Harvey: Bowen Sells No. 12, And Spurs Should Buy

Bowen sells No. 12, and Spurs should buy
Buck Harvey

Not everyone calls a press conference to say it’s over.

Sean Elliott, for example, didn’t.

But not everyone took public relations classes at UTSA during an NBA season. Not everyone has a salon and spa to promote, and not everyone waded into the community as Bruce Bowen did for eight years.

He would sometimes make as many as 50 appearances in a year, when the NBA contractually requires only a dozen from each player.

So Bowen worked every angle Thursday, as he did for a career, and along the way he made another case why the Spurs should someday retire his jersey.

Not everyone in the Spurs organization sees this yet.

When on the court, Bowen earned a jersey retirement, too. But just as his salesmanship was in play at his press conference, it was in the beginning.

Then, as a teenager, he disguised his voice, pretending to be his high school coach, and he put in a call to Cal-Fullerton.

His hot tip: You’ve got to see this Bruce Bowen kid.

“My brother taught me to have a go-get attitude,” Bowen said later. “If something’s not given to you, go get it.”

He wouldn’t always follow that. When he wasn’t drafted, he played in France, and he was disillusioned. He became both a pretty scorer and an ugly American; he would skip workouts as a protest.

Bowen later admitted he was “immature.” The one who helped counsel him, coincidentally, was Tony Parker’s father.

Bowen would return to both the U.S. and his instincts. He would work harder, and he would concentrate on something few others concentrated on. Defense.

He would still be traded and waived before finding a place with the Miami Heat. He earned $733,200 that season when he started 72 games, and he thought he might cash in.

He instead signed with the Spurs for the minimum of $716,000.

The summer of 2001 was a remarkable one. The Spurs added Bowen, Parker and Stephen Jackson for a combined total of approximately $2 million. In their second season together, all three would start on a championship team.

Bowen’s story stretched further. After all, he came to San Antonio at age 30, without a hint he would be special.

“But, for me, maybe that was better,” he said Thursday. “I got ‘it.’ If I’d been another player, maybe I wouldn’t have worked as hard.”

Instead, he’d head to the practice facility at midnight to drill with Spurs assistant Brett Brown. His energy was unmatched.

Still, even at basketball, selling was important. He could always move his feet on defense, and he understood every detail. Just as critical, however, was that he needed the refs to buy into his on-the-ball aggression.

He may have been dirty to the other 29 franchises, but not to league officials.

By 2007, after he’d irritated Steve Nash and LeBron James, the opinion printed here was this: Bowen, having established the defensive tone that led to three titles, deserved to see No. 12 raised in the arena.

Spurs officials are currently noncommittal. Replacing Bowen this offseason has been more pressing than honoring him.

So then came Thursday, when Bowen wanted some finality. He thanked everyone, answered some questions and peppered the names of various companies he’s worked with.

Asked whether his jersey should be retired, he gave the right answer. He said that was never what he thought about.

Still, even those words were telling. Bowen had sold himself, just as he had in the community for years, and in doing so he had outlined why a night to retire his jersey makes perfect sense for the Spurs.

It would be good business, wouldn’t it?

It would have sucked balls to see him playing with someone else.

It would be a travesty if #12 isn't up in the rafters by the end of this coming season.

Bowen > Elliott >> AJ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Johnny Moore

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the spurs added bowen, parker and stephen jackson for a combined total of approximately $2 million. In their second season together, all three would start on a championship team.

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wow.

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Originally Posted by timvp

It would be a travesty if #12 isn't up in the rafters by the end of this coming season.

Bowen > Elliott >> AJ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Johnny Moore

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Agreed.

It's a no-brainer that Bruce's jersey should be retired. I can't believe the Spurs need convincing of this.

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Originally Posted by timvp

It would be a travesty if #12 isn't up in the rafters by the end of this coming season.

Bowen > Elliott >> AJ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Johnny Moore

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:faint

Someone ought do a poll. I think we did one before and Bruce got like 90% in favor of his jersey being retired, and that was 3 years ago or so. Before his performance on LeBron in the 2007 Finals(which was arguably a finals MVP worthy performance).



Or better yet, this would be a good time for San Antonio to get on the Spurs asses about this. Every time Spurs fans do that the Spurs give them what they want.

You want Bruce's jersery retired? Let the Spurs know it.

Just like when they were gonna screw Drob on his contract.
Just like when AJ retired.
Just like when they were going to screw Parker on his contract.


You can get this done SA...all you have to do is let them know.

In my mind, Bruce is as much a lock to have his jersey retired as Tim, Tony and Manu. There should be no second thoughts about retiring any of the numbers of those 4 players.

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Originally Posted by duncan228

Not everyone in the Spurs organization sees this yet.

