Silver Lining as the Panic Siren Sounds

The Spurs should be panicking right now. I won't be convinced otherwise. They are in a lot of trouble.

That said, I liked the distribution of minutes. An eight-man rotation featuring RMJ and not featuring Bogans, Finley or Bonner is a playoff-esque type rotation. This alignment allows the Spurs a lot of potential ... even though it'll be an uphill battle to get this rotation to defend well enough.

The main reason why I still believe is that Pop seems to seeing the light of common sense when it comes to who should play and how many minutes players should be out on the court. Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .

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Originally Posted by timvp

Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .

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He's been doing that since last year...don't see the light bulb going on above his head now....

I just want him to try and get Ian integrated as best he can this late in the season.

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Originally Posted by mexicanjunior

He's been doing that since last year...don't see the light bulb going on above his head now....

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Pop hasn't played midget ball until this season.

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Originally Posted by Buddy Holly

I just want him to try and get Ian integrated as best he can this late in the season.

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It's too late. Mahinmi isn't going to be the difference this year.

C- Blair PF - Duncan SF - RJ SG - Hill PG - Parker

C - McDyess SG- Manu PG - Mason

Spot minutes: Bonner, Finley, Bogans, Ratliff

The rotation was actually good tonight until the final minutes when we needed the right one but all we need is the elimination of small ball and for RJ to show up. Dice did well tonight. Hopefully this is the turning point for him.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Pop hasn't played midget ball until this season.

It's too late. Mahinmi isn't going to be the difference this year.

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I'm not asking for a difference. I just want the dude to play so we don't have to have Jefferson or Mason at the four. :bang

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Originally Posted by timvp

Pop hasn't played midget ball until this season.

It's too late. Mahinmi isn't going to be the difference this year.

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I could have sworn Pop was playing alot of Finley at the 4 last year...

I just saw pop's interview and he seems satisfied with what happened tonight. So.

I agree...I liked the fact that he shortened the rotation in an attempt to get the team jumpstarted.

What I didn't like was the continued shitacular defense the team played. The major problem though, like you said, is no shotblocking, limited defense, and Hill at this point is still overmatched if you're looking at him to be your primary defensive stopper.

Dice played well, but he's always going to be much more suited to being a post defender at this point in his career. Blair is never going to be a premier shotblocker. This leaves TD shouldering that weight, especially when the wing defenders can't lockdown worth shit.

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Originally Posted by mexicanjunior

He's been doing that since 2006...don't see the light bulb going on above his head now....

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Originally Posted by mexicanjunior

He's been doing that since last year...don't see the light bulb going on above his head now....

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Actually, he's been doing it since 2006, but what the hell.

Even Richard Oliver was saying that the Spurs played with more passion tonight than he's seen in a while... but I see no silver lining in this diharrea filled joke of a season.

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Originally Posted by timvp

It's too late. Mahinmi isn't going to be the difference this year.

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He could be if he actually played. I could get this team into the playoffs if I were coaching, and so could you, and we both know it.

I like being optimistic. In fact, I am known for it.

But its pretty weak when the best spin you can put on the team right now is that they're so bad that maybe they will panic enough to do something crazy to turn everything around.

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Originally Posted by mexicanjunior

I could have sworn Pop was playing alot of Finley at the 4 last year...

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Finley at power forward is small ball. At least Finley is big enough to play a role that almost looks like a power forward.

Midget ball is when there are four guards on the court. Before this year, I don't remember Pop ever going with four guards at the same time.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Actually, he's been doing it since 2006, but what the hell.

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To this extent? I know he did it during the Mavs series to try and match up against their speed but I recall a big being alongside Timmy in 07 and 08 most of the time...

To get 50W, Spurs need from tonight to to 25-14.

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Originally Posted by timvp

The Spurs should be panicking right now. I won't be convinced otherwise. They are in a lot of trouble.

That said, I liked the distribution of minutes. An eight-man rotation featuring RMJ and not featuring Bogans, Finley or Bonner is a playoff-esque type rotation. This alignment allows the Spurs a lot of potential ... even though it'll be an uphill battle to get this rotation to defend well enough.

