Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
Botched circumcision?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookshanks
Botched circumcision?
What we should really do is look for a far right counterpoint to prove that the Huffington Post article is nothing but lies about lies!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
Not at all. Just verify anything said. Full context used also. Not just snippets.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
Rather than evaluate the claims made, it serves expedience -- and intellectual laziness -- to disqualify the sources peremptorily.
Well, my experience with articles from the likes of the Huffington Post, Common Dreams, and a few other organizations is that they are seldom ever accurate in the viewpoint they present.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Are you saying otherwise?
You'll just move the goalposts again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
Winehole is arguing out of pure partisanship. This list is a far stretch and just shows the elitist views from both parties. The Political class of America are scared of Palin.
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by spursncowboys
I welcome Palin and her worshipers. She is obviously their messiah.
If you're talking about "accuracy" of "viewpoint" HuffPo is self-consciously progressive and liberal. They don't bother to hide it, and you obviously dislike it. I strongly suspect this may be your main beef with them, WC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
If you're talking about factual veracity, IMO they're not noticeably worse than any other news aggregator.
I have never registered as a Democrat.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursncowboys
I have never voted for a Democrat to be POTUS.
Had there been no Ron Paul, Sarah Palin would've made voting for McCain impossible for me. It was already pretty distasteful, but I probably would've held my nose and pulled the lever, assuming no RP and no Sarah.
Me voting for Obama was never, ever in the cards.
Mere disagreement on a given topic apparently causes you to jump to the conclusion that the poster must be of the other political persuasion.
It's a boorish way to respond to adversity, SnC, and it's pretty irritating too. Please cut it out. I'll be happy to respond to any question you might have about my political persuasion you put directly to me. Assuming that you know it because I happen to disagree with you is, well, very irritating. Hmm?
Hmm...Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
How much worse does a lie have to be before you call it a lie?
Wait, there's more!
============
"Going Rogue" Fact Check: Palin's Book Goes Rogue On Some Facts, AP Says
CALVIN WOODWARD | 11/13/09 09:09 PM | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/images/v/ap_wire.png
WASHINGTON — Sarah Palin's new book reprises familiar claims from the 2008 presidential campaign that haven't become any truer over time.
Ignoring substantial parts of her record if not the facts, she depicts herself as a frugal traveler on the taxpayer's dime, a reformer without ties to powerful interests and a politician roguishly indifferent to high ambition.
Palin goes adrift, at times, on more contemporary issues, too. She criticizes President Barack Obama for pushing through a bailout package that actually was achieved by his Republican predecessor George W. Bush – a package she seemed to support at the time.
A look at some of her statements in "Going Rogue," obtained by The Associated Press in advance of its release Tuesday:
___
PALIN: Says she made frugality a point when traveling on state business as Alaska governor, asking "only" for reasonably priced rooms and not "often" going for the "high-end, robe-and-slippers" hotels.
THE FACTS: Although travel records indicate she usually opted for less-pricey hotels while governor, Palin and daughter Bristol stayed five days and four nights at the $707.29-per-night Essex House luxury hotel (robes and slippers come standard) overlooking New York City's Central Park for a five-hour women's leadership conference in October 2007. With air fare, the cost to Alaska was well over $3,000. Event organizers said Palin asked if she could bring her daughter. The governor billed her state more than $20,000 for her children's travel, including to events where they had not been invited, and in some cases later amended expense reports to specify that they had been on official business.
___
PALIN: Boasts that she ran her campaign for governor on small donations, mostly from first-time givers, and turned back large checks from big donors if her campaign perceived a conflict of interest.
THE FACTS: Of the roughly $1.3 million she raised for her primary and general election campaigns for governor, more than half came from people and political action committees giving at least $500, according to an AP analysis of her campaign finance reports. The maximum that individual donors could give was $1,000; $2,000 for a PAC.
Of the rest, about $76,000 came from Republican Party committees.
She accepted $1,000 each from a state senator and his wife in the weeks after the two Republican lawmakers' offices were raided by the FBI as part of an investigation into a powerful Alaska oilfield services company. After AP reported those donations during the presidential campaign, she said she would give a comparative sum to charity after the general election in 2010, a date set by state election laws.
PALIN: Rails against taxpayer-financed bailouts, which she attributes to Obama. She recounts telling daughter Bristol that to succeed in business, "you'll have to be brave enough to fail."