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Makes you wonder why, especially when they recently retired AJ.

Bruce Bowen is the greatest. He represents the Spurs as well as anyone who ever put on a Spurs jersey. He worked hard. He became a champion. His jersey belongs in the rafters. I will really miss watching him play.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Someone ought do a poll. I think we did one before and Bruce got like 90% in favor of his jersey being retired, and that was 3 years ago or so. Before his performance on LeBron in the 2007 Finals(which was arguably a finals MVP worthy performance).



Or better yet, this would be a good time for San Antonio to get on the Spurs asses about this. Every time Spurs fans do that the Spurs give them what they want.

You want Bruce's jersery retired? Let the Spurs know it.

Just like when they were gonna screw Drob on his contract.
Just like when AJ retired.
Just like when they were going to screw Parker on his contract.


You can get this done SA...all you have to do is let them know.

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Wow.

Bruce should definitely get his jersey retired, but I have to disagree that he as better than Sean. Bruce was a better defender obviously, but Sean was an amazing offensive player as well as being a solid defender.

Seems to me that the real solution is to have 2 types of honors.

One would be the better known "retired uniform" ceremony where the number is retired and the jersey is hung from the rafters.

But we need a second type whereby a popular player who is not per se a Hall of Fame type player but contributed greatly to the team's success and / or who is really popular with the community can be honored. In this case the honor is that the player's uniform is hung in this section but the number is not retired. In doing so the team can honor all the special players they want without "watering down" (bad choice of words, I know) the real honor of having a number retired. Gervin and Robinson are no doubt in the number retirement type, whereas Bruce would be the second type. Perhaps even make a rule that you have to have your uni hung in honor by the 2nd type for 10 years before being eligible for the number retirement honor.

What do you think?

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Originally Posted by ploto

Makes you wonder why, especially when they recently retired AJ.

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Not everyone was "on board" with AJ at first thought either. Like fans, some people initially think that jersey retirement is more a numbers thing. As soon as people in the organization think about it (just like with AJ), it will become a "no brainer" as Pop would say.

If the spurs had played without Bruce, it would have been impossible to win that 3 championship

Wow, I find it amazing how many people are for retirement when just a while back we had a thread about it, and so many people were against it.

I think you retire the jersey. Bowen's contributions on the court can't be quantified by numbers. And yes, he should have been a darkhorse for Finals MVP in 2007. His defense, along with Duncan's, was absolutely amazing.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Not everyone was "on board" with AJ at first thought either. Like fans, some people initially think that jersey retirement is more a numbers thing. As soon as people in the organization think about it (just like with AJ), it will become a "no brainer" as Pop would say.

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That's why I do not think it will happen this season, as others have suggested. I also think the idea of 2 in consecutive seasons is too close, unless it were a David or Tim type player.

Bruce's number will certainly be retired, and deservedly so. The only real question is the matter of timing. There are no rules for such things. The powers that be in any given franchise make these decisions according to their own standards.

Popovich/Holt provided an immediate ceremony for David Robinson in the first month of the regular season following his last game. Sean had to wait nearly four years after retirement and more than a year after David. Avery's ceremony was more than six years after his last game as a Spur and more than four years after David.

Duncan will surely get an immediate ceremony. It remains to be seen if other members of the 03-07 era will have their ceremonies delayed until after number 21 is raised.

One last thing. Despite Bruce saying all the right things about his retirement being irreversible, there is still a tiny chance that some offer at midseason will be too good to refuse. I would be surprised to see a Bowen ceremony earlier than the 2010-11 season, but I plan to attend it whenever it happens.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Not everyone was "on board" with AJ at first thought either. Like fans, some people initially think that jersey retirement is more a numbers thing. As soon as people in the organization think about it (just like with AJ), it will become a "no brainer" as Pop would say.

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Kori,

How many people really have a vote on a decision like this? It seems to me that if Pop and Holt are on the same side of this issue, then that's it. I'm sure they accept input from others, but does anyone else actually have a vote that counts?

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Originally Posted by whottt

It's a no-brainer that Bruce's jersey should be retired. I can't believe the Spurs need convincing of this.

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I'm not really sure the Spurs need convincing. I think people will wait and wonder and shout their protests until the Spurs orgo comes out and officially says it will happen, but Bruce has only been retired one day. Something tells me it will be a little while before any such announcement is made.

But I'm sure the organization appreciates just as much, if not more, what Bruce brought to the table. They'll make sure that jersey ends up among the Spurs' greats.

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Originally Posted by bluebellmaniac

Seems to me that the real solution is to have 2 types of honors.

One would be the better known "retired uniform" ceremony where the number is retired and the jersey is hung from the rafters.

