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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TFloss32
Man, you're reaching in the vault for that Terrell Brandon comparison. Point taken, however...I'm referencing Aaron McKie in the Gasol deal because it was a trade that altered the power structure in the Lakers favor (after being mediocre, at best, since Shaq left) and got them to the Finals two years in a row. The other two trades are irrelevant because it didn't help those respective teams to improve at all. Take the Mavs, they've actually gotten worse since Kidd arrived. A perfect example of Mark Cuban's inability to manage personnel...Diop, Harris and two future first rounders for Kidd? It's hilarious that he thought he was the one making out like a bandit when, in reality, it was the complete opposite.
End result or how good the teams got wasn't the point, as you saw. Just making it clear LA didn't do anything against the rules or wasn't done before and after.
Quote:
At least you admit they got over. If that's what pimps do, you can tell 21_Blessings that the Spurs were just "big pimpin" when they drafted Tim Duncan and swung the Richard Jefferson deal. To say that Memphis benefited more than Milwaukee is just ridiculous. Keep reading....
Of course, "conspiracy" is a word that Lakers fans laugh at when talking about the Gasol trade. You have to look at it from the rest of the league's perspective though...
1.) This trade has been deemed the worst, if not the worst, trade in NBA history. However, Lakers fans have somehow convinced themselves that it was legitimate and Memphis benefited. From the 2008 perspective, Gasol was had for essentially a bag of uncertainty. Nobody (in their right mind) trades a franchise player without getting a sure thing in return. You can say, "Well, Marc Gasol worked out!" all you want except nobody knew what he would provide (or if he would even come over). Memphis just got lucky and yet they still sit at the bottom of the standings. Even Kobe referred to the Gasol trade as a "donation."
2.) Many people are suspicious because negotiations were so quiet between the Grizzlies and the Lakers. Other teams that wanted Gasol didn't get a fair shake and even had better proposals on the table. Take Chicago...they were willing to part with Nocioni, Thomas, Noah and Sefolosha. These are all guys that would give Memphis a shot at being competitive. However, Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley said, "we needed a deal that would give us cap space and draft picks." So, he goes for two late first rounders and cap space that will probably never make its way back into the roster? Hmmm...Even if the trade did provide them with signifcant cap space (which it didn't), do you think anyone actually wants to play for a piss poor franchise such as the Memphis Grizzlies? They can't get a decent coach, they're poorly managed and Michael Heisley is one of the worst owners in the league along with Donald Sterling of the Clippers.
3.) To say that Jerry West was involved in the deal is not a stretch by any means. He's a former Laker, extremely close with Mitch Kupchak and Kobe Bryant, close with Michael Heisley and current GM Chris Wallace was his protege and replacement. I'm not saying he was involved, personally, but to say that he knew nothing about the trade before it happened is about as believable as Kevin McHale just happening to trade Garnett to his old team and close buddy, Danny Ainge. At least Minnesota knew they would be getting Al Jefferson in return.
It's not ridiculous for NBA fans to wave their fingers when you consider all angles of that deal.
Long story short, people hate on the trade because of the Lakers history of success. Caron Butler for Kwame Brown was just as big of a steal for Washington as what LA gave up for Pau.
1 - Its far from the worse trade in NBA history, people just bitch louder and in more media (newspaper, TV, radio, internet) than in the past. But many franchise players are dealt for shit. Iverson (from Philly) and Barkley come to mind.
2 - Most trades that actually get done are kept quiet. How much talk out of SA in the media was about Richard Jefferson before the deal got done?
Re: Memphis - They were stripping the roster because the plan was to sell the team. That was the underlying reason. As for why Chicago didn't get a deal done - Paxson was too much in love with his picks. Thats why he missed out on everyone - KG, Kobe, etc.. and was eventually fired. And Noah was never available for Pau.
3 - The better barometer than West (who was gone) is the actual GM of the Grizz (Chris Wallace) who has made horrible deals in Memphis and in Boston. Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers comes to mind. He's just horrible. West had nothing to do with it.
