Small ball = LOSS

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Originally Posted by poop

i gotta say, Chumper Dump is maybe the most smug ass douchebag on this site, and is a complete moron as well.

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I dunno, I like the guy

Chalk it down with another loss, with SMALL ball play. Pop is fucking stupid, I swear

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Originally Posted by Yogurt210

Chalk it down with another loss, with SMALL ball play. Pop is fucking stupid, I swear

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Blair 5 fouls.
Ian 4 fouls.

Haislip was crap. May more Theo, but...meh. Dice, injured.

Who pray tell were they going to run out for big ball when the bigs can't stay out of foul trouble? The only player you could argue was Theo.

They're not losing because of small ball. They're losing because Parker was a dumb fuck and played NT ball this summer and is now broken. They miss those easy points he used to get in the paint, in addition to drawing the defense for easy 3 point shots.

2-8 shooting, 4 pts, 3 assts, 30 minutes.

Congratulations, Tony. You're now about the 5th best guard on the team. Viva le France.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

An interesting stat is the evolution of the minutes percentage played by Spurs with a small ball lineup (1 big and 4 small) during the past few years:

04-05: 8.1%
05-06: 9.6%
06-07: 13.7%
07-08: 27.4%
08-09: 21.7%
09-10: 24.6%

That's a quite significant raise. Spurs are now a team that plays about a quarter per game with a small ball lineup.

Pop has simply changed his philosophy regarding playing small.
In the past, it was a last resort option. A player was destroying our bigmen and Spurs had to go small.
Now, It's a common solution. As soon as Pop saw a bigman with some mobility (like a fat Diaw), he goes small. Pop seems fine with playing small.

I'm not against Spurs playing small in some specific cases but a quarter per game is way too much. To me, it's a sign of a ill Spurs' team.

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That's a depressing and telling stat.

Aside from what most people would say (Pop's an idiot! Boo!) I wonder what the philosophy behind the move could be?

1. The Spurs believe that modern defensive rules lend to having a small ball lineup
2. Market costs and availability. There just aren't that many bigs out there to have.

Or

3. They have tried to find bigs, but keep striking out (overall). Drafted: Ian Mahinmi, Tiago Splitter, Dejuan Blair (lucky pick yes...but they did) Signed/Traded: Kurt Thomas, Theo Ratliff, Jacky Butler, Dice.

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Originally Posted by init2winit

It's a shame that after a back to back game and then another they are mentally exhausted. I'd hate to see this team in a 7 game playoff series or any real type of obstacle in their way.

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I've always wondered if Popovich's inconsistent rotation pattern and the limited minutes he gives to players is actually a detriment to their conditioning. It seems instead of being refreshed from limited minutes the players have just gotten lazier. How are they supposed to be prepared for a hard playoff push when they can't even sustain energy from one game to the next?

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Originally Posted by L.I.T

3. They have tried to find bigs, but keep striking out (overall). Drafted: Ian Mahinmi, Tiago Splitter, Dejuan Blair (lucky pick yes...but they did) Signed/Traded: Kurt Thomas, Theo Ratliff, Jacky Butler, Dice.

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I remember more than few posters on spurstalk dismissing Marc Gasol when someone suggested drafting him. I think one poster described him as lazy and too slow for the NBA. Seeing how Splitter fucked us over by passing on the NBA it probably would have been a good idea to take a chance on Gasol(it's not like Marcus Williams panned out anyway).

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Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k

I've always wondered if Popovich's inconsistent rotation pattern and the limited minutes he gives to players is actually a detriment to their conditioning. It seems instead of being refreshed from limited minutes the players have just gotten lazier. How are they supposed to be prepared for a hard playoff push when they can't even sustain energy from one game to the next?

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I know it's probably a longshot but maybe the afternoon practices are having an effect?

If the Spurs had drafted Marc Gasol he'd be sitting on the bench while a lineup of four guards and Timmy put up 30 three pointers a game.

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Originally Posted by Johnny RIngo

I remember more than few posters on spurstalk dismissing Marc Gasol when someone suggested drafting him. I think one poster described him as lazy and too slow for the NBA. Seeing how Splitter fucked us over by passing on the NBA it probably would have been a good idea to take a chance on Gasol(it's not like Marcus Williams panned out anyway).

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I agree.

Back then I was actually thought he would have been a decent draftee; if only on the basis of his genes. But, I do remember that the consensus (even among other scouts) was he was never going to be a strong rotational play and that there were serious doubts about if he had NBA-level athleticism. Part of the outcry over the Gasol for Gasol trade was that, at that time, everyone thought Marc was never going to be even a mid-tier center.

Hindsight is, as always, 20/20. But, on this count, I can't really fault the Spurs FO...other than drafting Marcus Williams.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

If the Spurs had drafted Marc Gasol he'd be sitting on the bench while a lineup of four guards and Timmy put up 30 three pointers a game.

