Hoopsworld's Top 5 NBA Point Guards...

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Are you fucking kidding? While no player wins the Finals alone, and Tim is the foundation of the team, Tony was CLEARLY the Alpha player in that Finals. It's not even really debatable. Tony was unstoppable. Mike Brown was SCREAMING at his team to keep him out of the paint, and they couldn't. He shot 57% from the field and 57% from beyond the arc.

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Parker deserved to win the 2007 Finals MVP. However he did what he does best, SCORE as you pointed out above. He was an explosive scorer in a low scoring series. Once again he deserved the MVP award, however it was his scoring alone that got him to the MVP trophy. No one was close because they werent consistent scorers like Parker. In games 3/4 Duncan/Ginobili had subpar scoring games and Parker put up numbers. I love CP3 and D-will but they may be overrated, but so is Parker. CP3 assist and playmaking may go down without T.Chandler right? D-will is maybe just a product of J.Sloan beautiful offensive system right? Parker has to have the ball all the time to be effective, right?

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

Parker deserved to win the 2007 Finals MVP. However he did what he does best, SCORE as you pointed out above. He was an explosive scorer in a low scoring series. Once again he deserved the MVP award, however it was his scoring alone that got him to the MVP trophy. No one was close because they werent consistent scorers like Parker. In games 3/4 Duncan/Ginobili had subpar scoring games and Parker put up numbers. I love CP3 and D-will but they may be overrated, but so is Parker. CP3 assist and playmaking may go down without T.Chandler right? D-will is maybe just a product of J.Sloan beautiful offensive system right? Parker has to have the ball all the time to be effective, right?

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That's an extremely simple view to take. If Duncan had put up the kind of scoring numbers Parker did in the Finals, you would hear nothing but praise for how smart he is for "taking advantage of mismatches", "putting the Spurs on his back", "being a horrible mismatch for the other team", or "realizing his team needs scoring and stepping up accordingly". But Parker does it, and he's accused of being a one-dimensional player.

He shot at a 57% for the Finals (in a series where the scores were averaging in the low to mid 80s!). I'm not sure what he could have done to get assists in order to help the Spurs score a higher clip.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

That's an extremely simple view to take. If Duncan had put up the kind of scoring numbers Parker did in the Finals, you would hear nothing but praise for how smart he is for "taking advantage of mismatches", "putting the Spurs on his back", "being a horrible mismatch for the other team", or "realizing his team needs scoring and stepping up accordingly". But Parker does it, and he's accused of being a one-dimensional player.

He shot at a 57% for the Finals (in a series where the scores were averaging in the low to mid 80s!). I'm not sure what he could have done to get assists in order to help the Spurs score a higher clip.

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I clearly said that Parker deserved the 2007 Finals MVP. He stood out as the dominant player in the series for sure. You basically agreed with me, He shot well and scored in a low-scoring series. Duncan can get rebounds,block shots, etc etc and intangibles if he is not scoring. Parker is scorer and doesn't really do alot without the ball. Duncan affects the game on different levels, Parker affects the game alot on 1 level.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

I'm not saying that Tony doesn't play good defense. I just think that Chris Paul is a little bit better at it. JMO........

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Chris Paul is the worst defensive PG in the league. One of the big reasons the Hornets dropped like a rock last year was the departure of Pargo. They could no longer hide Paul on defense. I don't care about steals. To get one steal, you have to lunge, gamble, and otherwise get yourself out of position five times. That's four cases of five on four in the halfcourt while CP3 picks himself up off the floor where his man's crossover left him.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Chris Paul is the worst defensive PG in the league. One of the big reasons the Hornets dropped like a rock last year was the departure of Pargo. They could no longer hide Paul on defense. I don't care about steals. To get one steal, you have to lunge, gamble, and otherwise get yourself out of position five times. That's four cases of five on four in the halfcourt while CP3 picks himself up off the floor where his man's crossover left him.

