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Kevin Garnett is one of the 10 greatest power forwards of all time. If he and Timmy switched places, he'd probably have two or three rings with the Spurs (99 and 2007 for sure, maybe 2003, probably not 2005) and Duncan wouldn't have one until he joined the Celtics. I think TD has been the better player but it's not by much.Quote:
Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY
Manu brings so much more to the team with his intagibles than VC ever could. I have really enjoyed watching VC play at times but when things aren't going his way he tends to fade and lack effort. Manu on the other hand just plays balls to the wall all the time. Yeah, at times he makes some bonehead plays but then turns around and makes one of the most brilliant ones of the night. Case in point - Thunder game - 0-10 from the field and he makes a pass to Dice, who's not looking, and then jumps out of bounds to saves the ball to Hill and RJ makes the game winning J. Didn't score a point but made a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY
I'll always remember VC's comments about his time in Toronto. That was a disgrace IMHO. He tanked it to get out of Toronto! He could have been honest and let his option run out and signed with another team as a UFA but he didn't. He tanked it and forced Toronto to trade him. Yeah that's a quality player you want on your team.
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Originally Posted by NFGIII
If manu hit some of those shots that game is not even close and his out of bounds pass was on a ball he lost.
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Originally Posted by DAF86
Do not throw out championships and claim that is why one player is better than another. Carter has the better overall career nba stats, which measure individual performance. Championships are team accomplishments and has much to do with who is on your team.
It was a bad game for him make no mistake about it, but he still stayed with his head on the game and made plays to help the team win at the end, I think that's the point NFGIII was trying to make and no the ball was not out of bounds. Are you a troll or something like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
You said Carter had a better NBA career because he has better stats and more all-star appearences and I disagree with that comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
I don't know about you but I would rather be an important piece of a champioship team than a stat padder for a crappy one.
If Manu and Carter switch places, Carter would have probably had the rings (I want to think that he's not that big of a cancer to offset Duncan's greatness) but Manu would have definitely had the stats while (I'm sure of this) somehow also making the team he played for a winning team.
I disagree with your claim that Carter has better overall career NBA stats. If you look at PER36 stats for both players, you will find rebounding and assist numbers to be very close. Manu gets about 1 more steal per 36 but also turns the ball over more. The area where they diverge quite a bit is on points. Manu averages 19.0 per 36 and Carter averages 22.4. However, look at FGA per 36. Manu takes 13.5 and Carter takes 18.3. Vince scores 3.4 more points on 4.8 more shots. The difference between Manu and Vince from an efficiency standpoint is that Manu does not take as many dumb shots (though Vince is not a chucker like SJax or AI). Manu has always had the option of passing to TD if he doesn't have a clear shot. Vince has never played on a team with a better scorer than himself (JKidd was a better player but not a scorer) so he was probably forced more often to take bad shots. How much of that is the player and how much is the team is tough to say. Manu has a disadvantage in that he's never been able to play much more than 30 MPG.Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
Couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by JR3
I love SJax, but he's been gone to long.
I'n good with RJ and love his skill level, but he obviously needs more scoing opportunities that he's getting with the Spurs. Also needs to play with a pass-first PG.
Ariza IS the choice here. In fact, he was my choice all along, over the summer for the MLE. He's younger, cheaper, and would integrate better because he doesn't always need the ball. He had the same role with the Fakers last year. He's already a good defender and would be even better with Pop's coaching. He's got a more expanded role with the Rockets, but hes not flourishing at all.
Disagree. Manu was not the type of player that can make an NBA team a winning team by himself. You are overrating him. He cannot even log starter minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
What is PER36? I don't extrapolate stats because that leads to inacuracy in the numbers because players play is not linear, it can vary as minutes go up for a number of reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by androck
Playing bigger minutes also puts Carter ahead and has to play into the equation of who is better. You want your top players to be able to be on the court. It is not a positive making the claim that one player is better but he doesn't play the minutes that the true stars log.
If you cannot log the minutes because you wear down, thats not a plus.
captain jack for me, he's turning around the bobcats
It's gotta depend on what else the roster has. For the Spurs, I would say S-Jax or Artest.
i'll throw in battier so that the perimeter guys don't have to worry about defending that hard themselves
but yeah, RJ/JAX/ARI in no particular order.
I was going to say Caron Butler, but I heard someone saying availability is a factor? If it is a factor then I think RJ or SJax would have been the best. Ron Artest would also have been interesting.
So, where is this promised answer from timvp?Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
I don't see how anyone can justify the RJ trade now. He's a gutless coward that doesn't belong in a Spurs uniform. Any of the above players would be a better fit than him.
Spurs fans always have misplaced hatred.
1) SJax
2) Ariza
3) VC
4) Artest
5) Dick
6) Matrix
RJ > Artest. No doubt.
RJ + Dice > VC or Ariza or Jax
Can't believe there are 57 people that would have picked Jefferson over Jackson.