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Don't get me wrong, Hakeem had great low post moves but I always felt he was a PF playing Center while Tim is a Center playing PF... If that makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars
Tim's on the downside of his career but he was and still is a tremendous player. Hakeem had some health issues that kept him from being consistently great. I'll never forget seeing him play for Toronto. That was sad.
A little more about the game.
NBA-PBA duel erupts at the Big Dome
Filipinos ready for battle
By Musong R. Castillo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
MANILA, Philippines - Does Dominique Wilkins still have some spring in those legs to show the Filipinos what the “Human Highlight Reel” is all about?
“Big Shot Bob” was the name Tim Duncan gave Robert Horry, who has seven championships in the National Basketball Association. Question is: Will the NBA-PBA Legends clash even be close to require his heroics?
Vlade Divac was known as one of the headiest centers in his NBA generation, and at 7:30 Friday, the 7-foot-2 Serb, slowed down by age and excess poundage after retirement, will no doubt play it wise against his PBA counterparts.
And Tim Hardaway, widely regarded to be the inventor of the crossover dribble, should be the fittest and most exciting from among the ex-NBA stars who will lock horns with the PBA at the Araneta Coliseum in Cubao.
The biggest NBA scorer of them all—Kareem Abdul-Jabbar—made the trip, but won’t be seeing action. He will help Rory White call the shots against the PBA team, which will be led by two of the biggest legends of its own in Alvin Patrimonio and Allan Caidic.
“Come and watch, it’s going to be fun and exciting,” said Wilkins, a two-time Slam Dunk champion and the biggest NBA star to play here since Shaquille O’Neal last decade.
The NBA Legends will be beefed up by young talents coming from the D-League, including former PBA import Billy Thomas. The others are Derrick Dial, Marcus Habbard, Chris Ellis, Lanny Smith and Russell Robinson.
Aside from Patrimonio and Caidic, Ronnie Magsanoc, Benjie Paras and Kenneth Durem-des are the other legends in the PBA roster.
They will be joined by Wynne Arboleda, Dondon Hontiveros, Marc Pingris, Jay-R Reyes, Arwind Santos, Asi Taulava, Sonny Thoss, Rico Villanueva and Joseph Yeo with national coach Yeng Guiao calling the shots.
“We prepared as hard as we can in the short time we had to practice. I do think we can give them a good fight while making the game fun and enjoyable at the same time,” Guiao said.
Speed is key
A day before the historic match, Coach White also told INQUIRER.net that he is looking forward in giving the audience the NBA experience.
“I know that basketball here is really good. You have very quick players here. It’s gonna be a challenge for us,” said White.
“They’re small but they can use their quickness and get to the basket real easy and I’m sure that’s what they’re going to do to beat our players up and down the floor because as you know, we’re bigger,” he added, referring to the Philippine squad.
Jabbar, meanwhile, talked about the importance of basketball fundamentals.
“If you start playing basketball competitively at a young age, you develop instincts about the game and you have the understanding of the game. Then, it becomes your second nature,” the Lakers legend said in an interview.
So both Horry and Elie say Hakeem was the best. Interesting....
hakeem...was the best. hes the only big id ever take over Duncan. Tim was unstoppable, a complete player during his first couple years but after his injury he lost a bit of quickness and jumping ability that he never got back. Hakeem was indescribably, what he did to such big-name competition. he was unstoppable on defense and offensively he could do it ALL. Duncan matched him (only on to do so ever IMO) from 98-2000) but overall hakeem was the most talented big ever IMO.
This is an interesting thread because the last Duncan v Hakeem thread was bitterly split. What changed?
I'm gonna check out Horry's resteraunt on monday in SA.
It sounds good, hopefully it is. :)
Prime Duncan > Anybody
Prime duncan = prime Hakeem = Prime Jordan = >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone elseQuote:
Originally Posted by newacc
Hakeem was amazing but honestly it is so even that the championship rings alone should be the deciding factor. Duncan and Hakeem each have such a perfect all around game that the only way for me to decide who I would start a team with would be to decide who has done it more and for longer. Duncan whether it be only due to better talent, gets the nod.
On purely subjective grounds I'm going to put it in terms of the following:
Talent.............Duncan = Hakeem
Longevity........Duncan > Hakeem
Team work......Duncan > Hakeem
Offense..........Duncan < Hakeem
handling the double team
....................Duncan < Hakeem
Help Defense...Duncan > Hakeem
Individual Defense
....................Duncan < Hakeem
Blocks............Duncan < Hakeem
Passing ........Duncan < Hakeem
Rebounding ....Duncan > Hakeem
Intangibles.....Duncan < Hakeem
Ships ...........Duncan > Hakeem
Leadership......Duncan > Hakeem
Face up moves
...................Duncan > Hakeem
Pivot Moves
...................Duncan < Hakeem
Clutchness.....Duncan > Hakeem
Versatility .....Duncan > Hakeem
Footwork ......Duncan < Hakeem
TOTAL : 9 Duncan to 8 Hakeem
(duncan would have 10 if I added 3 point shooting.)