THE FACTS: Palin is blurring the lines between Obama's stimulus plan – a $787 billion package of tax cuts, state aid, social programs and government contracts – and the federal bailout that Republican presidential candidate John McCain voted for and President George W. Bush signed.
Palin's views on bailouts appeared to evolve as McCain's vice presidential running mate. In September 2008, she said "taxpayers cannot be looked to as the bailout, as the solution, to the problems on Wall Street." A week later, she said "ultimately what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy."
During the vice presidential debate in October, Palin praised McCain for being "instrumental in bringing folks together" to pass the $700 billion bailout. After that, she said "it is a time of crisis and government did have to step in."
___
PALIN: Says Ronald Reagan faced an even worse recession than the one that appears to be ending now, and "showed us how to get out of one. If you want real job growth, cut capital gains taxes and slay the death tax once and for all."
THE FACTS: The estate tax, which some call the death tax, was not repealed under Reagan and capital gains taxes are lower now than when Reagan was president.
Economists overwhelmingly say the current recession is far worse. The recession Reagan faced lasted for 16 months; this one is in its 23rd month. The recession of the early 1980s did not have a financial meltdown. Unemployment peaked at 10.8 percent, worse than the October 2009 high of 10.2 percent, but the jobless rate is still expected to climb.
___
PALIN: She says her team overseeing the development of a natural gas pipeline set up an open, competitive bidding process that allowed any company to compete for the right to build a 1,715-mile pipeline to bring natural gas from Alaska to the Lower 48.
THE FACTS: Palin characterized the pipeline deal the same way before an AP investigation found her team crafted terms that favored only a few independent pipeline companies and ultimately benefited a company with ties to her administration, TransCanada Corp. Despite promises and legal guidance not to talk directly with potential bidders during the process, Palin had meetings or phone calls with nearly every major candidate, including TransCanada.
___
PALIN: Criticizes an aide to her predecessor, Gov. Frank Murkowski, for a conflict of interest because the aide represented the state in negotiations over a gas pipeline and then left to work as a handsomely paid lobbyist for ExxonMobil. Palin asserts her administration ended all such arrangements, shoving a wedge in the revolving door between special interests and the state capital.
THE FACTS: Palin ignores her own "revolving door" issue in office; the leader of her own pipeline team was a former lobbyist for a subsidiary of TransCanada, the company that ended up winning the rights to build the pipeline.
___
PALIN: Writes about a city councilman in Wasilla, Alaska, who owned a garbage truck company and tried to push through an ordinance requiring residents of new subdivisions to pay for trash removal instead of taking it to the dump for free – this to illustrate conflicts of interest she stood against as a public servant.
THE FACTS: As Wasilla mayor, Palin pressed for a special zoning exception so she could sell her family's $327,000 house, then did not keep a promise to remove a potential fire hazard on the property.
She asked the city council to loosen rules for snow machine races when she and her husband owned a snow machine store, and cast a tie-breaking vote to exempt taxes on aircraft when her father-in-law owned one. But she stepped away from the table in 1997 when the council considered a grant for the Iron Dog snow machine race in which her husband competes.
___
PALIN: Says Obama has admitted that the climate change policy he seeks will cause people's electricity bills to "skyrocket."
THE FACTS: She correctly quotes a comment attributed to Obama in January 2008, when he told San Francisco Chronicle editors that under his cap-and-trade climate proposal, "electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket" as utilities are forced to retrofit coal burning power plants to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.
Obama has argued since then that climate legislation can blunt the cost to consumers. Democratic legislation now before Congress calls for a variety of measures aimed at mitigating consumer costs. Several studies predict average household costs probably would be $100 to $145 a year.
___
PALIN: Welcomes last year's Supreme Court decision deciding punitive damages for victims of the nation's largest oil spill tragedy, the Exxon Valdez disaster, stating it had taken 20 years to achieve victory. As governor, she says, she'd had the state argue in favor of the victims, and she says the court's ruling went "in favor of the people." Finally, she writes, Alaskans could recover some of their losses.
THE FACTS: That response is at odds with her reaction at the time to the ruling, which resolved the long-running case by reducing punitive damages for victims to $500 million from $2.5 billion. Environmentalists and plaintiffs' lawyers decried the ruling as a slap at the victims and Palin herself said she was "extremely disappointed." She said the justices had gutted a jury decision favoring higher damage awards, the Anchorage Daily News reported. "It's tragic that so many Alaska fishermen and their families have had their lives put on hold waiting for this decision," she said, noting many had died "while waiting for justice."
