Why Does Jefferson Suck?

Problem is Jefferson has never been a very good perimeter spot up shooter. He needs to play in a more unstructured offense where fast break opportunities are not turned away for structured plays.

Pop should lock Richard Jefferson in an electrical closet.

I don't fully blame RJ. This team has a problem and you cannot expect a guy like RJ to come in and fix it. RJ is just following the leader. When TP and Manu and others are struggling, it is hard for a personality like RJ to come in and light the proverbial "fire".

He could certainly do more, however.

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Originally Posted by Basileus777

RJ simply isn't the player that he was when he was younger. He can't rebound, play defense, or work off the ball like he used too. Getting older and playing on New Jersey and Milwaukee teams where he was used a ball handler and scorer has changed his game. There's a reason his past two teams dumped him for expiring contracts. On a bad or mediocre team RJ can still be a decent player, but his current playing style doesn't suit a contender.

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What's good Basileus?..



I'm off the RJ bandwagon after tonight, that was too disappointing..everybody else has already covered the rest..

I will say that it doesn't help that the Spurs are 26th in the NBA in fastbreak points and don't play to his style..you can blame whoever you want for that, but Jefferson has been the same player for 2 seasons before this one..the Spurs have a front office that is supposed to study the players they're going to acquire before the move is made..Jefferson hasn't declined from the past 2 years, he's the same guy..part of the reason he has disappointed is on him for his lack of intensity and fire, but the other part of the blame clearly goes to the FO..

Orlando got Vince Carter for example..Vince has disappointed, but for a different reason..he has disappointed because he's shooting horribly, but he's playing the same style as he always has(when it comes to shooting..they haven't used him as a playmaker though, so that part is different)..in Orlando, you can mostly blame Carter for his struggles and you can put a little blame on SVG..

RJ is disappointing for a different reason..he's the same player that he was for 2 years, he just doesn't fit here..so in SA, the blame goes on the front office more than anybody..

I also agree with DPG's point..

Jefferson is a COMPLIMENTARY piece..he's a 4th option here..generally, the #4 guy isn't responsible for the energy and intensity of a team..he's not a guy you should consistently rely on..I haven't looked at the #s, but I bet he plays a lot better when Parker and Ginobili play better..

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

People need to stop blaming other Spurs for why RJ isn't stepping up. He gets plenty of touches, but doesn't do enough with them. He plays soft, hesitant and doesn't move enough on offense. And even if he doesn't get touches through some stretches, he needs to contribute on the glass and defensively.

In the beginning of the season, you could blame it on the other players not being used to him. But at some point, he needs to start doing something when he gets the ball, and cutting so that he is in better position to get the ball.

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That's the ticket Kori. Maybe they will at least listen to you.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

What's good Basileus?..



I'm off the RJ bandwagon after tonight, that was too disappointing..everybody else has already covered the rest..

I will say that it doesn't help that the Spurs are 26th in the NBA in fastbreak points and don't play to his style..you can blame whoever you want for that, but Jefferson has been the same player for 2 seasons before this one..the Spurs have a front office that is supposed to study the players they're going to acquire before the move is made..Jefferson hasn't declined from the past 2 years, he's the same guy..part of the reason he has disappointed is on him for his lack of intensity and fire, but the other part of the blame clearly goes to the FO..

Orlando got Vince Carter for example..Vince has disappointed, but for a different reason..he has disappointed because he's shooting horribly, but he's playing the same style as he always has..in Orlando, you can mostly blame Carter for his struggles and you can put a little blame on SVG..

RJ is disappointing for a different reason..he's the same player that he was for 2 years, he just doesn't fit here..so in SA, the blame goes on the front office more than anybody..

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This is a really solid take, and it's just incredibly unfortunate if you're a Spurs fan.

The Spurs FO took a major gamble, probably the biggest of RCs career...and it's not panning out.

The worst part is that the FO likely closed the window on the possibility of making other improvements that would put them solidly in the Championship race for at least this year.

I still believe there is time for RJ to step up his individual game (even if it doesn't fit perfectly with the system) and/or for the Spurs FO to pull off some miracle trade.

But if RJ and the team continue to play like this, it's hard to see :lobt2: in their future.

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Originally Posted by murpjf88

Because he's not worth talking about.

RJ is not a clutch player. He's not going to make a team better unless the players around him are succeeding. This means when Tony, Manu, or TD struggle, RJ will be non existent.

RJ's jump shot has lost its lust. He is very poor perimeter shooter and almost never hits a contested jump shot.

His defense is terrible. Its almost like he doesn't care. It almost looks like laziness but its actually his lateral movement. He gets dominated against bigger and more athletic PF's.

RJ was brought in here to put us over the top. He's done anything but.

Against + .500 excluding Dallas, he is averaging 10.6 ppg on 33/104 = 32% from the field.
I don't think they need him in games against teams under .500.

He does a lot of standing around. When he gets the ball, instead of making an aggressive move to the basket, RJ passes the ball.

