Press Conference at 2P at Yardley's Spa.
Now the question, do you put the jersey in the rafters?
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Press Conference at 2P at Yardley's Spa.
Now the question, do you put the jersey in the rafters?
Definitely.
:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by Juanobili
Nope.
So you're saying this won't be about a client list?
:rollinQuote:
Originally Posted by Mel_13
Does anybody know what its about?
Damn, I was really hoping to see Bruce back for one more shot a title. :(
Don't give up Baseline. One word: Farve
I won't believe retirement til he says it. Not when he was bothering the hell out of people in his limited minutes just last season.
It's gotta be about retirement...Quote:
Originally Posted by tp2021
At least he's going out a Spur... :D What a career...we better hang the jersey..without his defense, we don't win at least 2 of those rings.
Damn :depressed
DPoY runner up 2 seasons (maybe even 3 can't remember). A million clutch shots. Defense against all stars that lowered their PPG during the playoffs(Carmelo, Nash, Dirk, Ray allen, etc.). A million memories (my favorite being his staredown of the Suns bench after the 3 pointer on their side during that epic 07 series; and of coarse the Billups block). Oh yeah, and he has 3 rings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Spurs
Your argument?
Jersey should hang IMMEDIATELY this year.
Find a night in early December please :)
do it right after the rodeo trip
I hope it's about a once in a lifetime raffle for a free pedicure.
C'mon Bruce don't let us down.
it is spurs front office not bruceQuote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
:pop::pctoss
If this is the official retirement speach....:depressed
Thank you Bruce. Number 12 will be in the raftors.
:cry:depressed
....
as much as i love all of the things you just described, the spurs always pride themselves on being a class act franchise. bowen, despite his friendly demeanor off court does have some undeniable dirt associated with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanSucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA210
Yes.
Pop told Bruce to retire.
Fucking moron.
Do players usually hold retirement press conferences at a non-organizational location?
Bowen is one of the classiest guys in the league..yes, he is a dirty player, but I can probably name you at least 20 players that have or will have their jerseys retired that have reputations as "dirty" players..just because there are so many whiners in this soft league, doesn't mean Bowen shouldn't get his jersey retired for it..
Notice that pretty much everybody that has called out Bowen has had a reputation as moist and soft..shit, I hate Kobe, but he's one of the toughest guys in the league, and he has loved playing against Bowen..
Absolutely deserves to have his jersey retired, and nobody can argue against the facts..his accolades as an ELITE defensive player on MULTIPLE title teams will easily do it for him..
Quote:
Originally Posted by greyforest
?
What dirt would this be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
He was not dirty.
I love Bruce - and I loved his style of play -- but if he were on any other team, many people (you included) would want him crucified.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB
theres a reason people talk about bowen playing dirty. there are more incidents than chance alone could account for.
that doesn't detract at all from his otherwise classy demeanor and top echelon skill, but these things must be weighed together when deciding who to retire, and i'm just noting that the spurs franchise values class a lot.
What is that saying... something like "if you aren't cheating you aren't trying"?
Yeah, the dude played HARD defense. Sometimes he pushed the boundaries. But it wasn't because he was deliberately attempting to do so; the guy wanted to make sure his man never touched the ball, and if he did, that he never made a shot. When Kobe is in the air, Bruce doesn't have time to stop and think "oh no, I need to contest this shot, but I better make sure I only do it to the extent that I do not land underneath him."
As anyone who has ever played any type of competitive sports will agree, in the heat of the moment, you simply don't have that time. I used to run x-country; not that I ever wanted to injure someone else, but it happened. I'd step on a dude's heel trying to pass him; one guy and I were hurdling a bail of hay, our legs got tangled, and he fell hard. IT HAPPENS. In the heat of the moment, if you want to win, you cover your own ass first.
If you are consciously following every single rule, you aren't trying. Bruce tried his ass off. In the process, yeah, some people might have gotten injured or a bit offended. It's called "competition." If you sign up to play the game, you sign up to compete. If Vince Carter doesn't like getting physical, he should take up figure skating. Or soccer.