___
PALIN: Describing her resistance to federal stimulus money, Palin describes Alaska as a practical, libertarian haven of independent Americans who don't want "help" from government busybodies.
THE FACTS: Alaska is also one of the states most dependent on federal subsidies, receiving much more assistance from Washington than it pays in federal taxes. A study for the nonpartisan Tax Foundation found that in 2005, the state received $1.84 for every dollar it sent to Washington.
___
PALIN: Says she tried to talk about national security and energy independence in her interview with Vogue magazine but the interviewer wanted her to pivot from hydropower to high fashion.
THE FACTS are somewhat in dispute. Vogue contributing editor Rebecca Johnson said Palin did not go on about hydropower. "She just kept talking about drilling for oil."
___
PALIN: "Was it ambition? I didn't think so. Ambition drives; purpose beckons." Throughout the book, Palin cites altruistic reasons for running for office, and for leaving early as Alaska governor.
THE FACTS: Few politicians own up to wanting high office for the power and prestige of it, and in this respect, Palin fits the conventional mold. But "Going Rogue" has all the characteristics of a pre-campaign manifesto, the requisite autobiography of the future candidate.
___
AP writers Matt Apuzzo, Sharon Theimer, Tom Raum, Rita Beamish, Beth Fouhy, H. Josef Hebert, Justin D. Pritchard, Garance Burke, Dan Joling and Lewis Shaine contributed to this report.
==========
Crooky, Whott, WC need to make a version of this about their beloved pitbull bitch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc&feature=fvw
What lies, please? What are you talking about, WC?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
This could well be the motto of the Spurs Talk political forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
It's not only that they're liberal, its basically what huffington considers "facts" are just the account of the McCain campaign. Would they have taken McCain's campaigh staff's word as truth throughout the 2008 campaign? No they wouldn't, and we all know that this is too convenient for them. It's as if NRO wrote a hit piece on BHO and took the statements of the ardent Hillary campaigners as fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
But I think you already know this, and your tendency to take this at full value makes you seem like the big partisan hack you really try not to be.
I doubt you evaluated any value of the claims made.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
Infact, you being a lawyer i would suspect you to be more skeptical of taking the opposing side's account at full value.
So thanks for indicting yourself.
I made the remark that two particular sources are not to be trusted. To verify. You turn around and say "they're not noticeably worse than any other news aggregator." Therefor, I ask, how much worse does a lie have to be before you call it a lie?Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
I'm not talking about any particular lie. I am saying as a matter of statistics, those two sites lie. I didn't read any of it because I do, outright ignore, the Huffington post. I have not yet seen an article reported about a conservative by them that could be considered factual. I don't expect to either.
So. The M$M's twist the truth and often outright lie. Again, how much worse do they have to lie before you are willing to call it a lie?
What the McCain campaign had to say about Palin is admittedly a partisan source -- a Republican one. This reporting is part of the tale. Obviously it bugs you that this reporting reinforces the impression Palin created herself of playing fast and loose with the facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignignokt
It's not HuffPo's fault that Sarah Palin is a serial prevaricator, starting with her embarrassing fibs about the bridge to nowhere.
HuffPo relies on other newspapers and newswires for about 90% of their content, like Drudge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
thanks for proving my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
You take one account over another as fact.
I've said nothing about the claims made -- nothing at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignignokt
Frankly, the list of things posted at the top of this thread strikes me as both uninteresting and inherently disputable.
My sole point -- the post that you've responded to -- is that it's pretty common around here to immediately discredit the things said by some, based on the perceived viewpoint of the speaker and not the substance of what that person has said. That's true of posters and its true of the sources that posters rely upon.
Thanks for proving my point.
And again, my point is not wether one side vs the other is republican or not. But there's some bad blood between both sides in this one and to take one's word over the other is not "examining the facts" like you would say.
Winehole, can you tell me how you've researched this, fact checked and asked the sources directly to research the facts. After all you're the one that brought this " you must review the facts.", so why don't you be the example.
I didn't weigh in except to say that that the list of supposed lies fits a pattern. I agree with FWD that the list is disputable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignignokt
Oh, I agree with you; that was the point of my first post and it's still my point. I'm not sure why you were so intent upon assuming otherwise previously, but you can be certain that I agree with you. I think that would be a wise thing for everyone here to do -- whatever the result of the examination might be -- and it would be a wise thing for everyone to do in the real world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignignokt