One more piece missing on this team

I think even after this team has fully gelled and get in a groove, i still believe we are one piece away from truly contending this year. Our backcourt is all good and could match up with anyone in the NBA; but our front court is what is really worrying when we are matched up against some of the better team in the playoff.

let's assume by the time the playoff rolls around, we will be down to a 8 man rotation (3 bigs rotation):

Spurs: T. Duncan, A. McDyess, M. Bonner or D. Blair

Lakers: P. Gasol, A. Bynum, L. Odom

Nuggets: K. Martin, Nene, C. Andersen

Celtics: K. Garnett, K. Perkins, R. Wallace

Magics: R. Lewis, D. Howard, R. Anderson or M. Gortat

Cavaliers: J. Hickson, S. O' Neal, A. Varejao or Z. Ilgauskas

As you can see our post defense is probably the worst out off all these contending teams. The team that really worries me is the Lakers, there whole team not just there front court is just so big and long; Our front court player is going to have there hands full just trying to guard P. Gasol and A. Bynum; also add in the fact that they also have to help out on K. Bryant and R. Artest... And most likely the 3rd big will be M. Bonner over D. Blair; and i could tell you right now that M. Bonner is going to be SUPER INEFFECTIVE when matched up against the Lakers... Lakers have always been one of the top team in guarding 3 pointers and P. Gasol, A. Bynum, or L. Odom is just going to eat him alive in the post. I'm hoping that D. Blair will be the 3rd big since even though he's undersized but at least he's tough and could impact the game other than hitting the 3's.

Right now we have a abundance of perimeter players on this team, who we could try moving for another big:

Bulls: R. Mason + M. Bonner + I. Mahinmi for T. Thomas + J. Pargo

what this does: it gives us a super athletic 4 with a decent J and shot blocking ability, but could be a bit of a head case.

Clippers: R. Mason + M. Bonner + Pick for M. Camby

what this does: it gives us one of the top rebounder and shot blocker in the league, but is injury prone.

I'm almost sure that this is the team we're gonna have the rest of the season. If you're really worried, then pray that our guys play better than their guys.

Also, they play the games for a reason. If they gave championships based on rosters, I don't think I'd watch.

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Originally Posted by bless1187

Clippers: R. Mason + M. Bonner + Pick for M. Camby

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A note on Camby from Marc Stein's Weekend Dime.

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Contending teams all want an extra big man, no matter how good they think their small-ball team is, because you'll eventually have to deal with the Lakers' array of 7-footers if you have any title aspirations.

That's why the Los Angeles Clippers continue to get calls with offers for veteran center Marcus Camby.

But the Clips, sources say, continue to tell those callers that Camby is off limits.

That stance unexpectedly appeared to loosen up at last February's trading deadline, when the Clips and San Antonio Spurs discussed a Camby deal, but the message we got this week from two well-placed sources is that L.A. is not willing to listen to proposals for Camby, who's in the final year of his contract at $9.2 million.

Especially with Blake Griffin not expected back until after Jan. 1.

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http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/p...trade-eligible

The spurs are going to have to use Ratliff against the lakers.

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Originally Posted by bless1187

I think even after this team has fully gelled and get in a groove, i still believe we are one piece away from truly contending this year. Our backcourt is all good and could match up with anyone in the NBA; but our front court is what is really worrying when we are matched up against some of the better team in the playoff.

let's assume by the time the playoff rolls around, we will be down to a 8 man rotation (3 bigs rotation):

Spurs: T. Duncan, A. McDyess, M. Bonner or D. Blair

Lakers: P. Gasol, A. Bynum, L. Odom

Nuggets: K. Martin, Nene, C. Andersen

Celtics: K. Garnett, K. Perkins, R. Wallace

Magics: R. Lewis, D. Howard, R. Anderson or M. Gortat

Cavaliers: J. Hickson, S. O' Neal, A. Varejao or Z. Ilgauskas

As you can see our post defense is probably the worst out off all these contending teams. The team that really worries me is the Lakers, there whole team not just there front court is just so big and long; Our front court player is going to have there hands full just trying to guard P. Gasol and A. Bynum; also add in the fact that they also have to help out on K. Bryant and R. Artest... And most likely the 3rd big will be M. Bonner over D. Blair; and i could tell you right now that M. Bonner is going to be SUPER INEFFECTIVE when matched up against the Lakers... Lakers have always been one of the top team in guarding 3 pointers and P. Gasol, A. Bynum, or L. Odom is just going to eat him alive in the post. I'm hoping that D. Blair will be the 3rd big since even though he's undersized but at least he's tough and could impact the game other than hitting the 3's.

Right now we have a abundance of perimeter players on this team, who we could try moving for another big:

Bulls: R. Mason + M. Bonner + I. Mahinmi for T. Thomas + J. Pargo

what this does: it gives us a super athletic 4 with a decent J and shot blocking ability, but could be a bit of a head case.

Clippers: R. Mason + M. Bonner + Pick for M. Camby

what this does: it gives us one of the top rebounder and shot blocker in the league, but is injury prone.

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Ill take a injury prone camby over a healthy matt bonner any day. Any day that he can play of course. Lol. Matts good but he will not get us over the mountain. We have a damn good despite the ruff start but we need some real help in the block. Its a problem that stares you right in the eye and dares u to prove it wrong.a lot of people here disagree but if we want it all we will have to make a call. Bottom line.