The main reason why I still believe is that Pop seems to seeing the light of common sense when it comes to who should play and how many minutes players should be out on the court. Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .

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This rotation won't last, especially after Finely and Bonner become healthy. It sad that Pop will not give other people a chance, the Spurs have been succesfull with a legit big man next to Duncan.

You said it's too late for Ian, but why, it's obvious they're not going anywhere with this group. Manu's not the same, TP is not healthy, why not see what you have in Ian or Malik?

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Originally Posted by timvp

Finley at power forward is small ball. At least Finley is big enough to play a role that almost looks like a power forward.

Midget ball is when there are four guards on the court. Before this year, I don't remember Pop ever going with four guards at the same time.

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Misunderstood then...I thought you calling it midget ball was just another way to say small ball...my bad.

I'm starting to wonder wether Pop just doesn't care we give up 25+ point quarters all the time, or the players have just tuned him out...

Another silver lining: McDyess playing better.

If he turns into the 9 and 9 player that he was in the 2nd half of last year, that goes a long way toward solidifying the Spurs front line, trade or no trade.

Now we need to figure out how to convince Pop to play him in crunch time...

The Spurs have the most difficult schedule for the rest of the season.
I think they are not going to make the playoffs this year... That's sick ! :depressed

All we can hope right now is an 8th seed and a fucking sweep by the Lakers in the 1st round. Disgusting ! :bang:bang:bang

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Originally Posted by timaios

The Spurs have the most difficult schedule for the rest of the season.
I think they are not going to make the playoffs this year... That's sick ! :depressed

All we can hope right now is an 8th seed and a fucking sweep by the Lakers in the 1st round. Disgusting ! :bang:bang:bang

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Lottery ain't so bad. We might even have a shot at a solid player.

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Originally Posted by timaios

All we can hope right now is an 8th seed and a fucking sweep by the Lakers in the 1st round. Disgusting ! :bang:bang:bang

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That would be the absolute worst case scenario...we should take the lottery balls at that point...

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I'm starting to wonder wether Pop just doesn't care we give up 25+ point quarters all the time, or the players have just tuned him out...

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Would you blame players for tuning out a coach that puts 4 guards and a power forward into the game to try to get a stop? This is the same thing he did against Dallas in the '06 playoffs and made Dasagana Diop look like an all-star.

I'm not really worried about missing the playoffs. I highly doubt the Spurs miss the playoffs.

I'm more worried about the Spurs having to play so hard during the regular season to just make the playoffs that they are spent by May 1st.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Would you blame players for tuning out a coach that puts 4 guards and a power forward into the game to try to get a stop? This is the same thing he did against Dallas in the '06 playoffs and made Dasagana Diop look like an all-star.

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Pop deserves some negative criticism, if only because his words belie his actions. Why go on about stops and put small-ball, offense only lineups out there? He must think we're stupid, so maybe he does read ST afterall

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Originally Posted by timvp

The main reason why I still believe is that Pop seems to seeing the light of common sense when it comes to who should play and how many minutes players should be out on the court. Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .

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If that's the silver lining, we are not even a playoff team. We are getting abused on defense.

I'm not really sure we should give Jefferson another 10-day contract extension... oh wait...

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

To get 50W, Spurs need from tonight to to 25-14.

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We have one of the hardest schedules in history left. Spurs will be lucky to finish above .500, let alone make the playoffs.

We knew that there would eventually be a rough year where it all falls apart and the rebuilding slowly begins. Watching a dynasty crumble is one of the roughest things in basketball. Old Celtic fans talk about how hard those early 90s were to watch; even worse than all those terrible rebuilding seasons after that. If you know you are bad, 30 wins becomes an accomplishment. When you expect a championship from a core, and then they can't, thats when it becomes heartbreaking.

