Harvey: A reason Ginobili will want to be back

A reason Ginobili will want to be back
Buck Harvey

The Spurs will want to re-sign the Manu Ginobili of Wednesday.

But that's not the issue.

Will Ginobili want to re-sign with the Spurs of Wednesday?

Maybe he would like to play with a team that can beat the Jazz at least once a season. Maybe he'd like to play with LeBron James, for example, and start over in a new city.

A story this week out of Argentina suggests starting over might appeal to Ginobili.

If he remains healthy, Ginobili will have options. But when it comes time to make a decision this summer, Ginobili will likely remember his past seven years in San Antonio, as well as Wednesday.

Then, he was allowed to play the way he likes to play.

Next summer is a lot of games away. That's why the Spurs chose to wait until then before offering a new contract to Ginobili. Another ankle or leg injury could stop him from being the Ginobili of Wednesday.

Everyone understood this was the status of the negotiations, and Ginobili confirmed this in an interview with an Argentine newspaper. When Ginobili also said he didn't see an extension coming, some thought this meant he was finished as a Spur.

He clarified that Wednesday. What he said “does not mean my days as a Spur are over.”

Still, Ginobili acted as if that were possible. He told the Argentine newspaper his relationship with the Spurs is different than what he once thought it was. He thought, because he had bled and sacrificed with the Spurs, he had something like he had with his Argentina national team.

“But this year, I realized that this is a business,” he said. “At the beginning, I was hurt, but now I understand how it works.”

Ginobili should have understood this when he signed his paycheck. Gregg Popovich preaches family, but the bottom line is unavoidable. It's about winning, and an injured Ginobili can't.

As for Ginobili's sense of loyalty, the Spurs can turn that around. When Ginobili chose to play in Beijing with a pre-existing injury, he had put the team at risk.

So there was likely some friction on both sides, and maybe this makes Ginobili look elsewhere. The Spurs can pay him more money than most others, but Ginobili has never been about that.

He wants to win, and Cleveland could be an option. This new city would come with an old coach, too. Mike Brown would find a place for Ginobili.

But if Ginobili signed to play with a contender, he would sign on to do less. Wouldn't LeBron — or Kobe Bryant — dictate when it matters?

Ginobili has gotten to do that in San Antonio, and he did Wednesday. Ginobili checked in with the Spurs down 12-0, and he directed a remarkable 25-0 run.

“I had no idea,” he said of the extent of the streak, “until someone told me at halftime.”

Just as remarkable, that wasn't enough.

Still, Ginobili ended with 22 points and eight assists, and the only difference this time was that Dick Vitale was on hand to gush. This is what Ginobili has done through three championships, and this is how the franchise was built to win.

He leads in crunch time. Others follow.

Utah knows this firsthand. In Game 4 of the 2007 Western Conference finals, in Salt Lake City, Ginobili scored 16 fourth-quarter points. That gave the Spurs a 3-1 series lead and the defining push toward their last Finals.

Of course, that was the Ginobili of 2007, and injuries have made the Spurs wonder if he will be that again. But the Ginobili of Wednesday showed what is possible.

Both to the Spurs and to him.

He seemed agressive and determined to go the hole. Something that I hand't seem from him before this season.

Manu hasn't disappointed me this season, and it sucked to hear that he doesn't think the Spurs will want him back. I'd love him to be able to play for the Spurs without worry, he's the heart of this team right now in my eyes. He's not perfect, but he brings things to the floor that no one else can.

Without Parker hurt this season, Ginobili is almost the only playmaker in this team, especially in crunch time. If the frontoffice don't resign him this summer, they better find someone with similar quality (giving all he can on court, strong desire to win, cerebral player...)

P.S. Can Hill be another one? (from the signature of the above poster)

Hmph.. if Manu's gone next season, at least we can be sure that Pop won't be trying (as usual) to replace him with a similar player, because there's none, not even close to him.

I can't even imagine this team without Manu...

Its apparent that Ginobili doesn't have the hops or the quick step to finish at the rim like he use to. I'm hoping he will get that back, but I don't think he will. But here's the flip side to this. Despite that he still finds ways to impact the game and help his team win. His heart and winning attitude is invaluable.