Bonner will get exposed by the Lakers.

M. Bonner will always struggle against team the guards the 3pt shot well, and the upper tier playoff team all guard the 3's really well. That is why i'm not reading much into M. Bonner's good performances against average defensive team during the regular season. And part of us on the forum predicted a complete meltdown by M. Bonner in the playoff last year, and we were spot on correct.

And what's really obvious is whenever a post player sees M. Bonner guarding him, you could totally tell that there eyes just lights up, and just start bullying there way to the basket.

Its one thing to have D. Nowitzki shooting J's over you but you can't let him bitch you around and take you to the hole like he was doing against M. Bonner... his lack of toughness is something that really bothers me.

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Originally Posted by bless1187

I think even after this team has fully gelled and get in a groove, i still believe we are one piece away from truly contending this year. Our backcourt is all good and could match up with anyone in the NBA; but our front court is what is really worrying when we are matched up against some of the better team in the playoff.

let's assume by the time the playoff rolls around, we will be down to a 8 man rotation (3 bigs rotation):

Spurs: T. Duncan, A. McDyess, M. Bonner or D. Blair

Lakers: P. Gasol, A. Bynum, L. Odom

Nuggets: K. Martin, Nene, C. Andersen

Celtics: K. Garnett, K. Perkins, R. Wallace

Magics: R. Lewis, D. Howard, R. Anderson or M. Gortat

Cavaliers: J. Hickson, S. O' Neal, A. Varejao or Z. Ilgauskas

As you can see our post defense is probably the worst out off all these contending teams. The team that really worries me is the Lakers, there whole team not just there front court is just so big and long; Our front court player is going to have there hands full just trying to guard P. Gasol and A. Bynum; also add in the fact that they also have to help out on K. Bryant and R. Artest... And most likely the 3rd big will be M. Bonner over D. Blair; and i could tell you right now that M. Bonner is going to be SUPER INEFFECTIVE when matched up against the Lakers... Lakers have always been one of the top team in guarding 3 pointers and P. Gasol, A. Bynum, or L. Odom is just going to eat him alive in the post. I'm hoping that D. Blair will be the 3rd big since even though he's undersized but at least he's tough and could impact the game other than hitting the 3's.

Right now we have a abundance of perimeter players on this team, who we could try moving for another big:

Bulls: R. Mason + M. Bonner + I. Mahinmi for T. Thomas + J. Pargo

what this does: it gives us a super athletic 4 with a decent J and shot blocking ability, but could be a bit of a head case.

Clippers: R. Mason + M. Bonner + Pick for M. Camby

what this does: it gives us one of the top rebounder and shot blocker in the league, but is injury prone.

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With the rotations we've seen from Pop the past two years, I can't say I'd be shocked, but I'd be surprised if Ratliff were not in the rotation towards the end of the season and in the playoffs. This team just isn't long enough and doesn't have enough rim protection in the front court to not play him.

Because the Spurs have specific players who provide a specific skill they need and don't have a clearly defined top 8 players, an 8 man rotation is highly unlikely. Of course, this will also be predicated on who the Spurs are playing, but anything under 9 would be surprising and I actually expect we'll see a 10 man rotation.

Camby, to me, makes perfect sense this season and did last season. But I'm not sure it's wise to give up a ton of depth for him. Depth is the Spurs greatest advantage over most teams arguably. The Clippers are supposedly reluctant to move him any way, so it'd be tough to do in terms of giving them what they want and not giving away too many players to match his salary (because it would decimate the depth). People say "trade Mason, Bonner, Finley", yeah and have no one to space the floor other than Ginobili.

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Originally Posted by Duncan2177

The spurs are going to have to use Ratliff against the lakers.

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This is a no brainer. Three keys to beating the Lakers:

1) Parker will have to absolutely destroy the Lakers troika of PG's. Not just win the match-up, but annihilate them.

2) McDyess and Ratliff have to be able to adequately guard the Lakers long front line.

3) The Spurs bench will have to thoroughly dominate the Lakers bench. It can't even be close.

I'm not worried about Bryant, because I think the Spurs are about as equipped to handle him as anyone. Bogans has enough size/strength to theoretically not get murdered in the post; Hill has the length and quickness to theoretically make him work and Ginobili, if he's healthy and in a groove, is capable of coming as close as anyone, save for Wade, to matching Bryant's all-around game at the SG position.

You think our post defense is worse than JJ Hickson and a busted Shaq/Big Z? The Cavs' bigs get destroyed every game consistently. Nene and K-Mart? We have one of the best defenders of all time (Duncan) and one of the better post defenders of his generation (Dice).

I swear, basketball is a simple game. I don't understand where people come up with these kind of claims.

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Originally Posted by the crimson blur

You think our post defense is worse than JJ Hickson and a busted Shaq/Big Z? The Cavs' bigs get destroyed every game consistently. Nene and K-Mart? We have one of the best defenders of all time (Duncan) and one of the better post defenders of his generation (Dice).

I swear, basketball is a simple game. I don't understand where people come up with these kind of claims.

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Not that I'm arguing with you, but the spurs HAD one of the best defenders. Hes still above average, but he's no longer one of the best.

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Originally Posted by murpjf88

Not that I'm arguing with you, but the spurs HAD one of the best defenders. Hes still above average, but he's no longer one of the best.