I want the Spurs to do some magic but I don't see it. When one of the worst offensive teams in basketball shoots almost 60% and scores 98 points on you this late in the season, there really isn't enough time to make enough improvement for a deep run. But, hey, the Spurs always surprise me so I'll stick to hoping.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I'm not really worried about missing the playoffs. I highly doubt the Spurs miss the playoffs.

I'm more worried about the Spurs having to play so hard during the regular season to just make the playoffs that they are spent by May 1st.

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Isn't that why going to an 8 man rotation is bad? Ostensibly, the bigger the rotation, the more rest for our horses -- in theory.

I really don't think we have the roster to compete on a consistent basis..

-No defensive big with Duncan..
-No athleticism at all..(the athletes didn't get a chance)..
-No perimeter defender other than Hill..
-Lack of size everywhere..(Ian doesn't play)..

The size can be corrected with athleticism, but we don't have either..

That's just the roster, it doesn't account for the poor coaching..

Spurs now have more home losses than road wins.

Ten teams in the West have more road wins than home losses.

Missing the playoffs is a very real possibility.

I'm also concerned that Pop has just lost the ability to motivate this team..

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Spurs now have more home losses than road wins.

Ten teams in the West have more road wins than home losses.

Missing the playoffs is a very real possibility.

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This 6 game homestand we are in is the easiest stretch we have left (and its not easy at all). We are 0-3 in it so far.

How anyone can be confident we make the playoffs with the way we are playing I don't know.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

-No athleticism at all..(the athletes didn't get a chance)..

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I don't see athleticism as a problem. This year's team has way more athleticism than any team in the TD Era.

Not enough size. This rotation won't do squat.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Spurs now have more home losses than road wins.

Ten teams in the West have more road wins than home losses.

Missing the playoffs is a very real possibility.

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95% chance Spurs make the playoffs. What number would you put on it?

You can't teach an old dog new tricks. They make the same mistakes over and over again. It makes me wonder what the hell they even accomplish at halftime or during practice. Game preparation absolutely sucks. They don't have one player I feel confident in taking the final shot. They hardly ever even take a high percentage shot. The spurs are going downhill fast.

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Originally Posted by timvp

95% chance Spurs make the playoffs. What number would you put on it?

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65%...but honestly, sneaking into a 6-8th seed doesn't seem all that enticing...

There is no siliver lining in any of this.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the team is going to lose, I'd rather they do so with players that have more of their career in front of them than behind them. Players that have promise WILL get better.

There's no reward for mediocrity. If you're losing anyway, it simply makes more sense to lose with young, cheap talent than lose with expensive old vets.

The more the Spurs lose, the more likely they trade for a big. Even if the current squad gels, they are not an elite team.

70% being optimistic

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

There is no siliver lining in any of this.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the team is going to lose, I'd rather they do so with players that have more of their career in front of them than behind them. Players that have promise WILL get better.

There's no reward for mediocrity. If you're losing anyway, it simply makes more sense to lose with young, cheap talent than lose with expensive old vets.

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Typically, that is the wise move. But with the Spurs having a legit window that may very well close after this season (if Manu leaves, I'd say the window is closed) or may extend one or two seasons, there really isn't a future to build toward. The Spurs have to play for the now.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I don't see athleticism as a problem. This year's team has way more athleticism than any team in the TD Era.

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I think athleticism is a real problem that's been getting worse ever since about 2005. You are right about this year's team, but the problem is the gap between our athleticism and the basic level of athleticism throughout the league is getting wider and wider. We have been declining in relative athleticism for a while now.

This + the length gap between us and other teams spells failure. You can't teach size and athleticism.

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Originally Posted by timvp

The Spurs should be panicking right now. I won't be convinced otherwise. They are in a lot of trouble.

That said, I liked the distribution of minutes. An eight-man rotation featuring RMJ and not featuring Bogans, Finley or Bonner is a playoff-esque type rotation. This alignment allows the Spurs a lot of potential ... even though it'll be an uphill battle to get this rotation to defend well enough.

The main reason why I still believe is that Pop seems to seeing the light of common sense when it comes to who should play and how many minutes players should be out on the court. Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .

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I saw all I needed to see when he had Manu at PF on the bull's possession when Noah got the putback. No Dice. No Blair. And even though Blair has been playing relatively poorly, he is still the best rebounder on the team. With a tie game and the other team with the ball, you leave your best rebounder on the bench. Totally inexcusable.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Typically, that is the wise move. But with the Spurs having a legit window that may very well close after this season (if Manu leaves, I'd say the window is closed) or may extend one or two seasons, there really isn't a future to build toward. The Spurs have to play for the now.

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How exactly do the Spurs have a window playing an 8 man rotation mainly of guards? When Finley gets back he'll probably get minutes from Jefferson or Dice.

What I don't understand, is how a veteran like Tim Duncan has not asked Pop and the Spurs franchise to cool it with small-ball. I mean, surely Duncan has a legitimate say when it comes to the playbook, right? Assuming he does, have we to believe he's OK with being the lone big man, the lone shot blocker, in the rotation? That he doesn't view it as overly taxing, like it appears to be?.... I really wonder what goes through TD's head.... Not so much Pop, we know what he's thinking.

The Spurs don't have a 'very strong' chance at making the playoffs. They've had the second easiest schedule in the NBA and have vastly underachieved. They've lost 3 straight at home against beatable competition. The same problems from earlier this season are still there. Our guys are facing injury troubles too, per the usual.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I don't see athleticism as a problem. This year's team has way more athleticism than any team in the TD Era.

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Maybe(I disagree), but our big 3 are all significantly less athletic than previous years..when your core gets older, you expect the FO to surround them with more athleticism to make up for their drop-offs, at least IMO..

We really don't have any athletes in the rotation other than Hill and Jefferson..the problem with RJ is that he's very slow when it comes to lateral quickness, so he doesn't even really have impressive athleticism outside of leaping..

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Originally Posted by timvp

Typically, that is the wise move. But with the Spurs having a legit window that may very well close after this season (if Manu leaves, I'd say the window is closed) or may extend one or two seasons, there really isn't a future to build toward. The Spurs have to play for the now.

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Agreed.

However with each passing game, cold, hard reality is setting in and it's beginning to look as though there is no NOW to play for.

The failure of the offseason acquisitions to improve the team makes it appear that the window is just about closed.

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Originally Posted by timvp

95% chance Spurs make the playoffs. What number would you put on it?

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70%, and that requires them to play better and suffer no major injuries the rest of the way.

If, however, the Spurs play the second half of the season just like the first half, even without injuries, then they'll finish with about 45-46 wins, which would give them about 25-30% chance of making the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Johnny RIngo

Lottery ain't so bad. We might even have a shot at a solid player.

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if that was Pop idea for this season then why did he trade Kirk, Fabb and Bruce if the only problem last season was that Manu was hurt, we should of kept the old team

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Originally Posted by timvp

Typically, that is the wise move. But with the Spurs having a legit window that may very well close after this season (if Manu leaves, I'd say the window is closed) or may extend one or two seasons, there really isn't a future to build toward. The Spurs have to play for the now.

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Manu off this team now would be an improvement.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

70%

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Noted :smokin

We have as good of a chance as anyone (slightly better) than most teams of making the playoffs-- and that's is the sad reality of where we are in 2010.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

I'm also concerned that Pop has just lost the ability to motivate this team..

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This reminds me. Didn't Pop call out the team already, calling them soft? It looks like it went unnoticed or it didn't make the same headlines as before.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Maybe, but our big 3 are all significantly less athletic than previous years, especially Manu and Tony..when your core gets older, you expect the FO to surround them with more athleticism to make up for their drop-offs, at least IMO...

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The Spurs Big Three is also considerably less athletic that the star players on other NBA teams.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

We really don't have any athletes in the rotation other than Hill and Jefferson..the problem with RJ is that he's very slow when it comes to lateral quickness, so he doesn't even really have impressive athleticism outside of leaping..

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I've thought all year long that RJ looks a bit heavier than in years past. Maybe it's me, but perhaps that is contributing to his lack of lateral quickness.

