Richard Jefferson: Sinking the Spurs

Richard Jefferson: Sinking the Spurs
By Alex McVeigh

When you think about it, Richard Jefferson was brought to the San Antonio Spurs and asked to do the impossible: combat father time.

After all, more than a decade of deep playoff runs has taken its toll on Tim Duncan, and Manu Ginobili and even young buck Tony Parker have proven that they are not immune to the injury bug either.

So they traded for Richard Jefferson, with an aged Bruce Bowen as the only loss of consequence, and they added a player who is capable of adding everything that Bowen gave them, and more.

After all, as long as Richard Jefferson could hit the corner three and defend, that would negate the loss of Bowen.

On paper, this put the Spurs right up there with the Lakers as the teams to beat in the Western conference, and most of the talking heads were split something like 60-40 on who would win the West, the Lakers or Spurs.

But that’s why the games are played. Because the Spurs are currently at 13-10, which is good for second in the Southwest and seventh place in the West.

As last season’s first round series with the Mavericks showed, the Spurs were sorely lacking in the athleticism department. The fact that they lost to the Mavericks, who were then even more out-athleticized by the Denver Nuggets, really shows the bind they were in.

But Richard Jefferson has basically been a black hole for them on offense, and given that the usually defensively minded Spurs are giving up 97.2 points per game, good for only 10th in the NBA.

Looking from afar, it just doesn’t seem to make sense. After all, how can there be such a drop-off from from glorified role player Bowen to 20 PPG scorer Jefferson.

Take a look at the stats, Jefferson is having his worst career scoring-wise since the started playing starter’s minutes. He’s shooting less than he ever has as a starter, and while his FG% and three-point percentage is okay, his free throw shooting is abysmal.

Simply put, he hasn’t become the offensive playmaker the Spurs wanted and needed him to be. He’s only cracked 20 points four times, and scored in the single digits eight times.

With Manu Ginobili battling ankle injuries, Tim Duncan having lost a step or two, Jefferson was supposed to be the stopgap to keep the Spurs’ window open another season or two.

Tim Duncan has been playing great this year, and could be a legit MVP candidate if the Spurs were to claim a top-four seed in the West. Matt Bonner, yes Matt Bonner, has been having a career year, giving the Spurs value from what was supposed to have been a guy to eat up minutes in the frontcourt.

Even DeJuan Blair, in limited minutes, is showing enough to make almost every team sorry they passed on him. But the Spurs are still struggling.

Against the Suns the other night, Jefferson was riding the pine during crunch time, as Roger Mason Jr. took his spot on the floor. I’m a big Roger Mason fan, and I think he should be on the floor at crunch time fi you’re down, but the fact that this journeyman role player was given the minutes over the Spurs biggest trade acquisition in recent memory?

Not a good sign.

Now, there is still hope for the Spurs. After all, there’s a reason that Jefferson is a career 17 PPG scorer. The fact that he’s still young (29), and is four points off that average is troubling, but a regression to the mean is possible. In his case, it wouldn’t be a regression, more of a progression.

Jefferson has clearly been a pretty big disappointment so far this season, and i hate the "its early" argument just as much as the next guy, but the fact is, its still too early to write him off just yet.

if things still look this disorganized come all-star break, then i think we have some serious issues.

the reason why i think any of us still believe in Rj is because his smarts and his positive attitude, it really sucks that this is happening, but hopefully we can pull it together.

I was against this trade from day 1. This guy is NOT an impact player. He will never be an impact player for the spurs. I think reality is finally starting to sink in.

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But Richard Jefferson has basically been a black hole for them on offense

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That's not true.

I would be more accepting of Jefferson's 13 PPG average this season if he were bringing it on the defensive end. Unfortunately, he's not.

So far, Jefferson has been one of the streakiest players I've ever seen. If he's hitting shots and in a groove, he looks great. Even with his poor defensive mechanics, he seems to hound better. When he's missing shots, he totally takes himself out of his element. It's like he floats on both ends.

I think getting the offense geared toward him a little more would go a long way, but I'd still much rather see a player who can still bring other things to the table even when his shots aren't falling or he's not getting touches.