Saying Bruce Bowen has an asterisk on his retirement because he was a "dirty player" is like saying David Robinson deserves an asterisk because he was "soft." There are different ways to play the game. They both played it in the style of their choosing. So what?
Bruce Bowen will always be a Spur, retired or not. The guy meant a lot to the franchise and just as much if not more to the city. He worked selflessly and with the goal of helping the team succeed; he gave back the the community and genuinely cared about helping those around him. He was a class act on the floor and off. The kind of role model you want for your kids.
Bowen, thanks for the memories.
LOL not in this decade!Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
Karma's a bitch. Remember that in the Spring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Showtime24 LAKERS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samr
Who's saying there's an asterisk on anything? Bruce was amazing. Ridiculously quick, tenacious, etc. But, if you (or anyone) has the gall to call any single player in the NBA dirty, then Bruce has to be considered in that argument.
I'm fine with everything he did, but I also don't bitch about other players as being dirty.
All I'm saying is, don't use the double standard. Either acknowledge that he was dirty, or acknowledge that all the other 'dirty players' in the league are just playing hard.
Kinda brings a tear to my eye, Bruce has truly embodied what the Spurs as a franchise have stood for over the last 10 years. Defense. Hard work. Team-first mentality. I will be flying to SA to whatever game they retire the jersey at.
Bruce isn't any dirtier than Jordan or other hyper-competitive players.
I think this is all being done for dramatic effect. Bruce will retire, we'll retire his jersey. Then at the end of the season he'll re-sign with the Spurs and we'll bring his Jersey down from the rafters and he'll burn his dress shirt and change into the jersey. Don't y'all watch the movies?
Stephon Marbury held his on UstreamQuote:
Originally Posted by tp2021
Naw, next year. Leave the door open a crack, just in case we need swingman because of injury issues just before the playoffs...Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB
1 more year Bruce Baby....
I love the sig that a laker fan here has iirc, where a pic with Kobe and Bowen has the caption: "game respects game".Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Bruce was competitive dirty, but he wasnt i want to injure you dirty. The only real stain on Bruce's career was the kick to Ray allen's back. other than that there's really nothing, VC missing a couple weeks after twisting his ankle on him barely registers as anything. when you take into consideration that bruce played almost all of his many minutes guarding the other teams best player (and was therefore in the spotlight as the "bad guy" everytime he played) theres barely 4-5 accidental collisions that didnt result in any injury and people use them to imply he was(!?) a headhunter when nothing could be further from the truth.
If this is retirement I hope he gets his honors and keeps some kind of position near the team.
:wow:rollinQuote:
Originally Posted by Drachen
[QUOTE=Da Spurs;3666136]Nope.[/QUOTE Are you retarded or what?....How the fuck can you not put his jersey in the rafters?...Stupid fucking comment...
That is a fucking horrible saying. I've played competitive sports, and dirty play can easily be thought of "in the moment", or before if you want to get technical. Not saying Bruce shouldn't have his jersey hanging from the rafters, but he was intentionally dirty at times in his career. But above all, he intentionally tried to be the best he could at defense, and became a mostly shining example of individual/perimeter D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samr
Idk if you just have not played competitive soccer, or if you're just joking and I'm overreacting, but are you fucking kidding me!?! Soccer is physical, don't let the flopping of the professional level fool you. The lower levels, such as club and high school soccer are intense, even if it's not a pressure game, or there is no real rivalry. There is a lot of things players can get away with, especially in a game where your arms are in no way needed (outside of keepers), and in many cases players end up on a collision course going for the ball, and someone will have to give, or it'll get ugly. And don't even get me started on multiple players going for headers.Quote:
If Vince Carter doesn't like getting physical, he should take up figure skating. Or soccer.
And to talk about the first thing I quoted you on, being dirty isn't a crime of passion imo, it is a temptation that I have been able to mostly resist. But I've never played in professional leagues/national tourneys, so the temptation might be too much there. Also, I'm not a great actor, so I would probably get caught most of the time, lol.