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Not so fast there buddy :lol Steve Nash still plays.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Chris Paul is the worst defensive PG in the league. One of the big reasons the Hornets dropped like a rock last year was the departure of Pargo. They could no longer hide Paul on defense. I don't care about steals. To get one steal, you have to lunge, gamble, and otherwise get yourself out of position five times. That's four cases of five on four in the halfcourt while CP3 picks himself up off the floor where his man's crossover left him.

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The Hornets were about a PPG better defensively last year without Pargo than they were with him the year before. So it sure doesn't look like they missed him on that end of the court. Offensively, sure, they missed Pargo a lot. When Paul went out of the game last year that team's offense just ground to a halt.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Not so fast there buddy :lol Steve Nash still plays.

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No kidding. I'm not trying to put Chris Paul on anyone's all defensive team, but to say he's the worst defensive pg in the league is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

No kidding. I'm not trying to put Chris Paul on anyone's all defensive team, but to say he's the worst defensive pg in the league is ridiculous.

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http://www.nba.com/2009/news/05/06/d...eam/index.html
2008-09 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM
Position Player, Team 1st 2nd Points
Center Dwight Howard, Orlando 27 1 55
Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 24 5 53
Forward LeBron James, Cleveland 22 3 47
Guard Chris Paul, New Orleans 15 6 36
Forward Kevin Garnett, Boston 13 9 35


Sweet, sweet irony.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/05/06/d...eam/index.html
2008-09 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM
Position Player, Team 1st 2nd Points
Center Dwight Howard, Orlando 27 1 55
Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 24 5 53
Forward LeBron James, Cleveland 22 3 47
Guard Chris Paul, New Orleans 15 6 36
Forward Kevin Garnett, Boston 13 9 35


Sweet, sweet irony.

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:lol

You'll get no arguement from me that sexy steals numbers and a hefty ppg average will garner you some extra, and potentially undeserved, attention for the all defensive team. Lebron's place on 1st team all-d is pretty bogus IMO too.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

:lol

You'll get no arguement from me that sexy steals numbers and a hefty ppg average will garner you some extra, and potentially undeserved, attention for the all defensive team. Lebron's place on 1st team all-d is pretty bogus IMO too.

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Lebron on that list pretty much negates the whole thing.

He didn't even guard Turkoglu through most of their PO series. but i guess Courtney Lee is enough of an offensive weapon to require the attention of a top 5 NBA defender like LBJ.

It's hard to argue with that list. You could switch up the order of the top 4 and I probably still wouldn't have a problem with it. However, I don't think Steve Nash is top 5 anymore. I would go with Devin Harris. If Gilbert Arenas is healthy, you've got to move him up as well.

So, so stupid! The PG's role always depends on the teammates needs. All of the top PG's can do it all. What does the team need is the unanswered question.

How lucky are we? To have a top 5 pg. Who knew what Tony Parker would turn into? Very happy with him! Each year he gets alittle better, so I look forward to an even better year from him.

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Originally Posted by Spurstrodamus

Are you fucking kidding? Will you please tell me how many assists per game Tony Parker averaged in the finals?

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He averaged 3.2ast/3.0turnovers a game in 4 games vs the Cleveland Cavaliers. I'll admit it was a low-scoring series but really 3 ast a game from your PG is very low. I'd say 5 should be the lowest under the circumstances of the series being low-scoring but not 3ast and 3 turnovers with it.

Parker got the job done and they won. In a sweep. Are you guys really griping about his assist #'s? Jezus chrizt.

List is deadly accurate too.

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Originally Posted by picc84

Parker got the job done and they won. In a sweep. Are you guys really griping about his assist #'s? Jezus chrizt.

List is deadly accurate too.

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I said it before and I'll say it again. Parker deserved the 2007 Finals MVP award because his ball playing stood out.