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Originally Posted by duncan228

Richard Jefferson: Sinking the Spurs
By Alex McVeigh

When you think about it, Richard Jefferson was brought to the San Antonio Spurs and asked to do the impossible: combat father time.

After all, more than a decade of deep playoff runs has taken its toll on Tim Duncan, and Manu Ginobili and even young buck Tony Parker have proven that they are not immune to the injury bug either.

So they traded for Richard Jefferson, with an aged Bruce Bowen as the only loss of consequence, and they added a player who is capable of adding everything that Bowen gave them, and more.

After all, as long as Richard Jefferson could hit the corner three and defend, that would negate the loss of Bowen.

On paper, this put the Spurs right up there with the Lakers as the teams to beat in the Western conference, and most of the talking heads were split something like 60-40 on who would win the West, the Lakers or Spurs.

But that’s why the games are played. Because the Spurs are currently at 13-10, which is good for second in the Southwest and seventh place in the West.

As last season’s first round series with the Mavericks showed, the Spurs were sorely lacking in the athleticism department. The fact that they lost to the Mavericks, who were then even more out-athleticized by the Denver Nuggets, really shows the bind they were in.

But Richard Jefferson has basically been a black hole for them on offense, and given that the usually defensively minded Spurs are giving up 97.2 points per game, good for only 10th in the NBA.

Looking from afar, it just doesn’t seem to make sense. After all, how can there be such a drop-off from from glorified role player Bowen to 20 PPG scorer Jefferson.

Take a look at the stats, Jefferson is having his worst career scoring-wise since the started playing starter’s minutes. He’s shooting less than he ever has as a starter, and while his FG% and three-point percentage is okay, his free throw shooting is abysmal.

Simply put, he hasn’t become the offensive playmaker the Spurs wanted and needed him to be. He’s only cracked 20 points four times, and scored in the single digits eight times.

With Manu Ginobili battling ankle injuries, Tim Duncan having lost a step or two, Jefferson was supposed to be the stopgap to keep the Spurs’ window open another season or two.

Tim Duncan has been playing great this year, and could be a legit MVP candidate if the Spurs were to claim a top-four seed in the West. Matt Bonner, yes Matt Bonner, has been having a career year, giving the Spurs value from what was supposed to have been a guy to eat up minutes in the frontcourt.

Even DeJuan Blair, in limited minutes, is showing enough to make almost every team sorry they passed on him. But the Spurs are still struggling.

Against the Suns the other night, Jefferson was riding the pine during crunch time, as Roger Mason Jr. took his spot on the floor. I’m a big Roger Mason fan, and I think he should be on the floor at crunch time fi you’re down, but the fact that this journeyman role player was given the minutes over the Spurs biggest trade acquisition in recent memory?

Not a good sign.

Now, there is still hope for the Spurs. After all, there’s a reason that Jefferson is a career 17 PPG scorer. The fact that he’s still young (29), and is four points off that average is troubling, but a regression to the mean is possible. In his case, it wouldn’t be a regression, more of a progression.

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Hmmm, it couldn't be b/c he is playing on a team w/ Duncan, Parker and Manu on the team and learning a brand new system, could it? This article fails!:bang

The writer:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images...jpg?1259877968

In his own words:

The teams I hate are numerous, and they grow with each passing season. A few of the more obvious include the New York Yankees, Miami Hurricanes, San Antonio Spurs and the Dallas Cowboys.

http://bleacherreport.com/users/15042-alex-mcveigh

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Originally Posted by [email protected]

Hmmm, it couldn't be b/c he is playing on a team w/ Duncan, Parker and Manu on the team and learning a brand new system, could it? This article fails!:bang

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That would be true if he was mentally retarded. But, after 25 games into the season, and he still has no clue on offense or defense, its no longer the system.

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Originally Posted by Mel_13

The writer:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images...jpg?1259877968

In his own words:

The teams I hate are numerous, and they grow with each passing season. A few of the more obvious include the New York Yankees, Miami Hurricanes, San Antonio Spurs and the Dallas Cowboys.

http://bleacherreport.com/users/15042-alex-mcveigh

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Some more from his bio:

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My favorite teams are the Dallas Mavericks, Boston Red Sox, New York Giants and Virginia Tech Hokies. I consider myself a modern fan, in that geography doesn't dictate my teams. My teams have been pretty fortunate of late, but I was also there through the Danny Kannell and Tim Naehring days, so please don't think I'm a fair-weather fan.

