McDonald: Defensive woes dog Spurs

Defensive woes dog Spurs
Jeff McDonald

Spurs forward Tim Duncan recorded his 20,000th NBA point during Friday's loss to Houston. Contrary to popular belief, the Rockets did not match him point-for-point in the second half of their 116-109 victory.

To the beleaguered Spurs, who were helpless to stop Houston's never-ending layup line, it only felt that way.

The Rockets scored 61 points in the second half, a figure that could be considered an anomaly had Utah not torched the Spurs for 60 second-half points one game prior.

“We seem to be two different teams at different times,” Duncan said. “Through five- and six-minute stretches, we play really well. Then, for five-minute stretches, everything breaks down, and we go into total lapses.

“We always talk about playing 48 minutes the right way. Right now, we're nowhere close to that.”

It's been a disconcerting stretch for the Spurs, who have dropped four of five games and have squandered the first two games of a six-game homestand meant to provide momentum heading into next month's rodeo trip. They opened Saturday in fourth place in the Western Conference but a half-game closer to 11th than third.

Having built their four-championship pedigree on the back of a smothering defense, the Spurs (25-17) are struggling to keep the likes of the Jazz and Rockets — hardly offensive juggernauts — under triple digits.

The Spurs are scoring points at a pace unprecedented in the Gregg Popovich era — 101.1 per game — but have been giving away games lately with an inability to get stops.

Against the Rockets, that meant totaling 109 points and losing, the first time that happened to the Spurs in a non-overtime game since Dec. 26, 2001, when they dropped a 126-123 affair at Dallas.

“We're scoring enough points to win games,” Popovich said. “We're scoring more points than we've ever scored in our lives. But our defense is really sub-par, and it's killing us.”

Statistically, the Spurs don't appear to be a sieve. They are allowing 96.1 points per game, sixth-fewest in the NBA. Their field-goal percentage defense number — 45.2 percent — is ranked 10th. Good, but not great.

Over the past five games, however, Spurs opponents are shooting 47.4 percent. Only New Jersey and Minnesota — the two teams with the NBA's worst records — yielded a higher percentage during that span.

“If we want to be one the best teams in the league, we have to improve,” Popovich said. “Or we can just play how we've been playing and be eighth or ninth or whatever.”

Over the past few games, the Spurs have been a jump-shooting team but without the defensive chops necessary to survive the inevitable scoring lulls.

The Rockets shot a scorching 55.1 percent against the Spurs, mostly because layups are hard to miss. Houston tallied 52 points in the paint, much of it on grade-school stuff from Aaron Brooks and Kyle Lowry, who scored 23 apiece.

The Spurs believe their defensive troubles to be more mental than physical.

“When things get bad, or don't go as planned, we start bouncing our heads and feeling bad about ourselves,” Manu Ginobili said. “We kind of get stuck.”

Duncan's prescription for the Spurs' defensive woes is “continued work and continued understanding that that's what's going to take us where we need to be.”

“Either we're going to do that, or we're not going to do it,” Duncan said, “but we need to understand that's where we hang our hats.”

Certainly, the Spurs cannot be taken seriously as any kind of title contender unless their attention to defensive detail improves. In a second half to the season they will spend mostly on the road, defense remains the Spurs' best hope for survival.

“I still believe we have the potential to be contenders, but we're going to have to start doing things way better,” Ginobili said. “I think we have the personnel and experience and the time to turn things.”

They've been saying this since the start of the season.

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Originally Posted by weebo

They've been saying this since the start of the season.

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Yep, talking the talk but we have still yet to see walking the walk.

All the searching for answers ignores the larger fact that at most positions we play old and/or slow. The team is busting their ass to score two points. Given how difficult the game is for them it's no wonder there are lulls.

Last year Tony Parker could carry the team for stretches because he was not guardable. This year he is not the same player. They don't get enough easy baskets and they do not defend very well.

A positive is they are hitting their jumpers. They have shooters - McDyess, RJ, Manu, Parker. Alot more options. Come PO time, when they start duncan posting more and taking advantage of the man to man coverage, they will have that advantage. Then as the team adjusts and starts to double timmy, they'll have those mid range shooters waiting.

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Originally Posted by Harry Callahan

Last year Tony Parker could carry the team for stretches because he was not guardable. This year he is not the same player. They don't get enough easy baskets and they do not defend very well.

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parker is still unguardable. The difference is they are doubling parker more and the weak side is collapsing on parker instead of covering duncan.

