Top Defenders of the Decade: #4 Duncan #2 Battier

:toast

Quote:

---

Somehow, while pouring in over 20 a game, Duncan nearly managed to rule just as well as Ben Wallace(notes) did. He covered huge bits of floor while his guards recovered after the "screen" part of the screen-and-roll, blocked shots on the ball (he's been especially adept at giving a small guard a small step to drive with his strong hand, then recovering quickly enough to swat the shot with his left hand), and secured rebound after rebound. And he never fouled. Never sent teams to the line for cheap points. That's so huge.
As well-regarded as he is, Duncan is still underrated defensively. You could argue for him to be higher on this list, as well. It would be a tough argument to counter.



http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/bal...urn=nba,185792

---

so amazing :ihit

The only 2 I could make an argument for over Duncan are Wallace and KG, Dunacn > Battier.

Shane over Wallace and Duncan?

that list is wack.

kirk heinrich?! he's only been playing since 2004!

Crappy order.

Joke?

Duncan isn't first?

Smh @ Battier over Wallace and Duncan. And Eric Snow and Hinrich over guys like Kirilenko, Kobe, Mourning. I'd even argue Raja Bell over Snow and Hinrich.

Wallace should be first, followed by Duncan, then Bowen, Mutumbo, Artest, Battier, etc.

Although I don't put much stock in lists like this, I think the fact that Camby isn't even on this one says a lot about how much of a joke it was when he won DPOY.

Horrible list....:td

Bruce should be way higher, and u guys are stupid for hating on guys like Snow and Hinrich...they were/are both great defenders. But I guess when the media feeds u nothing but bullshit about how Kobe or Wade or Lebron are such great defenders than its no surprise that u dont expect other less notable guys to be up there. My Top 5 would be:

1.Wallace
2.Duncan
3.KG
4.Bowen
5.Battier

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bartleby

Although I don't put much stock in lists like this, I think the fact that Camby isn't even on this one says a lot about how much of a joke it was when he won DPOY.

---

Camby is the best shot blocker in the league...when healthy. I think him being injury prone has more to do with him not being on the list than anything else.

LMFAO

Garbage.

Bruce Bowen and Ben Wallace are definitely both of the top 2 defenders of the last decade.

It would be fun to hear Pop's top ten for this topic.

The fact that Bowen is only #7 made the list irrelevant in my eyes.

Top defenders of the decade: (In no particular order)

Clifford Robinson - Best post defender in the NBA after Rodman was retired.
Rasheed Wallace - Top 3 best post defender at any given time. Not a bad team defender either.
Bruce Bowen - Sure, he had help from Timmay, but the guy was a stopper.
Ron Artest - He is a great defender when his crazy is on. Problem is, his crazy also has him kicked out of games occasionally. Had the tools to be the greatest player of his generation.
Ben Wallace - The pinnacle of team defense. Could contain Shaq. With help, could even stop him. Ben's career will forever be linked with Shaq's. Did a surprisingly good job on Timmay in the 05 finals, despite not being traditionally a good man post defender.
Lindsey Hunter - He can take the ball away from anyone at will, can block shots on the perimeter, and almost never gets beat by his man. Sure he only played in spurts, but so does Kobe, and he is hailed as a great defender, and wasn't nearly as intimidating.
Dennis Rodman - When he played, the team he played for won. Even his last year...
Tim Duncan - Anchor of the Spurs' defense in the 21st century.
KG - He is a very intense defender, even if he got way too much help in 2008.
Eddie Jones - This guy's defense is totally under-rated. He was practically lock-down. Good for 30 minutes a night.
Jermaine Oneil - Say what you will about him, the guy used to be money in the post on defense pre 2005...
Alonzo Mourning - I dislike his game, but I can not deny what he was able to do off the bench for Miami. OMG.
Mutumbo - Challenged Timmay in the 03 finals. Shame on you Byron.


HM
Dwight Howard - Very very close. But his defense seems like it needs to be upped at least 1 notch to be mentioned with the others on this list.
Stephen Jackson - His crazy is also problematic, but could defend very well.
James Posey - One of the best defenders at his position.
Tayshaun Prince - More than just a block, when given the right circumstances, has been known to guard positions 1 through 5 effectively.
Kobe - Credit where credit is due, he can play lockdown for 30 seconds at a time.