But we need a second type whereby a popular player who is not per se a Hall of Fame type player but contributed greatly to the team's success and / or who is really popular with the community can be honored. In this case the honor is that the player's uniform is hung in this section but the number is not retired. In doing so the team can honor all the special players they want without "watering down" (bad choice of words, I know) the real honor of having a number retired. Gervin and Robinson are no doubt in the number retirement type, whereas Bruce would be the second type. Perhaps even make a rule that you have to have your uni hung in honor by the 2nd type for 10 years before being eligible for the number retirement honor.

What do you think?

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I agree with this. I definately put David, Tim, Parker, Gervin, Elliott, in a different place than bruce, aj.

If for some reason they don't retire his number, I might have to pull a Mavfan and convince myself that they did.

Well I think if they retired AJ's jersey, then they lowerd the standard per se. but anyways I think now Bowen definitly deserves his jersey retired. He was part of the core of the championship teams. He didn't have star power like the big 3, but he was always part of the equation. His defense helped win championships and he hit big shots during those runs as well.

I really wish they hadn't retired AJ's number.

Bowen will be inducted into the Cal State Fulleron Hall of Fame on Oct. 10.

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Originally Posted by tp2021

If for some reason they don't retire his number, I might have to pull a Mavfan and convince myself that they did.

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:lol

i dont recall who wear #12 before Bowen, but I will never forget who wore it after the summer of 2001!

:toast


Thanks Bowen!

#12

Bowen should get his number retired and it shouldn't even be a close case.

Haislip wore #12 in college and with Milwaukee. He wore #2 with Indiana and #24 in Spain but these numbers are taken with Spurs. If Haislip doesn't end up with #12, it could be a hint that Spurs FO plan to retire Bruce jersey. For the moment, he is the only player signed by Spurs without a number attributed on Spurs website.

Personally I'd love to see Bowen go into politics someday...he could be mayor of SA in a heartbeat...

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Originally Posted by ploto

That's why I do not think it will happen this season, as others have suggested. I also think the idea of 2 in consecutive seasons is too close, unless it were a David or Tim type player.

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I don't think it will be this upcoming season either. I think it will be the following.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Bowen should get his number retired and it shouldn't even be a close case.

Haislip wore #12 in college and with Milwaukee. He wore #2 with Indiana and #24 in Spain but these numbers are taken with Spurs. If Haislip doesn't end up with #12, it could be a hint that Spurs FO plan to retire Bruce jersey. For the moment, he is the only player signed by Spurs without a number attributed on Spurs website.

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Well, if they wouldn't let Manu have number 6 while AJ was still in the NBA and more than 4 yrs before it was retired, I'd say it is a very, very, very safe bet to assume that Haislip will have to pick a number other than 12.

i think it will be a couple years down the road, but you cant deny him the honor at this point, especially since they already retired AJ

I think my argument for retiring Bruce's jersey/number is pretty simple. For the better part of a decade the Spurs have prided themselves as a defense first team, that philosophy has helped guide them to four NBA Championships in that time, how do you not honor the guy that personified defense more than anyone else on the team?

That's pretty much it. Sure it helps to have two Hall Of Fame players (Tim Duncan and David Robinson) behind you when you get beat, but still I think he personified that guy pounding on that rock more than anyone else, of course I think the whole team pounded on that rock, but if you had to single out on guy from the rest...

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Originally Posted by timvp

It would be a travesty if #12 isn't up in the rafters by the end of this coming season.

Bowen > Elliott >> AJ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Johnny Moore

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+1

Bruce gets a ceremony at some point down the road. Book it.

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Originally Posted by timvp

It would be a travesty if #12 isn't up in the rafters by the end of this coming season.

Bowen > Elliott >> AJ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Johnny Moore

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Agree 100%

Take down Avery's jersey to make room for Bruce's. :)

Hanging his jersey immediately after his retirment is pretty much the highest honor the Spurs can give a player?

Does Bruce deserve it?


Absolutely.


Whether it's taking less money to benefit the team, or doing the dirty work, or just embodying the team...Bruce deserves that honor.

Especially since he got screwed out of a DPOY award on more than one occassion.


The only credit Bruce is ever going to get as a player is the one the Spurs and their fans give him, everyone else considers him a bad guy or dislikes him...he deserves this from the Spurs. He deserves it immediately, just like they did with Drob and will do with Duncan, Manu and Parker.

I don't remember if Gervin got his retired immediately or not(I suck at remembering jersey retirement dates other than Drob's) but if he didn't then maybe you have an argument against doing it this year...but still, even the way Bruce turned down other offers to play so his last game will be as a Spur, he deserves the immediate honor and I hope the fans push the Spurs to do it.

Spurs will give the fans what they want...I think it's ultimately the fans that will decide how fast it happens.

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Originally Posted by angel_luv

Take down Avery's jersey to make room for Bruce's. :)

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It was funny the way Bruce trashed the Mavs in his retirement speech...

He trashed Terry, he said the only way he'd have ever played for the Mavs is if he was traded to them. Otherwise he just couldn't bring himself to do it.

My all time favorite retirment speech, as I completley share his disdain for all things Mav.



Bruce gets "it". He needs to be in the rafters immediately.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Bowen > Elliott >> AJ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Johnny Moore

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Seem's wrong, but it's so right.

Retiring of a number is not just about stats, its about what that player has meant to a franchise, a community and a fanbase. Nobody fails to qualify because there is no set criteria. That's why you see players on many different teams who will never sniff the Hall of Fame get their numbers hung up because of what they meant locally. That's also why you see coaches, owners and even PA guys have "numbers" retired. Hell I think Sacramento has #6 retired for their fans as "their sixth man". If you go just by numbers, then no, Bruce would not qualify and neither would AJ but because of what they meant to the Spurs franchise, their fans and the city of San Antonio, they both deserve to be up there. IMO, it not a matter of if Bruce's number is retired but when.

They might not want to retire it this year until they're absolutely sure they're not going to bring Bowen back for the playoff run. You never know what can happen during the season; if they decided they needed him back as a safety net or whatever it would be weird to have him playing with his jersey already up in the rafters.

If at some point during this season they decide they're set and they won't bring him back for the postseason, they need to retire it.

Bruce Bowen was an All-Star. He just played in an era where the noticeable statistics do no justice to defensive oriented players. Years from today he will be remembered as a great example of being an All-Star on the other side of the ball does payoff.

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Originally Posted by Thompson

They might not want to retire it this year until they're absolutely sure they're not going to bring Bowen back for the playoff run. You never know what can happen during the season; if they decided they needed him back as a safety net or whatever it would be weird to have him playing with his jersey already up in the rafters.

If at some point this during this season they decide they're set and they won't bring him back for the postseason, they need to retire it.

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Bruce said he's done and he won't be changing his mind.

500 + mostly hating responses on ESPN's article about Bruce retiring...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4442293

:loser are celebrating...

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Originally Posted by bishopospurs

Bruce should definitely get his jersey retired, but I have to disagree that he as better than Sean. Bruce was a better defender obviously, but Sean was an amazing offensive player as well as being a solid defender.

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Sean wasn't dominant on either side of the ball...Bruce was on the defensive side.

And Bruce also is the guy that lead the NBA in 3 shooting....

I love Elliott, unquestionably he was more talented than Bruce, and he was a great defensive player in his own right, but Bruce was more dominant night in and night out, and had more impact on wins and losses.



I mean that last season first round exit....is it just a coincidence it happened the same season Bruce was no longer a major part of the rotation?

I don't really think it is. The last time Bruce was injured(in his first season
) the Spurs turned into a completely different team while he was out.


Richard Jefferson is not going to be as dominant as Bruce was either....might as well start lowering the expectations on that front right now.

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Originally Posted by timvp

It would be a travesty if #12 isn't up in the rafters by the end of this coming season.

Bowen > Elliott >> AJ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Johnny Moore

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greater then aj yes

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Originally Posted by timvp

It would be a travesty if #12 isn't up in the rafters by the end of this coming season.

Bowen > Elliott >> AJ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Johnny Moore

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I agree.

Zarko Paspalj after smoking a pack of cigarettes > Carl Herrera > AJ

There should be no fucking doubt about #12 rising to the rafters.


Without Bruce we have AT LEAST 1 less title.

I wasn't 100% w/ the AJ retirement, but Bowen ABSOLUTELY needs to get his jersey hanging from the rafters. He personified those 3 championships and was a great community guy.

Normally, the people that look at statistics would see a stat line like this and see nothing special:
Career PPG RPG APG FG% MPG
.........7.4...3.5...4.3...38.7..25.9

How could a player with these types of numbers be considered to have his number retired?

Normally, a fair question unless you realize that this player was a "specialist" and served as a defensive stopper. Even then, most people would say that a "specialist" with these numbers was a role player and not a star worthy of a number in the rafters, much less be considered as a hall of fame candidate. That is, until you realize those are the career numbers of #25 KC Jones.

Bruce Bowen had similar unspectacular numbers. He played during the golden era of his team, where typically more #s are retired following such eras, and deservedly so. In a league of 32 teams, winning 3 championships is impressive. San Antonio may never see another run like it has seen the past decade. As people look at the rafters in 2025 (if the Mayans and Nostradamas were wrong & the world hasn't ended by then)...will enough truly great players have worn a Spurs' jersey with contributions toward a championship that equal Bruce Bowen's? The 500 consecutive games as starter guarding the NBA's greatest scorers. The 3-pt accuracy. Blocking a key shot to win another championship can be just as important as hitting the winning shot and that is just a part of Bowen's championship legacy. We may have seen one of the greatest Spurs during this era, or any era, in #12.

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Originally Posted by timvp

It would be a travesty if #12 isn't up in the rafters by the end of this coming season.

Bowen > Elliott >> AJ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Johnny Moore

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Respectfully disagree. Elliott was a much better offensive player than Bruce and a two time all star. Bruce was a better defender but not by much in my book. I do agree that Bowen is better than AJ and Moore. I still am not sure why Moore got his jersey retired. There are better spurs who have not been considered.

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Originally Posted by urunobili

500 + mostly hating responses on ESPN's article about Bruce retiring...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4442293

:loser are celebrating...

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and if Bowen was on their team it would be different.

Bruce was one of those guys that you loved on your team and hated on someone else's.

Bowen>Elliott?Give me a fucking break.

If Im the Spurs I honor Bruce and give him a huge ceremony, but I dont retire his jersey. Bruce was a role player an important one but a roleplayer nontheless. There have to be some standards for retiring a players jersey, only franchise-type players and some all-stars should be up there. I agree that AJ and Moore were average, but the Spurs organization wasnt what it is today when those two players played here. We've become the 3rd winningnest franchise in terms of % and the 4th winningnest in terms of titles. Celtics and Lakers dont retire just any teams jersey, think of it this way...will the Lakers retire Fisher's, Horry's, or Fox's? All very important to their sucess but no way will they get their numbers retired. The Spurs shouldnt retire Bowen's either.

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Originally Posted by FkLA

Bowen>Elliott?Give me a fucking break.

If Im the Spurs I honor Bruce and give him a huge ceremony, but I dont retire his jersey. Bruce was a role player an important one but a roleplayer nontheless. There have to be some standards for retiring a players jersey, only franchise-type players and some all-stars should be up there. I agree that AJ and Moore were average, but the Spurs organization wasnt what it is today when those two players played here. We've become the 3rd winningnest franchise in terms of % and the 4th winningnest in terms of titles. Celtics and Lakers dont retire just any teams jersey, think of it this way...will the Lakers retire Fisher's, Horry's, or Fox's? All very important to their sucess but no way will they get their numbers retired. The Spurs shouldnt retire Bowen's either.

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And Bruce has played some of the best perimeter defense in NBA history, not to mention been a reliable 3 shooter, for just about all that time they've been making that climb.


Bruce has been named to 8 All NBA D Teams , including 6 First Teams, in a row.

That's very uncommon, especially for a purely perimeter player and something matched only by a handfull of players in NBA history.


Condsder this, Ben Wallace is arguably the defensive player of the decade(regardless of position), he made 6 All NBA D teams.

Ron Artest? He's made 4.



The only perimeter defenders with more than Bruce?



Miichael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Jason Kidd, and Gary Payton all have 9...

Scottie Pippen has 10.


And that's it...and everyone of those guys is going to have their jersey hanging...they'll also be in the HOF.


And unlike them, people weren't putting Bruce on that team because of his offensive numbers, or because they loved him, he was on there entirely for his defense and nothing else.




Bruce is deserving of having his jersey retired by the Spurs, especially because they won with defense and he's on the shortlist of the greatest perimeter defenders ever.

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Originally Posted by FkLA

Bowen>Elliott?Give me a fucking break.

If Im the Spurs I honor Bruce and give him a huge ceremony, but I dont retire his jersey. Bruce was a role player an important one but a roleplayer nontheless. There have to be some standards for retiring a players jersey, only franchise-type players and some all-stars should be up there. I agree that AJ and Moore were average, but the Spurs organization wasnt what it is today when those two players played here. We've become the 3rd winningnest franchise in terms of % and the 4th winningnest in terms of titles. Celtics and Lakers dont retire just any teams jersey, think of it this way...will the Lakers retire Fisher's, Horry's, or Fox's? All very important to their sucess but no way will they get their numbers retired. The Spurs shouldnt retire Bowen's either.

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Ah a true 2003 and on Spurs fan.

Walk into the middle of 410.

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Originally Posted by EricB

Ah a true 2003 and on Spurs fan.

Walk into the middle of 410.

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Is that where you were for the $25 draft?

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Originally Posted by FkLA

Bowen>Elliott?Give me a fucking break.

If Im the Spurs I honor Bruce and give him a huge ceremony, but I dont retire his jersey. Bruce was a role player an important one but a roleplayer nontheless. There have to be some standards for retiring a players jersey, only franchise-type players and some all-stars should be up there. I agree that AJ and Moore were average, but the Spurs organization wasnt what it is today when those two players played here. We've become the 3rd winningnest franchise in terms of % and the 4th winningnest in terms of titles. Celtics and Lakers dont retire just any teams jersey, think of it this way...will the Lakers retire Fisher's, Horry's, or Fox's? All very important to their sucess but no way will they get their numbers retired. The Spurs shouldnt retire Bowen's either.

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No Bowen, no titles (outside of 99 of course). Can the same be said for Elliott?

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Originally Posted by Agloco

No Bowen, no titles (outside of 99 of course). Can the same be said for Elliott?

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MDM killed the Blazers, so he was key in 99.

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Originally Posted by whottt

And Bruce has played some of the best perimeter defense in NBA history, not to mention been a reliable 3 shooter, for just about all that time they've been making that climb.


Bruce has been named to 8 All NBA D Teams , including 6 First Teams, in a row.

That's very uncommon, especially for a purely perimeter player and something matched only by a handfull of players in NBA history.


Condsder this, Ben Wallace is arguably the defensive player of the decade(regardless of position), he made 6 All NBA D teams.

Ron Artest? He's made 4.



The only perimeter defenders with more than Bruce?



Miichael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Jason Kidd, and Gary Payton all have 9...

Scottie Pippen has 10.


And that's it...and everyone of those guys is going to have their jersey hanging...they'll also be in the HOF.


And unlike them, people weren't putting Bruce on that team because of his offensive numbers, or because they loved him, he was on there entirely for his defense and nothing else.




Bruce is deserving of having his jersey retired by the Spurs, especially because they won with defense and he's on the shortlist of the greatest perimeter defenders ever.

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Dont get me wrong, Bruce was an a great great defensive player but he was also put into the perfect system...a defensive system that has always been anchored by Timmy btw and in which Timmy has always been the best defensive player. Bruce didnt make the Spurs a defensive team, he simply came in and played a big role in our system. That 99' was arguably our best defensive team and there was no Bruce in it. He was a huge part of our defensive schemes but he wasnt what made it run people need to quit acting like thats the case, Timmy is what has made the Spurs be the best defensive team over the last 10 yrs.

As far as comparing him to other great defensive players who have had their jersey retired, Bowen was way too limited offensively to even be compared to those guys...basketball is played on two sides of the ball. Outside of his corner shot Bowen had no offensive game whatsoever, those players you brought up were some of the best in their respective postitions on both sides of the ball.

Point is Bowen was a role player, an important one yes...but a role player nonetheless. With their run the last 10 yrs the Spurs have become one of the most historic franchises in the NBA, standards have to be held for retiring of jerseys. Boston and the Lakers dont retire a role player's jersey today I assure u that much. Fisher has been absolutely huge for the Lakers and has been a starter for four titles this decade...thats more than Bowen. Do you think he even has a remote chance of getting his #2 retired? Hell no.

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Originally Posted by EricB

Ah a true 2003 and on Spurs fan.

Walk into the middle of 410.

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What a moron, wouldnt a 2003+ Spurs fan be more inclined to want Bruce in? You know since he's been a part of every title team since than...and because theyll probably buy into the notion portrayed by Bowen-nuthuggers that Bruce is what made the Spurs such a great defensive unit. Completely ignoring the fact that the 99' team was probably the best defensive unit this Spurs team has had (no Bowen) and the fact that this team was a great defensive team even before Bruce.

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Originally Posted by Agloco

No Bowen, no titles (outside of 99 of course). Can the same be said for Elliott?

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Spurs were a great defensive team before Bruce, he held alot of stars to subpar numbers and Im not denying his contributions...but u cant just assume shit like this. The 99' Spurs had no great defensive stopper like Bowen and they still played stiffling defense. What made the Spurs such a great defensive unit was not solely Bruce, the system anchored by Timmy was what made this possible.

Here is why we won 3 titles with Bruce.......
2003...the Kobe stopper...Kobe worked his a off to get his shots...Also the record 3's he hit in Game 2 of the 2nd Round.
2005 Bruce's block on Billups pull-up shot in Game 7 of the Finals in the waining mins....(many fans... forget this)
2007 Lebron plays like Crap in the Finals...and who defended him... resulting in a sweep? Don't forget the clutch 3 he hit vs Phx in the 2nd round of Game 5

....This gave the Spurs a mental edge...when he kicked Allen, racked Nash, and gave other players misery.....

NUFF Said....Retire his Jersey.....he earned it!!!!!

Worst starting small forward in the league. :)

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Originally Posted by Agloco

No Bowen, no titles (outside of 99 of course). Can the same be said for Elliott?

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The 99 Spurs shut down Kobe in 4 games.

I am good with retiring his jersey. Bruce was a great player. But he was not the best SF in Spurs history. There are several players that should have their jersey retired. How about Gilmore and Kenon?

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Originally Posted by elbamba

The 99 Spurs shut down Kobe in 4 games.

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Really? You're going to compare 1999 Kobe with 2003 Kobe? Really?

Its just a matter of time. Bruce epitomized Spurs basketball and was an outstanding civic personality. Some things are best savored after the passage of time.

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Bowen played exquisitely to type

Steve Aschburner

There is an old saying about Hollywood, career arcs and directors' casting demands that goes something like this: "Get me Denzel Washington! Get me a Denzel Washington-type! Get me a young Denzel Washington!" I'm reminded of that today, in the wake of Bruce Bowen's decision to retire after 12 proud (for him and his) and punishing (for opponents) NBA seasons.

Bowen, 38, won't make it into the Hall of Fame. He might have to wait to see his jersey number retired by the Spurs, the team he helped to championships in 2003, '05 and '07. But he exits the playing scene having achieved a distinction that only a special handful has managed in league history: Bruce Bowen leaves as an archetype.

There have been far fewer pro-basketball archetypes across the years than there have been Springfield inductees, Top 50 honorees, All-NBA selections or certainly All-Stars. Only those with special games, styles or bundles of skills need apply. Yet it can't be so rare that it veers into one-of-a-kind territory; there has to be some opportunity for others to follow down that particular path, prototype first, copies later. In other words, we're talking about a player who is unique -- but not too unique (sorry, vocabulary sticklers).

A simple way to gauge this is to stick "-type" onto the back end of a player's name and see if it means something to a typical NBA fan. Consider Larry Bird. Anytime a multitalented frontcourt player taller than 6-foot-8 comes along -- whether it's Detlef Schrempf, Tom Gugliotta, Christian Laettner or Dirk Nowitzki -- the phrase "Larry Bird-type" gets tossed out there by somebody. Usually, somebody is wrong. But we all know what he or she meant.

For a while in the 1980s and '90s, teams actively sought "Magic Johnson types," which was supposed to flood the league with really tall point guards who, charisma aside, could run their teams while peering over the top of the defense. That didn't work so well and it has less to do with Jalen Rose's results than the scarcity of Johnson's total game.

Going further back, coach Don Nelson made Paul Pressey the pioneer of "point forwards" when they were together in Milwaukee, but Scottie Pippen is the guy who can lay claim to "-type" status for how he and the Bulls' coaching staff refined the role. Sometimes it's shorthand -- saying a John Stockton-type or a Kevin Garnett-type conjures instant images. Sometimes it's, er, longhand -- UConn's 7-3 Hasheem Thabeet was talked of at draft time as a possible "Dikembe Mutombo-type" for what might be shot-blocking prowess but limited scoring skills. Sometimes it's negative -- a Byron Houston-type, besides being obscure, is a great low-post scorer in college who isn't big enough to play that way in the NBA. As opposed to, y'know, an Adrian Dantley-type.

Mostly, though, it's positive, which is the case with Bowen. Actually, Bowen's backstory could serve as a prototype as well, standing for all those players who went undrafted by an NBA team out of a school such as Cal State Fullerton, knocked around Europe and the CBA, got signed and waived a time or three, then finally found a home and a career at age 30 (Bowen landed in San Antonio as a free agent in 2001). But it is his front story -- as in, in other guys' faces, right up in their grills -- that we think of now.

What Bowen brought to the Spurs was every bit as essential during their run of titles and Finals appearances, particularly to coach Gregg Popovich, as the playmaking and scoring of Tony Parker, the creativity of Manu Ginobili and the fundamental wonderfulness of Tim Duncan. He was the starch in their black-and-silver shorts, the guy assigned to thwart the other team's most potent scorer and the San Antonio player who invariably became the lightning rod of abuse and invective for fans of 29 other teams.

Sufferers such as Kobe Bryant, Ray Allen, Steve Nash and Nowitzki directed our attention to Bowen's feet (allegedly stepping underneath jump shooters), legs (kicking into his man) and knees (aimed at quadriceps and groins), but I'll always remember his hands flailing around and about the ball-handler like the NHL's Sean Avery pestering Martin Brodeur or, as Phil Jackson said, Edward Scissorhands.

Dirty? At times it sure looked that way -- and Bowen was too good an athlete to pass those moments off as being clumsy. But he was tough, consistent and almost Eddie Haskell-like in his placid expressions through the most physical encounters. And like a single spoonful of castor oil, a little went a long way -- the idea of being guarded by Bowen seemed as distasteful to many NBA stars as the actual experience of it, given his reputation for making an opponent work. That alone made Bowen and the Spurs more effective.

