Manu: Should he go or should he stay?

My opinion of Manu is that he will probably be my all-time favorite spur for as long as i live. With that said though I do agree that father time has crepped up on manu and he is primarily an outside shooter at this point in his career. He just doesn't have the first step he used to and cannot get to the hoop nearly as much. As much as I hate to say this but mason at sg in place of manu is not all that bad of replacement. I am curious to here why some of you think he should or should not be traded this season.

Trade tony instead of manu.

Dude, like.... seriously, could you not have used the 17 other threads talking about this right now?

Trade. since his game has not completely diminished, i thing that you could get a (some) good young quality player(s) in return.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ffadicted

Dude, like.... seriously, could you not have used the 17 other threads talking about this right now?

---

Dude, seriously, this topic needs its own thread, not on page 20 of some other thread.

I think the Spurs need to explore what's out there before the trade deadline. It's the sensible thing to do, IMO.

It is looking more and more likely that Manu will not be here next season - especially with the way the season is going. I think that decision should be driven by what the Spurs can get for him in return.

I'm not completely against trading him. That said, the trade will have to be something that has actual future value.

When I read this kind of questions, my first reaction is:

Damn, I'm happy to just be a casual fan sitting behind his computer and not one of the FO guy who has to take some heart breaking decision.

If manu's gone for amare. Spurs might be a better team. But once playoffs come, at end of close games, who is gonna be the play maker??? amare? :lol

truth is Manu is probably our only real playmaker.

To be honest, I also fully expect the Spurs to start conversations with his agent if they don't move him by the trade deadline and Manu is still healthy...

Shit makes no sense.... why trade an expiring contract for an expiring contract, at the end of the year if the manu-amare trade goes through both teams will have nothing anyway (Coz losin manu and gettin this nigga is not gettin us our 5th ring). At least if they traded Jefferson for amare then the suns have a player for the next 2 years (who'll prolly end up playing better in their system)...and the spurs can try to salvage whats left of hte season and the play off run with stat...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hater

If manu's gone for amare. Spurs might be a better team. But once playoffs come, at end of close games, who is gonna be the play maker??? amare? :lol

truth is Manu is probably our only real playmaker.

---

truth is that tim and tony are more clutch than manu for the past few years. 82 games.com is more than clear about that.

i'd really hate to lose manu. but to think Amare isn't better than him, in RS or PO, is just insane.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kace

truth is that tim and tony are more clutch than manu for the past few years. 82 games.com is more than clear about that.

i'd really hate to lose manu. but to think Amare isn't better than him, in RS or PO, is just insane.

---

what part of "playmaker" don't you get?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hater

what part of "playmaker" don't you get?

---

:lol

I can't think of a PnR guard on our team to combo with Amare that would be better than Manu. And thats with Manu fandom aside. One of the downsides of trading Manu for Amare is that they could be devastating alongside each other, and would offset Manu's poor shooting a bit by allowing his newer concentration on passing to get Amare lots of points (which in turn makes up for Manu's lack of scoring)...at least in theory.

trade him, he is a turnover machine and a liability

It's too bad that we have to resort to trading Manu because Jefferson is such a useless POS.

I was one of them who wouldn't mind Manu to be traded last summer. Well, maybe the time now has really come for him to go. I still don't mind him to go and get some solid player for him.

But I do think when possibly trading one of our players soon, manu shouldn't be the first option to let go, not right now.

Anyway, it will always be a shame, when such a player leaves, he has done so much for us and is a great player. A lot of Spurs fans would be feeling shitty and sad if he left. That's f*cked up, but then again, its a business.

I am starting to think that it won't be the Spurs decision, but Manu's.

He is obviously playing with people that aren't ready for him, IE passing, playmaking. Just as sad as it is to see Tim playing with missing pieces around him, you can say the same for Manu. He isn't the same as before, but he is still playing at a high level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hater

what part of "playmaker" don't you get?

---

at the end of close game, i only remember two kind of plays from TP and Manu: have the ball in their hands in the top of the paint, drive to the rim to score or to pass if the lane is clogged (with maybe a step back 3pts shot from manu).

for tim, it's having the ball on the post.

i don't see any specific playmaking ability there. and the clutch stats for manu in PO are quite average, clearly worse than tony's and tim's ones for the last three PO at least.

so when you talk about needing manu to close game, i say that tony and tim are there for this. A lot of teams haven't even two closers but only one.

PS: oh, and i'm clearly against a manu trade. i just want to see him on this team till the end of his career, even if that means having to read overreactions from his fanbase for some few years.