First of all, Bryant doesn't rank. Second, quite clearly Duncan and Bowen or Bowen and Duncan should be the top two. The Spurs, for the most part, won with Duncan and defense all these years. Yeah, Ginobili was huge in '05 and Parker in '07, but those two things were the Spurs calling card.

Additionally, you look at the team defensive stats, and historically they're right there with any great defensive team in the history of the game. They have the all time defensive efficiency mark, another one in the top five, and they did this with generally two plus defenders.

Garnett goes to the Celtics, does for them defensively what Duncan has done since '97 defensively for the Spurs, and because he's in a bigger media market, fits the physical profile of what is generally considered a great defender, and is a shameless self promoter, he's all of a sudden considered a greater defender than Duncan? At his absolute peak, Duncan could effectively guard athletic face up four's, defend powerful back-to-the-basket five's, and serve as far and away the best help defender in the league. Garnett never had the strength to defend five's.

Battier being at #2 is absolutely ridiculous..Battier has never been an elite defensive stopper IMO, and even if he is, he certainly doesn't have the impact of an elite defensive big man..there's no way he can be put ahead of Duncan or Wallace..

Bruce Bowen

:pop::pctoss

I think the notion that KG is a demonstrably better defender than Duncan is a myth that gained steam when KG's "remarkable" defensive team in Boston in 2008 earned him a DPOY. If you take some time to look at the metrics, there were several Spurs teams in the early part of this decade that had comparable numbers or better, largely because Duncan had comparable numbers to Garnett's (or better).

I wonder sometimes if the view of Duncan would be different if he had won at least 1 DPOY (he's deserved it several times).

that list sucks
should be:
10. Dwight Howard
9. Shane Battier
8. Jason Kidd
7. Dikembe Mutombo
6. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Garnett
4. Bruce Bowen
3. Ron Artest
2. Tim Duncan
1. Ben Wallace

I don't think anybody should be in the top 3 outside of Duncan, KG, and Wallace..I don't see anybody else having an argument..

The highest ranked perimeter defender on the list should be Bowen. Artest doesn't have the chops in the playoffs the way Bowen does to be considered a better defender. If people need a reason to believe, look at 05 and 07. What Bowen did to Lebron despite giving up about 50 lbs to Lebron at the time was ridiculous.

Wallace and Duncan should probably go 1-2. Prince should be on there, over Snow imo. Snow was a good defender, but outside of Bowen, I've never seen anyone get in Kobe's head the way Prince did in 04. And finally, the argument that everyone makes for KG can also be made for Sheed. Sheed went to Detroit, gave them some attitude, and was a force on the block against some of the elite PFs in the game. No one gave Duncan more trouble than Sheed.

In no particular order here's who I would have.

Duncan
Ben Wallace
KG
Bowen
Artest
Prince
Mourning
Mutumbo
Raja Bell
Rasheed Wallace

I left Camby off the list because everytime I watch Camby, he's terrible on help D. He doesn't rotate well on switches and just seems like he wants to camp in the paint and block shots. Blocking shots isn't the only thing that makes for great defense. I wouldn't consider Dwight Howard a great defender either.

Position D, great rotations, stepping out on pick and rolls altering/blocking shots, and finishing the play with rebounds is what great D is to a big man. Dwight and Camby don't do all these things very well like the Wallaces, Duncan and KG.

For perimeter defenders, getting into the heads of the opposing player has to be at the top of the list alongside staying in front of the offensive player. Contest shots, don't turn your man loose and above all, make your opponent alter his game from what he's comfortable doing is what a great perimeter defender does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SA210

Bruce Bowen

:pop::pctoss

---

We all know how you feel by now, stfu about it. but don't worry if the Spurs go down b/c lack of a defensive stopper then we can just bump one of the infinite threads you've posted that cute little emoticon in.

okay? great :tu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bdictjames

Bruce Bowen and Ben Wallace are definitely both of the top 2 defenders of the last decade.

---

yup,i with you,duncan should be third,battier overrated!

Even after putting all this homerism aside, it's just a joke how anyone could rate Ben Wallace higher than Duncan. Wallace used to be good, he may have had a year or two when he was a better helpside-defender than Duncan, but he never was a better one-on-one defender than Duncan. As far as the overall defensive impact goes, there is not even a question that Duncan was the way more valuable player. Don't let all those DPOY-awards fool you: Wallace is a very good defender, but Duncan just always was better than him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by quentin_compson

Even after putting all this homerism aside, it's just a joke how anyone could rate Ben Wallace higher than Duncan. Wallace used to be good, he may have had a year or two when he was a better helpside-defender than Duncan, but he never was a better one-on-one defender than Duncan. As far as the overall defensive impact goes, there is not even a question that Duncan was the way more valuable player. Don't let all those DPOY-awards fool you: Wallace is a very good defender, but Duncan just always was better than him.