Timvp,

I don't know which thread to put this in (I already talked about it in this one) but can we discuss why in the hell Manu was in the game at PF for that Bulls possession where Noah got the tip to go ahead 93-91. Was there not a stoppage of play/could the Spurs not have called a timeout somewhere in there? I don't understand why you don't put at least one taller guy in to get a potential game altering rebound.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Now if we can only stop Pop from playing midget ball when defensive stops are needed . . . .

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You could have just copied and pasted this from 2007 on (and still going).

Small ball is the bane of our existence.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Noted :smokin

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Uh, how exactly do you plan to prove which number is correct?

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

The Spurs Big Three is also considerably less athletic that the star players on other NBA teams.

I've thought all year long that RJ looks a bit heavier than in years past. Maybe it's me, but perhaps that is contributing to his lack of lateral quickness.

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Nah, he hasn't been laterally quick for a few years now, ever since his major injuries piled up..RJ is the EXACT same player he was in his last year in NJ and last year in Milwaukee..the FO fucked up..

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

You could have just copied and pasted this from 2007 on (and still going).

Small ball is the bane of our existence.

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As timvp mentioned, the small ball of the past (playing a SF at PF) wasn't as horrible as it is now. Pop seems comfortable rolling with four guards with a big now. It's scary bad.

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Originally Posted by timvp

It's too late. Mahinmi isn't going to be the difference this year.

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Therein lies the rub. Everyone, even the blind homers like Tpark, can see this team isn't going anywhere this season.

Why not give the kid some run? You ain't winning with him riding the pine, may as well get the kid some run...

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Nah, he hasn't been laterally quick for a few years now, ever since his major injuries piled up..RJ is the EXACT same player he was in his last year in NJ and last year in Milwaukee..the FO fucked up..

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Pretty much this. He was losing his athletic ability. I tried to gather some information from Bucks fans on RealGM. Not good defensively, lost lateral quickness and athletic ability. If we got 2005 RJ, then it would be different.

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Originally Posted by NRHector

if that was Pop idea for this season then why did he trade Kirk, Fabb and Bruce if the only problem last season was that Manu was hurt, we should of kept the old team

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You're preaching to the choir. I was never a big fan of RJ. In fact, I've been haggling my brother, for the past three years, about SJax being the missing piece for the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

Therein lies the rub. Everyone, even the blind homers like Tpark, can see this team isn't going anywhere this season.

Why not give the kid some run? You ain't winning with him riding the pine, may as well get the kid some run...

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It doesn't make sense not to. Again, they aren't winning anyway, so what the hell.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

As timvp mentioned, the small ball of the past (playing a SF at PF) wasn't as horrible as it is now. Pop seems comfortable rolling with four guards with a big now. It's scary bad.

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Yeah, I caught up with his explanation of micro ball a little after that reply got posted :lol

Damn, I'd welcome us going back to the 'old' days of small ball. It's like Pop is trying to channel the bastard child of D'Antoni and Nellie out there these days.

Defensively, we simply don't have enough size, and the newly acquired players don't have the smarts either. Opposing teams make adjustments after half time, that we simply don't respond quickly enough too, or better yet predict.

Offensively, Teams have figured us out years ago, and we're not really trying to change it up, even with the new talent we've acquire at the offensive end.

I keep saying it, but I still it think it boils down to a lack of coaching depth. I'm not saying it's Pop, but I am saying we need some new blood in the assistant ranks to provide some support, fresh ideas and some creativity.

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Originally Posted by timvp

95% chance Spurs make the playoffs. What number would you put on it?

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I think 6 teams are sure to be in front of the Spurs at the end of the season

LA
Dallas
Denver
Portland
Utah
Memphis

Then there's 2 spots left for 5 teams :

San Antonio
Oklahoma City
Houston
Phoenix
New Orleans

The Spurs schedule is insane !!!
5 back to back in March... A lot of +50% teams...

I think the Spurs have a shot at the 8th seed if Oklahoma City, Houston, Phoenix & New Orleans suck BIG time the rest of the season.

