The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

When you're a fan of sports, sometimes you just have to accept that the more popular teams are going to catch heavy breaks, and this is all this was for the Lakers..there's nothing we fans can do about it except cheer against them..we all love the sport so much that we keep watching, even though it's kind of obvious what was going on at the time..

Incidents like this one, the game 6 vs. Sacramento, and many others, are what makes Laker fans the most defensive fans in sports..they always have to make excuses and give reasons that really aren't logical, and sometimes don't make any sense at all..

Laker fans main excuse for the Gasol trade was that "they were ahead of the curve" when it came to salary dumps..that Kupchak started them before anybody..it's funny, because RIGHT BEFORE THAT, everybody that liked the Lakers was calling for Kupchak's head and throwing him under the bus..all of a sudden he had this master plan that nobody else in the NBA could pull off..

I also hear them compare it to the RJ trade..comparing a top 40-50 swingman, to an undisputed top 15 player in the NBA that plays arguably the most important role in basketball, which is the star big man..

I also hear Marc Gasol mentioned LOL..Marc Gasol's ceiling is a good role player..I respect his game, but that's clearly all that he's going to be in this league..

Kobe asks for a trade, the league gets scared..they wait on shit because the Lakers start off surprisingly well, and Andrew Bynum looks like he's going to break out and become a future star..Bynum goes down, so everybody makes their move..the league looks to the team that has ties with Jerry West, the former Laker and logo of the NBA, and their owner and management gets extorted for a deal where they get NOTHING in return except for a future role player in Marc Gasol, and salary that ended up being used on Zach Randolph and Allen Iverson, 2 of the biggest no-defense playing black holes in NBA history..


I used to get angry about it, but I've gotten over it..when it comes to sports, and even life in general, the rich kids will always get the breaks..

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:tu

well said

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Originally Posted by 21_Blessings

Marc Gasol was winning MVPs in Europe at the time. Not a known commodity my ass. Stop lying to yourself.

Not only that, Memphis also received 3 first round picks overall. Traded Crittenton for one, drafted Arthur (which has developed into a solid player) and still have one more.

How are you defending the Jefferson trade again? That's right you can't. Memphis actually got young talent + cap space back in the deal. The Bucks only received cap relief. Winner Memphis. Especially when you factor in Gasol pushing for a trade in the first place and the fan base wanting him gone.

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here's one of them.

The curious thing about this is that if the same trade was offered to the Spurs, for say, Fabricio Oberto and some bench scrubs, not one of you Spurs fans would reject or denounce the trade in some kind of hypothetical "good sportsmanship". Greg Popovic would have been all over that like white on rice, and the entire Spurs fan base would be telling the rest of the sports world to get over it.

Yet you guys act as if we are terrible people for not lambasting the trade or the owners who made it happen, and act as if simply remaining a fan of the team is tantamount to a felony crime. Hilarious how many stand up on their soapbox when they would be frothing at the mouth given the opportunity to do the same thing. Guess thats how life is.

I dont defend the trade. It was bs and absurdly lopsided. But I dont have to defend it. Someone gave us an opportunity and we took it. I root for my team and when good things happen for us i'm happy, not outraged because i'm on some pseudo-ethical high horse, like some.

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Originally Posted by picc84

The curious thing about this is that if the same trade was offered to the Spurs, for say, Fabricio Oberto and some bench scrubs, not one of you Spurs fans would reject or denounce the trade in some kind of hypothetical "good sportsmanship". Greg Popovic would have been all over that like white on rice, and the entire Spurs fan base would be telling the rest of the sports world to get over it.

Yet you guys act as if we are terrible people for not lambasting the trade or the owners who made it happen, and act as if simply remaining a fan of the team is tantamount to a felony crime. Hilarious how many stand up on their soapbox when they would be frothing at the mouth given the opportunity to do the same thing. Guess thats how life is.

I dont defend the trade. It was bs and absurdly lopsided. But I dont have to defend it. Someone gave us an opportunity and we took it. I root for my team and when good things happen for us i'm happy, not outraged because i'm on some pseudo-ethical high horse, like some.

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the question is the spurs never got that offer from memphis...

lakers own spurs get over it. Were the Lakers and we DGAF. Whats our record against you guys in the playoffs? thats what i thought...

Its sad because it destroyed what could of been an immensely competitive post season in the west.

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Originally Posted by picc84

The curious thing about this is that if the same trade was offered to the Spurs, for say, Fabricio Oberto and some bench scrubs, not one of you Spurs fans would reject or denounce the trade in some kind of hypothetical "good sportsmanship". Greg Popovic would have been all over that like white on rice, and the entire Spurs fan base would be telling the rest of the sports world to get over it.

Yet you guys act as if we are terrible people for not lambasting the trade or the owners who made it happen, and act as if simply remaining a fan of the team is tantamount to a felony crime. Hilarious how many stand up on their soapbox when they would be frothing at the mouth given the opportunity to do the same thing. Guess thats how life is.

I dont defend the trade. It was bs and absurdly lopsided. But I dont have to defend it. Someone gave us an opportunity and we took it. I root for my team and when good things happen for us i'm happy, not outraged because i'm on some pseudo-ethical high horse, like some.

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I don't feel that anyone here is expecting Lakers' fans to "lambaste" anyone or anything, because you can bet that every fan on this board (regardless of the team they follow) would be ecstatic if their team made the trade in place of the Lakers. I know that if the Spurs had the opportunity to pull that type of deal back then, I would have been very disappointed had they rejected it. I believe that non-Laker fans are ridiculing those that defend the trade as fair and an understandable deal from a business sense. You obviously don't in the post above, but the majority of Laker fans do.

As for the Richard Jefferson trade being used as a comparison - the reasons that the comparison doesn't stick has already been posted. Gasol is an elite big man that has never been labeled as "overpaid". Jefferson is a great player, but is nowhere near the level of a Pau Gasol - and he has an albatross of a contract that still has several years left. Don't get me wrong, because I still like the Jefferson trade and I am pleased that the Spurs FO is showing a commitment to be competitive even if it means going into Salary Cap Hell. But to compare the two trades as remotely similar (or the Shaq trade to Cleveland, for that matter) is laughable.

I've seen Spurs fans ask Laker fans how "we can live with ourselves" winning a title after a "collusion" trade like that. I've seen Spurs fans act as if we should have boycotted the franchise for it. I've seen Spurs fans tell Laker fans we should "be ashamed at the way we had to win".

I assume they say these things because Spurs fans hold themselves to such a high standard of never-never-land business and sportmanship ethics that had Gasol been traded for Oberto and Jacque Vaghn, they would have renounced the franchise and boycotted the championship parade that would have followed. The streets would have been completely barren as the Spurs championship buses rode along the Riverwalk, disgusted and ashamed Spurs fans' spending the time instead sending letters of disapproval to their front office and requesting refunds on their season tickets.

Alas, we Laker fans dont have this kind of San Antonio class and pride, so we celebrate positive opportunities for the franchise and the fruits they bear, instead of renouncing them, and we're reminded of our lack of sportsmanship every time one of these "OMG the Gasol trade again" thread pops up.

May the basketball gods forgive us.




















































:lobt2:

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Originally Posted by Kindergarten Cop

As for the Richard Jefferson trade being used as a comparison - the reasons that the comparison doesn't stick has already been posted. Gasol is an elite big man that has never been labeled as "overpaid". Jefferson is a great player, but is nowhere near the level of a Pau Gasol - and he has an albatross of a contract that still has several years left. Don't get me wrong, because I still like the Jefferson trade and I am pleased that the Spurs FO is showing a commitment to be competitive even if it means going into Salary Cap Hell. But to compare the two trades as remotely similar (or the Shaq trade to Cleveland, for that matter) is laughable.

