What holes still exist on the '09-'10 roster?

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Originally Posted by ffadicted

Yeah, cuz those were the exact results when Jameer went down last season for the Magic...

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Except Tony Parker is our #1 offensive option, and is levels better as a player..George is also easily a better player than Alston..

I only have one concern other than health TBH, and that's the defensive stopper..we have potential though..RJ focusing on defense is potentially a good defensive stopper(we don't need great, good works)..Malik Hairston is potentially a good defensive stopper, he has all the tools, he just has to put it together..as of right now, they're both unproven as defensive players in our system though(although Hairston looked good last year), so that's the main hole..

Our C is going to be Duncan or McDyess, so that's fine..Duncan is our shot blocker and rebounder..Blair can rebound..Ian can potentially play C..Bonner and Haislip stretch the floor..our big men are fine IMO..

Hill is easily a suitable backup PG, no doubt about that..

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Bingo

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

Weakness 2 - The Backup Point Guard

For me, the most gaping hole in the Spurs roster undoubtedly is at the backup point guard spot. If Mr. Parker goes down, this highly touted, salary-cap busting group is suddenly in the point-playing hands of George Hill, Roger Mason and Manu Ginobili, none of which would I refer to as a point guard. Each of them is good running the show in certain situations -- Roger during the regular season, Hill at the end of the second quarter, or during summer league (rookie year not included), and Manu during the team's last 4 possessions of a game seven with the championship on the line. I don't want to see this team rely on any of those guys for extended point guard minutes should Parker go down to injury. We need a backup point guard who can come in, make smart plays, give good defensive effort, and keep the game close until Manu can come in at 'winning time'.

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Hill is a way above average back-up point guard. Do you not remember Hill outplaying Derrick Rose last year? Did you forget about his string of 20 point games last year when he got a chance to start?

Hill is an above average defender who has a chance to be an all-star someday.

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Hill is a way above average back-up point guard. Do you not remember Hill outplaying Derrick Rose last year? Did you forget about his string of 20 point games last year when he got a chance to start?

Hill is an above average defender who has a chance to be an all-star someday.

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I like Hill's potential, especially as a backup 2 guard. I hope I'm happily surprised by his ever-improving point guard skills.

With all the money spent this summer, the Spurs must be banking on Hill as well at this point. Otherwise they'd of probably made a move at the one spot.

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Originally Posted by 2Cleva

What SA needs is a defensive wing that fits into the rotation. That's a tough combo of a player to find because SA knows they can't go smallball against LA (and really - you have to have LA in mind when building a championship-hopeful team) and their current endgame 1/2/3 (TP/Manu/RJ) are pretty good.

I assume Pop knows this too. The answer likely will be around Ginobili. If RJ can't hold Kobe (and he can't) and Ginobili isn't looking great this season, SA has to consider moving him for a better fit. That last year K will have appeal.

If Ginobili is 100% then they really are forgoing any help for lockdown defense and hoping to just outgun LA. Good luck with that but it is a plan.

As much as the team loves Ginobili, they know the bread is buttered with Duncan and he is the one that will truly lead them to another ring if its in their future - not Ginobili.

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Last year's Spurs finished 5th in defensive efficiency, even with Bowen playing very limited minutes. I don't think this year's squad will be much worse on that end, while the offense should be much, much better since RJ >>>>>>> Bowen or Finley, and McDyess > Thomas.

And who would you suggest moving Ginobili for? I checked salaries, and the only two deals that make any sort of sense are:

Ginobili + Bonner + Finley for Kevin Martin and Andres Nocioni. Puts the Spurs in long-term tax hell, but might improve the team for the next two years.

Ginobili + Bonner + Finley + Haislip for AK47 and Ronnie Brewer. Only if RJ can play the 2, or play Duncan/AK/RJ/Mason/TP for long stretches.

For the record, I don't like either of these deals. When healthy and active, Ginobili is better than any player mentioned in those deals, and the Spurs just might be relegated to rolling the dice and hoping for the best. Pop says it takes some luck to win a championship anyway, so keeping Ginobili is probably the best gamble.