For me it's 25% chance Spurs make the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

Timvp,

I don't know which thread to put this in (I already talked about it in this one) but can we discuss why in the hell Manu was in the game at PF for that Bulls possession where Noah got the tip to go ahead 93-91. Was there not a stoppage of play/could the Spurs not have called a timeout somewhere in there? I don't understand why you don't put at least one taller guy in to get a potential game altering rebound.

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Pop had a lot of chances to take the Spurs out of midget ball. The problem is that Pop wants to go small but RJ is such a soft azz player at this point that he's even worst at PF than Manu. I personally think Pop should have put in McDyess and matched him up against Deng but that makes too much sense . . .

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Uh, how exactly do you plan to prove which number is correct?

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Good question.

I'll just bump this thread when the Spurs make the playoffs. :hat

I think a lot of the guys have tuned out Pop, and with good reason. I don't understand why Tim will put up with being the only big on the floor. It's idiocy, and it's completely unfair to Tim.

Obviously Parker isn't happy with Pop, and now we're hearing that Manu may not want to re-sign.

Doesn't surprise me. Dictatorships only work for so long, and then they're overthrown...by their own people.

I just think we are fucked. We will most likely make the playoffs. But, the West is too fucking tough to not have a single round of homecourt advantage at all (which is a situation we are staring right in the face).

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Originally Posted by timvp

Good question.

I'll just bump this thread when the Spurs make the playoffs. :hat

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Uhh, which would prove nothing. :lol

The only thing that would be definitive would be the Spurs missing the playoffs. :depressed

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Originally Posted by SequSpur

Manu off this team now would be an improvement.

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As Manu gets older, he's becoming more of a Horry type player.... extremely valuable for a championship type team, but can no longer consistently shoulder a heavy load.

firesale time? everyone sucks but tim duncan.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Nah, he hasn't been laterally quick for a few years now, ever since his major injuries piled up..RJ is the EXACT same player he was in his last year in NJ and last year in Milwaukee..the FO fucked up..

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He's not the "EXACT" same player. The big difference is he's not getting to the line. If he were still getting to the line, he'd be a much more efficient player.

You can say his defense is the same but his offense has undeniably declined ... and it's more than just not getting the touches.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

Therein lies the rub. Everyone, even the blind homers like Tpark, can see this team isn't going anywhere this season.

Why not give the kid some run? You ain't winning with him riding the pine, may as well get the kid some run...

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

It doesn't make sense not to. Again, they aren't winning anyway, so what the hell.

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Well, if hypothetically the Spurs have no shot at the championship, then I would agree that they should play their younger players to build toward next season. But personally I think there is still championship hope this season so I won't agree with anything other than an all-in mentality.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

The only thing that would be definitive would be the Spurs missing the playoffs. :depressed

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Not really. That could have just been the 5%.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Good question.

I'll just bump this thread when the Spurs make the playoffs. :hat

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Think about it this way: Vinnie Del Negro just outcoached Pop in crunchtime. Are you really confident about that prediction?

If the Spurs make the playoffs doing what they're doing now, I'll give you credit, but I'd bet that the only way that happens is if some of the teams above them run into misfortune just short of a team plane crash.

The future the Spurs are playing for, as of this moment, is the 2010 postseason. They aren't going to do it limiting minutes with a shortened rotation of three and four guard lineups.

Timvp, dont you think that we need either Bonner or Mahinmi to play at least 10m per game for this rotation to work. Come playoff time Bonner will obviously get the nod over Ian which is fine. But I think we need at least 1 more big... Dice/Blair/Duncan just isn't going to cut it.

It's hard to say this team is more athletic when your top athletes (on paper) barely get to the basket anymore... I'd say Hill is probably the guy that went to the rim more... RJ doesn't even dares attacking the rim... Blair I don't really consider a great athlete... he's more wingspan and hustle than anything else...

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Think about it this way: Vinnie Del Negro just outcoached Pop in crunchtime. Are you really confident about that prediction?

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Now take a deep breath... read that line again...
...add that Pop was playing Nellie ball...