I also try to foot for my hometown teams the Nationals, Capitals and Wizards, but not if they play the above teams.

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:lmao

LMAO that fag probably post in spurstalk as mono or stretch

My favorite teams are the Dallas Mavericks, Boston Red Sox, New York Giants and Virginia Tech Hokies. I consider myself a modern fan, in that geography doesn't dictate my teams. My teams have been pretty fortunate of late, but I was also there through the Danny Kannell and Tim Naehring days, so please don't think I'm a fair-weather fan.

I also try to foot for my hometown teams the Nationals, Capitals and Wizards, but not if they play the above teams.

Last time I checked that was called a BANDWAGONER aka whoever is winning at that specific time is my team.

Horrible article. RJ not producing the way we all hoped he would couldn't have anything to do with the fact that until lately, there were never any plays run for him ever, or could it?

Also, taking opponents' PPG as an indicator for defensive performance is retarded as it doesn't factor in the different pace of different teams. :wakeup

Spurs waited too late to decide to spend, should have done this after the 2007 Championship. After what happened in 2006 that should have been the year of the push. Like the guys we have but will probably take a major trade signing or next season to be a contender, unless this team pulls a 1999

As much as we all hate to say it becuase it shows you the truth NUmbers dont lie.. They tell you the truth plain and simple.. While on paper SPURS seem to be one of the most talent put together rosters in the league. I think we are putting to much on Jeffersons shoulders this early, while Yes i have seen him make some bonehead desicion making thus far with turnovers i cant really say is all his fault to be honest i am witnessing the SPURS have thier interior defense broken down. The oposition getting to the lanes at will and see no help defense or shot blocking presetn and duncan cannot be everywhere all the time.. McDyess is largely to blame cuase he plays soft down low and has never been a shot blocker, he's been throughout his career a solid bigman due to his offsenive ability..

Second i want to point out that Tony Parker is a concern of mine, the guy flat out cannot play "D".. Defense is not taught in Europe i guess cause i see it as a trend over there.. TP also Passing ability all goes a far as to say he is the 3rd best passer on the team and doesnt have the know how to get others envolved in the offense and that is not good as all... Lastly the guy hurts you in transition casue on fasts breaks he cannot shot the three and teams now that, and they will lag off him and gather into the paint.. Not saying he cant shoot but pull up jumps shots on fast breaks are non existent. He has to wait till everyone gets down and sets up the offense by that time 12-15 seconds have run off the clock and now they need to rush a shot.....

i watched the game last night and the game against the suns and both of these teams seem to score with easy setup the offense and move the ball around no problems Spurs on the other hand look like its a struggle to score and must work hard to get easy baskets....

Changes need to be made just not sure what...

Being objective as possible, that's a pretty weak article. I mean, "take a look at the stats", or merely pointing out conference standings and defense-related stats, is just a cop out for critics who aren't watching every minute of every game. "Looking from afar", yeah I guess the Spurs have had a disappointing start, but looking from afar you can't see the team beginning to gel with, finally, a fully healthy team. Jefferson is settling into the offense little by little, regardless of the competition. .533 FG% and 8/13 FT's in the last five games, at least 1 offensive board in four of those, that's not bad at all, it's showing progression imo. Let's not forget the season is a marathon, not a sprint - 59 more games of basketball to watch. We've heard Tony remark about how essentially there's been "nobody" who can do what RJ does at SF the past decade or so... it was exaggeration, but still telling.

I'd rather the Spurs try to integrate a player like Jefferson into the system and struggle at first, than integrate just a role player like Mason/Udoka/Bogans and have a relatively successful beginning. Public perception is whatever, especially this early. Seeing Jefferson throw down multiple reverse dunks, and not only that - key members of the Spurs embracing him for it (giving him props), that's a good sign if you ask me. Same with putting in effort on defense and rebounding, which I think people are underrating (dude has blocked as many shots as Bonner in 23 games, most of them requiring a certain amount of athleticism). He hasn't shown "stopper" potential, but hasn't been a flop either. I don't think his defense is that much worse than Carter's, or say Maggette's, would have been on the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by DesignatedT

Jefferson has clearly been a pretty big disappointment so far this season, and i hate the "its early" argument just as much as the next guy, but the fact is, its still too early to write him off just yet.

if things still look this disorganized come all-star break, then i think we have some serious issues.