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Originally Posted by Harry Callahan

Last year Tony Parker could carry the team for stretches because he was not guardable. This year he is not the same player. They don't get enough easy baskets and they do not defend very well.

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Winnah, winnah, chicken dinnah. An offensive drought is death to this team now. They absolutely CANNOT PLAY FROM BEHIND, no matter what the pace of the game is. I've seen it repeatedly. If they're behind by 5 points or more at any point in the 4th, you might as well change the channel. They can't get consecutive stops. They'll get one, then they'll make a shot, and then the next time back, they'll give back a basket, miss on their end, then give up another one, and suddenly 3 is 7, on the deficit end. They can no longer climb out of a hole.

You can't protect the paint with any of Bonner, Finley, Jefferson, or Mason playing power forward or center.

Someone print this out and staple it to Pop's forehead. Maybe he'll get a clue.

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Originally Posted by spursncowboys

parker is still unguardable. The difference is they are doubling parker more and the weak side is collapsing on parker instead of covering duncan.

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Parker is slower because of the PF. He was quick enough before, that he could create out of that defensive double team by driving deep enough, very quickly, to get them to BOTH follow him to the basket, and then get rid of the ball. He isn't even close to being able to do that this year. Now, one of them has time to drop off him, and the other can actually guard him now.

Parker is broken. He shows occasional flashes, but mostly his own scoring. It takes so much effort by him to do even that, that he isn't able to create on the move any more.

I think what is missing from our Spurs is what Pop said Corporate Knowledge. Proof of this is that we lose close games and make zero comebacks.... that used to be a strong point in the past...

Wait is the best medicine right now... that and hard work... lets not forget that we don't play at 100% its only January after all...

I expect, after the all-star break, tony, manu and Dice to play at a higher level, if that happens and somehow RJ plays better D we will do fine, secure a playoff spot and take it from there...

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Parker is slower because of the PF. He was quick enough before, that he could create out of that defensive double team by driving deep enough, very quickly, to get them to BOTH follow him to the basket, and then get rid of the ball. He isn't even close to being able to do that this year. Now, one of them has time to drop off him, and the other can actually guard him now.

Parker is broken. He shows occasional flashes, but mostly his own scoring. It takes so much effort by him to do even that, that he isn't able to create on the move any more.

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You're talking about a pick and roll. That would have nothing to do with speed. Shit Bonner can drive on a pick and roll. Maybe Parker isn't 100% but I have not noticed his ability to get to the basket diminish.

It's sad that Tim must to be the best defensive guy on the team every night

To me it's really depressing seeing two HOFers and an AllStar guy having trouble advancing to the playoffs not being near the contension of winning the title.

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Originally Posted by Harry Callahan

Last year Tony Parker could carry the team for stretches because he was not guardable. This year he is not the same player. They don't get enough easy baskets and they do not defend very well.

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And still the Spurs went through long stretches where they couldn't score or play defense. This team hasn't gone through a stretch where they've played for the full 48 minutes in what seems like several years. This current stretch is nothing new, and smacks of 2006 when they couldn't stop anyone because there were healthy bigs sitting on the bench watching the other team score in the paint.

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Originally Posted by jason1301

I think what is missing from our Spurs is what Pop said Corporate Knowledge. Proof of this is that we lose close games and make zero comebacks.... that used to be a strong point in the past...

Wait is the best medicine right now... that and hard work... lets not forget that we don't play at 100% its only January after all...

I expect, after the all-star break, tony, manu and Dice to play at a higher level, if that happens and somehow RJ plays better D we will do fine, secure a playoff spot and take it from there...

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Again, corporate knowledge seems to be relying on vets to keep the team motivated and to make good plays. At some point the coach needs to cultivate that, and keeping young energetic players from getting playing time and experience is NOT a way to do that.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Again, corporate knowledge seems to be relying on vets to keep the team motivated and to make good plays. At some point the coach needs to cultivate that, and keeping young energetic players from getting playing time and experience is NOT a way to do that.

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I understand where you are coming from... but what young energetic players are you talking about? Hill and Blair starting games proves you wrong.... Ian is not the answer to our problems by any stretch of imagination... we have seen in the past and this year too, that Pop is not afraid to play young players.

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Originally Posted by jason1301

I understand where you are coming from... but what young energetic players are you talking about? Hill and Blair starting games proves you wrong.... Ian is not the answer to our problems by any stretch of imagination... we have seen in the past and this year too, that Pop is not afraid to play young players.

