Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
Gotta go with David.
Take away Dwight's height and body and you have nothing really except a guy that likes to dunk.
That's true for most NBA players. Other than their gifts, they have no real skillsets. Which is illustrated best when you have players like Shaq and Ben Wallace signing $60M+ deals and they can't even hit free throws.
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKVqpXl3M18
That blur across your screen is David Robinson.
I've had to repost this a million times when Oden was coming up to dispel any and ALL myths that he was in the same galaxy as David Robinson as an athlete. Surprisingly many fans on various boards I frequent and "experts, compared his athleticism to David Robinson. Yeah...okay.
There's isn't a 7'1" athlete with the combination of speed, explosiveness and agility as the Admiral. The way he moved was like a 6'7" wing except int he body of a big man.
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
I love David Robinson, but he couldn't dunk his free throws. David was a complete athletic freak, but Wilt was THE athletic freak.
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
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Originally Posted by
Galileo
DRob is more athletic than Howard. Wilt Chamberlain was more athletic than both of them put together.
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Originally Posted by
JamStone
Ummmm neither.
Wilt Chamberlain.
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Originally Posted by
2Cleva
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Originally Posted by
bigfan
Absolutely right.
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Originally Posted by
Phila_Chamberlain
Good, I didn't have to say it first this time.
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ambchang
Apparently you didn't even read the one sentence I wrote. Take your own advice and read it again.
Since when have I said athletic competition was ignored? When did I say the NBA was better in the 50's than it is now?
And Wilt only played half a season in the 50's. He went up against a prime Jabbar and played him dead even, even though Wilt was way past his prime. In turn, Jabbar was playing dead even against a young Hakeem when Jabbar was in his late 30's.
And you know because .....
So far you have demonstrated that your ignorance on a subject will not stop you from forming an opinion, that you can't take your own advice and read other people's posts in their entirety, and that you jump to conclusions. Good job.
Just do a simple search on Spurstalk, the subject of NBA oldies vs. modern NBA has been discussed ad nauseum. Besides, why would you be up for discussion on a subject you admit on being ignorant on? I am not going to argue optimization theories with a Grade 2 kid learning the multiplication table.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4down
"And no, I haven't seen the 16MM filmstrip that the game was recorded on, so yes, I'm too young to know how great Wilt was, but that's besides the point."
:lol
I don't really care about searching and reading old discussions - once in a while I read the first page of ST threads. All you've done was comment on my post and why you think I shouldn't have a take. Great. whatever, I don't give a shit about that. You never brought a take of your own, except to ask me to not have an opinion about something I don't know about. To that I say fuck off. Actually, I noticed you did make some points there later which I'll respond to in a minute.:p: But gimme a break - most of the posters on the forum know a thing or two about ball, not many know that much more. And if you think you know too much to be discussing basketball with mere peons, maybe you should be the one not posting on sites like this, because anyone can form an opinion. Thinking you're too good to talk to someone or discuss a point is the halmark of an asshole.
I wish you'd actually state what you believe about the topic at hand. I will judge when it is appropriate for me to post and if mods think I get out of hand, they are free to ban me. I stated in my original post what I thought, but recognized that there were limitations to my knowledge on the subject. Unless you're Dr. Jack Ramsey, or Lord Popovich himself, I don't give a rat's ass about what you think you know about basketball or how many posts you have. If you knew the basketball equivalent of optimization theory, you should have a front office job. But you're probably some shmo' at a desk, working a regular job, or maybe even a great job, given that you're posting on ST. What I'm sure you're not is someone who is employed by an NBA team. So get off your high horse and bring a basketball take.
If all you're interested in doing is "owning" someone on an internet forum with your mad arguing skillz, be my guest. (although i think that's pretty pathetic)
But if you want to really contribute to the forum and add to the discussion, let me know where you think I'm wrong. You seem to just be sitting on some high horse with this optimization theory crap and that's pretty pretentious dude.
Your responses to my posts have also highlighted a major flaw in this type of discussion - and it's already been mentioned: subjectivity. My original post stated that I thought Wilt is in the discussion, but it's not so cut and dry that he was definitely the greatest athlete among centers.