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Originally Posted by 2Cleva

And why Bell? The guy Spurs fans should be trying to get is Battier. He's the only one with a license to play Kobe however he wants. Bell doesn't get it done anymore.

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Bell is much more realistic than Battier; I can't see Houston returning the favor and helping a division rival. I would trade Bonner + Finley for Battier in a heartbeat, and the Rockets would have a reason to do it (small-time salary dump), but they would probably ask for too much else (Mahinmi, Hill, lots of picks, etc).

Great post EHJ

I'm also worried about the the Defensive Stopper.
RJ is the one who comes close of it but I think after him we have nothing. I hope Hairston plays well in training camp and become a option on D

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Originally Posted by Duncan the G.O.A.T.

what if Manu goes down, then we have NO depth at the guard position, sorry but our bench can' just be Mason and Finely

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This is about winning a title. You just can't have high level insurance at every position. If any of the big 3 go down with a serious injury, Spurs won't win.

But that can be said about everyone. What if Kobe goes down? They have no depth at the SG spot. What if Paul Pierce goes down or KG like last year?

You cannot have superstars starting and on the bench.

I don't want to acquire any more players for now..we already have too many new faces..Jefferson and Hairston both have the potential to be good defensive stoppers, so let's see how they look..if we're lacking defensively by the deadline(which we won't IMO), then I wouldn't mind the pursuit of a defensive player..

We're gonna have the expiring contracts to make a move at the deadline, in case we need a stopper, or in case Manu can't play up to his potential(which sadly, could happen..hopefully not of course)..

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

So what is this team's Achille's heal...or should I say ankle? What roster spots would you still like to see tightened up a bit?

Weakness 1 - The Defensive Stopper

For one, when I look down this roster I don't see a defensive stopper. Bruce Bowen was the unsung hero of three of the Spurs four championships. Now that he's not coming back, hopefully Richard Jefferson can fill that role. Jefferson was always a very good defender, but some people say that since his ankle surgery in January of '07 that he's lost a step on that end of the floor. Hopefully his decline in defensive prowess has more to do with the fact that his teams were not very good the last few years. Defense is a lot harder work than offense, and it requires a lot more motivation to play it with tenacity. Tenacity and defense are not usually synonomous with lottery teams, so my hope is that RJ's defensive regression was more due to circumstance that injury. Beyond Jefferson though, there's no hope on this roster for a true defensive stopper. Kobe toyed with people like Roger Mason last year, and Manu, as Manutastic as he is, is not a Lebron or Kobe Killer. Manu can deliver an opportunistic defensive play, but he's not going to be our lock down defender, nor should he be expected to fill that role. Bruce will be missed is no one can step up. If I were the FO, I'd be pursuing Raja Bell in earnest.

Weakness 2 - The Backup Point Guard

For me, the most gaping hole in the Spurs roster undoubtedly is at the backup point guard spot. If Mr. Parker goes down, this highly touted, salary-cap busting group is suddenly in the point-playing hands of George Hill, Roger Mason and Manu Ginobili, none of which would I refer to as a point guard. Each of them is good running the show in certain situations -- Roger during the regular season, Hill at the end of the second quarter, or during summer league (rookie year not included), and Manu during the team's last 4 possessions of a game seven with the championship on the line. I don't want to see this team rely on any of those guys for extended point guard minutes should Parker go down to injury. We need a backup point guard who can come in, make smart plays, give good defensive effort, and keep the game close until Manu can come in at 'winning time'.