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:lmao at 2.05 bpg, Timmy is .4 blocks a game away from the league leader and is currently 7th in the NBA.
he's also 1st in the blocks to personal fouls ratio

Just like Timmy to a scoop shot, "get that weak stuff outta here!"

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Originally Posted by the crimson blur

You think our post defense is worse than JJ Hickson and a busted Shaq/Big Z? The Cavs' bigs get destroyed every game consistently. Nene and K-Mart? We have one of the best defenders of all time (Duncan) and one of the better post defenders of his generation (Dice).

I swear, basketball is a simple game. I don't understand where people come up with these kind of claims.

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I guess the thinking is the sheer length and mass of the Cavaliers centers (O'Neal 7'1'' 325, Ilgauskas 7'3'' 260) would have a better chance than the Spurs', which are smaller (Duncan 6'11'' 240, Ratliff 6'10'' 235), but more mobile. Mobility and length are more important than strength against Bynum and Gasol, who are 7'0'' 285 (really 7'1'' 272) and 7'0'' 250, because neither is a bruiser in the mold of an O'Neal. Gasol in particular lacks strength and is strictly a finesse player. I agree with you that the Spurs centers would have a better chance than the Cavaliers centers at adequately guarding the Lakers centers.

Nene and Martin are a solid defensive duo, yet it was apparent that neither had the length to match the Lakers in the playoffs last season. This is what I'm concerned about: Nene 6'11'' 250, Martin 6'9'' 240, Anderson 6'10'' 228, Duncan 6'11'' 240, McDyess 6'9'' 245, Bonner 6'10'' (really 6'8'' 1/2 - 6'9'') 240, Ratliff 6'10'' 235 (though he looks bigger, particularly weight wise). As you can see, very little separation size-wise. McDyess is a solid defender, but one of the best of his generation? That's taking it too far.

Basketball is a cerebral game.

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Originally Posted by Interrohater

:lmao at 2.05 bpg, Timmy is .4 blocks a game away from the league leader and is currently 7th in the NBA.
he's also 1st in the blocks to personal fouls ratio

Just like Timmy to a scoop shot, "get that weak stuff outta here!"

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Its actually 2.00. ;)

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Originally Posted by bless1187

M. Bonner will always struggle against team the guards the 3pt shot well, and the upper tier playoff team all guard the 3's really well. That is why i'm not reading much into M. Bonner's good performances against average defensive team during the regular season. And part of us on the forum predicted a complete meltdown by M. Bonner in the playoff last year, and we were spot on correct.

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The Lakers don't guard the three against the Spurs. They basically leave it wide open and dare our guards to knock them down. They prefer to clog the middle and stop Tony and Manu from going crazy in the paint.

Matt Bonner has struggled against the Lakers because he chokes, not because the Lakers guard the three well.

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Originally Posted by spurspokesman

Ill take a injury prone camby over a healthy matt bonner any day. Any day that he can play of course. Lol. Matts good but he will not get us over the mountain. We have a damn good despite the ruff start but we need some real help in the block. Its a problem that stares you right in the eye and dares u to prove it wrong.a lot of people here disagree but if we want it all we will have to make a call. Bottom line.

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Agree. Camby would give the spurs a fighting chance. If they go in with Bonner playing big minutes they are not get past the Lakers.

Ratliff basically has to be the third big in order to give the Spurs their best chance at beating the Lakers.

Bonner's playing time should be predicated on whether or not the team as a whole is shooting the 3 (even mid-long range) well. If the team as a whole is struggling in this regard (I'm guessing Finley plays sparingly; Mason not at all, save for a blow out either way), then you'll probably see Bonner play more. If they're shooting the ball adequately and the Lakers have to respect them, then Bonner will probably play less.

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say they'd struggle shooting the ball with the rotation I outlined. It's simply a matter of percentages. Guys like Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, McDyess and Hill can all make shots from various ranges at a decent clip, but not one is a dead-eye shooter. A healthy and in a groove Ginobili is the closest thing to it and arguably McDyess if he's in a groove, but overall the percentages are against this happening. Particularly because it's difficult, even with good shooters, to shoot well against the Lakers because of their length, quickness and athleticism.

Mike Dunleavy won't confirm reports of trade offers for Marcus Camby
Coach says the forward has been 'great' and that the team has 'a lot of guys that have a lot of interest from a lot of people.'
Mark Medina

Clippers Coach Mike Dunleavy declined to confirm a recent report that said that various NBA teams have made trade offers for starting forward Marcus Camby.

In the last year of a contract worth $9.1 million, Camby goes into Sunday's game against the San Antonio Spurs ranked fifth in the league in blocks (2.1 per game) and sixth in rebounding (11.0 per game).

"Marcus has been great," Dunleavy said. "We have a lot of guys that have a lot of interest from a lot of people."

As for the rest of the Clippers roster, Dunleavy said the team has no immediate needs beyond forward Blake Griffin fully recovering from a stress fracture in his left knee that has kept him out for all 21 games.

Camby avoided interviews after today's practice, but said earlier in the week that extra stretching, conditioning and effort has helped him averaged double digits in rebounds for the last seven seasons.

"We have a lot of guys capable of scoring," said Camby, who averages 8.4 points per game. "We need guys who go out there and do the little things to balance out our team. That's what I try to focus on."