Only reason why I talk about it is I love the haters try to make excuses instead of recognizing the historical greatness of the Lakers. Wilt. Kareem. Shaq. Gasol. They get shit done.
And taking Duncan 1st wasn't pimping, it was a tank job that paid off. Not the same but skill wasn't involved, luck of the pingpong balls was. Like comparing poker to slot machines.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
I'm not sure I understand the point in rehashing this to any extent. The trade can't be undone because doing so would be impractical and because the league certainly isn't distressed to have it's most favored franchise back in the elite class. It's not the first lopsided trade nor is it the most lopsided trade ever. If a trade like it were deemed problematic to the league, chances are great that the league would have already responded with a rule prohibiting a recurrence - like it did with the Stepien Rule or the rule enacted after Gary Payton's sham trade a few years ago.
There doesn't really seem to be much to discuss.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
The Lakers can keep Gasol. Just give Manu the same calls Kobe gets.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
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Originally Posted by
FromWayDowntown
If a trade like it were deemed problematic to the league
Lakers vs. Celtics final hardly "problematic" to the league no matter how it was achieved
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2Cleva
End result or how good the teams got wasn't the point, as you saw. Just making it clear LA didn't do anything against the rules or wasn't done before and after.
End result actually was the point and that's why people say "conspiracy" and hate on the Lakers...because that trade propeled the Lakers to the NBA Finals two years in a row and Memphis is still a bottom feeder (and will be for some time). This is why I say they didn't benefit at all from the Gasol trade and Lakers fans are kidding themselves if they think a free agent that's worth a damn is going to commit to Memphis. This is also why I said the Jason Kidd and Terrell Brandon trades are irrelevant (when talking about retired players involved in trades) because Aaron McKie was involved in a trade that gave the Lakers a franchise player who (everyone knew) would take them back to the Finals. You're right, they didn't cheat. They worked the system and took advantage of an idiot in Chris Wallace (even if he did receive a nudge from Jerry West).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2Cleva
Long story short, people hate on the trade because of the Lakers history of success. Caron Butler for Kwame Brown was just as big of a steal for Washington as what LA gave up for Pau.
This is neither here nor there because it hasn't had any effect on the league whatsoever. If the Washington Wizards somehow, by the Grace of God, win an NBA title then I guess you could reference this trade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2Cleva
1 - Its far from the worse trade in NBA history, people just bitch louder and in more media (newspaper, TV, radio, internet) than in the past. But many franchise players are dealt for shit. Iverson (from Philly) and Barkley come to mind.
2 - Most trades that actually get done are kept quiet. How much talk out of SA in the media was about Richard Jefferson before the deal got done?
Re: Memphis - They were stripping the roster because the plan was to sell the team. That was the underlying reason. As for why Chicago didn't get a deal done - Paxson was too much in love with his picks. Thats why he missed out on everyone - KG, Kobe, etc.. and was eventually fired. And Noah was never available for Pau.
3 - The better barometer than West (who was gone) is the actual GM of the Grizz (Chris Wallace) who has made horrible deals in Memphis and in Boston. Joe Johnson for Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers comes to mind. He's just horrible. West had nothing to do with it.
1.) It's not far from the worst trade in history. Name a franchise player approaching his prime, or in his prime, that was traded in the modern era to a good team for less than what the Lakers gave to Memphis.
Barkley was traded to Phoenix for Jeff Hornacek and then to Houston (already past his prime at this point) for Sam Cassell and Robert Horry. Iverson was traded to Denver for Andre Miller. Hardly shit...
2.) Nobody was in contention for Jefferson except the Spurs. No other team wanted his contract, especially with the summer of 2010 coming up. Plus, you NEVER know what the Spurs are going to do. What I meant by "quiet" was the Grizzlies were focusing on the Lakers more than any other offer for whatever particular reason.