I commend Peter Holt and the Spurs for doing what needed to be done to make the Spurs championship contenders once again. This team can likely contend for the title, once again, with the current group that's been assembled. But I'd like to see a couple more insurance pieces be added to this team to make it complete. When does the regular season start? I'm excited! :hungry:

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Amen, Chopper! These two are, without a doubt, the two biggest holes...and in that order. I think the Spurs are counting on RJ to be the perimeter defender that matches up with the opponent's top perimeter threat night-in and night-out. They will have to play better help D because RJ won't be Bruce. Bruce is one of a kind. Raja Bell is a nice idea but he doesn't offer what Bowen did. There won't be many 7-for-27 games out of Kobe any more. Kobe probably still won't get to the FT line more than 5 or 6 times/game because the Spurs are the gold standard at not fouling. Bruce will be missed.

Until George Hill can run the break and dish to the wing in stride where he can catch it above the waist, I still see a hole at PG. Hill looked like a 2-guard running the middle in Summer League. Really bad timing and technique. Defensively, I'm fine with Hill at backup PG. Offensively, Manu may have to fill the bill.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

I don't want to acquire any more players for now..we already have too many new faces..Jefferson and Hairston both have the potential to be good defensive stoppers, so let's see how they look..if we're lacking defensively by the deadline(which we won't IMO), then I wouldn't mind the pursuit of a defensive player..

We're gonna have the expiring contracts to make a move at the deadline, in case we need a stopper, or in case Manu can't play up to his potential(which sadly, could happen..hopefully not of course)..

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Pretty much my sentiment.:tu

I'm hopeful for RJ, and to a lesser extent Hairston, but it remains to be seen if they're going to be adequate enough to approximate the Bowen role.

I like RJ more against some of the physical-type wings a little more, I question his finesse and foot speed, but he should be pretty solid. I also like that he's gained the respect of the officials and should get a pretty fair whistle, also.

Which leads me to Hairston.

I've had high hopes for Malik since the day he was drafted but I'd be lying if I told you that, thinking objectively, he's going to be ready to play the amount of minutes needed for a "stopper" or get the benefit of the whistle, in what essentially would be his rookie year. It's just not all that reasonable.

The wing defender is definitely a question mark but it's not as cut and dry as just adding a capable player.

The Spurs' four best players: Duncan, Parker, Ginobili and Jefferson you'd expect to be on the court during crunch time. Which, leaves one spot that will most likely go to McDyess or another big. (Oh, or Finley of course:lol)

Stoppers need minutes to do their job and because of the way the Spurs are constructed, it's going to be hard to find someone to be the complimentary cooler with only spot-minutes.

So, yeah, I definitely see the wing defender as a potential hole. I just don't see how the Spurs fill it unless it's internally. (IOW, RJ's got to be the man.)


The backup-point doesn't worry me, nor does it seem to worry RC from his past comments. If there's one more potential hole it's a 7'-ish defensive-big.

You've got Tim, 'Dyess, and a bunch of unknowns.

Blair's basically Malik on 'roids, but lacks experience. Ratliff should play a Massenburg or Willis-type role. Mahinmi could be a difference-maker; for better or worse. Haislip, while intriguing, won't be expected to guard 5's and isn't guaranteed a roster spot. And Bonner just isn't capable of defending legit, talented size.

So, if Tim or 'Dyess are slowed by injury or foul-trouble and you're already depending on RJ and Ginobili to contain Artest and Kobe, who do the Spurs really have to close down the lane?

I think Ratliff is capable of having a turn-back-the clock game or two and Mahinmi has all the tools to potentially fill that hole for a stretch, but they're both iffy at best.

I think the Spurs roll with what they've got until the trade deadline, let the team gel and give the upside guys a chance to prove themselves, and then, if need be, see if their expirings can find them a player to fill their most pressing need.

I'm of the opinion that those things won't be as big an issue because this new crop of bigs, a mixed blend of experience and youth, will put the Spurs in a better position due to just simply getting more rebounds.
Those extra possessions after the initial stop was what hounded the Spurs more than anything. If you go with the tenet, Rebounds = Rings, than I think the FO has built a frontcourt that can go out and do that. While I concede that there are other teams with more length, I do not conceded that that alone makes them better.
If the Spurs own the boards, again, those 2 weaknesses, will be less of an issue. When it comes to ball control offense, No coach does it better than Pop.

great post BJ21. totally agree on all points.