Yes, soccer was a joke. I know it's physical; I tried playing it recreationally with a dude who wanted to play it professionally. I've never felt so sore in my life. But, I had to pick on someone, and soccer players are just the natural target.
As far as cheating being a temptation -- and I'm NOT talking about Bowen here at all -- just look at all the steroids not just in baseball but in professional sports in general. Track stars, baseball players, baseball players, some football players. Hell, I LOVE the sport of cycling, but cheating (e.g. steroids) is so prevalent that absolutely everyone is under question, and the champions are essentially guilty until proven innocent. But the reason for it is obvious: if you are competitive, there's A LOT of money on the table. But in order to be competitive, if the person isn't naturally one of the best, they have to cheat.
So yeah, for mediocre players who can make money if they succeed, if they aren't cheating they aren't trying. It's a gamble they're willing to take, and IMO it's absolutely terrible for the quality of competition, and for the fans.
Yessir, it belongs in the rafters asap.
1st post, great forum and Bruce was one mean mothereffer on D. I'll be staying tuned to what he has to say.
No guys, this "retirement" presser is just so they can really dodge any "collusion" talk once and for all.
Oh wait, no, he's really retiring.
Thank you for all the great years Bruce.
Welcome to the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy21D
Out of his many great defensive plays, I think the one that stands out for me is that perfect block on Billups in game 7 of the finals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phila_Chamberlain
Yeah I remember that one too. It was awesome because of the size difference. That block he had on Chauncey just pretty much told me yep, this series is over. He pretty much took the air out of the Pistons with that one.
seriously he's doing it at a spa?
My definition of 'dirty' is someone who intentionally tries to hurt other players, which I don't think Bowen did. People came down on his feet more often because Bruce played smothering defense, he didn't give an inch to allow them to be more comfortable (how many other players in the league smother someone like Bruce did?). A lot of shooters jump forward when they're shooting anyway, and Bruce being right in your face would mean you'd come down near him or on top of him. As for the infamous youtube video of the kick to the face, Bruce was again playing good defense by jumping with his arms up to contest the shot and throwing his legs wide to cut off potential passing lanes. He is airborne when the other player stops faking and drives forward, and actually hits Bowen's foot with his face. Yes, I'm serious. Watch the video.
I'll miss Bowen, but hopefully he'll come to a lot of games like David does. It's always nice to see them in the stands or joking with Tim and the rest of the team. I'm sure they'll retire his jersey eventually, but it would be cool if it went up to the rafters almost immediately.
His wife's spa. Free publicity, basically. He's a smart businessman, it's good to know he probably won't fritter his money away like so many other players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100
Ok, I just misunderstood you then, my bad. And I was only of thinking of cheating on the court, but I get what you're saying now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samr
Technically, he's also not a member of the Spurs at this point. While the association is hard to ignore, the fact is that he is a free agent. I can't imagine that the league would have anything to say about the Spurs hosting a press conference for a player whose rights are not theirs, but I'll admit that some things that the NBA does are puzzling to me and a prohibition against those sorts of things wouldn't really surprise me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thompson
But, assuming that this is basketball-related in some sense, I think the more likely explanation is the opportunity to have the press conference in a comfortable location and gain some small business advantage in the process.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by florige
A game-sealing block in a game 7 in the finals? That is dripping with epicness
Quote:
Originally Posted by tp2021
What I liked best about that block was that the entire game, hell, the entire series, Pop had Bruce chasing Rip through all the screens, disrupting him as much as he could, and Billups was muscling Tony Parker whenever he could and you could tell Tony was kind of getting worn out defending Billups.
So, in the 4th quarter Pop switched TP on Rip (speed to chase through the screens instead of bulldoze through them like Bruce would) and more importantly, the best perimeter defender on Mr. Big Shot. Classic chess move with a classic chess piece, and the block on Billups was when I finally exhaled and began to celebrate.