His freethrow shooting has tanked this season. Its at an all time low at 70%. That is when he gets to the line. He's averaging 3.5 free throws a game which is the lowest since his rookie year.

The bottomline is the spurs needed a player like stephen jackson and they got RJ instead. RJ is not the kind of impact player that is going to consistently deliver. RJ's 29, going on 33.

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Thanks for explaining yourself. IMO it was a bad trade. It's all on RJ, not on anyone else. RJ needs to step up. He can improve IMO. That's about the only point I don't agree with. He doesn't need Tim, Tony and Manu to be at their best for him to succeed, he just needs to actually give a fuck and STEP UP.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

What's good Basileus?..



I'm off the RJ bandwagon after tonight, that was too disappointing..everybody else has already covered the rest..

I will say that it doesn't help that the Spurs are 26th in the NBA in fastbreak points and don't play to his style..you can blame whoever you want for that, but Jefferson has been the same player for 2 seasons before this one..the Spurs have a front office that is supposed to study the players they're going to acquire before the move is made..Jefferson hasn't declined from the past 2 years, he's the same guy..part of the reason he has disappointed is on him for his lack of intensity and fire, but the other part of the blame clearly goes to the FO..

Orlando got Vince Carter for example..Vince has disappointed, but for a different reason..he has disappointed because he's shooting horribly, but he's playing the same style as he always has(when it comes to shooting..they haven't used him as a playmaker though, so that part is different)..in Orlando, you can mostly blame Carter for his struggles and you can put a little blame on SVG..

RJ is disappointing for a different reason..he's the same player that he was for 2 years, he just doesn't fit here..so in SA, the blame goes on the front office more than anybody..

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I once thought it was the FO and Pop fault for bringing him here. But, IMO, Pop and the FO truly believed that they were going to open the offense up, and get out on the fast break. RJ would have benefited big time, but things haven't worked out that way. The spurs haven't helped themselves with untimely TO's, which lead to fast breaks in the other direction.

The thing I hate about RJ is that he's soft and he is a quitter. If he's not scoring he takes himself out of the game. Does not play defense, does not rebounds. He is a loser. He does not have the desire or basketball IQ to be a Spur.

Last year Finley > This year RJ


The spurs should try to get rid of that contract. They should try trading RJ for Tmac, because at least he's a free agent after this season. Or you could try to trade him for Jamison, Butler or Iguadala, a real SF.

I agree he needs to come with it every game and he isn't. Like someone else was getting at it does seem at times like he doesn't give a shit. At least thats how his game is looking. He needs to find a way to make an impact in the game regardless if he is getting touches or not. You can't put it all on him though. How can you get the guy going offensively when the offense is spread around so much? He knows he's a 4th option and in turn he plays like it...

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Originally Posted by rascal

Problem is Jefferson has never been a very good perimeter spot up shooter.

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This is the problem right there...he's not a good shooter. Yet, where do you see Jefferson in the offense? Sitting at the 3 point line.

He's never been a good shooter and he can't slash because that's where Duncan and Tony are.

So it's either jack up a 3 pointer or go for a mid-range shot, neither of which he is comfortable at...so instead he hesitates.

Spurs should have taken Ariza, a great spot up shooter and defender at MLE price and let the Rockets take RJ who would have worked perfectly with a jump shooting Brooks.

Now both teams are stuck fitting square pegs into round holes.

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Originally Posted by Allanon

This is the problem right there...he's not a good shooter. Yet, where do you see Jefferson in the offense? Sitting at the 3 point line.

He's never been a good shooter and he can't slash because that's where Duncan and Tony are.

So it's either jack up a 3 pointer or go for a mid-range shot, neither of which he is good at...so instead he hesitates.

Spurs should have taken Ariza, a great spot up shooter and defender at MLE price and let the Rockets take RJ who would have worked perfectly with a jump shooting Brooks.

Now both teams are stuck fitting square pegs into round holes.

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Would've loved Ariza. Spurs are in dire need of a perimeter defender.

I never really cared too much for RJ's game. Just another great athlete who happens to play basketball. He lacks the all around skill set that the true all-star wings possess.

When the news broke of RJ's coming to SA, I was pretty much indifferent.

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Originally Posted by Allanon

This is the problem right there...he's not a good shooter. Yet, where do you see Jefferson in the offense? Sitting at the 3 point line.

He's never been a good shooter and he can't slash because that's where Duncan and Tony are.

So it's either jack up a 3 pointer or go for a mid-range shot, neither of which he is comfortable at...so instead he hesitates.

Spurs should have taken Ariza, a great spot up shooter and defender at MLE price and let the Rockets take RJ who would have worked perfectly with a jump shooting Brooks.

Now both teams are stuck fitting square pegs into round holes.

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To be honest when the Spurs lost to Dallas, the number one transaction I wanted them to do was sign Ariza. But it was desperate times in San Antonio so when the Spurs got RJ instead, I was happy as hell. But now looking back I hope the Spurs should have just tried to get Ariza. If he said no, then the Spurs could have snatched RJ. Ariza is actually a good defender and he actually plays like he wants to win. RJ is so damn unmotivated and his contract is killer.