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There's no way the spurs don't pull the trigger on something before the trade deadline is he's still lingering

It's early

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Originally Posted by murpjf88

I was against this trade from day 1. This guy is NOT an impact player. He will never be an impact player for the spurs. I think reality is finally starting to sink in.

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You say that you were against this trade every day... Beat a dead horse already... Would you rather have Fab, Kurt & Bowen back.. riding pine and looking older than the team looks now? RJ's #'s are off yes.... but anyone's would be coming into SA's system... At least he is having some good games... Dice has been worthless... But a bigger problem than Jefferson is Parker. Parker's #'s are way off and he knows the system. He is off 6 pts from his average last yr, is off by 1 assist (5.9 comapred to 6.9 last yr) and his turnovers have doubled (3.5) since last year... All while playing the worst defense he has ever played... Gino has been horrible this yr as well... Gino and Tony combined for 9 turnovers last night against GS. Talk all the smack you want about RJ but like it or not he is the reason why SA has won some games this year.... I don't think Fab, Kurt and Bowen, at this point in their careers, could say the same..

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Originally Posted by DaBears

As much as we all hate to say it becuase it shows you the truth NUmbers dont lie.. They tell you the truth plain and simple.. While on paper SPURS seem to be one of the most talent put together rosters in the league. I think we are putting to much on Jeffersons shoulders this early, while Yes i have seen him make some bonehead desicion making thus far with turnovers i cant really say is all his fault to be honest i am witnessing the SPURS have thier interior defense broken down. The oposition getting to the lanes at will and see no help defense or shot blocking presetn and duncan cannot be everywhere all the time.. McDyess is largely to blame cuase he plays soft down low and has never been a shot blocker, he's been throughout his career a solid bigman due to his offsenive ability..

Second i want to point out that Tony Parker is a concern of mine, the guy flat out cannot play "D".. Defense is not taught in Europe i guess cause i see it as a trend over there.. TP also Passing ability all goes a far as to say he is the 3rd best passer on the team and doesnt have the know how to get others envolved in the offense and that is not good as all... Lastly the guy hurts you in transition casue on fasts breaks he cannot shot the three and teams now that, and they will lag off him and gather into the paint.. Not saying he cant shoot but pull up jumps shots on fast breaks are non existent. He has to wait till everyone gets down and sets up the offense by that time 12-15 seconds have run off the clock and now they need to rush a shot.....

i watched the game last night and the game against the suns and both of these teams seem to score with easy setup the offense and move the ball around no problems Spurs on the other hand look like its a struggle to score and must work hard to get easy baskets....

Changes need to be made just not sure what...

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Phx scored easy but GS? They shot 42.5% and were held to 91 pts (15 below their average)... And this was done by a defense of SA playing on a b2b. Are you really going to complain about that? I totally understand your complaints about PHX but GS not so much... And the changes that need to be made are either play Ratliff/Mahinmi or bring another player in to protect the paint... because Dice, Bonner and Blair aint gona cut it... I can't see Mahinmi being much worse than Dice... Dice has missed a ton of rotations and is playing mega soft...

Pretty amateur article, even if the content is correct.

Even if Jefferson was shooting lights out and scoring 20 a game, I dont think they would have enough to seriously compete with the Lakers :(.

I am not so much reffering to the shooting percentages by opponents which "dont get me wrong is a concern" buta bigger concern is the points in the paint to me that is a big whole that needs to be addressed..

Another key indicator is that spurs correct me if im wrong but are among the bottom of the list when it comes to forcing turnovers.. Well all know Parker cannot play "D" to save his life...