:depressed

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Originally Posted by Trimble87

Timvp, dont you think that we need either Bonner or Mahinmi to play at least 10m per game for this rotation to work. Come playoff time Bonner will obviously get the nod over Ian which is fine. But I think we need at least 1 more big... Dice/Blair/Duncan just isn't going to cut it.

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I like three-man bigmen rotations. 1999 and 2003 was Robinson, Duncan, Rose. 2005 was Duncan, Nazr, Horry. 2007 was basically Duncan, Oberto, Horry.

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Originally Posted by timvp

He's not the "EXACT" same player. The big difference is he's not getting to the line. If he were still getting to the line, he'd be a much more efficient player.

You can say his defense is the same but his offense has undeniably declined ... and it's more than just not getting the touches.

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According to 82games.com his DrawF% is 15.3, which is down from 15.7 last year, which isn't a significant drop-off..

It's significantly down from 2 years ago, but it's pretty much the exact same as last year..

The FO was obviously hoping Jefferson would step his game up and regain his former status now that he joined a potential contender..it obviously hasn't worked out, which speaks volumes on their mistake AND on the fact that Jefferson has no passion to win..

I watched the Miami-Cleveland game tonight, and something that is glaring about the Spurs is that we don't have a dominant player this year - a guy who can take over a game. Obviously LeBron can, and Wade can, and Melo can, and Bryant can (if he's actually hitting shots).

When we won championships, Tim dominated games, and our defense closed them. It was that simple. This year, tim is playing well, but he's not as dominant as he was. That's fine, we all know who he is at this stage. But our defense is not even Spurs defense. Those days are over. Manu is not taking over games anymore, and Parker isn't either. Parker is slowed by the PF. Manu is still inconsistent, and even when he's really on, it's only for short stretches.

For the last three years, Pop and the FO have been expecting the 2007 Spurs to just spring to life, and now guys are three years older, Manu blew two straight playoffs with injuries, and we find ourselves where we are now...smack dab in the middle of mediocrity.

Boston didn't have a dominant player the year they won a title and that was only 2 years ago, and they still don't..Orlando doesn't have an offensively dominant player either..

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Originally Posted by Baseline

I watched the Miami-Cleveland game tonight, and something that is glaring about the Spurs is that we don't have a dominant player this year - a guy who can take over a game. Obviously LeBron can, and Wade can, and Melo can, and Bryant can (if he's actually hitting shots).

When we won championships, Tim dominated games, and our defense closed them. It was that simple. This year, tim is playing well, but he's not as dominant as he was. That's fine, we all know who he is at this stage. But our defense is not even Spurs defense. Those days are over. Manu is not taking over games anymore, and Parker isn't either. Parker is slowed by the PF. Manu is still inconsistent, and even when he's really on, it's only for short stretches.

For the last three years, Pop and the FO have been expecting the 2007 Spurs to just spring to life, and now guys are three years older, Manu blew two straight playoffs with injuries, and we find ourselves where we are now...smack dab in the middle of mediocrity.

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My exact thoughts, Duncan's numbers are good, but he's not carrying the team down the stretch my any imagination.

He certainly isn't anchoring the defence either. (Albiet as he is expected to do it alone with 4 smurfs.)

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Boston didn't have a dominant player the year they won a title and that was only 2 years ago, and they still don't..Orlando doesn't have an offensively dominant player either..

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No, they had 2 of them.... Garnett & Pierce.

Duncan is not playing at the level of either of them down the stretch.

the answer isn't on the spurs. the players are soft. this is the 2009 spurs playoff team. spurs came off a first round exit by acquiring an even softer player. they have no one to blame but themselves. if there's no trade or shakeup by the deadline, this team isn't going anywhere. i have seen no signs of jefferson resembling anything remotely close to a defensive stopper, manu has way more crappy games than good ones, and parker has just teetered between average and above average. no way this team is winning anything.

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Originally Posted by hsxvvd

No, they had 2 of them.... Garnett & Pierce.

