Why Obamacare is faltering

http://trueslant.com/johnkinsellagh/...-is-faltering/

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As confirmed by recent polling data, Obama’s pitch that the country’s existing health care system is in need of radical alteration has fallen upon deaf ears. The more people learn of the details of Obama’s plan, the less they like it.

One of the reasons Obama’s health care initiative is now badly floundering is that ever since his inauguration, he has failed to appreciate the difference between campaigning and governing. Oddly this is a man who still thinks that his capacity to captivate swooning crowds with his stirring rhetoric is sufficient — in and of itself — to persuade Americans to revamp 1/6 of the nation’s economy.

Yet, to govern is to choose, and to date, as evidenced by his willingness to outsource the crafting of the stimulus and cap and trade bills to his party’s congressional left wing, Obama has been missing in action in terms of exerting some control or establishing some boundaries over the sausage making process.

The results have been predictable. The stimulus has neither stemmed rising unemployment nor stimulated the economy, but rather, has set in motion a cascade of bad faith between President Obama and the American public. With absolutely nothing to show for depleting our national Treasury by over 3/4 of a trillion dollars, he has now finally squandered his good will.

Obama oddly seems to think that his detachment from the legislative process is a regal virtue. Yet, since he has chosen to remain uninvolved in the legislative process, as myriad versions of his health care proposal work their way through the various committees of both the House and the Senate, Obama cannot say with any confidence which iteration of the bill is reflective of his wishes. This has led to the anomalous and politically untenable situation where most Americans don’t know the details of Obama’s health care plan and sadly, neither does Obama.

Created and succored by an adoring, compliant media, the myth of Obama as an above-the-fray transcendent figure bringing recalcitrant parties together was reaped to fruition on the campaign trail, but this iconography has served him ill as President. All of Obama’s talk of “crisis” in connection with our “broken” health care system is fomented. Since he is so dependent on his rhetorical skills, and so unaware of their limitations, Obama has failed to realize that most Americans with existing private insurance plans see no compelling need to explode the existing system, with all its attendant imperfections, in favor of having their health care delivered by the same folks who run Amtrak, the Post Office and have exhibited such dereliction in disbursing stimulus funds to all those “shovel ready” projects in a timely manner.

Yet Obama displays an obliviousness to this reality. Instead, he persists with his talk of “false choices”, establishing unreasonable deadlines for the plan’s completion, and by issuing his tiresome non sequiturs, the most notable of which is that the only way to resuscitate the economy is to “fix” a health care system that isn’t broken by expending another trillion dollars on a universal scheme that most Americans oppose and which the CBO says is fiscally unsustainable.

The “Hope and Change” train inevitably derailed on health care when it was forced to square all the noble sounding and multitudinous promises, with the reality of its preliminary $1+ trillion price tag. This is why at his press conference last Wednesday, Obama was reduced to mouthing the same platitudes that may have served him so well on the campaign trail, but when offered in response to tough questions about choices and scarcity under his plan, left him looking like he was hawking a Ron Popeil gadget. But wait! There’s more… Everyone will get better health care and at a lower cost — and it will be paid for by taxing only “The Rich.” No sentient voter who watched this display of presidential detachment from reality believed a word he was saying.

After the stimulus and cap and trade fiascos, with his health care proposal, Obama has come to the well for a third time, and insists that the bill be passed with the same alacrity as the stimulus. Yet due to his squandered credibility, it should come as no surprise, that no one is buying the health care plan that he and his fellow Democrats are selling.

In terms of his credibility, Obama crossed the Rubicon with the stimulus. This explains why a healthy skepticism on the part of voters now greets his every pronouncement on the virtues of his radical alteration of our health care system.

If Obama’s political strategy seems increasingly detached from fiscal and economic reality and at odds with public sentiment, it is because, blissfully unaware of his diminished standing, he is reading from the same script that has reliably served him so well on the campaign trail. But the gig is up. The stimulus debacle has permanently tarnished the halo of the New Messiah. The political splendor of Obama as a transcendent political figure has dissipated, as Americans conclude, that the words of the silver-tongued rhetorical magician are just that — words.

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the more the Repugs and their hate-media mouthpieces lie about it, the more people don't like it.