RE: Chicago- According to this article, http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns, from a reputable AW, Noah was on the table along with Nocioni, Thomas and Sefolosha. The deal wasn't done because Heisley said the Bulls "wouldn't give us any of their good, core players." How do you get more "core player" than that (with the exception of Ben Gordon)? He said they were fielding other offers besides Chicago, but the Lakers "stepped up." There had to be better offers than what the Lakers came to the table with. Heisley and Wallace are, obviously, easily impressionable since they decided to take out L.A.'s trash for Pau Gasol. Kobe was never going to Chicago by the way...
3.) One thing we agree on. Chris Wallace is an idiot and probably always will be. There's a reason Memphis is terrible and it starts at the top with Heisley.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2Cleva
Only reason why I talk about it is I love the haters try to make excuses instead of recognizing the historical greatness of the Lakers. Wilt. Kareem. Shaq. Gasol. They get shit done.
And taking Duncan 1st wasn't pimping, it was a tank job that paid off. Not the same but skill wasn't involved, luck of the pingpong balls was. Like comparing poker to slot machines.
Hey, I'm not hating on the Lakers (even though I despise the arrogance of Kobe and Phil). The league is much less fun when the Lakers suck. You have to beat the best in order to be the best. As a Spurs fan, I would have been smitten if that Gasol trade fell into our lap (like the Jefferson trade did) even though I would have felt that it was unfair and lopsided as hell. You do what you have to do in order to win.
In reference to Duncan, call it tanking, luck, etc. But I wouldn't go as far as making the poker/slot machines analogy when comparing tanking for Duncan and trading for Gasol. It takes about as much effort to tank a season as it does to go up to a stupid owner and GM and say "Hey, will you take all of our shit for your franchise player?" Not much skill involved in either scenario if you ask me. Both teams got what they wanted though.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Oh for fuck's sake Lakers fans are so naive. Where there's smoke there's fire.
GMs publicly complaining their offers were rebuffed.
West had been the GM 6 months prior.
The trade made no sense on its face.
The Lakers used the Grizzlies as their farm team and got away with blatant collusion. The league didn't step in to rescind the deal because because it benefits their ratings. Stern has been quoted as saying his dream finals would be "Lakers vs. Lakers". Lots of teams make somewhat collusive deals with other teams because of former ties or relationships but only the high profile money teams like the Lakers or Boston can get away such flagrantly inside dealings.
It cheapens the league and disgusts other teams but it drives home two very universal themes. Cronyism is a timeless part of human nature and money talks.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
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Originally Posted by
TFloss32
This trade has been deemed the worst, if not the worst, trade in NBA history.
Only by haters. Off the top of my head, here are some more BS trades that led directly to titles:
- Agguire to Detroit in 89
- Drexler to Houston in 95
- Rodman to Chicago in 96, for freaking Will Perdue. Rodman only led the league in boards for the previous 4 years. How is the Gasol trade worse than this giveaway?
- Sheed to Detroit in 04
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TFloss32
Name a franchise player approaching his prime, or in his prime, that was traded in the modern era to a good team for less than what the Lakers gave to Memphis.
Dennis Rodman was in his prime when the Spurs gave him to the Bulls. He wasn't a franchise player, but he was a perfect fit for Chicago and the best in the league at what he did. And everyone already knew what kind of difference a solid PF could make in Chicago. Plus he had already won titles....unlike Gasol who was considered a loser before he got shipped to LA. I might even argue that his rebounding and defense were just as big as what Gasol gives LA, considering the teams the Bulls went through for the 2nd 3-peat (Kemp, Malone, Malone).
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Blazers > Lakers or Spurs
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
21_Blessings
Spurs fans have no ground to stand on here when they got Jefferson for a couple cigarette butts. Or maybe you guys could blatantly tank your season for the 1st pick in the draft again.
Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.