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

He averaged 3.2ast/3.0turnovers a game in 4 games vs the Cleveland Cavaliers. I'll admit it was a low-scoring series but really 3 ast a game from your PG is very low. I'd say 5 should be the lowest under the circumstances of the series being low-scoring but not 3ast and 3 turnovers with it.

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Are you Spurs fans ? Really ? The man is Finals MVP, he destroyed the Cavs and you are bitching about his low assists assist number ?

TP is a LATE first rounder, and is paid 11 M$/year. Chis Paul and Deron Williams were drafted 3rd and 4th and recently got MAX contracts, they were/are/will be untouchable for the spurs.

I can't wait till TP has 35 pts and only 4 assists, you will again be bitching about his lack of passing abilities, it will be so much fun :lol

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

I said it before and I'll say it again. Parker deserved the 2007 Finals MVP award because his ball playing stood out.

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Spurstrodamus will be so mad at you :lol

Just kiddin', you're less a hater than I thought :toast

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

I said it before and I'll say it again. Parker deserved the 2007 Finals MVP award because his ball playing stood out.

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But you still sound spoiled. In the grand scheme how many assists he had is completely inconsequential provided the Spurs win the series, which they did. He wasnt taking teammates out of the game, he wasnt getting his points out of the team flow. Like you pointed out it was a low-scoring series with great defense, so maybe his passes that should have been assists weren't because a teammate couldn't convert. Either way I dont understand why you're complaining.

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Originally Posted by bigzak25

no dwyane wade?

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soooo true

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

He averaged 3.2ast/3.0turnovers a game in 4 games vs the Cleveland Cavaliers. I'll admit it was a low-scoring series but really 3 ast a game from your PG is very low. I'd say 5 should be the lowest under the circumstances of the series being low-scoring but not 3ast and 3 turnovers with it.

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This argument is like the special Olympics; no matter who 'wins' you're both STILL retarded!!:bang:bang:bang

Assists are such a insignificant stats!! "OOOHHHH. someone PASSED the ball before his teammate scored with it!"

What a stupid stat and what a stupid thing to argue about!:bang:bang

i would like to defend TP about his defense (for me he is an above average defensor), but i'm still angry about his defense in the last french NT game :lol


as for CP3, i can easily understand him being considered the best PG in the league, but i still think he is highly overrated.

1. he's not a good defender. he's clearly one of the example of this new hype in the NBA of claiming that the NBA superstars are the best defensors. last years, as best defensors, most medias were talking about CP3, D-Wade, LBJ..... and that's just a joke. there was a great article about D wade being overrated about his defense and the same thing happens to CP3, with his SPG stat that really doesn't mean so much.


2. i'm very sceptic about assist per game meaning. i will quote myself:

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apg is an overrated stat.


let's look at the teams with great assists PG.

we all know that, obviously, the teams with an assist first PG aren't winning the title the last years. that fact only should lead to the statement that a high apg PG isn't as great as some people say or think.

if you take two of the greatest assist PG in the league, often included and compared with TP in the top 3 nba PG rankings, D-Will and CP3, you see that when they're not on the court, their team have almost the same amount of assists per game.

for Utah, it's 24,6 with D-Will and 24 without him (14 games missed in 08-9)

for NOH, it's 20,2 apg with CP3, 19.5 without him (even if it's a small sample of 4 games in 08-09).



let's now look at the percentage of points assisted of the 6 teams whom PG have more than 8 apg and are considered as assists first PG/ "floor generals":
NOH (55%), Mavs (57%), Suns (56%), Utah (64%), toronto (60%) and Boston (55%).

LA is at 58% and the Spurs at 57%, which means with or above most of these teams (except maybe Utah that is a little ahead).

let's be clear, i think that CP3, Dwill and most of these PG are great and useful players.

but, again, the APG stat alone is an overrated stat IMO.


PS: stats from NBA.com and 82games.com

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for me, there are four or five PG that are more or less at the same level, with different skills. but i can't see any who would fit the spurs team better than tony.