Tony wanting to pass more?

I got curious because of Tony's obvious deference to his teammates offensively in the past two games. So here's what it looks like after I did the math:

In our wins, Tony is averaging 17.55 ppg and 7.77 apg

In our losses, Tony averages 16.57 ppg and 4.14 apg

Of course, this only includes the games he played in, but it's glaringly obvious to me what the difference has been. He scores just over one point more in our wins, yet has over three and a half more assists per game.

I don't like calling Tony out as a selfish player because I understand that he's basically been our "high flyer" and has had to take on a large part of the offensive scoring in recent history. Now that RJ is here, a lot of us were questioning his ball-hogging and lack of distribution. It seems to me that a light has come on in Tony and it can only bode well for the future of our team.

When he threw that lob for RJ in the Kings game, I really think he surprised himself at how much he enjoyed playing a part in it and how much of a difference a real "high flyer" can make. He's had 11 and 10 assists in the last two games, respectively, and not a single double digit assist game before that. Coincidence? Possibly. It's too small a sample to definitively say, but hopefully the trend continues and RJ becomes more of a focal point of attack.
At the same time, it's not just RJ who is receiving these assists, it's any of the other 4 players on the court with him, building their confidence and getting them involved.

Then again, maybe Tony is just tired of getting beat up inside and he's just going to let RJ take the brunt of the damage :lol

tony had to score more in the past
tony was just doing what pop wanted

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Originally Posted by ducks

tony had to score more in the past
tony was just doing what pop wanted

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I don't understand, is that a rebuttal or something? Because it sounds like you're defending Tony when I haven't accused him of anything. I'm just identifying the stats.

I totally agree with you, which is why I stated that. (the whole "in recent history" thing?)

tony's finished

our best player is aging at an accelerated pace because of bull shit summer ball

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Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded

tony's finished

our best player is aging at an accelerated pace because of bull shit summer ball

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And we have a candidate for this:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141589

I was going to make a thread about this myself, but then I remembered he had 7 TOs last night. Maybe I still should have. Anyway, throughout the season, he's looked like he has the same mindset of last year when he should be moving towards a more "equal opportunity" PG role. Basically, looking to both equally score or pass at any given moment. IMO, this is one of the hardest roles for a PG to play since they neither can focus solely on passing or scoring, but must balance the two - but if Parker wants us to win, it's the role he's going to need to perfect.

The last two games he has come out noticebly different, though. He's primarily looking to set his team up, and has enjoyed success. I expect some see-sawing between the scoring/passing Parker, to so speak. Per the usual "it's only December" talk, it will take time for him to transition into this role but it could be the next step in Parker's evolution.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

I was going to make a thread about this myself, but then I remembered he had 7 TOs last night. Maybe I still should have. Anyway, throughout the season, he's looked like he has the same mindset of last year when he should be moving towards a more "equal opportunity" PG role. Basically, looking to both equally score or pass at any given moment. IMO, this is one of the hardest roles for a PG to play since they neither can focus solely on passing or scoring, but must balance the two - but if Parker wants us to win, it's the role he's going to need to perfect.

The last two games he has come out noticebly different, though. He's primarily looking to set his team up, and has enjoyed success. I expect some see-sawing between the scoring/passing Parker, to so speak. Per the usual "it's only December" talk, it will take time for him to transition into this role but it could be the next step in Parker's evolution.

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+1
If he can balance the two, I think we'll finally see what we've all been waiting to see.
In response to his 7 to's, how bad are those to's really if they're caused because he's trying to pass more? I think eventually they'll come down, but I'll take 7 to's if it equals wins.

Tony has never been a selfish player. He has had moments where he is too selfish, but those are just in game happenings that all players experience. He averages a healthy amount of assist and the Spurs system does not help Tony's numbers.

He needs to get back to full speed. He needs to get healthy. The decision making and comfort will come and the Spurs need TP's offense.

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Originally Posted by Interrohater

+1
If he can balance the two, I think we'll finally see what we've all been waiting to see.
In response to his 7 to's, how bad are those to's really if they're caused because he's trying to pass more? I think eventually they'll come down, but I'll take 7 to's if it equals wins.

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Problem is that the 7 TO's do not equal wins. That will equal losses. The ball movement and decision making will equal wins. Everything else is just a symptom of the movement and decision making.

i've said it before that if tony can take more of an '03 approach than an '08 approach to the game, this team will be better off. i would rather honestly Tony average 14-15 and 9, or 8, than 20-22 and 6. most people will :wow at me saying Tony can average 9 assists, but i think he can. if he can utilize Jefferson's as well as Hill's speed and athleticism in the open court, it'll happen. he's never had two players like that - probably not even one, as he does in R.J. - so it's obviously a new set of circumstancs for Tony to deal with, and i think he he's capable and unselfish enough to create for and defer to them. nobody else on our team has to change his game and style more than Tony. he's starting to get it.

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Originally Posted by Interrohater

+1
If he can balance the two, I think we'll finally see what we've all been waiting to see.

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I hope so.

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In response to his 7 to's, how bad are those to's really if they're caused because he's trying to pass more?

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That depends. The Spurs as a team coughed up 14 points off 10 TOs in the 3rd quarter. That was also when they engineered their big push and made a game out of it. Luckily the Spurs were able to react quickly and take them down early in the 4th, but the small sample of evidence suggests TOs can quickly destroy even large leads.