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Originally Posted by TD 21

I guess the thinking is the sheer length and mass of the Cavaliers centers (O'Neal 7'1'' 325, Ilgauskas 7'3'' 260) would have a better chance than the Spurs', which are smaller (Duncan 6'11'' 240, Ratliff 6'10'' 235), but more mobile.

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The Cleveland frontline is one of the worst in the league defensively. Shaq and Big Z get lost in the pick and roll, JJ is arguably the worst starter in his position, and despite their length, they barely block/alter shots.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

Nene and Martin are a solid defensive duo, yet it was apparent that neither had the length to match the Lakers in the playoffs last season.

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As you say that, Lou Amundson beasts on them. Nah, they aren't good at all, and neither should ever be used in the same breath as Tim Duncan.

Don't underestimate our talent. Once (or if) we put it all together, it will be a beautiful thing.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

I'm not worried about Bryant, because I think the Spurs are about as equipped to handle him as anyone. Bogans has enough size/strength to theoretically not get murdered in the post; Hill has the length and quickness to theoretically make him work and Ginobili, if he's healthy and in a groove, is capable of coming as close as anyone, save for Wade, to matching Bryant's all-around game at the SG position.

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Are you kidding? Didn't you see how Ray Allen destroyed Bogans? Bogans is a great defender but he has his limits. He struggles against taller guards. IMO we currently don't have anyone to guard the Kobe, the wades, or the LEbrons. Unless RJ steps it up and becomes a consistent defender we don't have anyone that can match them body wise.

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Originally Posted by Chomag

Are you kidding? Didn't you see how Ray Allen destroyed Bogans? Bogans is a great defender but he has his limits. He struggles against taller guards. IMO we currently don't have anyone to guard the Kobe, the wades, or the LEbrons. Unless RJ steps it up and becomes a consistent defender we don't have anyone that can match them body wise.

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Their is no single defender in the league that can guard Kobe and Lebron. Their are only a few players that can even slow them down, and their not wearing a spur's uniform.

RJ will never be that guy.

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Originally Posted by murpjf88

Their is no single defender in the league that can guard Kobe and Lebron. Their are only a few players that can even slow them down, and their not wearing a spur's uniform.

RJ will never be that guy.

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Agreed that no one can stop elite scorers like Melo,Kobe, Lebron, and wade. However we need somone that can at least make them work for it.

I don't see defense being too big of a problem. I see turnovers as the problem. If Hill still cannot run the offense properly, we may have to shift him to SG, his natural position, and trade for a point guard.

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Rumor has it that Ramon Sessions may be shipped out. And I like Ryan Gomes from the Wolves. Because Sessions cannot be traded until 3 months after he signed his contract. This deal would need to be done after the timeline.

The Spurs give out Roger Mason ($3,780,000) + Ian Mahinmi ($989,670) + Matt Bonner ($3,256,500) = $8,026,170

The Timberwolves give out Ryan Gomes ($3,892,500) + Ramon Sessions ($3,670,667) = $7,563,167

Don't bother checking this with trade machines because it wouldn't work as I have explained earlier. The numbers work in the CBA.

Explaination for the Spurs: We get a backup PG in Ramon Sessions and shift George Hill to full time SG, he can handle PG duties in sporadic minutes or when there is an injury. George Hill's natural position is the SG, and his potential can be maximised there. he is clearly not a playmaker, he is a slasher though. We also get a competent backup small forward/power forward in Ryan Gomes and get size for the SF spot. You would not want Michael Finley playing minutes, would you? The Spurs also get some tax relief, albeit only a little. Oh ya, Sessions can play some 2 guard for a while too, so you can play both Sessions and Hill together for some stretches when guys like Manu and Tony need some rest.

Explanation for the Wolves: Both Sessions and Gomes do not fit the team's future plan. They have Flynn and Rubio's rights. They are also long contracts. The Wolves have expressed interest in the 2010 FA class (that is what Kahn said), with players like Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay to accompany Al Jefferson and Kevin Love. Our expiring contracts give the Wolves more cap space come 2010. They also get a prospect in Ian Mahinmi, not much, but hey, it is something. If the Wolves don't like him, he is just another expiring contract. The Spurs might add a 1st, though, but the Wolves have too many draft picks or we might give them Malik Hairston. Roger Mason and Matt Bonner are what the Wolves need to stretch the floor. The Wolves lack shooters.

So, do both teams do it? I thought a lot about this and it is certainly not a one-sided trade.

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Quoted myself in the general trades discussion from the think tank.

I live in LA and have a good amount of Laker's game, and this team do look very scary. This team just got so much length and because of that it disrupts the opponents offense, as you could see last year in the final, the Magics were one of the top 3pt shooting team, but they struggled against the Lakers because of their length, they were able to bother a lot of the passes and just overall disrupt what the Magics were doing. As much there's talk about the Lakers losing a bit with R. Artest, but let me tell you this Laker's team is even better than last year's team with a healthy A. Bynum and R. Artest.

Some of you are talking like we are one of the better post defensive team in the NBA, that's not true at all, we are at best a average post defensive team, not that i'm trying to undermine this team...

T. Duncan: he's still one of the better post defender in the league but he's no where near what he was a few years ago where he was able to hold down the whole interior defense on his own. The only player in this league that is capable of doing that is D. Howard.