Yea but in order to tank again one of the big 3 has to volunteer to break his foot and be out for the season, my ignorant faker fan. Geez that smog must be filtering thru your earhole.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
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Originally Posted by
kingmalaki
Dennis Rodman was in his prime when the Spurs gave him to the Bulls. He wasn't a franchise player, but he was a perfect fit for Chicago and the best in the league at what he did. And everyone already knew what kind of difference a solid PF could make in Chicago. Plus he had already won titles....unlike Gasol who was considered a loser before he got shipped to LA. I might even argue that his rebounding and defense were just as big as what Gasol gives LA, considering the teams the Bulls went through for the 2nd 3-peat (Kemp, Malone, Malone).
Only by the haters? This trade has been publicly criticized by players, coaches, GMs, owners and analysts. Even Kobe Bryant called it more of a "donation" than a trade.
Spurs got Will Perdue (who actually played in San Antonio for 4 years) in return and he was a serviceable big man that helped plug up the middle. He also contributed to the '99 championship. Definitely better than what Memphis got. Kwame played for the Grizzlies for a total of 2 months at 12 min/game and Javaris Crittenton was 3 months at 3 min/game. Plus, like you said, Rodman was not a franchise player. He was more like a ticking time bomb and you never knew what his next move would be. Do you remember when he delayed a playoff game against the Lakers by sitting down on the court?
Drexler might be your best argument, but he and Mark Aguirre were in their latter years when those trades went down (still productive, but no longer franchise players). Also, the Rasheed trade was essentially him to Detroit and Theo Ratliff + Shareef Abdur-Rahim (who was averaging 20 and 10 at the time) to Portland. I believe Atlanta got involved because they wanted future picks and Rasheed played exactly one game for them. Nevertheless, everyone got what they wanted and there was a legit exchange of players.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TFloss32
Only by the haters? This trade has been publicly criticized by players, coaches, GMs, owners and analysts. Even Kobe Bryant called it more of a "donation" than a trade.
I'm not saying that it wasn't all of that, but every GM that complained would gladly do the same trade for their teams. They are just pissed that they weren't the team to get over. The Spurs just stole Jefferson for nothing....I don't think anyone in their front office or their fans feel bad about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TFloss32
Spurs got Will Perdue (who actually played in San Antonio for 4 years) in return and he was a serviceable big man that helped plug up the middle. He also contributed to the '99 championship. Definitely better than what Memphis got. Kwame played for the Grizzlies for a total of 2 months at 12 min/game and Javaris Crittenton was 3 months at 3 min/game. Plus, like you said, Rodman was not a franchise player. He was more like a ticking time bomb and you never knew what his next move would be. Do you remember when he delayed a playoff game against the Lakers by sitting down on the court?
Will Perdue is not better than Gasol and some draft picks, and he certainly isn't worth landing Dennis Rodman in his prime. It was a salary dump just like the Gasol trade, with the lone exception being Gasol wasn't a locker room issue. But as far as talent and impact to winning, it was clear as day that Rodman had all of that. He already had two titles. Gasol hadn't won jack....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TFloss32
Drexler might be your best argument, but he and Mark Aguirre were in their latter years when those trades went down (still productive, but no longer franchise players). Also, the Rasheed trade was essentially him to Detroit and Theo Ratliff + Shareef Abdur-Rahim (who was averaging 20 and 10 at the time) to Portland. I believe Atlanta got involved because they wanted future picks and Rasheed played exactly one game for them. Nevertheless, everyone got what they wanted and there was a legit exchange of players.
The point is those type of trades aren't that rare. You can say Drexler and Agguire were on their last legs, but the Drexler trade led to a title immediately, and a WCF appeareance. The Agguire trade led to two straight titles (when a repeat was considered a big deal)....and you were basically giving the best defensive team in the league a top scorer and closer. The Sheed trade led to a title, a Finals appeareance and multiple ECF trips. How are those trades not as bad?