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Originally Posted by Ibanezsr

You say that you were against this trade every day... Beat a dead horse already... Would you rather have Fab, Kurt & Bowen back.. riding pine and looking older than the team looks now? RJ's #'s are off yes.... but anyone's would be coming into SA's system... At least he is having some good games... Dice has been worthless... But a bigger problem than Jefferson is Parker. Parker's #'s are way off and he knows the system. He is off 6 pts from his average last yr, is off by 1 assist (5.9 comapred to 6.9 last yr) and his turnovers have doubled (3.5) since last year... All while playing the worst defense he has ever played... Gino has been horrible this yr as well... Gino and Tony combined for 9 turnovers last night against GS. Talk all the smack you want about RJ but like it or not he is the reason why SA has won some games this year.... I don't think Fab, Kurt and Bowen, at this point in their careers, could say the same..

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Your right, I can't defend manu's and TP's play. I, however, seriously regret making the tradfe for RJ. The spurs would have no worse of a record than they do right now. Fab, Kurt and bruce new the system and played well in the system. Kurt, for his age played very well. His numbers were better than what Antonio is putting up this year. Fab was great at cutting to the basket and his passing ability was beyond reproach. As far as bowen, I miss him more with each passing game. His skills may have diminished, but he could still defend and hit the corner three.

The spurs would have been better holding off on a trade until mid season when the could of probably made a play on bosh or a player of his caliber. If nothing materialized, they could of made a move for a wade or bosh caliber player in the offseason. A move that seemed realistic figuring Manu coming off the books.

Instead, their stuck with a huge immovable contract that will decrease the liklihood of the spurs making any major moves at the trade deadline.

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Originally Posted by Mel_13

The writer:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images...jpg?1259877968

In his own words:

The teams I hate are numerous, and they grow with each passing season. A few of the more obvious include the New York Yankees, Miami Hurricanes, San Antonio Spurs and the Dallas Cowboys.

http://bleacherreport.com/users/15042-alex-mcveigh

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So he hates the Cowboys but he's wearing a sweater of them? :lol

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Originally Posted by lakaluva

He said everything you guys said during game day threads, only a lot more polite.

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^^^^^^^^^

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Originally Posted by murpjf88

Your right, I can't defend manu's and TP's play. I, however, seriously regret making the tradfe for RJ. The spurs would have no worse of a record than they do right now. Fab, Kurt and bruce new the system and played well in the system. Kurt, for his age played very well. His numbers were better than what Antonio is putting up this year. Fab was great at cutting to the basket and his passing ability was beyond reproach. As far as bowen, I miss him more with each passing game. His skills may have diminished, but he could still defend and hit the corner three.

The spurs would have been better holding off on a trade until mid season when the could of probably made a play on bosh or a player of his caliber. If nothing materialized, they could of made a move for a wade or bosh caliber player in the offseason. A move that seemed realistic figuring Manu coming off the books.

Instead, their stuck with a huge immovable contract that will decrease the liklihood of the spurs making any major moves at the trade deadline.

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Thomas is doing nothing as a Buck and only managed to get 17 minutes a game last year... and now he is a yr older. Same for Oberto... he was logging 14 minutes a game... And if those 2 were still around with Bonner than you would never see DeJuan Blair play... and who knows if they would have even drafted him... Bowen wasnt even playing 20 minutes a game last yr... and was in Pop's doghouse... There is a reason why he retired... He should have retired after 2008. You could tell he def. lost a step last yr... And if he was playing that would take time away from George Hill... Jefferson averages more than all 3 of those guys combined in their last year with SA... And he is durable.. I am not the biggest Jefferson fan either but I cringed everytime I saw KT, Oberto and Bowen come in the game last yr...

It's all RJ's fault, not the 15+ turnovers per game (that have a habit of turning into fast break points at the most unfortunate times). RJ is a shy and tentative when we play good teams, and more pro-active when we play .500 and under teams.

But, he's got greatness in him. Let's give him until the end of the month before we call for a sports therapists or trades? :wakeup

I didn't know teams sank or swam in December. Unless you're the Nets.

rj ain't sinking the spurs

Epic logic fail.

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Originally Posted by spurtech09

rj ain't sinking the spurs

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he doesn't help matters either.

Very poor article, especially the part about being a blackhole on offense LOL..the writer is also fucking ugly, which takes some credibility away from him in my book..

Jefferson has disappointed, especially against better teams..his D has been disappointing for the most part as well..however, he wouldn't be the #1 reason this team has underachieved so far..

