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Are you fucking kidding? While no player wins the Finals alone, and Tim is the foundation of the team, Tony was CLEARLY the Alpha player in that Finals. It's not even really debatable. Tony was unstoppable. Mike Brown was SCREAMING at his team to keep him out of the paint, and they couldn't. He shot 57% from the field and 57% from beyond the arc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurstrodamus
I think the list is pretty solid, pretty fair. I don't think there is a perfect point guard in the game, so each of the guys on the list has his own share of flaws. I pretty much agree with the top 3, and they're all fairly close to one another. On any given night, one of the top three could out-perform the other two. But, it's the same for all three.
I think perhaps the distinction between Paul and Parker might be the question of if you were to switch their roles and teams, how would each fare? If you put Chris Paul on the Spurs and asked him to focus on scoring, could he excel at that? And, if you put Tony Parker on the Hornets and asked him to make all the decisions in the sets, push the ball when he could, and consistently get his teammates involved, could he excel at that? I think both could likely do well in the others' shoes, but I think Chris Paul could probably handle Tony Parker's role better than Tony could handle Chris' role. Both still great point guards and both deserving of high praise as point guards, but I can see why many think Chris Paul is the better point guard. Not to mention, Paul is the more traditional point guard.
Between Tony and Deron Williams, I think again it's close. But, I can definitely see why many would believe Deron is better. He's a better playmaker as it pertains to setting up his teammates and does a good job in both the half-court set and in transition with controlling the tempo of the game.
I think if there were a list of best "scoring" point guards, Tony could easily top it. But, if we're talking in general, the point guard position, I would take into consideration point guard duties and abilities as very important in the analysis and ranking.
As for the argument that Tony Parker has the better career accolades, then listing 3 titles and shooting percentage, I don't think it's really a congruent point. Championships are team awards and field goal percentage is not really a gauge in evaluating point guards. If we go by career accolades, Steve Nash probably should be first on the list.
Paul would be more successful on the Spurs than Parker would be with the Hornets. Paul is every bit the scorer that Tony Parker is, plus he's a better passer and defender.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamStone
I beg to disagree here. Better ball-hawker, sure. Defender? Eh.Quote:
Originally Posted by coyotes_geek
I highly disagree that Paul is a better defender. He is a gambler. TP is a better actual defender both on the perimeter and down low.
It is hard to gauge because of the Spurs system. Playing with Duncan makes it difficult to rack up the assists, but TP still sets up the offense well and we should see how TP does on the break this year, now that he has some help.
I dunno. NEITHER one can defend for shit...though, for some reason, I wanna say that Paul routinely gets steal after frustrating steal against the majority of the opponents he faces.
I should prolly check that before I sign off on it...
He does get steals, but to say TP cannot defend for shit is very false. Go back and watch the game film. He is an above average defender for his position.
Now neither CP3 or TP can guard each other, but who can? Other than Paul, TP does pretty well against most on most nights.
Ball-hawking is a big part of the defensive responsibilities of point guards.Quote:
Originally Posted by anakha
agree with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Fpoonsie
That is like saying "shot blocking" is a big part of the defensive responsibilities of big men and we all know that Camby is not a great defender. Same with Birdman.
I am not saying getting steals and blocks are a bad thing, but they often overrating peoples "defense".
Yeah, whereas TP averaged .9 SPG last season and 1 overall in his career, CP averaged 2.8 last season, 2.4 overall. (per nba.com)
Obviously, defensive prowess doesn't boil down to SPG alone, but it certainly doesn't hurt his case either. (and trust me when I tell you this, I HATE going to bat for that d-bag)
huh, it isQuote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Finish the quote. Shot blocking is a stat and sometimes a symptom of good defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
Defensive responsibility is keeping the guy from scoring a high percentage and rebounding and helping out.
Paul's a gambler, and he pretty much always gambles right. Defending down low, sure, Tony's better. But not out on the perimeter. His defensive instincts aren't that good. Tony's quickness compensates for a lot of that, but if Tony is guarding someone who's pretty close to being as quick as he is, Tony struggles a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
So does Paul. Paul does not routinely stop other guys PG's from getting to where they want. Look at how bad D-Will torches him every time they play seemingly. Billups owned him as well and he almost never does that to TP.
it's a lot more than that. if you have a great shotblocker in the paint, teams will most likely NOT try to penetrate. It's very valuable.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
To a certain degree, but Camby was the best shot blocker in the game for a while and his team got run up.
He got lit up one on one. Having a shot blocker next to an anchor is valuable, having a guy who only cleans up off of weakside stuff 3 times a game, not so much.
Yeah, teams definitely didn't go inside against the Nuggets with Camby. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by hater
I don't understand people saying Parker doesn't play good defense. Are they still watching games from 3-4 years ago? Numerous articles have been written this year about how proficient Tony has become at defending.
D Will torches Tony Parker pretty regularly too. Hell, no one in the Paul, Parker, Williams, Billups quartet can guard each other worth a damn.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
I think Parker does better against D-Will and Billups than CP3 does, but I have not checked the splits. But yes, generally, they all torch each other. But you can also look at the crazy lopsided head to head match up between D-Will and CP3.
Even if you take those guys out, TP does better in a traditional defense than CP3 imo. CP3 is a better overall player, but I think TP is a better defender.
TP and D-Will, I would take TP, but D-Will can certainly be argued.
I'm not saying that Tony doesn't play good defense. I just think that Chris Paul is a little bit better at it. JMO........Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
List sounds about right.
I wasn't really referring to you, just people who think both Paul and Parker are abhorrent at defense, which is absolutely not the case. PGs get pick n rolled more than any player in the league, so they actually have to play a lot more defense to hold their man to lower scoring numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by coyotes_geek
The top 3 are definitely close. I can't really put a number to each of them myself. Paul's the best playmaker and Tony's the best scorer but Deron's the best all round pg imo. All 3 are great though. Also I wish they would've included Westbrook in those honorable mentions. He's gonna be great some day.