What makes you think Wilt is the most athletic, if that's your opinion? I really think a lot of the posters have brought some pretty good takes with the reasons for whoever they are supporting. We all know Jabbar wasn't all that great an athlete as well. In fact, that's an argument a lot of people have used for supporting the idea that Tim Duncan still has some good years "in the tank", and hence can be good for several more years, since neither relied all that much on athleticsim, relying rather on the arsenal of moves each has/had. (sorry bout the run-on) So your Jabbar argument is only so/so in my estimation, really. I don't care about old Wilt vs. young Jabbar, or old Jabbar vs. young Hakeem, I think people are trying to look at all these guys in their primes and decide which was the most athletic at his best.
I really think it's David for speed and leaping ability, and David was no slouch in terms of strength either, although I believe Wilt had the edge there after he bulked up.
As far as me saying you're all nostalgic about the older eras, you're right, you never said that. I erroneously assumed that was your stance. And you know what, I actually don't know for sure that all those guys definitely would have won those imaginary track competitions, just like nobody can know for sure that Wilt was easily twice the athlete that DRob and Dwight are COMBINED. That's just a bit of hyperbole don't you think? I did the same of course in saying Shaq would have scored 200. But you gotta admit Wilt didn't have the same degree of competion the modern guys had.
There may even be guys who could win the athlete argument that we are not considering because while they may have been great athletes, they were not skilled enough to be effective for major minutes.
Have a good life, bud.:toast
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phila_Chamberlain
I can go on about Wilt, so I will.
Just to bring something up, Wilt still hold the records for minutes per game in a season and in a career. No one will ikely ever break either, especially the minutes per game in a season.
Were the seasons 82 games long during Wilt's tenure? That might mitigate some of the glory of that accomplishment, although it is impressive.
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
young shaq had his head at rim level consistently and was the strongest playa ever. no doubt. drob was very quick, could jump and run fast. and dwight jumps high.
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4down
Were the seasons 82 games long during Wilt's tenure? That might mitigate some of the glory of that accomplishment, although it is impressive.
Yes.
http://www.basketballreference.com/p...lkid=ChambWi01
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jdev82
young shaq had his head at rim level consistently and was the strongest playa ever. no doubt. drob was very quick, could jump and run fast. and dwight jumps high.
Shaq has been called athletic for his size. That doesn't even put him within shouting distance of guys like Hakeem and Robinson.
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
OK..seriously..to compare Dwight Howard at this moment to David Robinson in his prime is an insult to David. Dwight has little to no offensive game. If you get a guy who can match him with power, he's got no game. He's not a good shooter, Not as fast as David, not as athletic as David, and David, over a MUCH longer career than Dwight has experienced so far, shoots 13% better on Free Throws, which is VERY important for athletic bigs who know how to get fouled. This isn't even close...yet. Now don't get me wrong..Dwight has a lot of promise...and I really like him, but he's not NEAR HOF level..and that's what you're comparing him with.
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
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Originally Posted by
stretch
lol wikipedia
wikipedia is true...it is...IT IS...
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
I would think the Admiral was more agile, quicker, and more limber then both Dwight and Wilt. Wilt i'd think was definitely stronger and probably had a better constitution. Evaluating endurance and stamina is suspect to me because did Wilt have to exert as much energy trying to stop opposing players? His stature and length I think helped him. He was more durable then Robinson, but then I don't think that has anything to do with athleticism. Anyways there are so many attributes to being athletic so its hard to compare.
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
Wilt was so dominant because of his athleticism that he caused changes in the form as well as the rules of the game. One was the widening of the lane and the other was to outlaw crossing the foul line with the ball on a foul shot. He could simply leap to the basket and dunk a foul shot.
He also played vollyeball at a professional level well into his middle age, demonstrating his agility. He was incredibly strong at 7'1 and almost 300 lbs. It was said that players never tried to block or stuff his dunks because they feared they'd go through the basket along with the ball.
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4down
:lol
I don't really care about searching and reading old discussions - once in a while I read the first page of ST threads. All you've done was comment on my post and why you think I shouldn't have a take. Great. whatever, I don't give a shit about that. You never brought a take of your own, except to ask me to not have an opinion about something I don't know about. To that I say fuck off. Actually, I noticed you did make some points there later which I'll respond to in a minute.:p: But gimme a break - most of the posters on the forum know a thing or two about ball, not many know that much more. And if you think you know too much to be discussing basketball with mere peons, maybe you should be the one not posting on sites like this, because anyone can form an opinion. Thinking you're too good to talk to someone or discuss a point is the halmark of an asshole.