Jefferson was brought in to be a #4 option, sometimes #3..it's difficult for others to do their jobs when Tony Parker has played like he has so far, especially since he's the PG..it hurts the entire team..

RJ needs to step his game up, but it starts with Tony..we aren't going anywhere without him playing at a high level, and that's the main thing that is "sinking" the Spurs..

RJ isnt carrying his weight plain and simple. I dont necessarily think we should give up on the guy yet but lets also not make excuses for him. He isnt living up to what was expected of him...him underperforming has been a big reason for our slow start.

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Originally Posted by FkLA

RJ isnt carrying his weight plain and simple. I dont necessarily think we should give up on the guy yet but lets also not make excuses for him. He isnt living up to what was expected of him...him underperforming has been a big reason for our slow start.

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+1
I really believe part of it is the spurs system, it's rigid and uncomfortable for a guy like RJ. The turnovers IMO could be due to a lack of called plays, they are just winging it out there and it shows, even TP and TD have miscues. Either way RJ needs to step it up and he knows it.

I'd say Ariza for RJ but there's nothing I can think of to make the salaries match up.

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Originally Posted by Indazone

I'd say Ariza for RJ but there's nothing I can think of to make the salaries match up.

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The Spurs would like to take Battier off your hands too. :hat

I say we wait another 20 games before considering the worst case scenario.

The Jefferson I saw in the latest game was dynamite, raining down thunderous dunks from every angle & knocking down jumpers. Granted, it was the warriors, but we haven't had a guy like that since Sean Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_. I got a feeling once everything starts clicking, we're going to see alot more 20+ pt outbursts from him.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Jefferson has disappointed, especially against better teams..his D has been disappointing for the most part as well..however, he wouldn't be the #1 reason this team has underachieved so far..

Jefferson was brought in to be a #4 option, sometimes #3..it's difficult for others to do their jobs when Tony Parker has played like he has so far, especially since he's the PG..it hurts the entire team..

RJ needs to step his game up, but it starts with Tony..we aren't going anywhere without him playing at a high level, and that's the main thing that is "sinking" the Spurs..

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Completely agree. Tony's dropoff from last year is much more concerning than what RJ is or isn't bringing to the table. I have little doubt that RJ will start clicking on offense when (if) Tony and Manu start playing well.

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Originally Posted by Indazone

I'd say Ariza for RJ but there's nothing I can think of to make the salaries match up.

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This would have been an ideal trade for the Spurs and the Rockets.

Ariza spotting up for 3's and playing yeoman's defense is what the Spurs need. The better Tony plays, the worse RJ gets. The better RJ gets, the worse Tony will get.

RJ attacking the rim would have best worked with a shooting PG like Brooks.

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Originally Posted by Allanon

This would have been an ideal trade for the Spurs and the Rockets.

Ariza spotting up for 3's and playing yeoman's defense is what the Spurs need.

RJ attacking the rim would have best worked with a shooting PG like Brooks.

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Isn't Parker a shooting PG? Maybe you should clarify exactly what that means Allanon.

^ that gay Lakers sig pic is hilarious :lol

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Originally Posted by TJastal

Isn't Parker a shooting PG? Maybe you should clarify exactly what that means Allanon.

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I think of Tony Parker as a scoring point guard but not a shooter...just like RJ.

Brooks is a shooter type point guard (ie. 3 pointers, mid-range)...just like Ariza.

So you have Ariza forced to play like RJ on the Rockets (creating off the dribble) and RJ forced to play like Ariza on the Spurs (spot up shooter).

Swap the two of them and Tony gets his shooter in Ariza and Brooks gets his scorer in RJ.

RJ is very talented. It's just going to be a matter of him fitting in on the Spurs. 13PPG is fine if he's contributing in other areas. He just hasn't found his spot yet. People say it takes a year to fit into Pop's system sometimes. That logic probably doesn't change just because someone is an all-star caliber talent.

RJ is starting to fit in nicely. TP is still having a hard time adjusting to the offensive team role. Now the radical idea. Move Manu and G Hill to the starting lineup and bring TP off the bench. This is the ideal spot for TP if Pop can not make him pass the ball or make him pass the ball, better. At least he won't be getting torched by other team's PG right out the gate and he can shoot to his heart's content.