Having more assists in wins doesn't necessarily mean he's passing more. If he passes the ball, and the shooter misses, he doesn't get the dime. If that happens enough, we lose.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Having more assists in wins doesn't necessarily mean he's passing more. If he passes the ball, and the shooter misses, he doesn't get the dime. If that happens enough, we lose.

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Good point, but since we don't know how many POTENTIAL assists he has, we can only go by what we do know. Which is how many assists he has.
But if you want to go that route, then you can ask how many of those missed shots were created by bad passes or poorly run offensive sets? In addition, how many passes could have been made which might have resulted in points? It's silly to get into the "if" game. The assist totals and averages are merely an indication of his performances. If you choose to ignore them, then so be it.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Having more assists in wins doesn't necessarily mean he's passing more. If he passes the ball, and the shooter misses, he doesn't get the dime. If that happens enough, we lose.

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Dude forget the stats and just watch the game. By just watching the game its VERY clear that Tony is trying more to balance being a scorer and distributor. Tony was the one more than anybody that seemed excited that we had a deeper roster this year and these past two games we're finally seeing Tony take advantage of it. Hopefully he'll keep playing like he has recently and I'm not that worried about his turnovers. He just had a bad night last night as far as that goes.

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Originally Posted by sa_kid20

Dude forget the stats and just watch the game. By just watching the game its VERY clear that Tony is trying more to balance being a scorer and distributor. Tony was the one more than anybody that seemed excited that we had a deeper roster this year and these past two games we're finally seeing Tony take advantage of it. Hopefully he'll keep playing like he has recently and I'm not that worried about his turnovers. He just had a bad night last night as far as that goes.

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:tu I don't understand why people are so defensive about Tony to the point where they won't A) Read and understand what's being said and B) See that Tony himself realizes his game is changing.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Tony has never been a selfish player. He has had moments where he is too selfish, but those are just in game happenings that all players experience. He averages a healthy amount of assist and the Spurs system does not help Tony's numbers.

He needs to get back to full speed. He needs to get healthy. The decision making and comfort will come and the Spurs need TP's offense.

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So are you agreeing or not? I never said that he shouldn't be his usual aggressive self, all I'm saying is that he looks like HE's starting to see that he wants to distribute more. As the averages show, he's only dropping off a point when we win, but he ups his assists by three and a half. You can't dispute that. Yes, the Spurs need Tony's offense, but they also need RJ's offense, and Bonner, and Mason jr. Parker cannot win the game alone. As evidenced by the last two games, he has help and he's starting to see it.

I am agreeing to a certain extent, I was saying that the turnovers won't equal more wins. If he is getting more assists but his TO's are jumping, that will not bode well for the Spurs.

:lol I also agree, to a certain extent. I think because he's trying to implement this different style of play, he may be forcing the issue. Once he gets in a rhythm and knows his players tendencies and abilities, I can envision a double double Tony Parker average, silencing all of his "shoot-first point guard" naysayers. If not double double, then at least up 2 apg on his current avg.

It's nice to see Tony distributing and creating more, it's working out and he looks comfortable with it. I do think Pop has something to do with this. Last season he was in a role of carrying the team, with alot of offense, now he can slow down a little. But still we need his offensive boosts.

I agree with DPG that he needs to get healthy 100%, but we can't afford games without him.

He passes more in the halfcourt set, but still in a fast break he's a selfish guy and never passes, not even in a 3-on-1.

Basically, if he has a running start, he's going to take it to the basket, and lately defenders seem to know that crossover to the left side for the reverse finish is coming and have been pretty good at stopping it.

I think this year he will have his highest assists averages in his career based on our offensive weapons and the new chemistry developing.

"Tony has never been a selfish player."

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

yeah Tony is the most selfish player in the history of modern sport and it's clear that the spurs can't win it all with such a guy runing the point.
let's hope the FO trades his ass before the AS break

bogans last game made tp look great

I don't know if Tony is really trying to pass more...I think it's more the fact that the Tony's assists last year depended on our shooters hitting shots...

With a guy like RJ now his assist numbers have a better chance of going up because he has a guy that he can get the ball to that isn't standing behind the 3 point line...

Last year, most of Tony's assists came out of penetration and kick outs...this year, as we've seen with RJ and we hope to continue, hopefully he can find RJ cutting along the baseline or down the lane, something the Spurs haven't had in years...

I don't think it was ever Tony being selfish, just the fact that if you're trying to get assists from kick out to a 3 point shooter, or from a man cutting down the lane...most PG's assist numbers will be higher with the latter...

I do agree with the majority though, in that if Tony finds his balance he will elevate his game greatly and help the team...

Hopefully, with an athletic 3...naturally his assists should increase about 3 or 4 more a game...

yowza, if they increase by 3 or 4 more a game, he'd be avg'ing about 9 or 10, that would be awesome. But, only awesome if the team is winning.

I think he is the doing the same thing than with the FNT

He try to pass a lot in the beginning of the game to give confidence to the other player and then he play like he always played. And with this he has more gaz at the end of the game

He confirmed it in an interview he was doing that for the FNT

If you look at the last 2 games :

vs Kings :
1st half : 8 assists and 8 pts
2nd half : 3 assists and 10 pts

vs Bobcats :
1st half : 7 assists and 2 pts
2nd half : 3 assists and 7 pts

I agree with that. If you watched TP last year, when he was playing phenomenal, he had not learned how to pace himself. He would often run out of gas late in the game. That happens often to players who make the jump from good, to clear cut offensive leader.

I would like to see him learn to pace himself for the long, up and down games. It will bode well for him and the Spurs in the fourth quarters.

Tony running the show in the background, like a master puppeteer.