Here's the ironic part. The guy who still has all the athleticism in the world (RJ) can't seem to find any way to help his team. Yet he might be the cause of Ginobili's departure. I mean after taking on RJ's contract it would seem hard to resign Ginobili. I think this was the "out" the FO was banking on to keep the payroll in check. But seeing how Ginobili seems to be the one helping this team win, i'm curious to see how this is going to play out in the off-season.

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Originally Posted by ulosturedge

Its apparent that Ginobili doesn't have the hops or the quick step to finish at the rim like he use to. I'm hoping he will get that back, but I don't think he will.

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I am not completely sold on this. To me he is just getting it back. In fact, in the last 7 games, his jumper has been off, but he is finishing at the rim more efficiently, including a highlight dunk in traffic.

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Originally Posted by ulosturedge

But here's the flip side to this. Despite that he still finds ways to impact the game and help his team win. His heart and winning attitude is invaluable.

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I agree. I honestly don't think the Spurs will ever find a realistic replacement for him. I think he is quite unique.

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Originally Posted by ulosturedge

Here's the ironic part. The guy who still has all the athleticism in the world (RJ) can't seem to find any way to help his team. Yet he might be the cause of Ginobili's departure. I mean after taking on RJ's contract it would seem hard to resign Ginobili. I think this was the "out" the FO was banking on to keep the payroll in check. But seeing how Ginobili seems to be the one helping this team win, i'm curious to see how this is going to play out in the off-season.

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I still believe the Spurs will turn it around, including RJ. If nothing else, I would argue that RJ benefits tremendously from playing with Manu. Their combine efficiency and chemistry when both TD and TP were out was outstanding. A game against the Raptors comes to mind.

RJ's contractual situation is semi-orthogonal to Manu's new contract I think. I may be wrong, but time will tell.

Manu's playmaking ability and initiation of the offense was precision at it's best. It's a shame his teammates forgot how to shoot in the third.

If he's gone next season, it will be a massive loss to the Spurs . Im going to miss him bigtime.

I'm actually curious how many teams have had a 25-0 run during a game...and went on to lose the game. That's...remarkable.

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Originally Posted by Budkin

I can't even imagine this team without Manu...

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Duncan are Ginobili are the two people I can't picture the Spurs without. Some would say Parker too, I'm just not that huge a fan of his. He's definitely a big deal to the team and a lot of fans.

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Originally Posted by L.I.T

I'm actually curious how many teams have had a 25-0 run during a game...and went on to lose the game. That's...remarkable.

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25-0 runs are a lot less effective when you start the game down 12-0.

GINOBILI!!!

If the Spurs don't want him, I'd love to see him retire as a Laker.

i was screaming "give him an extension" from the rafters last night. haha.

i will be super depressed and pissed off if the FO lets ginobili go somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by Allanon

GINOBILI!!!

If the Spurs don't want him, I'd love to see him retire as a Laker.

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Just the thought of Manu going to the fakers makes me want to puke!

And Manu's bitching about loyalty and family makes me want to puke. Where was his loyalty to the Spurs in the summer of 2008? Cuts both ways, Manu.

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Originally Posted by Allanon

GINOBILI!!!

If the Spurs don't want him, I'd love to see him retire as a Laker.

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If James goes to NYC (which is likely, unless cleveland wins the title), expect Ginobili to play for the Knicks.

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Originally Posted by doobs

And Manu's bitching about loyalty and family makes me want to puke. Where was his loyalty to the Spurs in the summer of 2008? Cuts both ways, Manu.

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Where was the loyalty fo the Spurs FO when he was allowed to play on a broken ankle for a month last year?

They even made up new medical terms to cover the STRESS FRACTURE he played on from mid February 2009.

The Spurs made a choice.

They decided to go over the limit and pay 29 millions to Richard Frikking Jefferson.

A guy that epitomizes LOSS down to his very last cell of his body.

How can a Manu Ginobili fit in this picture, outside of an existing contract?

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Originally Posted by temujin

If James goes to NYC (which is likely, unless cleveland wins the title), expect Ginobili to play for the Knicks.

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Why wouldn't Ginobili want to come to the Lakers?

1) He gets right back into Championship contention
2) He gets to go to a rival and laugh at the Spurs FO because they didn't re-sign him
3) No rebuilding years in NY. NY will need at least 1-2 years to rebuild with LeBron before they're a contender
4) California is more like SA weather than NY.
5) Lots of Hispanics and Argies here in LA.

I guess the decision would be Kobe or LeBron but I don't think there is that much of a distinction.