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Originally Posted by BLACKJACK21

Stoppers need minutes to do their job and because of the way the Spurs are constructed, it's going to be hard to find someone to be the complimentary cooler with only spot-minutes.

So, yeah, I definitely see the wing defender as a potential hole. I just don't see how the Spurs fill it unless it's internally. (IOW, RJ's got to be the man.)

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that's what I also tried to point out. when people argue to just hire a stopper (or bring back Bruce), sit him on the bench and "bring him when needed", they totally ignore that a stopper isn't a player for one big moment (like a Kerr type shooter), this player needs to make the other teams star work harder and exhaust him for crunch time. and this means at least 25-30 MPG. so the "stopper" needs to be part of the regular 4 man wing rotation. he would either replace Mason or Finley.
best scenario IMO would be, that Mason's minutes are reduced to 20-22 (more or less the role Barry played for some years) and he's the #4 in the wing rotation. Fin is out of the rotation (they can keep him as a veteran insurance), Malik get the garbage minutes (and some more in b2b) to help his development.

If there is some sort of injury to Parker or Hill im sure the Spurs will sign another point guard like they did 2 years ago when Parker went down and they signed Damon Stoudemire.

Desmond Mason wont be resigning with the Thunder, he can possibly be a good guy to come in for 10-15 minutes to cool someone down+ he wont hurt you on offense.

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Originally Posted by mountainballer

great post BJ21. totally agree on all points.



that's what I also tried to point out. when people argue to just hire a stopper (or bring back Bruce), sit him on the bench and "bring him when needed", they totally ignore that a stopper isn't a player for one big moment (like a Kerr type shooter), this player needs to make the other teams star work harder and exhaust him for crunch time. and this means at least 25-30 MPG. so the "stopper" needs to be part of the regular 4 man wing rotation. he would either replace Mason or Finley.
best scenario IMO would be, that Mason's minutes are reduced to 20-22 (more or less the role Barry played for some years) and he's the #4 in the wing rotation. Fin is out of the rotation (they can keep him as a veteran insurance), Malik get the garbage minutes (and some more in b2b) to help his development.

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Yes, but on the other hand, the defensive stopper role can work. If you can bring waves of players that make an offensive player work, then they will still tire out and not be able to adjust nearly as well to different styles of defense.

Even though a stopper would need to play extended minutes normally for the effects to appear late in the game, if you have 2-3 guys who come in and that are always fresh, that you need little offensive production from, it could work. The offensive player does not know the difference if he is working the entire game.

With a definite improvement of the front court...the Help D will be far superior over last years. Most know that Spurs D is not "Shutting Down" opposing team's perimeter players more so than "Filtering" the oposing players to predestined spots on the floor where the help D is suppose to be.

Most of our perimeter players last year were doing just that. However...the help from the front court was almost non-existent.

Hill, Jefferson, Ginobili, Hairston, and possibly even Haislip will all be able to provide the same "Filter" defense from the perimeter and McDyess, Blair, Mahinmi and Ratliff are a far cry better than the front court of last year.

That said...I think our defense is going to be better than last year and our offensive output will improve.

But the "achiles" is the PG position for the fact that TP can provide both scoring and assists. Something no one else currently on the team can do.

I disagree with the backup PG spot being a weakness. I actually think that it is one of Spurs' strength. Hill should be a damn fine backup PG. He will likely be paired with Manu at SG which should help to cover most of his weaknesses.

The defensive stopper is more a question of who should be Spurs' 4th SG/SF. Manu, Mason and RJ should play most of the minutes at SG/SF but what player should be added to this rotation?
Right now, this player is Finley. Finley is a way good enough player to be Spurs 4th SG/SF but I think that he doesn't complement well a Mason/Manu/RJ rotation. I rather see Spurs having a more defensive minded player as 4th SG/SF.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I disagree with the backup PG spot being a weakness. I actually think that it is one of Spurs' strength. Hill should be a damn fine backup PG. He will likely be paired with Manu at SG which should help to cover most of his weaknesses.