---

Rasheed wasn't the shot blocker Ben was, but Sheed was a great one on one defender. Ben was a very, very good one on one defender though. Don't undersell him. But his weakside defense was great.

really why is battier so overrated these days? Like the second coming of jesus. I mean hes good, he does research on his opponents, Good player. But really when has he shutdown anyone noteworthy in the POs?

Where is Finley on this list? I saw him get a defensive stop in 2002 with Dallas. Seriously, I saw it.

He has started for the Spurs for years, so he must be an amazing defender. Why else would Pop play him? He can't shoot moe than 42% from the floor anymore.

Its the opinion of ............Kelly Dwyer?!?!? ...:jack

Kelly Dwyer's opinion is equivalent to the opinion of KBP for all I care.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by #2!

We all know how you feel by now, stfu about it. but don't worry if the Spurs go down b/c lack of a defensive stopper then we can just bump one of the infinite threads you've posted that cute little emoticon in.

okay? great :tu

---

Exactly. I don't need to read his posts that have the exact same thing his sig has. We get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nathan Explosion

Rasheed wasn't the shot blocker Ben was, but Sheed was a great one on one defender. Ben was a very, very good one on one defender though. Don't undersell him. But his weakside defense was great.

---

Wallace was a solid 1-on-1 defender and he used his strength well, but he wasn't as smart of a defender as Duncan. Wallace was always better off the weak side...Duncan was much better 1 on 1. And Wallace had what, 3 or 4 years as a premier defender??? KG and Duncan have been the best defensive players at their position over the entire course of their respective careers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nathan Explosion

The highest ranked perimeter defender on the list should be Bowen. Artest doesn't have the chops in the playoffs the way Bowen does to be considered a better defender. If people need a reason to believe, look at 05 and 07. What Bowen did to Lebron despite giving up about 50 lbs to Lebron at the time was ridiculous.

Wallace and Duncan should probably go 1-2. Prince should be on there, over Snow imo. Snow was a good defender, but outside of Bowen, I've never seen anyone get in Kobe's head the way Prince did in 04. And finally, the argument that everyone makes for KG can also be made for Sheed. Sheed went to Detroit, gave them some attitude, and was a force on the block against some of the elite PFs in the game. No one gave Duncan more trouble than Sheed.

In no particular order here's who I would have.

Duncan
Ben Wallace
KG
Bowen
Artest
Prince
Mourning
Mutumbo
Raja Bell
Rasheed Wallace

I left Camby off the list because everytime I watch Camby, he's terrible on help D. He doesn't rotate well on switches and just seems like he wants to camp in the paint and block shots. Blocking shots isn't the only thing that makes for great defense. I wouldn't consider Dwight Howard a great defender either.

Position D, great rotations, stepping out on pick and rolls altering/blocking shots, and finishing the play with rebounds is what great D is to a big man. Dwight and Camby don't do all these things very well like the Wallaces, Duncan and KG.

For perimeter defenders, getting into the heads of the opposing player has to be at the top of the list alongside staying in front of the offensive player. Contest shots, don't turn your man loose and above all, make your opponent alter his game from what he's comfortable doing is what a great perimeter defender does.

---

Wow. That's a perfect list, with the potential exception of Sheed. Props.

I added up the All-Defensive team appearances by nba players for the past ten years, then gave them 5 points for frist team, 4 points for second team. Here is the list by points:
48 - Kevin Garnett
47 - Tim Duncan
43 - Kobe Bryant
37 - Bruce Bowen
35 - Jason Kidd
29 - Ben Wallace
18 - Marcus Camby
18 - Ron Artest
17 - Doug Christie
16 - Tayshuan Prince
15 - Gary Payton
13 - Andrei Kirilenko
12 - Shaguille O'Neal
9 - Dwight Howard
9 - Dikembe Mutombo
9 - Raja Bell
9 - Chris Paul
8 - Dwayne Wade
8 - Chauncey Billups
8 - Clifford Robinson
8 - Shane Battier

You could find a lot of ways to criticize this rating. But at the end of the day, you have a hard time putting Shane Battier at the top of the list.

