It's obvious you don't understand what I'm trying to say. But I respect your opinion I guess Mike Brown gives the keys to the team to Mo Williams and Boobie Gibson whenever Mo is sitting.
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It's obvious you don't understand what I'm trying to say. But I respect your opinion I guess Mike Brown gives the keys to the team to Mo Williams and Boobie Gibson whenever Mo is sitting.
Roger hit a boatload of big shots for the Spurs last year. He was amazing, actually. He is an excellent shooting guard, especially off curls and flares.
Now, then, when Mace runs the pick & roll, he's fine if he rubs and pops off the ball screen. In fact, he's terrific. When he comes off the screen and drives, he struggles, finishing like a two-year old finishes a big plate of food.
He's okay in a pinch. Good thing Roger is working on his legs and handle in the off-season. He'll need them for the long haul...and he'll especially need that leg strength to improve his defensive intensity. He'll be guarding opposing 2s and 3s and not the JJ Barea's and Chris Paul's of the world, that's for sure.
Did you even read the website?Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Your simplistic analysis of the PG position is either misguided or just plain ignorant. A PG does more than what you claim in the original post. Your lack of understanding of this shows your lack of knowledge in the area.Quote:
The point guard is often thought of an extension of the coach on the floor, or the "quarterback", or floor general. So the point guard must have a close working relationship with the coaches and be very "coachable". He/she should have frequent discussions with the coach to know exactly what the coach expects of him/her, and what team strategies to use at a given time. The point guard must know his role on the team, whether he is expected to be a John Stockton type assist man, or a scorer like Allen Iverson. And this of course will depend not only on his own skills as a scorer, but also upon the talent of his teammates around him. If the team has some excellent scorers, he/she will want to be a good assist person and get the ball to those players. If no-one else on the team is a strong scoring threat, then the point guard may need to step up into that role.
You must also be able to communicate with your teammates both on and off the court. Learn to read the cuts your wing players make, whether they V-cut or back-cut. You might work out some hand signals so you know whether he/she is going back-door or not. At times, you may see the your team bunched up, with poor spacing, and you need to know how to back the ball out, direct them and get them to move and correct their spacing.
Every coach, GM, player and expert will tell you that the PG is the most difficult position to learn. The best offensive player isn't going to be the PG because he doesn't grasp all the intricacies of playing PG.
There's a reason why Lebron isn't a PG yet someone of similiar build, Magic, is the best PG the league's ever seen. And it has nothing to do with him being the best player on a team that featured Kareem on it.
That is just a ridiculous statement. PG is the hardest position to learn. That's not up for debate. Being the best offensive player doesn't make you a great PG. It's not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
I'm not saying being the best offensive player makes you a great PG. Your putting words in my mouth. You stated the PG is the decision maker in all phases of the game/ and is the vocal leader ect. I think the best offensive player these days has more of the responsibility of being the vocal leader and the ultimate decision maker during the game because they have the ball more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Explosion
I never said the best offensive player is the PG. Your wrong.
As I've said before and I'll say it again it all boils down to the personnel or the players you have on the team. Most typically the best offensive player on the team is the ultimate decision maker. Therefore hinders the responsibility of a point guard you are being so adament about.
He was great whenever teams went under on the pick and roll. But as the season went on teams scouted him and started to hedge him or go over on the P &R which would make him put it on the floor, which would then be 2 the other way for the opposing team as he would lose the ball or get blocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid D
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
You kind of answered your own question here, but digressing...Quote:
People should start saying Mason CAN'T CREATE FOR OTHERS WELL.
If we had Manu last season, Mason wouldn't have seen time as backup point guard.
Manu would've, because he can finish at the rim and create for other players. Things that, at this point, Mason has not excelled at doing. Thus his problems with handling the point.
Saying that Mason isn't a good One just because Manu wasn't there to do the job does not compute.
Again, you're not understanding the nature of the PG position. You're trying to boil down the position to one aspect and that's not the case. Gino is arguably the most dynamic player on the Spurs with the ball in his hands, yet I wouldn't fully trust his decision making.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
While he's shown the ability to make good decisions with the ball, he also makes too many mistakes, too many bad decisions for my liking.