These are athletes in professional sports not your family members. In horse racing do you as an owner keep going with your old horse that is half what it used to be, injury prone, and on a decline because you love it? OR do you go with a new up and coming fresher young buck?

Professional Sports is a business. Why stress yourself out thinking it's not?

With my heart I would hate to see any of the Spurs go, I always have but I realize it's just that. An entertainment business.

What I don't understand is where the "Manu's playing has been reduced and will keep going down" thing is coming from.
Manu against Houston took for the first time in this season 15 shots, 15! That's pretty low for an All Star guard. In my opinion here some people is blaming him not putting up 20 ppg for the Spurs problems (along with RJ), and that's not true at all..
Manu is not scoring 20 ppg not because he's old, he's trying to be more of a playmaker in the game. Which has been great at it. The Spurs have enough weapons on offense and he's trying to have another role in the team. That's what's great about him and what the Spurs lose and probably never get something similar in return.
Sometimes here I see people overestimating the injury-age thing too much. Manu is fine, and will be fine. In my opinion I think that in PO time he'll unleash his best game just like in 2007. The bad thing for Manu is that now probably he can't focus 100% in the game with a lot of trading/re-singing topics around him and we know Manu is confidence guy, that's his fuel and this must be really affecting it. Once the trade deadline is over he'll probably can relax and keep playing and come the PO time he'll probably have this best self.

For the best of the team, hmm.... Go!!!!!!

Im pretty sick of hearing of Manu like a 78 year old grown up that he can't even run just because he's not putting 48 pts every night. He still has it. Stfu...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MmP

What I don't understand is where the "Manu's playing has been reduced and will keep going down" thing is coming from.
Manu against Houston took for the first time in this season 15 shots, 15! That's pretty low for an All Star guard. In my opinion here some people is blaming him not putting up 20 ppg for the Spurs problems (along with RJ), and that's not true at all..
Manu is not scoring 20 ppg not because he's old, he's trying to be more of a playmaker in the game. Which has been great at it. The Spurs have enough weapons on offense and he's trying to have another role in the team. That's what's great about him and what the Spurs lose and probably never get something similar in return.
Sometimes here I see people overestimating the injury-age thing too much. Manu is fine, and will be fine. In my opinion I think that in PO time he'll unleash his best game just like in 2007. The bad thing for Manu is that now probably he can't focus 100% in the game with a lot of trading/re-singing topics around him and we know Manu is confidence guy, that's his fuel and this must be really affecting it. Once the trade deadline is over he'll probably can relax and keep playing and come the PO time he'll probably have this best self.
We know that the guy

---

no matter the number of shots he takes, less than 40 % FG is quite bad. but i agree that we could see a better manu till PO. i hope so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MmP

Im pretty sick of hearing of Manu like a 78 year old grown up that he can't even run just because he's not putting 48 pts every night. He still has it. Stfu...

---

Again this is the NBA not just some regular Joe pick up games at the gym. Of course Manu is still a good athlete compared to mos,t but compared to the NBA hes an aging player with a ton of miles on him.

Trade him. Please.

I´m curious. I would like to watch a Nash/Manu backcourt, and a Tim/Amare frontcourt.

Manu has been great for the Spurs at times. He's also cost us some series. And now he can't play consistently. This is a man's game and it's time for the Spurs FO to do what's right and try to trade him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElNono

I think the Spurs need to explore what's out there before the trade deadline. It's the sensible thing to do, IMO.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SenorSpur

It is looking more and more likely that Manu will not be here next season - especially with the way the season is going. I think that decision should be driven by what the Spurs can get for him in return.

---

These. It's the prudent thing to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MB20

Trade him. Please.

I´m curious. I would like to watch a Nash/Manu backcourt, and a Tim/Amare frontcourt.

---

Both nightmares for any opponent, especially if Timmy, Nash and Manu are in their primes when that happens.

Manu needs to stay, there is no one out there that has the same value as Manu, he is a playmaker, great BB IQ , plays hard, great 3 point shooter, not selfish and can knock bats down.
I'm sorry I just don't see we can get anybody better than Manu and if we bring someone what are the chances that the would be another R Jefferson specially this late in the season and let him go next year because the new addition didn't have minutes or a full season to learn the "system" like Gooden

The Spurs better get a damn good return if they trade Manu. If they don't, the championship door would be closed forever. Manu may just be a shadow of his former self but the way he fits into this team and the role he takes is almost impossible to be replicated. Praying that Manu is healthy and hot for the playoffs equates to better championship odds than any other possible scenario I've seen discussed.