A. McDyess: let's not get carried away, "one of the better post defender of our generation?!?!" he is a decent post defender who works hard on every play, but he's nothing special or close to being one of the better post defender of our generation.

M. Bonner: provides 3pt shooting and effort on the board; but would be seriously exposed when matched up against the more physical post player in the playoff; even D. Nowitzki out-physicaled him last year in the playoff.

D. Blair: outstanding rebounder and i been fairly impressed with how much he improved on D in the span of two month. though undersized, i think he needs to eventually have a increase in his minutes at the expense of M. Bonner.

T. Ratliff: he is a fringe player, let's admit it, this guy was brought here to fill the K. Willis role. people are talking like pop is preserving him for the playoff, but the truth is that he's not, limiting his minutes to 10-15 mpg would be preserving him for the playoff, but being a constant DNP-CD just means that he is probably not going to be in the rotation.

Out of all these contending team, only the Cavs are equivalent of us in terms of post defense. LOL to the poster who suggested K. Martin and Nene to be trash on defense; lets just say i would take any of the two over what we have in the post other than T. Duncan. Bigs are supposed to play like Bigs; not stand behind the 3pt line and shoot 3's all days.

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Originally Posted by bless1187

Out of all these contending team, only the Cavs are equivalent of us in terms of post defense.

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K.

The fact of the matter is that roster decisions shouldn't be made based on what other teams are doing, especially this early in the season. In December, its all about us. Reduce our turnovers, fix some mistakes, and get a solid rotation. Then judge us for what we are and see where to go from there.

I think all the spurs need is a hot silver dancer. Not just a hot body but a pretty face

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Originally Posted by I. Hustle

I think all the spurs need is a hot silver dancer. Not just a hot body but a pretty face

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+1

Call me the eternal optimist, but I feel like we already have the pieces to get there. Sure, it would be nice to have Tim, D. Howard, Tony, Lebron, and Wade as our starting five, but we've got quite a deep team as it is. Do we have all-stars at all positions? No, and neither does any other team, but we've got a lot of guys who are crazy talented and are really hungry for a title. We've got arguably the deepest bench in the league, a defensive (and patient) minded coach who just got a new recliner for Christmas, but it requires some assembly, a perennial all-star who's still getting his double-double every night, a superstar point guard who's really just starting to peak, a healthy x-factor that nobody in the NBA has ever had an answer for, and on and on and on.

This will be a great team, they will astonish us. We will cheer, we will cry, we will fight back the tears as they begin to remind the league once again, to never count out the San Antonio Spurs.

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Originally Posted by Interrohater

:lmao at 2.05 bpg, Timmy is .4 blocks a game away from the league leader and is currently 7th in the NBA.
he's also 1st in the blocks to personal fouls ratio

Just like Timmy to a scoop shot, "get that weak stuff outta here!"

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If Duncan is so good on D, then why doesn't he guard the opponent's best offensive player. We had Bonner on Dirk all game long against Dallas. Why wasn't Timmy covering Dirk?

I can understand that maybe we wanted to keep Tim out of foul trouble, but Duncan did not cover Dirk the WHOLE game, even at the end.

And, people, our front courts in our 2005 and 2007 Championship teams were hardly exceptional, either. Heck, we probably have a better front court now than we did then. Yet we still got two rings.

We'll be fine just as long as Dice comes around... and I think he will... Ratliff should get spare minutes and should help us protect the rim. And Bonner will be helpful against their bench big (powell) IF he's hitting shots. Otherwise, just throw Blair in there.

What are Pargo and Tyrus Thomas going to do? Mason is arguable as good or better than Pargo. Tyrus Thomas is a very dumb basketball player right now. Gasol could probably toy with him all night.

I would take a chance on a Camby for Bonner and Finley type of deal, but the clips don't seem to be interested in getting rid of Camby, and they'll probably want to package some other bad contract with him (like Kaman).

superjames' 2 posts on this page are horrible..

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Originally Posted by Interrohater

+1

Call me the eternal optimist, but I feel like we already have the pieces to get there. Sure, it would be nice to have Tim, D. Howard, Tony, Lebron, and Wade as our starting five, but we've got quite a deep team as it is. Do we have all-stars at all positions? No, and neither does any other team, but we've got a lot of guys who are crazy talented and are really hungry for a title. We've got arguably the deepest bench in the league, a defensive (and patient) minded coach who just got a new recliner for Christmas, but it requires some assembly, a perennial all-star who's still getting his double-double every night, a superstar point guard who's really just starting to peak, a healthy x-factor that nobody in the NBA has ever had an answer for, and on and on and on.

This will be a great team, they will astonish us. We will cheer, we will cry, we will fight back the tears as they begin to remind the league once again, to never count out the San Antonio Spurs.

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The optimist spin right now is that we are finally fully healthy (lol Fin), our SRS, the best indicator of how good a team is, is actually 5th in the league despite our rocky start, our defense has gotten better and better brinking on absolute dominance, we have demolished teams on the board consistently lately, Tim Duncan is playing phenomenal, and even if our turnovers become a long-term habit, which I doubt they will because a Pop coached team never is, we won't have many 28 TO nights anyways.

Do I believe the spin? Well I want to, but I am more the type to watch things play out. As Pop says "we either are going to be good enough or we wont."

