

Quote:

---

They're being smart. I never said they wouldn't provide answers to questions but, it is stupid to volunteer information that isn't requested.

---

Why? You claim they did nothing wrong? Why do they have to hide all the information they have?

Quote:

---

The arresting officers believe Professor Gates committed the crime of disorderly conduct.

---

Nothing in their reports and interviews show he committed that crime. You think they would have said something that would have justified the arrest.

Quote:

---

Professor Gates thinks he was a victim of racial profiling.

---

Here's where you try to inject race into the argument again.

Quote:

---

Who know why the prosecutors decided not to pursue the case but, when they did, the police ceased all activity -- including the drawing up of a complaint; which, I KNOW BECAUSE I'VE WRITTEN HUNDREDS, would have detailed the elements of the crime for which they were accusing Professor Gates.

---

So they are hiding information. Ok.

Quote:

---

To them, the action was over. Now, they're just answering questions and waiting to see if Gates is going to continue to be an asshole and file a lawsuit.

---

But they have nothing to hide except all the information you say they are hiding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yonivore

Oh, and by the way, threatening a police officer doesn't necessarily end in arrest. It depends on the circumstances.

---

well lets hear it!