Duncan is not playing at the level of either of them down the stretch.

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:lol

Eventually, it's the defense. The offense can put up points... we just can't stop anybody, and nobody seems to give a shit, which is what's aggravating...

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Originally Posted by Baseline

I watched the Miami-Cleveland game tonight, and something that is glaring about the Spurs is that we don't have a dominant player this year - a guy who can take over a game. Obviously LeBron can, and Wade can, and Melo can, and Bryant can (if he's actually hitting shots).

When we won championships, Tim dominated games, and our defense closed them. It was that simple. This year, tim is playing well, but he's not as dominant as he was. That's fine, we all know who he is at this stage. But our defense is not even Spurs defense. Those days are over. Manu is not taking over games anymore, and Parker isn't either. Parker is slowed by the PF. Manu is still inconsistent, and even when he's really on, it's only for short stretches.

For the last three years, Pop and the FO have been expecting the 2007 Spurs to just spring to life, and now guys are three years older, Manu blew two straight playoffs with injuries, and we find ourselves where we are now...smack dab in the middle of mediocrity.

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When all it takes to score on the Spurs is to pick Timmy off at the three point line and then outrun everyone to the front of the rim, I'm not sure how much "taking over" is going to help. I guess we should be asking Roger Mason to have done a better job of blocking out Joakim Noah, too.

Silver Lining?

So Pop plays the right guys and Spurs still lost and it's a silver lining?
I don't think how it can be something good. It just makes the cloud over Spurs' heads even deeper.

Trying to find a silver lining in everything is just plain BS. This team has a lot of upside but some players (mainly Jefferson and Ginobili) aren't playing at all at their previous level and this team has some huge holes in the way it is built.

At least you can't blame this loss on Bogans...

Im getting pretty tired of this hindsight criticisxm of the Jefferson trade. You can talk about how bad he and Dice have been, but we were all giddy with excitement when this trade went down. The Spurs FO deserver a TON of credit for going out and trying to put us in the best position possible. It hasn't worked out very well, yet, but they certainly put the effort in.

As for all this "big trade" speculation... what exactly do you want the spurs to do? You think the rest of the NBA hasn't seen Jefferson suck this year? Who's going to take on his contract now. And really what else do we have to offer? Bonner Finley RMJ for *insert All Star Player here*? Give me a break.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

According to 82games.com his DrawF% is 15.3, which is down from 15.7 last year, which isn't a significant drop-off..

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By changing from being a volume shooter to fitting into a system, a rise in DrawF% should have come naturally. As we've seen, it hasn't.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

The FO was obviously hoping Jefferson would step his game up and regain his former status now that he joined a potential contender..it obviously hasn't worked out, which speaks volumes on their mistake AND on the fact that Jefferson has no passion to win..

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Yeah, the Spurs were hoping for him to revert back to previous levels. They said so even when the trade was made.

That hasn't happened, to say the least.

A coach that can't beat the Bulls a single time with this lineup isn't going to be able to win with more talent, even if they maximized the trade value on everyone they've currently got.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Trying to find a silver lining in everything is just plain BS. This team has a lot of upside but some players (mainly Jefferson and Ginobili) aren't playing at all at their previous level and this team has some huge holes in the way it is built.

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Originally Posted by timvp

The Spurs should be panicking right now. I won't be convinced otherwise. They are in a lot of trouble.

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You are agreeing with me. Plus saying silver lining is BS and then saying the team has a lot of upside (which in itself is a silver lining) doesn't make much sense.

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Originally Posted by timvp

You are agreeing with me. Plus saying silver lining is BS and then saying the team has a lot of upside (which in itself is a silver lining) doesn't make much sense.

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The way I interpreted it is that the team has a lot of upside, but the whole team is not being played currently. As long as the people making the lineup decisions stays the same there's not any silver lining to be found.

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Originally Posted by timvp

saying silver lining is BS and then saying the team has a lot of upside (which in itself is a silver lining) doesn't make much sense.

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No, it isn't a silver lining.
I'm not trying to find some positives into this debacle.