Yep...most people who are against health care reform don't know squat about the issue, but they listen to the right-wing hate machine ( a lot of credibility they have :rolleyes)

^ The responses of douchetons and Nbadan make me realize I'm on the right side of this issue.

I for one will be intrigued to see the reaction of some of the conservadummies here IF any of the health bills proposed actually do pass. We'll probably need a couple of Suicide Watch threads...

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

the more the Repugs and their hate-media mouthpieces lie about it, the more people don't like it.

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:lmao

The more BamBam pushes his agenda of lowering the standard of living to punish those he hates, the more people will wake up.

Far-left moronism just doesn't fly in the real world.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I for one will be intrigued to see the reaction of some of the conservadummies here IF any of the health bills proposed actually do pass. We'll probably need a couple of Suicide Watch threads...

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If a shitty bill becomes a shitty set of laws, then I will be stuck with it.


As will all of you who think it's the best thing evah.

I wish...

....it's easy to be against something, especially when you keep hearring and reading that

"Oboma want's to kill old folks"
"Healthcare reform is socialists"

..it's all a bunch of crock from the same crowd who brought us 'mission accomplished' , nothings different..

gee, the bill is failing
more dems in house and senate
more people voted for obama
yet it is failing.
yep. right wing nuts are to blame.

must update firmware.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

If a shitty bill becomes a shitty set of laws, then I will be stuck with it.
As will all of you who think it's the best thing evah.

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Agreed.
That said, I can't even remember a recent bill that's not shitty.

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Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas

gee, the bill is failing
more dems in house and senate
more people voted for obama
yet it is failing.
yep. right wing nuts are to blame.

must update firmware.

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Get your oil checked while you're at it...

....pfff....figure out how Congress works ass-wipe

obviously it ain't workin'

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

http://trueslant.com/johnkinsellagh/...-is-faltering/

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I've heard Fox news report that he hasn't relased any details as of yet..so how can anyone be against something they know nothing about? of course you could ask the people who are gainst the measure. How can you be against something when you don't even know the details?

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Originally Posted by SonOfAGun

:lmao

The more BamBam pushes his agenda of lowering the standard of living to punish those he hates, the more people will wake up.

Far-left moronism just doesn't fly in the real world.

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how's conservatism doing in the real world?

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Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

I've heard Fox news report that he hasn't relased any details as of yet..so how can anyone be against something they know nothing about? of course you could ask the people who are gainst the measure. How can you be against something when you don't even know the details?

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were you doing that same query with the stimulus, tax and tax, and the healthcare. waxman didn't even know what was in his.

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Yep...most people who are against health care reform don't know squat about the issue, but they listen to the right-wing hate machine ( a lot of credibility they have :rolleyes)

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99% of the American people are retarded regardless of party affiliation. Most people can't name their senators of locate the U.S. on a map (regardless of affiliation).

The people in congress don't know crap about reform either. They have no idea what will or might work. They just do what they do best, hammer out a bureaucracy that buys $50,000 toilets and vaguely does what it claims it does. Then they ingrain it so deep into society that it can never be removed if it does falter.

Kind of like our kick-ass massively over-budget postal system.

We are a government of retards, for the retards. People debate here for 11-18 pages somehow with both sides being wrong.

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Kind of like our kick-ass massively over-budget postal system.

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Eh, postage is still too cheap. I'm all for raising the rates more.

Obama's healthcare bill isn't bringing a revolution to the existing healthcare system, I'm pretty sure the Republicans would also make quite a similar bill like Obama's if they were on the rail. All the criticisms on Obamacare can be originated to the malicious republicans, who are just playing a tedious political game with Obama and his democrats in the same old way which is as long as the entire american history.

I'm not totally approval of Obama's bill, but some changes are needed and won't be downgrades, since the situation can't go any worse.

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Yep...most people who are against health care reform don't know squat about the issue, but they listen to the right-wing hate machine ( a lot of credibility they have :rolleyes)

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I fit into this category, I have no idea how healthcare reform will affect me. All I know is I don't want the Government controlling another aspect of my life. I guess I'm on the right also.

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Originally Posted by sabar

99% of the American people are retarded regardless of party affiliation. Most people can't name their senators of locate the U.S. on a map (regardless of affiliation).