The best offensive player isn't going to be the best decision maker. Again, you want your PG to be the best decision maker on the team. If the best offensive player on the team was the ultimate decision maker, then the best offensive player on the team would almost always be the PG of the team.
Obviously this isn't the case. A PG has a multitude of responsibilities that even the best players, such as Kobe and Lebron, couldn't handle full time. That's why Kobe and Lebron aren't deemed PGs.
Magic was of similar height, weight and build as Lebron, yet Magic was a PG and Lebron wasn't. Why is that?
You keep arguing a point that is faulty in logic. Jordan wasn't the PG on the Bulls, and he was unequivocally the best player on the team. He didn't even play backup, that was Pippen.
On the Lakers, Fisher plays PG followed by Odom. That has nothing to do with personnel and everything to do with the triangle offense.
I'm wasting my time. You obviously don't understand what I'm trying to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Explosion
I guess when the 2nd unit comes on next year George Hill will be telling Manu Ginobili where to go and where to be and will be the leader of that group because your link said thats what PG's do. ( even though theres only been a handful of PG's in the last 20 years that were responsible for everyone of those responsibilities in that link).
You obviosly don't understand how the personnel that a team has effects the responsbiliites of your labeled PG.
Actually, to answer your question, the Point Guard is a position that developed when Dean Smith and other coaches started using defenses where they doubled the ball before the offense could get initiated and when the two guards were in the backcourt together, it was easier to double because of the spacing. With a single, lead guard initiating the offense from the middle and employing two wing players, it became more difficult to double with the other guard defensively because of the greater distance from the wings or corners. Offenses started being designed with a single playmaker, 2 wing players and 2 post players.
Maybe that answers your question better about why a Point Guard position or why the label.
There's a significant difference between players that can run the point, and those who are actually point-guard's.
Mason's actually does pretty well off the dribble rubbing his man off a screen for his shot or making the most basic of plays. But getting into the teeth of the defense and creating for others, is not something he excels in.
One of the biggest problems I saw with Mason running the point last year, was the responsibility of actually bringing up the ball with any decent pressure. It's just not something that comes to him second nature or that he's real comfortable with.
As a result, he would expend so much bringing it up, that by the time he needed to initiate/create offense, he looked like a boxer that just got done covering up after a flurry of punches; disoriented and trying to get his wits about him.
Mason's fine in the half-court and actually plays better when he gets a good amount of touches and a feel for the ball offensively -- as seen in Washington and earlier in the year with SA -- but he's not someone you want bringing up the ball and running the point consistently.
Initiating a Princeton offense like Washington or a motion-type like the Spurs, is something Mason can do. He can, at times, run the point.
But to say Mason can be, or is, a point-guard?
Well, if playing a position inevitably takes away from your individual game more than it helps the team?
I'd say that tells you all you need to know.
I admit I don't have a deep knowledge of the game and game history but this is my take on the subject:
I guess the problem is that the role of the PG has change.
Basically, the function of the PG is to organise the game (bring the ball, clock management, call the systems...). In Europe there are still a lot of PG doing essentially that. IMO this is the true role of a PG. In the NBA, I would say Steve Blake is an example of the traditional PG.
The second role is to create plays, to make nice pass, or to score after blowing by your opponent with your superior speed and ball-handling.
This role is more and more important because in a 5 players game, you can't afford to have a player that can't bring creation (think Vaughn) to the table when he handle the ball much of the time.
This is also what stars are supposed to do, this is probably why there is some confusion.
Basically everything Roger Mason isn't...Quote:
A coach on the floor, who can handle and distribute the ball to teammates. It also states that the more speed a point guard has, the more likely he will be able to create separation and space off the dribble, which allows the point guard room to work. Point guards should also be vocal floor leaders, and should discuss rule interpretations with officials. A point guard must always know the time on both the shot clock and the game clock, the score, the number of timeouts for both teams, and whom to foul late in the game.
A true point guard's job is to create scoring opportunities for his/her team. The role includes passing and running the offense: setting up plays on the court, getting the ball to the teammate that he feels is in the best position to score, and dictating the tempo of the game. This also means knowing when and how to instigate a fast break and when and how to initiate the more deliberate sets.
After an opponent scores, it is typically the point guard who brings the ball down court to begin an offensive play. For this reason, passing skills, ball handling, and court vision are pivotal.