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Jerry West is like Dick Cheney during the Bushie years. He still runs the show, but no one ever sees his old ass.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
21_Blessings
Spurs fans have no ground to stand on here when they got Jefferson for a couple cigarette butts. Or maybe you guys could blatantly tank your season for the 1st pick in the draft again.
Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.
What season was this?
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Curious...Why does Lakerfan call the drafting of Duncan, a tank job.
You guys never explain why you think that. When 4 of your best players miss large parts of the season...you're going to start losing a lot, it's not a tank. It's just that there isn't enough talent left to compete. If the Lakers lost Gasol, Bryant, Odom, & Fish...how many games could the LAL win? About the same amount it takes to become a lottery team.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2Cleva
Stern got over on Memphis. Its what pimp executives do. Deal with it or don't.
FIFY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
21_Blessings
Spurs fans have no ground to stand on here when they got Jefferson for a couple cigarette butts. Or maybe you guys could blatantly tank your season for the 1st pick in the draft again.
Memphis came out a much bigger winner than Milwaukee did in comparison. Which makes this hypocritical thread even more hilarious.
Milwaukee is on the verge of folding due to financial losses, they chose to have a fire sale due to current economic conditions and San Antonio chose to mortgage their future on winning right now. it is a risk both teams have taken. The big difference is that Gasol is a big man and no team gives away a 20-10 big man in his prime for nothing, wing players like Jefferson are a dime a dozen, but skilled bigs are not.
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Originally Posted by
2Cleva
Appreciate that. Spurs fans would be the best reference for that anyway, especially with how the refs has bent them over chairs as well.
FIFY again.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vito Corleone
Milwaukee is on the verge of folding due to financial losses, they chose to have a fire sale due to current economic conditions and San Antonio chose to mortgage their future on winning right now. it is a risk both teams have taken. The big difference is that Gasol is a big man and no team gives away a 20-10 big man in his prime for nothing, wing players like Jefferson are a dime a dozen, but skilled bigs are not.
Teams usually don't give away PFs in their prime that are elite defenders, have led the league in rebounds for the last half decade (and by a wide margin), and already have title experience either. Situations allowed it to happen though.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kingmalaki
I'm not saying that it wasn't all of that, but every GM that complained would gladly do the same trade for their teams. They are just pissed that they weren't the team to get over. The Spurs just stole Jefferson for nothing....I don't think anyone in their front office or their fans feel bad about it.?
Ok, so you're bascially rescinding your comment about the haters. The main difference between the Gasol and Jefferson trades is that nobody wanted Jefferson's contract except for the Spurs. It was a desperation move by both teams to move in a positive direction. It's actually a risky move by the Spurs for many reasons (luxury tax, no money for 2010 summer, etc.) Other teams wanted Gasol (and came to the table with better offers than the Lakers, i.e. Chicago Bulls), but the Lakers were given special attention by Michael Heisley and Chris Wallace for one reason or another. The Spurs trade made perfect sense for both sides...the Lakers trade, however, did not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kingmalaki
Will Perdue is not better than Gasol and some draft picks, and he certainly isn't worth landing Dennis Rodman in his prime. It was a salary dump just like the Gasol trade, with the lone exception being Gasol wasn't a locker room issue. But as far as talent and impact to winning, it was clear as day that Rodman had all of that. He already had two titles. Gasol hadn't won jack.....
If you take both trades from the beginning (when they happened), the Gasol trade is worse than the Rodman trade. Here's why...The Spurs knew exactly what they were getting in Will Perdue, a guy with championship experience who would be a serviceable back-up center to Duncan and Robinson. They were right, he ended up contributing to the '99 championship. Plus, they wanted Rodman out of town on the first thing smokin'.
The Grizzlies, on the other hand, had no idea what they were doing or what they were getting. They were completely worked over by the Lakers. Like 21_Blessings said, Marc Gasol was a known commodity...in Europe. You know as well as I do that there is no correlation between European success and NBA success for a multitude of reasons (American lifestyle, NBA rules, homesickness, etc). Plus, the Grizzlies didn't even know if he would come over. They lucked out that Marc Gasol is now a solid NBA player, yet the team is still in shambles. Talking about the future first round draft picks the Grizzlies received, those are basically second round picks because they came from the Lakers. Why do you think Kupchak parted with those so easily? He knew those picks would be close to the second round because the Lakers were going to be back in title contention with Pau Gasol on board. Simple price to pay for a franchise player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kingmalaki
The point is those type of trades aren't that rare. You can say Drexler and Agguire were on their last legs, but the Drexler trade led to a title immediately, and a WCF appeareance. The Agguire trade led to two straight titles (when a repeat was considered a big deal)....and you were basically giving the best defensive team in the league a top scorer and closer. The Sheed trade led to a title, a Finals appeareance and multiple ECF trips. How are those trades not as bad?
They are rare. You just mentioned four trades that happened in a period of 18-20 years. Here's why the Gasol trade is significant and more important than the all of the rest...since Shaq left the Lakers, they were a mediocre team (at best). 2005= no playoffs, 2006= first round exit, 2007= first round exit. In 2008, the Gasol trade completely altered the power structure in the Western Conference and propeled the Lakers to two straight Finals appearances. The other trades are completely different because you failed to mention that these teams were already successful without those players. The Lakers would still suck without Gasol in the mix:
1.) Drexler to Houston- Clyde was no longer a franchise player (still productive) and Houston was the defending champion from '93. They already won without Clyde.
2.) Aguirre to Detroit- He was no longer a franchise player (still productive) and Detroit was already having great success as well. 1987 ECF (one the best series ever, Bird stole the inbound pass) and they took the Lakers to 7 in the 1988 Finals.
3.) Wallace to Detroit- Not a franchise player and Detroit had already begun their resurgence to the top of the East. 2002= second round exit, 2003= ECF. Plus, Portland received Shareef Abdur-Rahim (20 and 10 guy at the time) and Theo Ratliff in return.
Bottom line: You can't find a franchise player (other than Gasol) traded in his prime to a mediocre team for less than what Memphis got in return. For that reason, and all of the reasons above, the Gasol trade is most likely the worst, most lopsided, shadiest trade in many, many years. I don't know how to make this any more clear. :flag:
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holycrap
Has anyone condemned a soccer team picking someone from its affiliates or youth squads? The answer is "hell freaking NO", with no doubt or discussion.
Glad you could bring a relevant comment to this conversation. :bang
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Kingmalaki your are a dumbfuck in the sense that those players acquired in those trades you mentioned were past their prime. You stupid fucker Dennis Rodman was around 35-36 when the spurs traded him to the bulls. That age is not what you call being in your prime. No team was willing to give much up for Rodman due to his age and his conduct which pretty much resulted in the spurs having to settle for a solid backup big in Perdue. I'm surprised your so stupid that you don't know even your own teams history the Rockets. The Rockets had to give up a very solid big in Othis Thorpe just get Clyde Drexler who was still good but past his prime which lead the Rockets to winning one more title but years of mediocrity that followed afterwards.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TFloss32
Ok, so you're bascially rescinding your comment about the haters.
Not at all. The Lakers got a steal. Every GM and their fans would gladly take a steal if one came their way. The Spurs just got a steal with Jefferson....no one is complaining. I agree with your takes on why Jefferson was traded, but at the end of the day both players were basically salary dumps, and given away for garbage because of financial reasons only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TFloss32
If you take both trades from the beginning (when they happened), the Gasol trade is worse than the Rodman trade.
Will Perdue was an average center at best, and also at the tail end of his career and everyone knew it. To land the best rebounder and defender at his position for him is a steal anyway you put it. It led directly to 3 titles. You can't dispute how much of a ripoff that was.