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Blair's been starting lately more out of desperation than anything else, and it took Pop longer than anyone else to see that he should be starting. Hill did really well starting out last year and then hardly played at all during the end of the season all the way to the point where the Spurs were halfway out of the playoffs before he saw any time. Ian is absoutely the answer to the team's problems in every way: he's big, he can block shots and rebound, and he's young and can give everyone else a rest, and he knows the system since he's been here for years. Pop has shown that he's terrified to trust young players and relies on "corporate knowledge" to get by.

Really, at what point do you stop doing what isn't working and try something else? If Pop had been playing Ian 20 minutes the last five games, the worst thing that could have happened is that they'd have lost one more game then they did. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Blair's been starting lately more out of desperation than anything else, and it took Pop longer than anyone else to see that he should be starting. Hill did really well starting out last year and then hardly played at all during the end of the season all the way to the point where the Spurs were halfway out of the playoffs before he saw any time. Ian is absoutely the answer to the team's problems in every way: he's big, he can block shots and rebound, and he's young and can give everyone else a rest, and he knows the system since he's been here for years. Pop has shown that he's terrified to trust young players and relies on "corporate knowledge" to get by.

Really, at what point do you stop doing what isn't working and try something else? If Pop had been playing Ian 20 minutes the last five games, the worst thing that could have happened is that they'd have lost one more game then they did. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.

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Pop won't play Ian as long as Blair is putting up gaudy numbers against stiffs like Nenad Krystic.

Maybe once he realizes Blair is useless against teams with formidable centers / frontlines we'll see Ian get some run.

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Originally Posted by jason1301

I think what is missing from our Spurs is what Pop said Corporate Knowledge. Proof of this is that we lose close games and make zero comebacks.... that used to be a strong point in the past...

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The problem, though, includes stupid play from guys who have been here and playing together. I have seen Tim, Tony, and Manu play this season like they just started playing together.

I have said before what is lacking is trust that one's treammates will be in the right spot and do the right things scheme-wise.

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Originally Posted by TJastal

Pop won't play Ian as long as Blair is putting up gaudy numbers against stiffs like Nenad Krystic.

Maybe once he realizes Blair is useless against teams with formidable centers / frontlines we'll see Ian get some run.

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It's really too bad, because no matter how good Blair and Duncan are, they don't play 48 minutes each. Therefore, the Spurs still need another good young defensive shot-blocking big.

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Originally Posted by ploto

The problem, though, includes stupid play from guys who have been here and playing together. I have seen Tim, Tony, and Manu play this season like they just started playing together.

I have said before what is lacking is trust that one's treammates will be in the right spot and do the right things scheme-wise.

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The Spurs scored 113 points two of their first three games this season. Not knowing where to be or what to do is really not an excuse this far into the season, at least on offense.

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Originally Posted by TJastal

Pop won't play Ian as long as Blair is putting up gaudy numbers against stiffs like Nenad Krystic.

Maybe once he realizes Blair is useless against teams with formidable centers / frontlines we'll see Ian get some run.

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You don't need to dog on Blair to make a case for Ian. There's plenty of room in the rotation for both if we want to play tall ball.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

It's really too bad, because no matter how good Blair and Duncan are, they don't play 48 minutes each. Therefore, the Spurs still need another good young defensive shot-blocking big.

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Ian should start over Blair IMO.

Blair is a good player but not starting material. His best games so far have come against the likes of Nenad Krystic, Joel Anthony, and Chuck Hayes.

He's a specialty player much like Matt Bonner and belongs on the bench.

Blair best game so far has been against Perkins/Garnett...

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Originally Posted by ElNono

You don't need to dog on Blair to make a case for Ian. There's plenty of room in the rotation for both if we want to play tall ball.

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true that, Ian simply at the moment does not fit into Pop plans... I can agree with ppl saying he could be playing a bit more. But giving him starters minutes its ludicrous... he hasn't proven anything yet! One big game in his whole career and ppl saying he is our savior...lol

On Ian/Blair's minutes, Ian has not earned Blair's PT by any stretch of the imagination. And Ian's biggest problem, fouling, has not improved in years of work. Even if a guy is an athletic beast at the precise position we need one, Pop won't play you if you don't know how to defend and set screens consistently without fouling.

On the Spurs defensive problems: we just don't have the personnel right now to be a top 5 defensive team. That cut and dry. And even if we had more capable bigmen than Dyess (mainly), Blair and Bonner, Pop wouldn't play tallball 48 minutes anyway.