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Actually, he'd be assigned to Austin about now or tearing up the Italian league.

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Originally Posted by Johnny RIngo

I remember more than few posters on spurstalk dismissing Marc Gasol when someone suggested drafting him. I think one poster described him as lazy and too slow for the NBA. Seeing how Splitter fucked us over by passing on the NBA it probably would have been a good idea to take a chance on Gasol(it's not like Marcus Williams panned out anyway).

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No, it wouldn't have been a good idea, at least not a better idea without knowing how Splitter plays in the NBA.

Because Marc Gasol is on a 3-year, $10 million dollar deal.

Just like Splitter, Gasol would have been limited to a rookie deal worth about what, $1 million a year?

He would have sat out 3 years just like Splitter.

I'm surprised he's turned out this way, yes, but the salary restrictions for a late first rounder would still have ruined things.

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Originally Posted by objective

No, it wouldn't have been a good idea, at least not a better idea without knowing how Splitter plays in the NBA.

Because Marc Gasol is on a 3-year, $10 million dollar deal.

Just like Splitter, Gasol would have been limited to a rookie deal worth about what, $1 million a year?

He would have sat out 3 years just like Splitter.

I'm surprised he's turned out this way, yes, but the salary restrictions for a late first rounder would still have ruined things.

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Marc Gasol was drafted in the second round (48th overall), which I think means he wouldn't have been limited to the late 1st round scale, since the second round doesn't have a salary scale.

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Originally Posted by L.I.T

Marc Gasol was drafted in the second round (48th overall), which I think means he wouldn't have been limited to the late 1st round scale, since the second round doesn't have a salary scale.

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My bad.

I missed the part about Marcus Williams, I thought he meant in lieu of Splitter.

Still, Spurs wouldn't give Scola 3 years/10 million. Hard to believe them giving it to Gasol.

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Originally Posted by L.I.T

That's a depressing and telling stat.

Aside from what most people would say (Pop's an idiot! Boo!) I wonder what the philosophy behind the move could be?

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IMO, one of the reason why Spurs are now more going smaller is that they have less worst small ball PF with Udoka in 2008-2009 and Jefferson in 2010. The small ball option looks less worst than in the past.

Spurs also often face players that are quickers than their bigmen because they have really struggle to find players who have both size and mobility. When everybody is healthy, the quickest PF/C on the active roster is Matt Bonner. I'm not sure if I should be :lol or :cry to put Bonner and quick in the same sentence.

Actually, the quickest PF/C is Haislip. There was a missed shot of his from the corner last night, and MEM got the rebound. I was watching the flow of transition, and he basically outran EVERYONE, guards included, to get to the other end for a contest. He's got that easy speed in transition like DRob or Rodman, where they don't look like they're going all out, but they just go past people with ease. F Mahinmi. Haislip is the one that needs the burn.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Actually, the quickest PF/C is Haislip. There was a missed shot of his from the corner last night, and MEM got the rebound. I was watching the flow of transition, and he basically outran EVERYONE, guards included, to get to the other end for a contest. He's got that easy speed in transition like DRob or Rodman, where they don't look like they're going all out, but they just go past people with ease. F Mahinmi. Haislip is the one that needs the burn.

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That's what I've said "quickest on the active roster".
Both Haislip and Mahinmi are quick great athletes.

no more small ball pop....plzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Originally Posted by Bruno

IMO, one of the reason why Spurs are now more going smaller is that they have less worst small ball PF with Udoka in 2008-2009 and Jefferson in 2010. The small ball option looks less worst than in the past.

Spurs also often face players that are quickers than their bigmen because they have really struggle to find players who have both size and mobility. When everybody is healthy, the quickest PF/C on the active roster is Matt Bonner. I'm not sure if I should be :lol or :cry to put Bonner and quick in the same sentence.

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Sad face. Definitely sad face. And that's probably the first and last time Bonner and quick will ever be that close together...unless there's a "not" between them.

What's strange is that it seemed early in Pop's career he was channeling Larry Brown with the tough nosed defensive teams...as he's gotten older it seems he's started to channel Don Nelson. Scary.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

That's what I've said "quickest on the active roster".
Both Haislip and Mahinmi are quick great athletes.

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Going back to the point of quicker bigger players, aside from Elson, I really can't remember a 'quick' "big" the Spurs have targeted in free agency or via trade since Robinson retired. Rasho/Kurt Thomas/Dice at the various points in their careers when they came to the Spurs were not.

I'm actually starting to come around to exstatic's idea of giving Haislip some more small ball minutes at PF. Start him out on 5 minutes and increase if he shows anything approximating a team game. He's supposed to have range, hops and athleticism...why not see if he can perform outside of garbage time?

One thought on small ball:

http://i.imgur.com/Uyy8C.jpg