I'm upset cause the spurs could have gotten several pieces to fill the SG/SF spot at a much cheaper rate. With $14million the spurs could have gotten a young SF thats athletic and a PF/C that young and athletic as well. And if they had money left over they could have save it to the bank for Manu. Instead the spurs have a lackluster SF thats only given a few highlight dunks and still dont have a bigman (6-10 or taller I mean) and are deep in the hole money-wise. Shane Battier makes $7million I think and Haywood makes $6million. Those 2 players wouldnt allow us to score alot like we do now, but teams wouldnt be getting layups and wide open jumpers either. I would even say that our record would be better now. Even if it wasnt, we would be worried about the offense right now. Which is important to winning, no doubt. But at least we would be able to hang our hat on the fact that the defense is solid and that defense wins championships. Would you rather be the 2005 Suns or the 2004 Pistons? Suns were exciting till they found a team that they couldnt run. The Pistons just outworked everyone and found themselves manhandling the lakers. A laker team that was much tougher then(2004 Shaq/Malone/Payton) than it is now(Gasol/Bynum/Odom).

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Originally Posted by Allanon

I guess the decision would be Kobe or LeBron but I don't think there is that much of a distinction.

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Manu has said a lot of times that he thinks that Kobe is better than Lebron. Either way I think he will resign with the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by Allanon

Why wouldn't Ginobili want to come to the Lakers?

1) He gets right back into Championship contention
2) He gets to go to a rival and laugh at the Spurs FO because they didn't re-sign him
3) No rebuilding years in NY. NY will need at least 1-2 years to rebuild with LeBron before they're a contender
4) California is more like SA weather than NY.
5) Lots of Hispanics and Argies here in LA.

I guess the decision would be Kobe or LeBron but I don't think there is that much of a distinction.

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1) Kobe is one year younger than Manu and he also starts to show his age.

2) Manu is a champion, he doesn't fight backward battles. Spurs are a big part of his career. It is clear from the interview.

3) D'antoni went to NYC precisely because of the 2010 free agents. My understanding, and I DO have an understanding there, is that NYC can get Wade and Bosh or James alone (not if Cleveland wins). Add that to Lee, Gallo and some role players (partly already there) and you have an instant candidate to the ECF, expecially with the aging Celtics and no more Cleveland. And expecially with Stern around.
Manu would be absolutely perfect. And I DO know that D'antoni appreciate the guy.

4) Bahia Blanca has a different weather, for that matter.

5) Lots of hispanics in NYC as well. And actually a bigger TV market compared to LA, hungry for a championship since, what 1973?
Can you translate that into Stern language, in terms of Joey Crawfords in Games 3?
You seem to be a pretty alert guy, you know what I mean.

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Originally Posted by doobs

And Manu's bitching about loyalty and family makes me want to puke. Where was his loyalty to the Spurs in the summer of 2008? Cuts both ways, Manu.

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Manu said nothing about family or loyalty. He simply said that he thought his relationship with the Spurs was different than it actually is. I think mostly he means that he thought that he and the Spurs always had an understanding about his playing for his national team. Now, that seems to be the breaking point between them.

I love Manu, but we need to remember that we lost the 2008 playoff sereis to the Lakers because he was hurt. We had an excellent shot to beat them if Manu was Manu, and I believe 100% that we would have if he had been healthy.

Yet two months later he plays in the Olympics, starting practice with the National Team probably a month after we lost the playoff series.

I don't know about all Spurs fans, but I was livid. Even he if he stayed "healthy" through the Olympics, how much damage was he doing to an already injured foot/ankle/ whatever?

Adding insult to injury, we all know the Duncan Window is a finite amount of time, and by choosing to play in the Olympics, Manu cost Tim and the Spurs a chance at a title in 2008 and 2009.

I'd love ot have him back, but I can see how the Spurs would be livid about this as well. After all, when Manu missed the first four weeks of the 2009 season, you'd better believe he got his $900K check that month.

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Originally Posted by Baseline

I love Manu, but we need to remember that we lost the 2008 playoff sereis to the Lakers because he was hurt. We had an excellent shot to beat them if Manu was Manu, and I believe 100% that we would have if he had been healthy.

Yet two months later he plays in the Olympics, starting practice with the National Team probably a month after we lost the playoff series.

I don't know about all Spurs fans, but I was livid. Even he if he stayed "healthy" through the Olympics, how much damage was he doing to an already injured foot/ankle/ whatever?