Touching on Dyess, he is a big part of why the Spurs just haven't been who we expected them to be. His only easy buckets come off jumpshots - he rarely makes daring cuts and even then, he's losing his teammates' trust when he fumbles easy passes. He hasn't defended well without fouling except for a notable exception against Dirk. He hasn't rebounded above average, which we all thought would be his strong suit. He's only getting a single block every other game.

He has had a bigger problem than some realize or admit in simply staying on the court without picking up fouls. He has the base and footspeed still to stop guys his size consistently, which he has shown through a few of our best stretches, but then he tends to foul unnecessarily.

It's kind of sad that the 37th pick in the 2009 draft has stolen McDyess's thunder and starting position and is outproducing him in every way imaginable. One would initially correlate our drop in defensive categories with our best bigmen either not showing up, being injured or not being accustomed to the NBA.

There is only a short time before the trade deadline. It will be interesting to see if the Spurs at least try and make a move. Sometimes it does not work out, but I am truly interested to see where the Spurs FO think the Spurs are at.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Blair best game so far has been against Perkins/Garnett...

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Props to Blair on that game. I missed that one.

But even the occassional good game against a top tier team doesn't change the fact that he offers little protection in the paint, can't finish around the rim, and can't shoot a free throw to save his life, despite going to the line frequently.

I love the kid's hustle and work ethic but the results are falling short of what the spurs need from their starting center. Now if he can improve 1 of the 3 major faults I outlined above, then maybe. MAYBE. If he can improve up on 2 of those faults, then YES.

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Originally Posted by TJastal

Pop won't play Ian as long as Blair is putting up gaudy numbers against stiffs like Nenad Krystic.

Maybe once he realizes Blair is useless against teams with formidable centers / frontlines we'll see Ian get some run.

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:lmao The only good Game Ian has was against fucking NEW JERSEY, the WORST team in the league. You probably should check yourself before you wreck yourself. Ian hasn't exactly shown anything against quality opponents.

What Blair gives you, despite all of his rookie warts is EXTRA POSSESSIONS, something this team desperately needs, and that Ian can't provide.

Ian's numbers in the NBA, although a small sample have been very positive. Also, even though NJ is the worst team, Lopez is a very good player. Ian also played very well against Zach Randolph defensively. He fouled him, but he also kept him from scoring, except for 1 or 2 trips to the FT line. He also kept him off the boards.

I like Ian and want him to get a chance, but I understand that it is hard to gauge him. But his metrics have been very positive.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

There is only a short time before the trade deadline. It will be interesting to see if the Spurs at least try and make a move. Sometimes it does not work out, but I am truly interested to see where the Spurs FO think the Spurs are at.

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I agree, it's going to be interesting. While I have no real clue what the Spurs FO is doing, my best guess would be that they're gently feeling out the trade market, at the same time hoping that they don't have to make a move, either because the team manages to turn on some sort of switch or gels in the next 4 home games and the first half of the Rodeo Road Trip.

One way or another, I'll be very glad when the trade deadline passes. I think the knowledge that "this is the personnel we have, live with it" will be beneficial for the players, for the coaches, and for the fanbase. Whether the Spurs stand pat or land a 12-player mega-deal, people can stop talking about "who should we get" and start talking about "here are the pieces, how do we make it work."

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Originally Posted by exstatic

:lmao The only good Game Ian has was against fucking NEW JERSEY, the WORST team in the league. You probably should check yourself before you wreck yourself. Ian hasn't exactly shown anything against quality opponents.

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You're right, it's only 1 game but he did go up against Brooks Lopez that game and showcased his ability to protect the paint, finish just about anything he gets his hands on around the rim, and actually make free throws, all of the things that Blair has shown the inability to do.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Sometimes it does not work out, but I am truly interested to see where the Spurs FO think the Spurs are at.

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Things aren't working out right now, dude.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Ian's numbers in the NBA, although a small sample have been very positive. Also, even though NJ is the worst team, Lopez is a very good player. Ian also played very well against Zach Randolph defensively. He fouled him, but he also kept him from scoring, except for 1 or 2 trips to the FT line. He also kept him off the boards.

I like Ian and want him to get a chance, but I understand that it is hard to gauge him. But his metrics have been very positive.

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+1

He would get more respect around the league if he was the spurs' regular starting center. He gets alot of fouls, but so do many centers around the league nowadays. It's difficult to effectively defend the interior/post these days without fouling thanks to the way the refs are calling the game nowadays. But its still better than having zero defense, which is what the spurs currently have.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

Things aren't working out right now, dude.

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I think he was just trying to say that even when you try your hardest to pull off a trade, sometimes the pieces just aren't there, or the other clubs are just too stubborn, or time simply runs out. Even if the Spurs are convinced they need a trade and approach it aggressively, there's no guarantee they'd be able to pull one off.

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Originally Posted by lurker23

I think he was just trying to say that even when you try your hardest to pull off a trade, sometimes the pieces just aren't there, or the other clubs are just too stubborn, or time simply runs out. Even if the Spurs are convinced they need a trade and approach it aggressively, there's no guarantee they'd be able to pull one off.

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This.

^ I know. I wasn't being argumentative, I was agreeing, because even if sometimes a move doesn't work, it's better than basically admitting we're no longer contenders for the title after all the offseason's expectations for TD's final years.

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Originally Posted by TJastal

+1

He would get more respect around the league if he was the spurs' regular starting center. He gets alot of fouls, but so do many centers around the league nowadays. It's difficult to effectively defend the interior/post these days without fouling thanks to the way the refs are calling the game nowadays. But its still better than having zero defense, which is what the spurs currently have.

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I don't agree with that entirely. In his recent play, yes, he has gotten some bogus calls. But he has always fouled a lot and it is just not the refs.

“We seem to be two different teams at different times,” Duncan said.

The Spurs are two different teams. One team that does well defensively is called conventional. The other team that stinks it up defensively is called small ball.

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Originally Posted by jason1301

I think what is missing from our Spurs is what Pop said Corporate Knowledge. Proof of this is that we lose close games and make zero comebacks.... that used to be a strong point in the past...

Wait is the best medicine right now... that and hard work... lets not forget that we don't play at 100% its only January after all...

I expect, after the all-star break, tony, manu and Dice to play at a higher level, if that happens and somehow RJ plays better D we will do fine, secure a playoff spot and take it from there...

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I knew the "it's only January" wouldn't take long to be seen here.

I'm not understanding those that think the Spurs should be waiting to flip the switch. Do you really want the Spurs burning out the big 3 before the playoffs even start because they might be fighting tooth and nail just to get a playoff spot? Would they have enough gas left for the playoffs playing all out and heavy minutes the last month or 2 of the season just to catch up?

As for Ian, this kid should be getting a chance and I don't mean garbage minutes. I mean meaningful in the flow minutes like he had against the Nets. That turned out pretty well last time I checked. Are some of you afraid that if he was given more chances the Spurs might lose? Well, they are losing anyway so whats to worry about. :lol

If Ian dosn't do well given the chance Spurs can allways take him out of the line up. So no lose there right?

I wouldn't say that Ian's fouling hasn't improved.

He got some bullcrap calls against MEM, like any 'rookie' or guy who hasn't played.

But one thing I noticed and posted about is what didn't happen against MEM with his fouls.

All throughout Summer Leagues and the pre-season, any one who watched those games closely could say that one of Ian's biggest foul problems, if not the biggest, was moving screens. He'd get called for them left and right. Part of the problem was frankly that he didn't set good screens.

None of his 4 fouls against MEM was a moving screen.

And on the other side, he drew 4 fouls, including an offensive foul. He even drew one foul on Zach Randolph when ZR held him so he couldn't get out and run the floor after a rebound and ZR knew he couldn't keep up.

If you have a guy who has shown improvement (better screens, no moving screens called) and is forcing fouls on the opponent . . . that's a good thing folks.

We just need to find that "NBA GM" that thought Ian could be an All Star talent, and work a trade where he sends us an AS for Ian. Win/win scenario. :lol

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

I don't agree with that entirely. In his recent play, yes, he has gotten some bogus calls. But he has always fouled a lot and it is just not the refs.

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Blair played fairly poor defense at the beginning of the year, but he has improved because he's had the minutes to play and improve. Mahinmi needs more than 2 games out of 40 for us to determine if he can eliminate his fouling tendencies.

Pop needs to play him more. A year from now I'm going to be annoyed when he's playing well for another team and Pop repeats what he said of Hill last year, 'I should have played him more.'

Ian's two real games have been very impressive, including Memphis. McDyess has had much worse games than Ian against the Grizzlies.

And young big men most often have foul trouble, they have to get court time and respect from refs before it changes, that's the way it is.