A point guard is a guy who controls the offense and sets up plays. I could not care less if that guy has Scottie Pippen's body, he was the real point guard for that Bulls squad. Roger Mason is definitely not a point guard.
What you're not getting is how difficult it is to be a PG. You're assuming the best offensive players make good PGs. Not true. Again, if that was the case, Kobe and Lebron would be PGs as well as Wade and guys like Vince Carter. But they're not.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
The PG has much more responsibility than you're giving him credit for. You're trying to break down the PG position to a simple task in an effort to support your argument. However, in reality, the PG does much more than that.
I don't want Gino handling the PG position for an extended period of time. Parker has much more responsibility on this team than Gino (and know this isn't a Gino vs Parker point), and I'd trust him with that responsibility far more than I trust Gino.
You're either too ignorant of the PG position to see my point, or are just not willing to see it because it basically crushes your premise.
Thats funny cause when Duncan has a small 6-1 guy in the post Parker can't seem to get him the ball. I see Parker 99% of the time trying to beat his big man from the perimeter instead of feeding Tim and letting the double teams come and moving the ball. But I guess since Parker is the best point guard in the league all his decisions are right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Explosion
Your handle on this forum should be 'broken record'.Quote:
Originally Posted by portnoy1
I see Parker probing probing probing and not giving up the rock. I been watching Espn Classics with John stockton greatest games. Yeah I know stockton racked up alot of assist. But its how he did it. He just made simple passes and used the Pick n roll in different ways. If he had a scoring opportunity he took it. Guys would run the floor and cut to the basket when he drove cause they knew they would get the ball. He made guys like Adam Keefe that SUCKED and had no offensive skill look good. Stockton didn't dribble alot either. Parker has the opportunity to score everytime he touches the ball, However you have to look around as well to make sure everyone gets a touch so they can have a chance to get in rythym. And then when you do that you end up finding a hot hand, which less'n your load. All the good point guards work very little to get things accomplished, and use their head ( BB IQ ).Parker unstoppable as he is, is known for having (Decent) court vision and not having good (PG) instints, not seeing cutters and stuff like that. (His Scouting Report ) I read it. FYI - I haven't seen him do that fake timeout thing for years. He Probably did that back then to make sure he got his share of shots since it was Duncan's team. Now he doesn't have too, he cant shoot it anytime he wants. Why sneak a FG attempt when you have 4 other guys at your beck n call ( Including Tim ).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Explosion
you're finally getting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by portnoy1
good one. Still nobody can explain that statement though especially if you have CP3/D-Will around.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic21
Yeah, you might want to address that concern to Pop instead of Parker, as Pop wants Parker to keep the defense honest. Parker's assists went up this year, so you can't claim he's not passing the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by portnoy1
It's hard to average double digit assists on the Spurs because of the extra passes made to keep the defense off balance. However, Parker constantly challenges the defense to make the D react to his speed. With Parker constantly challenging the big man, Duncan can now thrive on single coverage, and the shooters get their defenders rotating creating an open man.
This isn't Parker doing this on his own, but rather Parker taking Pop's game plan and putting it into action.
That's the difference between pure PG and scoring PG. The way to beat the Hornets is to make Chris Paul a scorer and not let him distribute. Letting Parker score will get you beat every time. That's why they're different types of PGs.
But in the end, they do share a lot of the same responsibilities, as I stated above.
thats cool , i have a ? If Parker were in Jerry Sloans system would he have significantly more assist? I'm talking 10+ with 20pts still.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Explosion
He did it because it was smart to do. And it worked. But just like the Eagles onside kicking the opening kickoff of the first game of the season, it only works for so long before the scouting report catches on.Quote:
Originally Posted by portnoy1
It was just one example of the PG knowing the situation and taking advantage of it. Just because you haven't seen the fake timeout thing work doesn't mean he doesn't try it. He still probes the defense before the time out, but usually the team is disciplined enough to watch for it, just like the Cowboys the following season resulting in the quickest kickoff return for a TD in NFL history.
There was a reason A.J.'s nickname was the "Little General". It's because he ran the floor and directed the players on the floor - and that's essentially what a Point Guard does. It takes a lot more than pure basketball skills to be a good point guard - and that's why LeBron and Wade don't play that position.