I agree that beating LA looks like a tall order at this point. They seem like a juggernaut, especially when compared with the way the Spurs are playing right now.

But its all about peaking at the right time. To analogize, the NY Giants looked invincible at the beginning of this football season but are now fighting for a playoff spot. Hopefully, LA is peaking early and will experience difficulty later, whether it be from injury, bad play, or a combination thereof.

As Spurs fan, given the mediocre play so far, we can only hope that this team will be peaking late in the season when it matters. And there is reason to believe that will happen, based on our history and the fact that we have a lot of new players.

That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to a trade to improve our chances inside against an LA team that features 3 top flight 6'10" and above players. I'm not sure that such a trade is feasible, but if it could happen, I'd be in favor.

My ideas in that department are as follows:

1. Use Bonner as a trade piece. This is probably a popular idea and with good reason. His usefulness in the playoffs is dubious. He's probably at the height of his trade value right now while he's in the midst of a career year and also (maybe not coincidentally) in the last year of his contract. He's also a "big" who "can score".

2. Target Washington as a trade partner. They have three bigs in whom I'd be interested -- McGee, Blatche, and Haywood. Two of the three are likely considered untouchable by management, but one of them might be obtainable. To get one, we'd probably have to absorb a bad contract, I'm guessing Mike James'. That's just a question of Spurs' ownership being willing to take on the salary of a guy who won't play. Just consider it extra salary for the big whom we would use.

My guess though is that we won't make a move unless its for something awesome like Camby. We've had enough troubles integrating new guys and I don't think Pop relishes the idea of working another new guy into the mix later in the season. And I think it would have to be a crucial guy, otherwise it doesn't make sense for us to make the deal if the guy won't play a big role down the stretch.

So don't hold your breath for a big deal. I think we're stuck hoping our existing guys mesh. And I don't think that's a farfetched hope.

Brendan Haywood would be my dream trade, but he's expiring too, so we'd probably have to throw in some nice sweeteners and/or get a 3rd team involved..

a Camby move for a combination of our non-Manu expirings would be fine with me..

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Brendan Haywood would be my dream trade, but he's expiring too, so we'd probably have to throw in some nice sweeteners and/or get a 3rd team involved..

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Exactly. When I looked at Washington on the trade machine, they don't have too many bad contracts to absorb. Most of their guys are signed for a year or two. It seemed like Mike James was their worst contract for the money. Also, of course, there's the issue of whether ownership would be willing to take on more money/years given the commitment with Jefferson and others.

Theo was brought in with the Lakers in mind. I'm curious to see what he can bring on the defensive end.

Also, it will help us tremendously against the Lakers if Dice can keep one of their bigs honest by knocking down his jumper from the top of the key.

BTW, I'm Impressed this didnt deteriorate into a Tiago Splitter thread.

Who are all these awesome post and interior defenders out there? Besides Dwight, Garnett, and IMO Timmy D, who are all the big time interior defenders out there that everyone keeps talking about? Sure we can name some guys who get a couple of blocks a night (Brock Lopez, Eric Dampier, Samuel Dalembert). Any of these guys you consider lock down defenders? These are the guys that would shut Dirk down? Make Pau go scoreless? Seriously, I realize Bonner isn't the best but he's a bench player. how many bigs coming off a teams bench are big time defenders?

Bringing in another big man would be great. But hell, it'd be great for any team. I'm pretty pleased with the depth of the Spurs big men as they are. I'd bet a lot of other teams out there would be happy to have Blair and Ratliff as their 4th and 5th big men.

It's a team game. I think that once this Spurs team really gets it going, they're easily one of the best in the league.

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Originally Posted by CGD

Theo was brought in with the Lakers in mind. I'm curious to see what he can bring on the defensive end.

Also, it will help us tremendously against the Lakers if Dice can keep one of their bigs honest by knocking down his jumper from the top of the key.

BTW, I'm Impressed this didnt deteriorate into a Tiago Splitter thread.

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Don't jinx it!

But re Lakers: my thinking has been that this season might come down to whether Dice can do a decent job on Gasol. Given Bynum's size and development down low, I think Tim needs to guard him and if Dice can do a decent job on Gasol, we have a fighting chance. I don't know though. Part of me keeps hoping for a Lakers injury, and that makes me feel bad.

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Originally Posted by harlemheat37

superjames' 2 posts on this page are horrible..

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+1

If Chicago accepts Tyrus Thomas for Roger Mason and Ian...I say pull the trigger

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Originally Posted by VI_Massive

Don't jinx it!

But re Lakers: my thinking has been that this season might come down to whether Dice can do a decent job on Gasol. Given Bynum's size and development down low, I think Tim needs to guard him and if Dice can do a decent job on Gasol, we have a fighting chance. I don't know though. Part of me keeps hoping for a Lakers injury, and that makes me feel bad.

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Hopefully Ratliff can slow one of them down significantly. Most likely Bynum, or Gasol if I'm wrong and the Spaniard is the slower player.

There is no question that the Lakers' FC will/would give us a hell of a lot of problems, but that goes for any team, not just for the Spurs. I'd also agree that the Celtics's FC (IF healthy) is probably better than ours, but Cleveland? Come on ...

I'm quite sure Theo will be part of the big man rotation in the playoffs to protect the rim, block some shots and give the team some length - after all, that's what he was brought here to do. If Blair keeps improving on D, he could play his role as well.