Adding insult to injury, we all know the Duncan Window is a finite amount of time, and by choosing to play in the Olympics, Manu cost Tim and the Spurs a chance at a title in 2008 and 2009.

I'd love ot have him back, but I can see how the Spurs would be livid about this as well. After all, when Manu missed the first four weeks of the 2009 season, you'd better believe he got his $900K check that month.

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When Jefferson get his monthly salary of 1.3 M, the Spurs FO should remember those 900K salaries of Manu in April-June of 2005 and 2007.

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Originally Posted by Baseline

l. After all, when Manu missed the first four weeks of the 2009 season, you'd better believe he got his $900K check that month.

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He sure did... payed by the insurance company not the Spurs though... :wakeup

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Originally Posted by Baseline

I love Manu, but we need to remember that we lost the 2008 playoff sereis to the Lakers because he was hurt. We had an excellent shot to beat them if Manu was Manu, and I believe 100% that we would have if he had been healthy.

Yet two months later he plays in the Olympics, starting practice with the National Team probably a month after we lost the playoff series.

I don't know about all Spurs fans, but I was livid. Even he if he stayed "healthy" through the Olympics, how much damage was he doing to an already injured foot/ankle/ whatever?

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sometimes the timeline blurs. remember:
manu's best seasons were after the 04 olympics (05), no rest, and the 07-08, after a summer of rest. remember he played very well that year but got hurt just before the playoffs. then tweaked it game 1 vs the suns at the end of the first OT if my memory serves me, till it got so bad he was a shell of himself vs LA (i'm pretty sure he played on that tweaked ankle for more than a month in the playoffs).

i agree if manu were healthy those playoffs, we finish off the hornets quicker and beat LA.

in the olympics, shit happened and he tweaked it.

apart from this injury, the only other serious injury manu had was his ankle injury coming in as a rookie. the rest have been (a lot) of bumps and bruises (and low mpg- I'm not saying he's iron man)

from manu's pov, his best playoffs came when he had no rest, and his "worst" (in the sense that he got injured, though he still produced a lot on his bad wheel) was the year he didnt play before. after that came the 08/09 disaster season and now here we are: manu has played 35 of 41 games (dont count the dallas game he tweaked his groin). thats 3 games less than the disaster season 08/09. so we can still hope that he'll get there for the PO.

I agree it sucks for duncan. but injuries happen to all teams. do people resent david for his back injuries and missing his potential because of it? or even duncan in 99/00? I looked up an article just to see some quotes and I couldn't pass this up:

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The Spurs enter the playoffs with other injured players.

David Robinson has a sore right knee, Sean Elliott has a jammed finger on his right hand and Terry Porter has a bruised right shoulder.

Popovich abruptly shrugged off the seemingly dismal scenario.

"People have bumps and bruises all year long," he said.

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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...urs_duncan_ap/

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Originally Posted by temujin

When Jefferson get his monthly salary of 1.3 M, the Spurs FO should remember those 900K salaries of Manu in April-June of 2005 and 2007.

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Good one.

Spurs should re-sign Manu if they want the team to earn money. Manu is an integral part of the reason why the Spurs have a worldwide appeal.

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Originally Posted by Baseline

I love Manu, but we need to remember that we lost the 2008 playoff sereis to the Lakers because he was hurt. We had an excellent shot to beat them if Manu was Manu, and I believe 100% that we would have if he had been healthy.

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I think it was an important factor, but not the sole reason. Now, I don't think we get to the WCF without Manu closing off the Suns at home or taking over game 7 against the Hornets.

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Originally Posted by Baseline

Yet two months later he plays in the Olympics, starting practice with the National Team probably a month after we lost the playoff series.

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He was cleared to play by the Spurs medical staff. So your anger is misdirected. He even announced after the playoffs he might not be able to play the Olympic games and had a press conference in Argentina to announce that.

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Originally Posted by Baseline

I don't know about all Spurs fans, but I was livid. Even he if he stayed "healthy" through the Olympics, how much damage was he doing to an already injured foot/ankle/ whatever?

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According to Pop he required surgery regardless and he rather Manu have the surgery before the season started than mid-season. Obviously neither Pop or Manu knew he would get injured on the other leg later down the season.