Let me tell you why the RocketFans get the reception here that they do....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars
#1. Discourtesy.
Rockets Fans are stupid and rude because they don't seem to understand that this specific forum is a Spurs forum, and we like Spurs players better than Rockets players. Rockets fans are bunch of fuck sticks that come over here and jock Hakeem and impinge upon us being Spurs fans.
We are not over at clutch city arguing the greatness of Duncan or Robinson, we are in our own forum, celebrating on our own players.
Yes we know SpursTalk is superior to any Rocketbaord in existence...but it's not our fault you guys are shitty fans and have shitty boards. It's your fault.
It is annoying that you make your problem our problem,.
It is extremely annoying when you do it when one of our players is going into the HOF.
For instance, the complete and total FuckWad known as King Malaki...this guy has been showing up here for 7 fucking years with his stupid fucking arguments, he showed up here when Drob retired. He showed up here now when he's going into the HOF, with his stupid fucking uninsightful arguments.
And it is rude and stupid.
#2. Stupidity.
Rockets fans bring the stupidest arguments on Hakeem's behalf it is humanly possible to have. They get dismantled because they are easy to dismantle and those behind the arguments have little or no knowledge of the game and it is blindingly apparent to just about every regular poster here. And most of the time it is obvious that the Spurs fans probably saw Hakeem play more than the Rockets Fans.
Do you guys realize you are a fanbase that celebrates Tracy MaGrady? Do you know how pathetic that makes you appear to every other fanbase in the NBA?
#3. Cowardice
I don't know that I have ever seen a RocketFan arguing Hakeem was better than Shaq at any Lakersboard. It's like you guys come here as big ole Houston and try to bully small market SA...but you are too big of pussies to go argue on your guy's behalf on Lakersboards. It's like ya'll are just media extensions...toeing the media perception of players. Hakeem kicked David's ass exactly as the media claimed. Shaq is better than Hakeem exactly as the media claims. And that is exactly the way your arguments come off when you guys are put to the test as well.
It's like somehow you'll get a self esteem boost if you get Hakeem some credit on a Spurs board, but you don't realize how badly you come off as bottom dwellers...why don't you fucksticks take this shit to Lakers boards and be big fish?
Because I am still waiting for proof Shaq is better than Hakeem, outside of media hype. Dude kicked Shaq's ass off the court in the NBA finals. And unlike the matchups with Duncan with Shaq, and Hakeem VS Robinson, Hakeem was the guy defending Shaq all by himself in those finals and Shaq was defending Hakeem. And fucking Shaq got s-----------wwwwwwwwwwwwwept. And he had a good fucking team with NBA championship teamates that had no holes in it.
Why don't you pathetic dumbfucks go get your validation from the bigboys instead of insignificant little SA?
Pussies.
I realize you are surprised to see Spurs fans involved in an intelligent discourse regarding Hakeem and actually acknowledging what a great player he was....this has always been the case, the reason you did not know it is because you came here operating under a stupid perception about us being unwilling to give a player the credit he is due...I suspect it's because you guys yourself that come over to have the arguments to get your esteem boost, are unwlling to give players the credit they are due.
IOW, you really shouldn't be suprised...I've argued against the stupid 95 finals argument Hakeem VS Drob for as long as I can remember...but you will never see a list by me in which Duncan or Robinson, or Shaq, rank over Hakeem...because no matter what I think would have been different if a few players were switched, or if Hakeem met Duncan in their primes...
The reality is Hakeem kicked everyone's ass at some point, whether his team won or not. Any single guy of his era that played in the post, Hakeem kicked their ass at some point. Barkley, Kareem, Malone, Shaq, Drob, Ewing etc...
However, not Tim Duncan. Let's just make that clear.
You guys are despicable to me, because you are small timing it with San Antonio, when you guys should be arguing for Hakeem against Kareem and Shaq...since he kicked both of their fucking ass off the court...and old and young arguments do not work...
Because he was young when he kicked Kareem's old ass off the court, and he was old when he kicked Shaq'a young ass off the court.
Mind controlled pussies....you aren't doing shit over here...you're just media extensions arguing the greatness of your guy only to the extent the media tells you you can. Which means you are either new to the game, or completley stupid.
If that weren't the case and you guys really knew what the fuck you were talking about...you'd be over at Lakersground and wouldn't even pay attention to Spursfans.
There is your reality.
PS: Hakeem couldn't guard Drob one on one any better than David could guard Hakeem, but David was the guy that could draw the fouls and put an ass on a bench, the absolute best kind of defense there is. That is the true lockdown defense. And David could do it to any bigman in the league that had to guard him. Fortunately for Hakeem he never had to guard David in the same fashion David had to guard Hakeem...and he had teamates that punished any team that doubled him...the most prolific 3 point shooting team in NBA history, and they just so happened to be clutch.