Call me crazy and i've harped and harped on Matt Bonner in the past for his playoff failures but he is going to turn it around this year, just watch. There is a new confidence brimming in this kid that I haven't seen before.

I think a confident Matt Bonner is a heckuva weapon to have on the bench.

When he gets his stroke going just at the right time (against the lakers, for instance) he can singlehandedly shift the entire momentum the spurs' way.

The question shouldn't be "What leftovers can we get for Matt Bonner by the trade deadline?", it should be "How can we afford not to have this guy bringing his unique shooting skillset off the bench?"

Foster or Collison >>> Camby on this roster... :wakeup

they wanted hill, oberto and bowen for him last year.

we got bonner, ian, haislip, and splitter, mason and finley to trade with now?

I think we are getting camby.

No, I don't think Camby is available for the Spurs' offers. The only prospect the Spurs are willing to give up is Ian (if he is still a prospect.) The Clippers have DeAndre Jordan as a center prospect and have no need for Ian in their roster as another extra prospect. The Spurs are not willing to part away with George Hill, unless an all-star calibre player is coming to the Spurs, even then the Spurs may not do it. Dejuan Blair was a pick almost every team shied away from. It has barely been a quarter through the season and there is no way the GMs around the league are going to admit that Dejuan Blair can be in the league for long. Unless the Spurs take on a "bad" contract, the Spurs would not get a player like Camby, who is an expiring. I don't know whether management would give up a future 1st for Camby although I don't think he is the answer to inerior defense. I agree with HarlemHeat37 for a guy like Brendan Haywood, but the trade scenario is similar even the prospect bigs like Javale McGee.

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Originally Posted by superjames1992

And, people, our front courts in our 2005 and 2007 Championship teams were hardly exceptional, either. Heck, we probably have a better front court now than we did then. Yet we still got two rings.

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The league is not the same as in 2005 or 2007. The formula for success has changed. Teams have improved since then and the Lakers are now a powerhouse.

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Originally Posted by PublicOption

they wanted hill, oberto and bowen for him last year.

we got bonner, ian, haislip, and splitter, mason and finley to trade with now?

I think we are getting camby.

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None of those guys in any sort of package will get you Camby.

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Originally Posted by superjames1992

If Duncan is so good on D, then why doesn't he guard the opponent's best offensive player. We had Bonner on Dirk all game long against Dallas. Why wasn't Timmy covering Dirk?

I can understand that maybe we wanted to keep Tim out of foul trouble, but Duncan did not cover Dirk the WHOLE game, even at the end.

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The spurs don't want Duncan trying to run around the court guarding Dirk. Dirk is not a low post player. That would be a poor matchup for Duncan and will get him in foul trouble.

I think there is a fair chance the Spurs could land Thomas or Collison.

Thomas is restricted after the season, which complicates things. And he's a debatable fit. But in terms of adding younger athletes, he's what they had hoped for in Haislip, just better. 5x the cost.

Collison makes all sorts of sense and his contract fits into the current cap strategy.

Raja Bell makes sense too.

Dorrell Wright, James Jones, and Andres Nocioni are options too.

Finally, I think Boris Diaw would be ideal for a variety of reasons, but I doubt the Spurs would trade for a guy whose contract would all but make resigning Ginobili possible. Having said that, the Bobcats might unload his contract in February if their chances at the postseason are slim.

In my estimation, the Spurs are best served to trade for a player who is a 3-4 or 4-3 simply because they won't have minutes otherwise. Factor in more minutes for Blair next season and the possible addition of Splitter, and the projected minutes are even more tight.

But for the immediate playoffs, the backcourt rotation is Parker-Ginobili-Hill and either Bogans or Mason, depending on what the team needs. The front court is Duncan-McDyess-Bonner and maybe Blair or Ratliff, depending. The only place I can see the Spurs using another player is an upgrade reserve for Jefferson--and RJ will play at least 35 minutes a game during the postseason.

Watching Casspi the other night, I couldn't help but think that type of combination forward would be perfect for the Spurs off the bench. You can see why the Spurs have targeted players like Casspi and Batum in recent drafts.

One other wrinkle to add to this is that if it's taking a full season for experienced players like Dice and RJ to learn the system, you can't expect anybody coming in to be an impact player for the same reason. As a good example, look at Gooden last year. He wasn't a bad player for us, but he was so lost on defense, it made a huge hole in the middle.
With that in mind, I think we're going to have to figure out how to win with this roster.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

One other wrinkle to add to this is that if it's taking a full season for experienced players like Dice and RJ to learn the system, you can't expect anybody coming in to be an impact player for the same reason. As a good example, look at Gooden last year. He wasn't a bad player for us, but he was so lost on defense, it made a huge hole in the middle.
With that in mind, I think we're going to have to figure out how to win with this roster.

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Well, Gooden has kinda always looked lost on defense his entire career. :lol

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Originally Posted by urunobili

Foster or Collison >>> Camby on this roster... :wakeup

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Foster is done imo. His rebounding has fallen off, his chronic back issues have caught up to him and his offense is non-existent.

Collison is a good player, but taking out contracts and likelihood of a trade, no question Camby is much better for the Spurs than Collison or Foster imo.

Guys, you can't just "take out contracts and likelihood of a trade". Otherwise, this just turns into any sort of dream team wish list.