So you are lecturing me about not forming my opinion that you shouldn't form an opinion on a subject you confess of being ignorant about? At least I don't come in here and start to state my position on a topic I know absolutely nothing about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4down
I wish you'd actually state what you believe about the topic at hand. I will judge when it is appropriate for me to post and if mods think I get out of hand, they are free to ban me. I stated in my original post what I thought, but recognized that there were limitations to my knowledge on the subject. Unless you're Dr. Jack Ramsey, or Lord Popovich himself, I don't give a rat's ass about what you think you know about basketball or how many posts you have. If you knew the basketball equivalent of optimization theory, you should have a front office job. But you're probably some shmo' at a desk, working a regular job, or maybe even a great job, given that you're posting on ST. What I'm sure you're not is someone who is employed by an NBA team. So get off your high horse and bring a basketball take.
That is some fantastic arguments, such as people have to be in a certain profession to know about something. But of course, something as simple as whether Wilt Chamberlain was athletic does not need a job on an NBA team, but you probably wouldn't know.
Besides, there are loads of argument already presented, whatever I say would have been repeating what was already posted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4down
If all you're interested in doing is "owning" someone on an internet forum with your mad arguing skillz, be my guest. (although i think that's pretty pathetic)
Another jump to a conclusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4down
But if you want to really contribute to the forum and add to the discussion, let me know where you think I'm wrong. You seem to just be sitting on some high horse with this optimization theory crap and that's pretty pretentious dude.
Where you were wrong was to have no respect of the history of the game, and act all righteous in it. If you don't know your basketball history, learn it, don't go out and diminish the accomplishments of great players that came in before you started watching basketball.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4down
Your responses to my posts have also highlighted a major flaw in this type of discussion - and it's already been mentioned: subjectivity. My original post stated that I thought Wilt is in the discussion, but it's not so cut and dry that he was definitely the greatest athlete among centers.
Except you stated the decade wrong, and exaggerated the lack of athleticism of Wilt's competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4down
What makes you think Wilt is the most athletic, if that's your opinion? I really think a lot of the posters have brought some pretty good takes with the reasons for whoever they are supporting. We all know Jabbar wasn't all that great an athlete as well. In fact, that's an argument a lot of people have used for supporting the idea that Tim Duncan still has some good years "in the tank", and hence can be good for several more years, since neither relied all that much on athleticsim, relying rather on the arsenal of moves each has/had. (sorry bout the run-on) So your Jabbar argument is only so/so in my estimation, really. I don't care about old Wilt vs. young Jabbar, or old Jabbar vs. young Hakeem, I think people are trying to look at all these guys in their primes and decide which was the most athletic at his best.
So I take it you haven't seen Jabbar play either. There hasn't been a player his height that played with the level of fluidity since. Get some tape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4down
I really think it's David for speed and leaping ability, and David was no slouch in terms of strength either, although I believe Wilt had the edge there after he bulked up.
Why would you know? You never even watched the guy play?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4down
As far as me saying you're all nostalgic about the older eras, you're right, you never said that. I erroneously assumed that was your stance. And you know what, I actually don't know for sure that all those guys definitely would have won those imaginary track competitions, just like nobody can know for sure that Wilt was easily twice the athlete that DRob and Dwight are COMBINED. That's just a bit of hyperbole don't you think? I did the same of course in saying Shaq would have scored 200. But you gotta admit Wilt didn't have the same degree of competion the modern guys had.
Bill Russell, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Wes Unseld, Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Chamberlain played during the first golden age of centres.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4down
There may even be guys who could win the athlete argument that we are not considering because while they may have been great athletes, they were not skilled enough to be effective for major minutes.
Have a good life, bud.:toast
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
One thing for sure, David has more brains and more class than Shaq, Dwight and the late great Wilt had put together.
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
David Robinson. And I'm not just being a homer Spurs fan. If you look at both of their skill sets and versatility, Robinson is clearly better. Robinson was a beast and Dwight Howard is just the closest thing to him right now.
Re: Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phila_Chamberlain
I can go on about Wilt, so I will.
Just to bring something up, Wilt still hold the records for minutes per game in a season and in a career. No one will ikely ever break either, especially the minutes per game in a season.
Someone might get 100 points but no one is getting 50 rebounds ever again.