To me, trading Manu (or letting him walk) would mean that the Spurs have to tear down their system and start again. It's more than just about adding talent to replace talent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

The Spurs better get a damn good return if they trade Manu. If they don't, the championship door would be closed forever. Manu may just be a shadow of his former self but the way he fits into this team and the role he takes is almost impossible to be replicated. Praying that Manu is healthy and hot for the playoffs equates to better championship odds than any other possible scenario I've seen discussed.

To me, trading Manu (or letting him walk) would mean that the Spurs have to tear down their system and start again. It's more than just about adding talent to replace talent.

---

:toast

Pretty much what timvp said. It's not worth trading Manu unless you get someone real talent for him. His championship experience, his competitive nature, bbIQ, his knowledge of the system, and all the intangible things he does on the court are something that aren't easily replaced.

I think it's kind of bullshit that for some reason we think Manu deserves to be in the hotseat. What about RJ? What about McDyess? And Tony? We knew Manu was going into the latter part of his career like Duncan. That's the whole reason why the FO went after RJ, but wtf has he done for us..we weren't suppose to need Manu to score 20+ a night. I'm still trying to figure out what we got in McDyess also. Why were we going after this guy so hard again? And Tony is a blackhole out there if he isn't scoring. He can't pass the ball and he can't play defense.

Now I can't even figure out why we are talking about Manu again.. scoring isn't our problem. We have plenty of people who can score. We need people who can make an impact on the defensive end. Manu is doing exactly what he needs to do on this team. If the players we acquired came in and did exactly what we were expecting of them we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

like tons of ppl have said in the past. No way Spurs get same value back if they trade manu. It's a lose lose situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kace

at the end of close game, i only remember two kind of plays from TP and Manu: have the ball in their hands in the top of the paint, drive to the rim to score or to pass if the lane is clogged (with maybe a step back 3pts shot from manu).

for tim, it's having the ball on the post.

i don't see any specific playmaking ability there. and the clutch stats for manu in PO are quite average, clearly worse than tony's and tim's ones for the last three PO at least.

so when you talk about needing manu to close game, i say that tony and tim are there for this. A lot of teams haven't even two closers but only one.

PS: oh, and i'm clearly against a manu trade. i just want to see him on this team till the end of his career, even if that means having to read overreactions from his fanbase for some few years.

---

clog the paint and guard the pick and roll and Tim + Tony are neutralized. Manu's playmaking ability goes beyond that, he can create his own shot and get others involved. That is why he has far superior playmaking abilities than Tim or Tony.

Taking manu out, who do you have to be the glue guy and get others involved??? nobody. Mason or HIll would be the closest to that role and are nothing compared to Manu.

For his name to come to the forefront of trade rumors means his contract extension talks are going nowhere. If manu's agent insisted on another 10 mil $ contract for 3 more years (just hypothetical) would the spurs be in the wrong in trying to get someone for him since he probably will close to that in the FA market? Do I wanna keep Manu, yes, Do I think he would leave in the offseason for higher offer from another team, I would have to say yes. The spurs would be very stupid not to dangle him out on the market if they believe they cannot sign him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

The Spurs better get a damn good return if they trade Manu. If they don't, the championship door would be closed forever. Manu may just be a shadow of his former self but the way he fits into this team and the role he takes is almost impossible to be replicated. Praying that Manu is healthy and hot for the playoffs equates to better championship odds than any other possible scenario I've seen discussed.

To me, trading Manu (or letting him walk) would mean that the Spurs have to tear down their system and start again. It's more than just about adding talent to replace talent.

---

Considering the Spurs level of success in recent years, to get back where they ultimately want to be - they have to tear it down and rebuild.

Maybe Tim can mentor Amare like DRob did to him.

I know Spurs fans have love for Manu but that's a deal they have to make if they can. So unlikely another Tim/DRob comes in the lotto - especially with top collegiate players staying only a year or 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2Cleva

Considering the Spurs level of success in recent years, to get back where they ultimately want to be - they have to tear it down and rebuild.

Maybe Tim can mentor Amare like DRob did to him.

I know Spurs fans have love for Manu but that's a deal they have to make if they can. So unlikely another Tim/DRob comes in the lotto - especially with top collegiate players staying only a year or 2.

---

LOL... Amare is damaged goods... not a player to build around, IMO.

We will get to the point where we need to rebuild... that time is not now though...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

The Spurs better get a damn good return if they trade Manu. If they don't, the championship door would be closed forever. Manu may just be a shadow of his former self but the way he fits into this team and the role he takes is almost impossible to be replicated. Praying that Manu is healthy and hot for the playoffs equates to better championship odds than any other possible scenario I've seen discussed.

