Michael Lind: The Pledge of Allegiance is un-American

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Originally Posted by Def Rowe

:lol Tell me I'm wrong.

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I have never used Meth.

You are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Some are objectively better.

Perhaps someday you'll deign to demonstrate this is so, but I suspect you'll remain regally content to snub the inferior opinions of others without very much ado. Agreement with you appears to be the standard you apply. Whatever is not congruent with you, is faulty.

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Why are you always so worried about the formal aspects of the discourse used by other posters (and, it seems, only those of right-leaning inclination), to the point of entirely forgetting the substantive issues being discussed? Do you apply the same exhaustive and rigorous analysis to yourself?

I'm not sure how do you want me to refute the suggestion that one can't call a said behaviour or worldview childish without having to oblige to the corollary that the act in itself is childish because it's disrespectful of a different opinion.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

I wasn't being a judge in that manner. Just using a term to describe at least a small level of patriotism. You either have heart for something or you don't.

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Wait, wasn't that just an extension of your "one could argue" explanation of patriotism. When did you shift into talking about what you actually believe?

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Originally Posted by mogrovejo

Why are you always so worried about the formal aspects of the discourse used by other posters (and, it seems, only those of right-leaning inclination), to the point of entirely forgetting the substantive issues being discussed?

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The frame matters, too. What did I forget?

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Originally Posted by mogrovejo

Do you apply the same exhaustive and rigorous analysis to yourself?

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I do reflect on what I say, if imperfectly. Is that what you mean?

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Originally Posted by mogrovejo

I'm not sure how do you want me to refute the suggestion that one can't call a said behaviour or worldview childish without having to oblige to the corollary that the act in itself is childish because it's disrespectful of a different opinion.

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The disrespect I don't mind so much. That your disrespectful comments are accompanied by a haughty refusal to say precisely what you mean, grates.

It does not conduce to discussion. But it has just occurred to me that perhaps you are not here to converse with anyone, but instead merely to demonstrate to yourself the intrinsic superiority of you, and your opinions, to others.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

But it has just occurred to me that perhaps you are not here to converse with anyone, but instead merely to demonstrate to yourself the intrinsic superiority of you, and your opinions, to others.

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That's exactly what I often think you do.

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Originally Posted by mogrovejo

That's exactly what I often think you do.

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IMO I'm a bit more user friendly than you, but fair enough.

I try to state my own positions clearly and I do try to understand what others say, and to engage them personally.

Whatever, I'm not here to discuss me or you.

A minute ago you were.

By addressing your remarks, I was making a provisional concession in the name of civility.

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Originally Posted by mogrovejo

By addressing your remarks, I was making a provisional concession in the name of civility.

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Ok. In the interest of civility, I think I'll quit for now.

Ciao, mogrovejo.

Being cajoled to pledge allegiance to the Motherland would seem to go against every ideal upon which this nation was founded, but hey, that's now the "tradition."

Children are sent to public schools to learn how to become good little patriotic and obedient American worker bees. Too bad most of them have to look forward to a life being enslaved to the Chinese. But at least they can say that pledge!

FWIW, que le vaya bien, mogrovejo.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Being cajoled to pledge allegiance to the Motherland would seem to go against every ideal upon which this nation was founded, but hey, that's now the "tradition."

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I wonder if Thomas Jefferson would have ever pledged allegiance to the nation.

Upon reflection, I do wonder how the Fathers of the American revolution would view the idea of a nationalized pledge of allegiance to the nation itself. After all, those very same individuals willingly broke any allegiance to their predecessor sovereign in the interest of their little separatist experiment. I'm not sure that a pledge that can be readily broken can ever really be considered a good one; I'm equally unsure that the revolutionaries who put us here would have been willing to discount the need for further revolution by needlessly taking oaths of allegiance to any nation.

Indeed, if "a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical," why would one ever swear or pledge allegiance to a thing that it might eventually rebel against?

That's pathetic, FWD. Metaphysical madness, some would say. Has to be.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

That's pathetic, FWD. Metaphysical madness, some would say. Has to be.

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Undoubtedly. I'm sure that siding with Thomas Jefferson has outed me as something other than a patriot.

I really doubt it that a lot of 10 year old kids honestly care whether or not gay people can get married. Why would you want your little turd worrying about something trivial? Kids should be kids. Besides, you only get to be a kid once. Kids shouldn't care about politics or "the issues". I bet this kid gets picked on a lot. He's probably one of those kids that always reminds the teacher that homework is due even when the teacher forgets.

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