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Gasol was labeled as overpaid, injury prone and was constantly whining and bitching the last couple years he was in Memphis. No one considered him a top tier player. 0-12 in the playoffs.

Acting like the Jefferson trade isn't similar is the only thing that is laughable here. 20 ppg wing scorer traded for complete crap. Pure salary dump. At least Memphis got 3 young players AND cap space in the deal.

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Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY

the question is the spurs never got that offer from memphis...

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Gasol was on the trade block for over a year. Acting like the trade came out of nowhere is hilarious.

It was shady as hell. So what? I would've loved for San Antonio to be on the Pau end of that trade, shady or not.

fixed

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Originally Posted by picc84

*:lobt2:

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What a bunch of f'n pussy cry-babies...grow up Spurs fans

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Originally Posted by DeadlyDynasty

What a bunch of f'n pussy cry-babies...grow up Laker fans

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Originally Posted by picc84

The curious thing about this is that if the same trade was offered to the Spurs, for say, Fabricio Oberto and some bench scrubs, not one of you Spurs fans would reject or denounce the trade in some kind of hypothetical "good sportsmanship". Greg Popovic would have been all over that like white on rice, and the entire Spurs fan base would be telling the rest of the sports world to get over it.

...I dont defend the trade. It was bs and absurdly lopsided. But I dont have to defend it. Someone gave us an opportunity and we took it. I root for my team and when good things happen for us i'm happy, not outraged because i'm on some pseudo-ethical high horse, like some.

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Thank you, and thank you.

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Originally Posted by The_Game

memphis got Marc Gasol in the Pau trade who has proved to be a very good big man for them.

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Originally Posted by polysylab1k

The Lakers did lost some talents in that trade anyways, some of them like Marc Gasol have already lived up to their values and the latent ones are also expected to bloom off in the near future. I think that is pretty enough to even the trade, and has already made the Gasol trade a whole different story than the trade of Jefferson where the Spurs didn't lose shit, the Spurs only lost some shit for Jefferson at its finest.

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And Shaq isn't fat, he's just big-boned.

Gasol has proven to be a marginal big man for them. Crittenton was considered someone who could potentially develop into a solid (but not special) starting PG. And nobody actually believed that those two first-round picks would amount to anything more than late-first rounders. The only saving grace of the trade was supposed to be Kwame's expiring contract.

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Originally Posted by Hooks

We lost our 2nd best big man-Thomas, and our best defensive player Bruce Bowen, those two guys actually contributed to the Spurs and could still play. We actually gave up someone and took a gamble.


Put it this way, Thomas should've been the starting Center and Bowen should've been the starting SF.

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Uh huh. Take a look at R-Jeff. A top-40 player in the league and someone who can fill it up for 20 to go along with eight or so rebounds any given night. We lost NOTHING in talent. It was purely a trade that gave Milwaukee a chance to start from scratch.



Bottom line is that the Lakers absolutely raped the Grizz on that trade, even with Kwame's expiring $9 mil. What made the trade so lopsided is that the Grizz could've had Luol Deng or Ben Gordon plus some free agent money for Pau.

Would I take that trade? Quick as a heart attack. They got one of the best big men (which is tough to come by) in the league for one expiring contracts and a younger brother who will never be relevant in the NBA.

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Originally Posted by picc84

I've seen Spurs fans ask Laker fans how "we can live with ourselves" winning a title after a "collusion" trade like that. I've seen Spurs fans act as if we should have boycotted the franchise for it. I've seen Spurs fans tell Laker fans we should "be ashamed at the way we had to win".

I assume they say these things because Spurs fans hold themselves to such a high standard of never-never-land business and sportmanship ethics that had Gasol been traded for Oberto and Jacque Vaghn, they would have renounced the franchise and boycotted the championship parade that would have followed. The streets would have been completely barren as the Spurs championship buses rode along the Riverwalk, disgusted and ashamed Spurs fans' spending the time instead sending letters of disapproval to their front office and requesting refunds on their season tickets.

Alas, we Laker fans dont have this kind of San Antonio class and pride, so we celebrate positive opportunities for the franchise and the fruits they bear, instead of renouncing them, and we're reminded of our lack of sportsmanship every time one of these "OMG the Gasol trade again" thread pops up.

May the basketball gods forgive us.

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I can't speak for the fans that are you are talking about here in this post, but I can pretty much assure you that they are just doing it to rile your feathers. You can bet that they would be defending the trade had it gone to the team that they root for - but I can almost guarantee that a majority of the Lakers' fans would be attacking the team that pulled off the deal had it not been the Lakers that traded for Gasol and the team that traded for his services won a championship because of it. The Spurs get unjustly criticized on this forum for having their best players injured for the bulk of a season and getting the top overall pick (even when they didn't even finish with the best odds to get the top pick). Now that is reaching, wouldn't you agree?

IMHO, the Laker fans have nothing to hang their heads over or they need not feel guilty for anything. They simply got one over on the Grizzlies and benefited immensely from the lopsided deal. As I said earlier, I would have been disappointed had the Spurs rejected a similar deal had it been offered to them.

WGAF? The only reason this is such a big deal is because:

1) The trade was seemingly not made available to everyone, despite some Laker fans protests

2) Because Memphis just traded for a worse, just as expensive version of Gasol in Randolph, which makes their initial reasons for doing the trade bogus. If they were going to rebuild, rebuild. Don't give away a guy then take on someone worse. Just stupid.

It is over, and now teams have to adjust. Get over it.

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Originally Posted by Kindergarten Cop

I can't speak for the fans that are you are talking about here in this post, but I can pretty much assure you that they are just doing it to rile your feathers.

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That is a nice (I guess) thought, but I don't think thats the case. Fans who have made posts like that, and it has happened a LOT, seem to genuinely believe they are right and are judging in the spirit of sportsmanship.

Thats why I question how much self-awareness these people have, and if they have ever considered that their reaction should a similar trade happen for the Spurs would be one directly contradictory to what they chide us Lakers fans for.

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but I can almost guarantee that a majority of the Lakers' fans would be attacking the team that pulled off the deal had it not been the Lakers that traded for Gasol and the team that traded for his services won a championship because of it. The Spurs get unjustly criticized on this forum for having their best players injured for the bulk of a season and getting the top overall pick (even when they didn't even finish with the best odds to get the top pick). Now that is reaching, wouldn't you agree?

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I would agree, yes. I don't think its fair or logical to expect fans to ever feel negatively about their favorite team moving in a positive direction. I personally think that tanking a season for a top lottery pick is much more of an offense than simply accepting a trade proposal another team agrees to, but would I ever attempt to tell Spurs fans how they are supposed to feel about it? Or that they should feel less enthusiastic about their franchise because of it?

No.

You are the fans. You root for your team and hope for, and accept, the best whenever it presents itself. I only wish more of you guys would apply the same principle externally.

One last thought. For a team that prides itself on class, hard work, and determination to make things work no matter what, all this persistent complaining about the Gasol trade is a bad reflection on what the Spurs franchise is supposed to represent. The players heard about the trade and probably thought, "Ok, I guess we need to just work that much harder. Its spilled milk now and it presents a challenge that we as professionals are going to have to rise to and exceed." I know thats what Duncan thought. I know its what Bowen thought. Probably Parker too.

But here their fans are, 2 years later, still dwelling on the opportunities lost when the trade happened instead of focusing on the opportunities that are ahead of them. You have a great team, a revamped team. Why not look forward to the challenge and watching your team respond to it instead of posting this same thread what seems like every 2 weeks.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

1) The trade was seemingly not made available to everyone, despite some Laker fans protests

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Bullshit. Everybody knew Gasol was on the block. Dating back to a year previous when the Chicago rumors were flying.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

2) Because Memphis just traded for a worse, just as expensive version of Gasol in Randolph, which makes their initial reasons for doing the trade bogus.

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Memphis got three other players out of the deal. Two have panned out to decent players and one has yet to be drafted.

Coming from a fan of a team that blatantly tanked for Tim Duncan your lack of understanding how to rebuild is pretty funny. If Memphis had kept Pau they wouldn't have OJ Mayo right now. It's the reason the Spurs rode Robinson's injury that entire year when tanking for Duncan instead of bringing him back.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

If they were going to rebuild, rebuild. Don't give away a guy then take on someone worse. Just stupid.

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Pau did not want to be in Memphis. Why would they keep him when he clearly wanted out and the fanbase didn't want him there? Memphis now has a strong young core and trading for Randolph won't change. Besides, who says he can't be moved again? We already saw how valuable expiring contracts are. Memphis is obviously not contending for a couple years but if their young guys develop, Randolph's expiring can be moved down the line to fill the holes.

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Originally Posted by picc84

I've seen Spurs fans ask Laker fans how "we can live with ourselves" winning a title after a "collusion" trade like that. I've seen Spurs fans act as if we should have boycotted the franchise for it. I've seen Spurs fans tell Laker fans we should "be ashamed at the way we had to win".

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:lmao

Yes, a very one-sided trade. Pro sports has seen plenty of those. And, yes, the Grizzlies have since made themselves look like fools by using the same kind of money on Z-Bo. That makes them idiots, but a conspiracy? :rolleyes

Who gives a fuck?

It's time to make some real history. One for the thumb. Win an even year title. Lastly, be the 1st team to prevent a Phil Jackson coached team from repeating.

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Originally Posted by 21_Blessings

Spurs fans have no ground to stand on here when they got Jefferson for a couple cigarette butts. Or maybe you guys could blatantly tank your season for the 1st pick in the draft again.

Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.

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People who aren't Spurs fans complaining about the Spurs "tanking" to get Tim Duncan is exactly the same thing as anti-Lakers fans talking about how lopsided the Gasol deal was. It all boils down to envy that these teams have a badass big man in the middle. And how many times does a team "tank" their season and fail to get the #1 pick? Everyone fully expected Duncan to be a Celtic and it's not the Spurs' fault that the greatest PF of all time happened to be in the '97 Draft. It happened 12 years ago...let it go.

And how did Memphis come out a "much bigger winner" than Milwaukee? You've got to be joking. The biggest reason this trade is so laughable is because Aaron McKie was a freakin' assistant coach for Philly when the Lakers convinced him to sign a bullshit contract so that the trade would work under the salary cap. Only the Lakers would be allowed to trade a retired player. Plus, nobody involved in that trade is even in a Memphis uniform right now, except for Marc Gasol (who was a Euro player at the time and nobody knew what he do in the NBA. He was just a piece thrown in that happened to work out).

At least Milwaukee was able to unload Richard Jefferson's bloated contract, got a serviceable big man and will be able to compete for free agents in the summer of 2010.

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Originally Posted by TFloss32

And how did Memphis come out a "much bigger winner" than Milwaukee? You've got to be joking. The biggest reason this trade is so laughable is because Aaron McKie was a freakin' assistant coach for Philly when the Lakers convinced him to sign a bullshit contract so that the trade would work under the salary cap. Only the Lakers would be allowed to trade a retired player. Plus, nobody involved in that trade is even in a Memphis uniform right now, except for Marc Gasol.

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Dallas dealt Keith Van Horn to NJ in the Kidd deal after LA made the move for Gasol. Back in the day, Minny dealt Terrell Brandon to Atlanta in some big deal the same way.

The big thing about Aaron McKie was he wasn't getting paid while working as an asst for Philly. Great move by LA and foresight by McKie's agent.

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At least Milwaukee was able to unload Richard Jefferson's bloated contract, got a serviceable big man and will be able to compete for free agents in the summer of 2010.

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Memphis got cap space as well as dumping a bloated contract (for them since they couldn't win with Pau) as well as getting better than a serviceable big man (Marc better than anyone SA got).

LA got over. No question. That's what pimps do. But the conspiracy talk is hilarious. And West wasn't even part of Memphis at the time the deal was made.

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Originally Posted by 2Cleva

Dallas dealt Keith Van Horn to NJ in the Kidd deal after LA made the move for Gasol. Back in the day, Minny dealt Terrell Brandon to Atlanta in some big deal the same way.

The big thing about Aaron McKie was he wasn't getting paid while working as an asst for Philly. Great move by LA and foresight by McKie's agent.

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Man, you're reaching in the vault for that Terrell Brandon comparison. Point taken, however...I'm referencing Aaron McKie in the Gasol deal because it was a trade that altered the power structure in the Lakers favor (after being mediocre, at best, since Shaq left) and got them to the Finals two years in a row. The other two trades are irrelevant because it didn't help those respective teams to improve at all. Take the Mavs, they've actually gotten worse since Kidd arrived. A perfect example of Mark Cuban's inability to manage personnel...Diop, Harris and two future first rounders for Kidd? It's hilarious that he thought he was the one making out like a bandit when, in reality, it was the complete opposite.

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Originally Posted by 2Cleva

Memphis got cap space as well as dumping a bloated contract (for them since they couldn't win with Pau) as well as getting better than a serviceable big man (Marc better than anyone SA got).

LA got over. No question. That's what pimps do. But the conspiracy talk is hilarious. And West wasn't even part of Memphis at the time the deal was made.

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At least you admit they got over. If that's what pimps do, you can tell 21_Blessings that the Spurs were just "big pimpin" when they drafted Tim Duncan and swung the Richard Jefferson deal. To say that Memphis benefited more than Milwaukee is just ridiculous. Keep reading....

Of course, "conspiracy" is a word that Lakers fans laugh at when talking about the Gasol trade. You have to look at it from the rest of the league's perspective though...

1.) This trade has been deemed the worst, if not the worst, trade in NBA history. However, Lakers fans have somehow convinced themselves that it was legitimate and Memphis benefited. From the 2008 perspective, Gasol was had for essentially a bag of uncertainty. Nobody (in their right mind) trades a franchise player without getting a sure thing in return. You can say, "Well, Marc Gasol worked out!" all you want except nobody knew what he would provide (or if he would even come over). Memphis just got lucky and yet they still sit at the bottom of the standings. Even Kobe referred to the Gasol trade as a "donation."

2.) Many people are suspicious because negotiations were so quiet between the Grizzlies and the Lakers. Other teams that wanted Gasol didn't get a fair shake and even had better proposals on the table. Take Chicago...they were willing to part with Nocioni, Thomas, Noah and Sefolosha. These are all guys that would give Memphis a shot at being competitive. However, Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley said, "we needed a deal that would give us cap space and draft picks." So, he goes for two late first rounders and cap space that will probably never make its way back into the roster? Hmmm...Even if the trade did provide them with signifcant cap space (which it didn't), do you think anyone actually wants to play for a piss poor franchise such as the Memphis Grizzlies? They can't get a decent coach, they're poorly managed and Michael Heisley is one of the worst owners in the league along with Donald Sterling of the Clippers.

3.) To say that Jerry West was involved in the deal is not a stretch by any means. He's a former Laker, extremely close with Mitch Kupchak and Kobe Bryant, close with Michael Heisley and current GM Chris Wallace was his protege and replacement. I'm not saying he was involved, personally, but to say that he knew nothing about the trade before it happened is about as believable as Kevin McHale just happening to trade Garnett to his old team and close buddy, Danny Ainge. At least Minnesota knew they would be getting Al Jefferson in return.

It's not ridiculous for NBA fans to wave their fingers when you consider all angles of that deal.