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Originally Posted by Baseline

Adding insult to injury, we all know the Duncan Window is a finite amount of time, and by choosing to play in the Olympics, Manu cost Tim and the Spurs a chance at a title in 2008 and 2009.

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Bullshit. Manu loves to win as muh as anybody else. He didn't play at all in the summer prior to 2008, and obviously he didn't injure himself on purpose, so how the hell he cost us the 2008 'ship? Injuies happen. It happened to Duncan with his knees twice and we're not talking about the 'ships that he costs us...

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Originally Posted by Baseline

I'd love ot have him back, but I can see how the Spurs would be livid about this as well. After all, when Manu missed the first four weeks of the 2009 season, you'd better believe he got his $900K check that month.

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Financially speaking, the Spurs did not pay Manu's paycheck during his recovery from the Olympic Games injury. Part of the arrangement with FIBA is that National Associations must secure insurance for NBA players to participate in their tournaments. The problem is entirely competitive.

http://i45.tinypic.com/3011yix.jpg

Manu is a spark to the spurs engine, and i think every one here would agree. Without him, spurs are still competitive, but will be lacking that x factor that helps a team win. Manu's is invaluable to the spurs. Some say not signing him in favor of an athletic wingman would help the timmy get his 5th ring-this is bull crap. A 70% Manu is more valuable to the spurs than any wing man available with the salary range.

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Originally Posted by pawe

Spurs should re-sign Manu if they want the team to earn money. Manu is an integral part of the reason why the Spurs have a worldwide appeal.

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:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

i almost shed a tear when the article mentioned the 2007 season (no joke)

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Originally Posted by urunobili

He sure did... payed by the insurance company not the Spurs though... :wakeup

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they have to pay more for insurance now for this

^^ I could see that possibly happening :(. Houston's not that far away from here plus Manu has already said that he would love to play with his teammates again (can you picture all the crazy passes to Scola) and has mentioned a couple of times that Houston is one team he was interested in.

blair is going to be greater then scola

It sucks if we cannot extend Manu's contract.

If he is not healthy, just give him a smaller contract.

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Originally Posted by ducks

blair is going to be greater then scola

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You don't know that.

Yao
Scola
Battier
Manu
Brooks

Landry
(Ariza)

I may be a rockets fan after this season lol

He'll be back....

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Originally Posted by ducks

blair is going to be greater then scola

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I'll drink to that :toast

Rockets? :lmao

They suck and they will only have the MLE to offer (if they re-sign Scrubla).
And Ginobili has already said that playing with a countryman wouldn't be a big factor in his choice.


I'm sure Spurs will be Manu's first choice by a large margin. Manu staying or not will mainly depend on the money Spurs are ready to offer him.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Rockets? :lmao

They suck and they will only have the MLE to offer (if they re-sign Scrubla).
And Ginobili has already said that playing with a countryman wouldn't be a big factor in his choice.


I'm sure Spurs will be Manu's first choice by a large margin. Manu staying or not will mainly depend on the money Spurs are ready to offer him.

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You are correct in saying Spurs would be Manu's first choice. However, he said if Spurs dont resign him, he would like to play with him National teammates somewhere.

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Originally Posted by spurtilldeath

However, he said if Spurs dont resign him, he would like to play with him National teammates somewhere.

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While he said he would like to, he also said that it wouldn't be a big factor in his choice.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

And Ginobili has already said that playing with a countryman wouldn't be a big factor in his choice.

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ok Wizards it is!

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Originally Posted by pawe

Spurs should re-sign Manu if they want the team to earn money. Manu is an integral part of the reason why the Spurs have a worldwide appeal.

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Manu is a big reason seats get filled at the At&T Center. The crowd goes nuts when he comes off the bench. He screws up, but he's the most exciting player to watch, and Hill has been taking lessons. If we don't have that spark, we're done. We can win without Tim or Tony, but have a lot harder time when Manu is out.

Spurs without Manu...darn...:depressed

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Originally Posted by LoveMySpurs

Manu is a big reason seats get filled at the At&T Center. The crowd goes nuts when he comes off the bench. He screws up, but he's the most exciting player to watch, and Hill has been taking lessons. If we don't have that spark, we're done. We can win without Tim or Tony, but have a lot harder time when Manu is out.

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We can???!!! :wow:wow

I would think those 3 together, when healthy & playing on all cylinders, would be formidable. Manni-TD/Tony? Uh, don't think so.....TD has been the 1 consistent player on the Spurs this season.