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Originally Posted by Mr.Robinson

Bonner will get exposed by the Lakers.

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What?

I thought he was already exposed

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Originally Posted by Interrohater

Guys, you can't just "take out contracts and likelihood of a trade". Otherwise, this just turns into any sort of dream team wish list.

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Well, he was saying from a basketball perspective as I understood it. From a basketball perspective, Camby on the Spurs > Collison/Foster. But I don't think the Clippers are willing to trade Camby.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Well, he was saying from a basketball perspective as I understood it. From a basketball perspective, Camby on the Spurs > Collison/Foster. But I don't think the Clippers are willing to trade Camby.

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:tu

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Originally Posted by the crimson blur

The Cleveland frontline is one of the worst in the league defensively. Shaq and Big Z get lost in the pick and roll, JJ is arguably the worst starter in his position, and despite their length, they barely block/alter shots.



As you say that, Lou Amundson beasts on them. Nah, they aren't good at all, and neither should ever be used in the same breath as Tim Duncan.

Don't underestimate our talent. Once (or if) we put it all together, it will be a beautiful thing.

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Did I argue that? All I said was that some people's line of thinking is that the sheer length and mass of the Cavaliers front line would stand a better chance against the Lakers front line than the Spurs. Didn't say I agreed with that; in fact, I said that I disagreed with that.

Never draw conclusions from one game. The Nuggets front line is solid defensively and I didn't use any of them in the same breath as Duncan. The point is, if the Nuggets front line, which is comparable to the Spurs front line in size, had trouble defending the Lakers bigs in the playoffs last year, then that's not a great sign for the Spurs. It doesn't mean they can't/won't do a better job, though.

I'm not underestimating the Spurs talent.

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Originally Posted by Chomag

Are you kidding? Didn't you see how Ray Allen destroyed Bogans? Bogans is a great defender but he has his limits. He struggles against taller guards. IMO we currently don't have anyone to guard the Kobe, the wades, or the LEbrons. Unless RJ steps it up and becomes a consistent defender we don't have anyone that can match them body wise.

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Perfect example of someone not understanding the game. Bogans did in fact struggle defending Allen, but Allen and Bryant are two very different players. Theoretically, at least, Bogans should match-up better with Bryant. It has nothing to do with who's better between the two, it's simply a matter of style. Allen is in constant motion and usually runs his man ragged chasing him through and around myriad screens. Bryant has the ball in his hands a lot more and initiates his own offense. He doesn't drive as much anymore and plays more in the post, which is why I suspect Bogans has a fighting chance at at least making it difficult for Bryant to do what he does. Bogans has the strength and the tenacity to keep Bryant from getting to his spot and this also masks Bogans' greatest weakness as a defender, which is his lack of overwhelming athleticism/quickness.

Very few players in the league can guard those players effectively, or limit them. I'm not expecting that from the Spurs, nor do I find it to be the key to beating the Lakers (I outlined my keys on page 1, if you care). All I'm expecting is that they guard him adequatey and make him work on the other end; two things I think the Spurs are capable of.

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Originally Posted by superjames1992

And, people, our front courts in our 2005 and 2007 Championship teams were hardly exceptional, either. Heck, we probably have a better front court now than we did then. Yet we still got two rings.

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You're right, but here's where your theory is flawed: the league has changed drastically since then. The other main contenders now have a lot better and bigger front courts than the contenders in '05 and '07 did. Except for when the Spurs played the Pistons, that was always their biggest advantage against the Mavs and Suns. Those teams just didn't have anyone who could even come close to guarding Duncan adequately. The difference now is the Lakers, Celtics, Magic and Nuggets do have players who should be able to do an adequate job on Duncan and Duncan is no longer at his absolute peak (though his decline is greatly exaggerated).

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Originally Posted by ElNono

We'll be fine just as long as Dice comes around... and I think he will... Ratliff should get spare minutes and should help us protect the rim. And Bonner will be helpful against their bench big (powell) IF he's hitting shots. Otherwise, just throw Blair in there.

What are Pargo and Tyrus Thomas going to do? Mason is arguable as good or better than Pargo. Tyrus Thomas is a very dumb basketball player right now. Gasol could probably toy with him all night.

I would take a chance on a Camby for Bonner and Finley type of deal, but the clips don't seem to be interested in getting rid of Camby, and they'll probably want to package some other bad contract with him (like Kaman).

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Barring injury, there's virtually no chance of Powell being in the Lakers rotation in the playoffs. He isn't even in it now, as they're essentially playing 8 guys most nights.

Agreed. Mason is better than Pargo and Thomas doesn't have the size, nor the basketball IQ to effectively guard Gasol.

The Clippers say that now, but if they're out of the race or close to it by the deadline, their stance might change. Like a lot of teams, they don't want to take on salary for after this season, so the deal would have to be expiring contracts + either a promising young player or a 1st round pick, I presume. With Splitter (hopefully), Blair and Hill are likely to be in the Spurs top 9-10 next year (which means that roughly a third of the rotation would be quality young players; more than enough when you're trying to win a championship) and their commitment to trying to win the championship this season, I suspect the Spurs would give up the 1st round pick in a second if it landed them Camby. Potentially significantly improving their chances is more important than another early-mid twenties draft pick, even in the event that they got a useful player out of it.