I don't think any GM will take an older average center (who no one expects to get better) over a young center prospect and 1st round picks (no matter how late, ther are still 1st round picks....didn't LA sell this years for a few million??). The Grizz got more for Gasol than SA did for Rodman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TFloss32
They are rare. You just mentioned four trades that happened in a period of 18-20 years.
I stand corrected. They are rare, but they do happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TFloss32
1.) Drexler to Houston- Clyde was no longer a franchise player (still productive) and Houston was the defending champion from '93. They already won without Clyde.
It doesn't matter that he was no longer a franchise player. This trade led directly to a title and another WCF appeareance. You were still adding a top SG to a team where he could be a 2nd option. He had already been to the Finals twice. A clear steal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TFloss32
2.) Aguirre to Detroit- He was no longer a franchise player (still productive) and Detroit was already having great success as well. 1987 ECF (one the best series ever, Bird stole the inbound pass) and they took the Lakers to 7 in the 1988 Finals.
And this is exactly why you don't give this team Aguirre. They had just made it to the Finals and lost (might have won if Zeke didn't get hurt). And you let them....a team built on dominant defense....add one of the games top scorers? This trade led directly to two titles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TFloss32
3.) Wallace to Detroit- Not a franchise player and Detroit had already begun their resurgence to the top of the East. 2002= second round exit, 2003= ECF. Plus, Portland received Shareef Abdur-Rahim (20 and 10 guy at the time) and Theo Ratliff in return.
You are right that the Pistons sent out more in this case and the one above. But the impact so far has been just the same. Doormat to champion to Finals appeareance to like 5-6 ECF appeareances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TFloss32
Bottom line: You can't find a franchise player (other than Gasol) traded in his prime to a mediocre team for less than what Memphis got in return. For that reason, and all of the reasons above, the Gasol trade is most likely the worst, most lopsided, shadiest trade in many, many years. I don't know how to make this any more clear. :flag:
You are putting too many qualifications out there dude. Sure, I probably can't find a franchise player given to a mediocore team (which LA wasn't...they had the best record in the league before Bynum went down). But I can find other examples of stars given away for not much, that led to as much success as LA has had...which has folks claiming the trade changed the dynamics of the league. And Rodman fits your example actually. You can say he wasn't a franchise player but he surely was just as good as Gasol and I don't see how the LA trade changed the dynamics anymore than that one....and the Spurs got even less than memphis.
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kingmalaki
You are putting too many qualifications out there dude. Sure, I probably can't find a franchise player given to a mediocore team (which LA wasn't...they had the best record in the league before Bynum went down). But I can find other examples of stars given away for not much, that led to as much success as LA has had...which has folks claiming the trade changed the dynamics of the league. And Rodman fits your example actually. You can say he wasn't a franchise player but he surely was just as good as Gasol and I don't see how the LA trade changed the dynamics anymore than that one....and the Spurs got even less than memphis.
I don't think I'm putting too many qualifications out there at all. I'm simply asking for a comparable trade and there really isn't another out there that fits the bill. As far as the Rodman trade goes, I feel as if the the Bulls were going to win regardless. However, I doubt the Lakers would have made two straight Finals appearances without Gasol in the mix.
You, obviously, know your basketball but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'd like to reiterate that I'm not hating on the Gasol trade AT ALL, even though I think it was lopsided and shady. As a Spurs fan, I like it when the Lakers are a great team because it makes the game a lot more fun. I'm simply stating my opinion that I've never seen a trade under those circumstances that had such a significant impact on the league. The Lakers will probably be title contenders for 5 more years, because of the Gasol trade, before they begin to taper off. Those other trades didn't allow those teams to play competitively for that long and those players we've mentioned were no longer franchise players (or weren't franchise players to begin with).
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Re: The Gasol trade, a pure Enigma...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DrHouse
Sour grapes thread.
Haha, it's going to be a fun year DrHouse. I hope Bynum, Ginobili, Garnett and Jameer Nelson are all healthy and back in business. Could be one of the greatest years ever.