It's just mind-boggling that Battier can be put ahead of Duncan or Wallace..he shouldn't even be ahead of Bowen or Artest..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

It's just mind-boggling that Battier can be put ahead of Duncan or Wallace..he shouldn't even be ahead of Bowen or Artest..

---

It's Kelly Dwyer's opinion chill out.

Duncan/Garnett are number 1 for me, Wallace is a very close 2nd but he falls off because he fell off the radar in the later stages of the decade.

Other than a few modifications of what the order should have been, the list was pretty good.

Duncan and Bowen should have been ranked higher. I don't think Battier is a better defender than Bowen.

Also, when you count rebounds, offensive rebounds, screens as defense too (which they are) Duncan is #2 on the list and the case can be made for him being #1.

Since the writers on Yahoo don't actually play basketball themselves they don't understand how difficult it is to grab all those rebounds and still produce on offense.

Once Duncan became a Spur, the Spurs always had one of the best FG% allowed defenses. Can't say the same thing for Garnett's career.

B. Wallace was a great help defender, but he was not the 1-1 defender that Duncan is.

Considering this is a 2009 list of the decades top defenders, and Battier rep as a defensive stopper was average at best until that good game he had against Kobe in 2008 when it exploded, makes this list even more of a joke. Nevermind the actual skill and accolades, Battier doesn't have the longevity to make this list. Much less over people who have been doing it for an ACTUAL decade like all those below him. Nevermind his lack of defensive versatility compared to the other players on the list, among other things.

Why do I feel like he's on this list because of an ESPN shot of him studying a kobe bryant notebook during the playoffs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bartleby

Although I don't put much stock in lists like this, I think the fact that Camby isn't even on this one says a lot about how much of a joke it was when he won DPOY.

---

The joke here is that he WON DPOY

The four-time runner up to DPOY is #7 while KG sits at #1? Hell, Big Ben actually won it four times, and he's #3. If that wasn't bad enough, Kidd is on this list. WTF?

Crap.

Duncan #1

Well, maybe lists like that should serve as a reminder. In about twenty or thirty years, people will look at Ben Wallace and his four DPOY-awards and probably think what a great and unique defender he must have been in the first decade of the 2000s. Probably much like a lot of people that weren't around then to watch any games (includes me, for sure) would look at stats and awards from the 70ies today and come to the same premature conclusions.

Another example are the two MVP-awards Steve Nash got. Don't get me wrong, I like Nash as a player, but he is only really great when the team he is on suits his style of playing the way the Suns did a couple of years ago. When you look at his consecutive MVP-honors, you could get the impression he has to be one of the best PGs of all time, which he most certainly is not. In my opinion, Jason Kidd, for example, is a much better and especially much more versatile PG, but he never did get an MVP-award.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by quentin_compson

In my opinion, Jason Kidd, for example, is a much better and especially much more versatile PG, but he never did get an MVP-award.

---

Jason Kidd was a much better defender than some are giving him credit for. He had the quickness to stay in front of smaller guards and the strength to body up bigger ones. And he could get some steals too.

Kidd never won MVP but people felt he should have in 2003. Of course, Duncan won it and then proceeded to destroy the Nets almost singlehandedly.

Ten years would take us back to 1999. DRob?



This list is pretty weak.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

Ten years would take us back to 1999. DRob?



This list is pretty weak.

---

1999 was part of the 90s decade. The column is talking about this decade, the one that started in 2000 and ends this year since the new decade starts in 2010 (the teens decade).

Bowen should be no less than 4 and Duncan no less than 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spursfan #20

that list sucks
should be:
10. Dwight Howard
9. Shane Battier
8. Jason Kidd
7. Dikembe Mutombo
6. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Garnett
4. Bruce Bowen
3. Ron Artest
2. Tim Duncan
1. Ben Wallace

---

Kidd?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hsxvvd

The joke here is that he WON DPOY

---

Camby certainly did not deserve it that year. That list is a joke as well as CAmby winning the DPOY.

http://www.oddjack.com/wp-content/tim_duncan3.jpg

why does everyone rank wallace so high? i haven't seen him do anything special. duncan always killed the guy. there have been better defenders...camby was better...i would put him closer to 5..and would have duncan, bowen, artest and bell before him.

shit list

That's what happens when you smoke crack before putting out a list!

:wow