The people in congress don't know crap about reform either. They have no idea what will or might work. They just do what they do best, hammer out a bureaucracy that buys $50,000 toilets and vaguely does what it claims it does. Then they ingrain it so deep into society that it can never be removed if it does falter.

Kind of like our kick-ass massively over-budget postal system.

We are a government of retards, for the retards. People debate here for 11-18 pages somehow with both sides being wrong.

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There are dumbasses everywhere. America didn't get where it is being the dumbest people on earth. Now, granted, these days, the divide is growing in America. BUt all in all, barring certain groups that don't value education, and have been brainwashed by the majority of our public schools, still pretty smart people.

They just came out with the 'report card' of schools here in SA...and, as usual, the usual culprits of dumbasses is on the list of failures and the usual suspect of model schools is on the list and time after time...white boys make the grades and enough money has been poured into the system the last 25 years to start taking a look at culture, which no one wants to do.

The white man isn't making you drop out of school, vato.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Eh, postage is still too cheap. I'm all for raising the rates more.

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They should slightly lower 1st ounce postage and significantly raise additional ounce postage, IMO. Which is of course completely opposite government thinking and therefore must be right :lol

dp

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Yep...most people who are against health care reform don't know squat about the issue, but they listen to the right-wing hate machine ( a lot of credibility they have :rolleyes)

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So you have read the entire bill, HR 3200 and like all the ways government infringes of our freedoms? How about these:

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Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access 2 individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to you banks accounts for electronic funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private health care plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation for illegal aliens

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans. #AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed

PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST automatically enroll employees into pubic option plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for health care for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll of 400k & above who does not provide public option. pays 8% tax on all payroll

pg 150 Lines 9-13 Business payroll between 251k & 400k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable health care according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income


Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NON-RESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay for their health care)

Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of health care Administration (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, professional judgment, etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131 Govt mandates & controls productivity for private health care industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable readmissions.

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission- Govt will penalize you.

Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!!

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. Health care the way they want. Rationing

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv. Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs people!

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Committee. Can you say health care by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment u will have at end of life

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage

Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services

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You must hate Americans.

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Originally Posted by word

BUt all in all, barring certain groups that don't value education, and have been brainwashed by the majority of our public schools, still pretty smart people.

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Who are these certain "groups" that don't value education?

$3T health-for-profit corporate system will win, I have no doubt.

In the last 3 months, about $300M was spent buying politicians to gut and/or kill health care reform. Congress critters are dirt cheap.

$300M, one time, to maintain/protect a $3T perennial cash cow? Such a deal!

Always remember that the reason (the diminishing numbers of) people with subsidised health insurance from their employers is that the hated federal GOVT makes it possible.

How many of you wrongie dumbfucks are willing to pay just the taxes on your employer-provided health insurance? (never mind paying the full-after tax $13K/year it costs to insure a family of 4.)

Your salaries are being forcibly diverted (ie, no freedom of choice) directly into the health monster's ravenous, racketeering jaws.

http://www.breitbart.tv/uncovered-vi...ate-insurance/

I really don't see what's 'shocking' about that video, other than to the status quo.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I really don't see what's 'shocking' about that video, other than to the status quo.

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Say one thing; mean another.

That IS status quo in Washington.

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Originally Posted by 101A

Say one thing; mean another.

That IS status quo in Washington.

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Exactly, hardly shocking...

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Originally Posted by DeJuanitoBlair

I ... This whole thing about govt takeover of health care is far overblown. In fact, every person who says anything of that sort should be officially labeled ignorant/idiot and given a uninsurable disease. AIDS would work.

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Yeah if this an example of the logic you were taught in your doctorate program you may want to go back to whatever book of matches you got your diploma from and ask for a refund.

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Originally Posted by hope4dopes

Yeah if this an example of the logic you were taught in your doctorate program you may want to go back to whatever book of matches you got your diploma from and ask for a refund.

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http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...n24/OhSnap.gif

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Originally Posted by Bartleby

Who are these certain "groups" that don't value education?

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You know who he be talking about playa, don't be acting sell out.

because dumb asses like you like to be butt fucked by big corporations without so much as a reach-around.