Raise #12 to the rafters...the sooner the better.
His number will be retired...book it!
A dirty player is someone who intentionally tries to injure a player.
Never once did Bruce Bowen do that.
game..set..matchQuote:
Originally Posted by EricB
I;m just curious as to the examples of these "dirty" plays.
getting in aguy's face on the perimiter? not giving him room to drive to the basket?
OH MY!!!!
The only one I can remember is kicking Wally in the face..but he was in a hurry to get to him....he was jumping, thinking he was shooting..Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB
If thats the only example, then IMO, the arguement holds zippo water.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursfan092120
I'll preface this by saying that I, like many of you, am a huge Bowen fan. His importance and significance during his time as a Spur went far beyond what any statistical measurement could indicate. That being said, I'm not sure he deserves his jersey retired. I'm not saying he doesn't, but he's not an automatic a la Gervin, Robinson, Duncan, or even Parker and Ginobili.
While I didn't see Johnson's career in it's entirety, I don't think he should have his jersey in the rafters. To me, when you put guys like that up there you lower the standard, and then where do you stop? If Johnson is up there, Bowen should be, but really, should either? That sort of honor should be reserved for the great or near great; not the good or very good. This may be somewhat contradictory, because Bowen was certainly great at what he did, but even the most avid Bowen fans would have to concede that he was not a truly great player. He was a limited player who knew his limitations, worked his tail off, and had a high basketball IQ.
Maybe being the 4th most important player on 3 championship teams in a 5 year span should trump that, I don't know. I guess that's what it comes down to: should winning trump the fact that on stand alone merit he otherwise wouldn't even be under consideration for having this honor bestowed upon him?
And there's almost nothing that could keep Bruce Bowen's #12 in circulation with the Spurs. He's not the greatest player in Spurs history, and he'll never even get a passing thougt fir the Hall of Fame, but he was indisputably a vital part of 3 title teams and his arrival in San Antonio was among the events that brought the Spurs back from the debacle that was the 2001 West Finals. He is the author of a few gigantic moments in the history of the franchise, several of which played a substantial role in titles, and he was the consummate team player for a club that personified the idea of team. Bruce Bowen is a legendary Spur and should be remembered as such.
game 2 2003 against the LakersQuote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
game 5 2007 the shot to win the game against the suns
thats two that just come quickly to mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
No Avery or yes avery, Bruce Bowen's jersey belongs up there. No questions, no nothing.
The 12 shall never be worn again.
the only people that call Bruce dirty are the pussified Gs and Fs that he guards and the cry baby coaches like Zeke and Rivers.
You never once heard Kobe call Bruce dirty. You never once heard Lebron call Bruce dirty, and Lebron we all know Lebron can whine.
Bruce has taken a few cheapshots (the kick to the back of Ray Ray and the retaliation on CP3...and maybe even the two Bruce Lee's to the face) other than that, he was just a hardnosed, old school defender. These are grown men and there is going to be contact.
However, he is nowhere near the level of filth of these players: CP3, Reggie Evans, Raja Bell, Eduardo Najera, Juwan Howard, and the two dirtiest players of all time......Karl Malone and John Stockton
Definitely no to Johnson. Bowen, whether you think he should have his jersey raised to the rafters or not, is definitely not a "no questions, no nothing" type of player. Gervin, Robinson, Duncan, even Parker, and Ginobili, they're the no-brainers.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB
Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Bowen is a no brainer as well.
Any educated spurs fan that watched him in his time in SA KNOWS that.
Avery Johnson belongs up there as well.
End of story.
dallas can retire aj number
If he does retire from the NBA, not only was he a great defender but his 3point shot as a Spur was classic. Anytime he would shoot a 3 I would get excited just watching him shoot, he defintely hit lots of key 3point shots for this ballclub during their 3 championships.