The defensive stopper is more a question of who should be Spurs' 4th SG/SF. Manu, Mason and RJ should play most of the minutes at SG/SF but what player should be added to this rotation?
Right now, this player is Finley. Finley is a way good enough player to be Spurs 4th SG/SF but I think that he doesn't complement well a Mason/Manu/RJ rotation. I rather see Spurs having a more defensive minded player as 4th SG/SF.

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I agree completely. But, with Finley, it never hurts to have a shooter. Hopefully Malik can step up.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I disagree with the backup PG spot being a weakness. I actually think that it is one of Spurs' strength. Hill should be a damn fine backup PG. He will likely be paired with Manu at SG which should help to cover most of his weaknesses.

The defensive stopper is more a question of who should be Spurs' 4th SG/SF. Manu, Mason and RJ should play most of the minutes at SG/SF but what player should be added to this rotation?
Right now, this player is Finley. Finley is a way good enough player to be Spurs 4th SG/SF but I think that he doesn't complement well a Mason/Manu/RJ rotation. I rather see Spurs having a more defensive minded player as 4th SG/SF.

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Well ...we will have that opportunity this year to see if Hill can fulfill that role. Maybe he will. He's got the "gifts" to make it work but PG is just as much if not more about the "mentality/cranial" part of playing the position. Hill did not exhibit that part of the position all that well last year and "mentality" of a position is not something one can learn as well as the physicality of a position.

I agree with your Finley SG/SF statement...but if it's as a 4th...I think that Hairston/Haislip is gong to be in that role more so than Finley. Again...it'll all depend on the end of game situations the Spurs are facing to see which way that decision will go.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

I agree completely. But, with Finley, it never hurts to have a shooter. Hopefully Malik can step up.

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If you want to work with Malik, he needs sot get some minutes that is to say be the 4th SG/SF. In that case, Finley will be in the doghouse.
Finley has tons of flaws but he is still a decent player and I don't see Pop going with Hairston over Finley.

Me either. I like Finley as a fourth option. But if the Spurs are looking for a defensive wing, Malik could fit the bill and it is always easier to promote from within.

Anthony Johnson and raja bell would really seal the deal. AJ very smart with ball, has a decent offensive game and will play defense and raja bell I need not explain . I'd say roger mason as much as he is my dude and a sure shot would be expendable if they can pull this off and orlando is logjammed at point with the signing of J-will.

The third hole is the one in Pop's head which doesn't allow him to play young guys. So if he plays Bonner instead of Blair or Ian, that's a problem. Or if he pulls the rug out from under George, that's also a problem. Pop's stubbornness about playing George ended up backfiring and putting Mason in an unnecessary funk at the worst possible time - the playoffs.

Hopefully he'll swallow his pride and play the young guys -- I think the trust will pay off bigtime in the playoffs.

Forget who guards K. Bryant. If this year's Spurs are healthy, we beat LA rather easily.

The bigger question is how will LA guard all four of our scorers? Is Fisher really going to stop Parker? LA traded away Ariza, so Parker will get inside the paint in a nanosecond. So I guess you'll try the braindead Farmar on him. Okay, good luck with that, LA.

Another point -- the Spurs have four efficient scorers. Manu scores with very few shots. Parker and Duncan both shoot 50%+, and RJ scores on breaks and garbage. On the other hand, the Lakers have one efficient scorer...Gasol. Bryant can score efficiently if he's on, but most nights he needs 20 shots to score 25 points. Bryant is a volume shooter who doesn't go to the hole much anymore. Artest is nothing but a jumpshot machine, and is a terribly inefficient scorer. Lamar is an efficient scorer when he shows up, but he only shows up one out of three games. It's hard to get in rhythm when Bryant is jacking it 23 times a game. Bynum is only a factor in one out of three games.