Bowen was named to the All-Defensive team in each of his first eight full NBA seasons. He was runner-up three times for Defensive Player of the Year, though he never won the award that's worthy of being named after him. That doesn't really matter -- what matters is that teams determined to chase a championship feel compelled these days to find a "Bruce Bowen-type" of guy: a clingy, even irritating defender who, for long stretches or whole nights, can negate a dangerous weapon from the other guys' arsenal. Now, from Raja Bell to James Posey, from Trevor Ariza to Jamario Moon, every alleged contender needs someone like Bowen if it expects to be taken seriously.

Some of the players are slightly different in size or build (Matt Barnes, Reggie Evans, Mickael Pietrus). Some, such as Tayshaun Prince, Shane Battier, Ron Artest, Ariza and DeShawn Stevenson, have other skills or attributes at their disposal, occasionally luring them away from Bowen-type duty. But then, Bowen himself never was just a defender, frequently stepping into the corners for a key three-point shot. What they all share at their best, though, is a defense-first focus that the NBA as a whole seems to welcome only in limited quantities, no more than one or two per roster, while coaches, purists and home-team fans welcome them wherever they can find them. Because Bowen reminded us we should.

Summing up his career in his retirement session with reporters, Bowen said: "I hope my legacy would be as someone that never was satisfied with just being where they were."

His legacy goes well beyond that. From inside the offensive man's jersey and head, all the way to "-type" status.

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They should name the DPOY after him! Like that will ever happen...

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Originally Posted by Gervin44Silas13

Here is why we won 3 titles with Bruce.......
2003...the Kobe stopper...Kobe worked his a off to get his shots...Also the record 3's he hit in Game 2 of the 2nd Round.
2005 Bruce's block on Billups pull-up shot in Game 7 of the Finals in the waining mins....(many fans... forget this)
2007 Lebron plays like Crap in the Finals...and who defended him... resulting in a sweep? Don't forget the clutch 3 he hit vs Phx in the 2nd round of Game 5

....This gave the Spurs a mental edge...when he kicked Allen, racked Nash, and gave other players misery.....

NUFF Said....Retire his Jersey.....he earned it!!!!!

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He was our starting SF and was logging heavy minutes, of course he contributed noone is denying that...I just think its stupid to assume that w/o him we dont win titles. As if he is what made our defensive system go or something, again in 99' the Spurs played some stingy ass defense. That's arguably the best defensive team we've had, and Elie or Elliott werent defensive stoppers like Bruce. Bowen was replaceable, a weaker defender could step in and offset that with better offense cause Bruce's offense was almost non-existant aside from his corner shot...sometimes even a liability. Btw Bowen has never been a Kobe stopper. Noone can stop Kobe, look at his numbers against us he always puts up like 35 ppg.

Give him a big ass ceremony but save the jersey retirements for guys like Duncan, Parker, and Manu.

Couldn't agree more FkLA.

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I just think its stupid to assume that w/o him we dont win titles

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Name me a defender the Spurs had that could've replaced Bowen.

Please, humor me with the gigantic fail you will stumble upon trying to stammer at answering this.

Retiring AJs set a precident where they have to retire Bowen's. Bowen's contributions >>>>>> AJ's

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Originally Posted by EricB

Name me a defender the Spurs had that could've replaced Bowen.

Please, humor me with the gigantic fail you will stumble upon trying to stammer at answering this.

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Bowen was a replaceable player, and Im not solely talking about someone that was already on the rosters during those yrs...theres also be the possibility of FA signings.

No doubt Bowen was one of a kind and the Spurs wouldve been hard-pressed to find another perimeter defender as good as him, but a good not great defender couldve come in and done just fine. Especially if that guy was a solid offensive player than the points would likely offset, cause Bowen's offense was non-existant and sometimes even a liability. Pop's system is what makes this shit work and Tim Duncan has always been the key to that defensive system not Bruce.

Look at it this way, Robinson was a great defender and we still managed to win titles with fgts like Nazr Mohammed and Fabricio Oberto at Center after he retired...so u Bowen nuthuggers are saying we can lose one of the best defensive big men of all-time and win titles but if we were to replace Bruce everything would fall apart and 03', 05', and 07' wouldnt have been possible?No, be fucking real...the Spurs were a good defensive team before Bruce, were a good defensive team with Bruce, and will continue to be a good defensive team after Bruce.

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Originally Posted by Whisky Dog

Retiring AJs set a precident where they have to retire Bowen's. Bowen's contributions >>>>>> AJ's

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The thing is, the Spurs have become much more recognized since AJ's days here...their run the last 10 yrs have turned them into one of the NBA's most historic franchises. Historic franchises dont just retire anybody's jersey, especially role players'. Spurs need to save that honor for Tim, Tony, and Manu.