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Originally Posted by Allanon

This is the problem right there...he's not a good shooter. Yet, where do you see Jefferson in the offense? Sitting at the 3 point line.

He's never been a good shooter and he can't slash because that's where Duncan and Tony are.

So it's either jack up a 3 pointer or go for a mid-range shot, neither of which he is comfortable at...so instead he hesitates.

Spurs should have taken Ariza, a great spot up shooter and defender at MLE price and let the Rockets take RJ who would have worked perfectly with a jump shooting Brooks.

Now both teams are stuck fitting square pegs into round holes.

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Or as Ricky once said in The Trailer Park Boys "you can't fit a square hole in a round peg" ;) lol

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Originally Posted by rascal

RJ needs to play in a more uptempo offense. The spurs are too much standing around the perimeter and this does not play into RJs game.

He is deadly on the break in the open court. The spurs need to forget about always having to get into a structured offense and have some fun looking for easy fastbreak points and run at times. This will open up Jeffersons game in all areas and the confidence will come back. Jefferson is good, the spurs style of play is not.

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The Spurs having been trying to get out on fastbreaks as much as I've ever seen them do so. The problem appears to be that the players just don't know how to break together.

Pop skips down the sideline waving his arms yelling "GO!GO!" and on the court a few players take off and end up crowded in the paint together dishing dangerous passes, and shooting contested shots.

It seems ubsurd to suggest an NBA team do fastbreak drills, but for the love of god San Antonio has the ugliest fastbreaks in the league. Even the ones that work like Manu's behind-the-back, or Hill's reverse layup vs LA were actually very poorly executed breaks.

You sign Ariza you have no money left over for another big, the big they needed in McDyess.

I agree he was never a good fit for a half court team like ours. The years in New Jersey he had a pass first pg and they would run and he would have those open slams. You put him with a team that likes to fast break the Knicks or the Suns and you would see a whole different player.

Getting him would be like the Suns trying to get Blair it doesn't and didn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by #2!

The Spurs having been trying to get out on fastbreaks as much as I've ever seen them do so. The problem appears to be that the players just don't know how to break together.

Pop skips down the sideline waving his arms yelling "GO!GO!" and on the court a few players take off and end up crowded in the paint together dishing dangerous passes, and shooting contested shots.

It seems ubsurd to suggest an NBA team do fastbreak drills, but for the love of god San Antonio has the ugliest fastbreaks in the league. Even the ones that work like Manu's behind-the-back, or Hill's reverse layup vs LA were actually very poorly executed breaks.

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Historically, the Spurs have not been a team that was on the fast break a lot, but they were a good fast break team. The fast break issues of today I believe are directly correlated to the injury to TP. He was always the primary guy in terms of leading fastbreaks, using his quickness in the open court to get good looks. With him hobbled who do we have leading those breaks? Hill is an athletic player and a great player in relation to his age and experience level; but a top-flight distributor he is not yet.

That and their defense is no longer the same, which limits their fast break opportunities. They were never a great defense at turning the ball over, but they were good at forcing bad shots, which could be turned into fast break opportunities.

You don't have the money for McDyess, but you still have the contracts you traded for RJ + the expiring contracts of Bonner and Finley and scrubs..that's like 15 mil $ in expirings..

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

You don't have the money for McDyess, but you still have the contracts you traded for RJ + the expiring contracts of Bonner and Finley and scrubs..that's like 15 mil $ in expirings..

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We might have even had a better record right now if we kept those players and added Ariza and then we could have traded them all for a big upgrade.

Hind sight is always 20/20. You can't do that lol. Would have loved to get Ariza too, but who knew there was going to be a fallout for Ariza with the Lakers. Isn't he a California native? Everything looked like he was gonna stay a Laker and get a nice pay raise. There is way too much risk hoping that small market San Antonio will be able to allure any players. I don't think we have a very good track record of alluring marquee players. We are hardly the #1 attraction around the NBA.

A crystal ball would have been nice. I still think we got more out of it then any of the alternatives. I just think the FO severely overpaid for it...

Useless and vitually untradable now @ 14 mil.

Milwaukee got us on this one. I'd take Kurt & Oberto back for him tomorrow.

The only value Jefferson would have is if Manu, Parker and Duncan all got injured and he could score 20ppg on a losing team, like Dominique in the 96-97' season.

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Originally Posted by EricB

You sign Ariza you have no money left over for another big, the big they needed in McDyess.

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not just that, but no contract for Blair. Without reserving part of the MLE, Blair would have been on a two-year deal min deal if I remember right.

Jefferson is a looser, I wrote this the minute I saw him play the first time.

Can't pass, can't shoot, can't play defense.Soft looser.

On top, he has a low IQ. Basketball wise... Except when he is negotiating contracts.

This is another Butler: they will have to give away a good player (Splitter??) just to get rid of the guy.

In the meantime, play haislip.