PSS: Duncan's got more rings, and his teams were basically constructed just like Hakeem's were, right down to some of the same supporting players...I am surprised Rockets fans never see this....And Duncan has given an ass kicking to just about every bigman of his era as well.
I will tell you this...it is a mistake to judge Duncan entirely by stats. Which is the only type of argument Hakeem can win against Duncan because Duncan can stick that finals MVP and NBA championship argument, which is the only one Rocketfan ever uses, up RocketFan asses all day long. Duncan has never had the stats that the C's of that era had or even of this era...but he has a quiet unyielding detemination to win and unlike he Hakeem, Duncan always wants to win, his contract is never an issue, his teamates are never an issue, it being the regular season is never an issue, his disputes with his owner are never an issue, him not getting the ball enough is never an issue.
To sum all this up...it's not so much about us as it is about you guys and your stupid, weak, unknowledgable Pro-Hakeem arguments and the rude fashion and times you present them. And yes, you guys deserve to be generalized.
I am not gonna lie to you and say I read all that because I didn't, but I am going to go ahead and guess that it is filled with stereotypes and bitterness.
I can't figure out how you got that...it's certainly not in the stats, it's not in anything in my memory either. Duncan's much better at picking apart a defense than Hakeem was. And he averages more assists per game too...by a significant amount. And both of them turned it over a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by DespЏrado
And I really don't understand how you arrived at this one. Duncan has got more intangibles that just about anyone. It's what makes him Duncan...it's certainly not his statistical dominance or being the best in the league at any one thing(other than maybe scoring on the block)Quote:
Intangibles.....Duncan < Hakeem
You asked....see how rude you are?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars
Disagree...Olajuwon's speed and athleticism far exceeded that of Duncan. Lets not forget he was capable of chasing down opposing guards on fast breaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by DespЏrado
Disagree...Olajuwon led a squad of above average role players to the championship in 1994. That's the definition of being a team player.Quote:
Originally Posted by DespЏrado
Please explain how Olajuwon, the league's all-time leading shot blocker, was an inferior help defender to Duncan.Quote:
Originally Posted by DespЏrado
First of all, the number of championships each player has is irrelevant when comparing them individually. Why should Olajuwon be penalized because he was surrounded by Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell instead of Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili?Quote:
Originally Posted by DespЏrado
I think a better indicator would be if they still had the same number of championships if they switched teams. I think Olajuwon would've won titles with Duncan's supporting cast, but I doubt that Duncan could've led Olajuwon's 1994 supporting cast to a title.
In regards to clutchness, don't forget that Olajuwon was usually the Rockets #1 option down the stretch. And let's not forget his defensive clutchness as well. Do you remember his game saving fingertip block against John Starks in the 1994 finals?
In regards to versatility, Olajuwon is widely considered one of the best two-way big men to ever play. Duncan has never had that distinction. You can't get more versatile than that.
Ever heard of the term "hockey assist"? That's how Olajuwon contributed to his three point shooters.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
You honestly expect me to read all that when you write things likeQuote:
Originally Posted by whottt
"Yes we know SpursTalk is superior to any Rocketbaord in existence...but it's not our fault you guys are shitty fans and have shitty boards. It's your fault"
under the discourteous section? Give me a break.
You know of a Rocket board that's better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars
If so why are you here?
Link please...
It is possible to be a fan of multiple players and teams. Try not to derail the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
Link?Quote:
Originally Posted by wekko368
All I can say is a team of Dream and Tim in their primes would have been arguebly the best two some of big man on the same team ever - these two could do it all and would have surely complimented each other very well (I cannot deny that a healthy Bill Walton, Shaq, Chamberlain* David Robinson or Bill Russell in the post with either of the two would be other great options) and both have a lot of character and game.
The Dream was more athletic than Tim, Tim was dominant longer at the championship level and both were intense and cerebral so to me these are both top ten players ever in the HX of the game.
*He led the league in assists one year just to show he could and also had a season where he played every minute of every game and I believe if Chamberlain had played with another big great man in his career the history books would have been changed on the Celtics/Russell domination over him.
Great seeing that you haven't argued any of the Duncan < Hakeem points.Quote:
Originally Posted by wekko368
So in your mind, Hakeem is better than Duncan in every single meaningful comparison?
So both Horry and Elie won their first championship with Hakeem ... interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingmalaki
OP said that Olajuwon had better offense, handling the double team, individual defense, blocks, passing, intangibles, pivot moves, and footwork.Quote:
Originally Posted by ambchang
The only one that I disagree with is passing. At most, I'd set them at equal.
Whottt that was a pretty amazing ass beating... I read it... but if you could have like summed it up into say 4 sentences... they might have actually been able to finish it...
You can't expect "ego stroking media sheep" to read like 9 paragraphs...
that first year of their back to back D-Rob got murdered trying to guard Hakeem. that was hard to watch.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
in fact yall can YouTube "Hakeem owns D-Rob" or something like that.