Despite what you may think, trust me, I'm an educated Spurs fan. You're speaking from emotion and nostalgia rather than logic. In sports, players of their caliber generally don't have their jerseys raised to the rafters. Like I said, and like you've ignored, I didn't say I didn't think Bowen should have his jersey raised to the rafters, but to me it's one that could go either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB
jersey to the rafters
I'm neither speaking from emotion nor nostalgia.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
I'm speaking as someone who knows the body of work and contributions of said player.
When you look at THAT, then it IS a no brainer.
Go away.Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks
Generally I don't say this, but I'm on the fence on this one. Like I said though, with Johnson's jersey up in the rafters, based on that alone Bowen's should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB
On the one hand, as a fan I'd like to see it, on the other hand, again, where do you draw the line? Is anyone who ever made a substantial contribution to winning championship(s) deserving of the honor? If that's the case, why not Horry?
they retired AJ's number, and Bowen did way more for this franchise than AJ did.
Retire #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
If you can't make the distinction, then theres no hope.
Horry made contributions, but he wasn't as VITAL to the team's success as Bruce Bowen.
Look at their record when Bowen would not play. Look at their defense when Bowen wasn't present.
Bruce Bowen brought Spurs defense BACK to the forefront and was argueably the MVP of the 2007 NBA Finals.
all i gotta say is... fuck aj! bowen means more to the spurs success then that little ghoulie ever has!
http://www.i-mockery.com/halloween/b...t-monster1.jpg
Both AJ and Bowen fully deserve their numbers retired. Great memories. I still have a tiny hope he might return and play one more season though.
It's gonna be hard to find another defensive player like Bowen. I love RJ and he is way better than Bruce, but he's not gonna do as much as Bruce did defensively.
Bowen, whether people like it or not, is gonna have his jersey retired. No one harassed Kobe as much as Bowen did in 03. Bowen made Rip his bitch in 05. Bowen made LeBron "Lebroom". When alot of fans want to resign a 38 year old man, you know you have an appreciated and special player.
Without question. Bruce was integral to 3 championships and the best lockdown defender in the league for about 5 years running (although never officially recognised as such).Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterBurns
overrated trash
You say things like this to people over the internet, alot.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB
Pop ended Bruce's career early, no doubt about that. Even Timvp alluded to something like that during the recent playoffs, is he a ***** moron too or is that different, and that's when your famous ass kissing kicks in??
Son, that's bullshit.Why bringing up Chris Fall to this thread about Bowen?Quote:
Originally Posted by BRHornet45
Bruce's number will certainly be retired, and deservedly so. The only real question is the matter of timing. There are no rules for such things. The powers that be in any given franchise make these decisions according to their own standards.
Popovich/Holt provided an immediate ceremony for David Robinson in the first month of the regular season following his last game. Sean had to wait nearly four years after retirement and more than a year after David. Avery's ceremony was more than six years after his last game as a Spur and more than four years after David.
Duncan will surely get an immediate ceremony. It remains to be seen if other members of the 03-07 era will have their ceremonies delayed until after number 21 is raised.
Using the spa if it is indeed to announce his retirement seems odd at this exact time. Given all the hoopla that has transpired of late with regards to his business dealings in relation to this spa and a possible inappropriate confrontation at another spa, you would think he would want to avoid the press conference turning into being about that and not about his NBA career. If the incident had not just happened, then it might look so oddly staged. As I said, mixing his NBA career with his wife's business is not a good idea. Does he really want the story about his announcement of retirement to be littered with mentions of the controversy over this spa and stories of threatening and cussing at previous employees?
good ol' ploto, we can always count on you to cast things in the worst possible light.Quote:
Originally Posted by ploto
TBF that's only when it comes to the Spurs though.Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanMustGo
Bowen: "What a beautiful morning! Great day to let some really special people know how they made me feel!"
http://twitter.com/Bowen12
We will not win another championship without him.
:depressed:depressedQuote:
Originally Posted by Penya
It's only a question to those who:Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterBurns
1) Hate on Bruce
2) Have no common sense
Thank you Bruce for all the things u've done for us
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Nob