To me, trading Manu (or letting him walk) would mean that the Spurs have to tear down their system and start again. It's more than just about adding talent to replace talent.

---

Agree 100%. Run with what you got. best shot is bettering the play of those in the system now. Regardless of the turnovers or shooting percentage there is still nobody on the Spurs and few in the league that I feel more comfortable with for an end of game play than Manu.

Al Jefferson > Amare

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flux451

i am starting to think that it won't be the spurs decision, but manu's.

He is obviously playing with people that aren't ready for him, ie passing, playmaking. Just as sad as it is to see tim playing with missing pieces around him, you can say the same for manu. He isn't the same as before, but he is still playing at a high level.

---

+1

Manu should have been traded the summer after the 2007 season. Coming back with that same team the following year was a big mistake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ulosturedge

Pretty much what timvp said. It's not worth trading Manu unless you get someone real talent for him. His championship experience, his competitive nature, bbIQ, his knowledge of the system, and all the intangible things he does on the court are something that aren't easily replaced.

I think it's kind of bullshit that for some reason we think Manu deserves to be in the hotseat. What about RJ? What about McDyess? And Tony? We knew Manu was going into the latter part of his career like Duncan. That's the whole reason why the FO went after RJ, but wtf has he done for us..we weren't suppose to need Manu to score 20+ a night. I'm still trying to figure out what we got in McDyess also. Why were we going after this guy so hard again? And Tony is a blackhole out there if he isn't scoring. He can't pass the ball and he can't play defense.

Now I can't even figure out why we are talking about Manu again.. scoring isn't our problem. We have plenty of people who can score. We need people who can make an impact on the defensive end. Manu is doing exactly what he needs to do on this team. If the players we acquired came in and did exactly what we were expecting of them we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

---

Problem is Manu is going to want a nice payday soon and the spurs may not want to honor it so this is a great way out for them to avoid the situation.

At the end of a close game, when we need a clutch shooter on the floor or at the FT line, I'd still go with Manu, anytime, everytime.

He still brings energy to whatever group he is on the floor with. He has really missed the presence of Oberto this, year I think. Not that I think we should have kept Oberto...he was not a good enough player to keep, but he and Manu had phenomenal chemistry on the court, that is not there with anyone else.

I wouldn't trade Manu...but I think he's gonna trade us. You can see his frustration almost every night.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

The Spurs better get a damn good return if they trade Manu. If they don't, the championship door would be closed forever. Manu may just be a shadow of his former self but the way he fits into this team and the role he takes is almost impossible to be replicated. Praying that Manu is healthy and hot for the playoffs equates to better championship odds than any other possible scenario I've seen discussed.

To me, trading Manu (or letting him walk) would mean that the Spurs have to tear down their system and start again. It's more than just about adding talent to replace talent.

---

The championship window is closed with the roster as it is now. Trying to win with Manu and a weak frontline won't get it done anymore with the powers in the west like the Lakers who have too much size for the spurs.

A move needs to be made and Manu has enough trade value to land an impact big.

Manu has to stay. Pop and RC are smoking too much weed. He is the heart and soul of this team. if he is gone then we have no chance what so ever. At this point I would trade RJ for anyone.

Manu as great as he is was not as fun to watch as Gervin my all time favorite player, and if George can get traded................. well you know the rest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dbestpro

Manu as great as he is was not as fun to watch as Gervin my all time favorite player, and if George can get traded................. well you know the rest.

---

So true..:(

I feel very bad about even having this manu talk.He gives spurs his everything.......... i think the hole season has been bad. i mean if we are getting ass kicked by the Bulls(and many others) why do we keep playing TP if the guy is injured?? why? i think thats bad coaching, a healthie TP is part of what we need in order to get Wins. and about manu as i just said is not his fault but will have to wait and see what the BIG shots at the Spurs FO have to say...Manu for Amare brakes me, is Amare going to stay after this year?? are we going to be able to pay him the MAX contract? we all know he Amare is expecting for that. what the hell is going to happen with our sg spot? justt sooo many questions, well the season has been about questions....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dbestpro

Manu as great as he is was not as fun to watch as Gervin my all time favorite player, and if George can get traded................. well you know the rest.

---

and the trade of George Gervin was a big mistake

Manu is still a game changer and a vital cog in any championship aspirations this team has.

You don't get rid of Manu.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

Manu is still a game changer and a vital cog in any championship aspirations this team has.

You don't get rid of Manu.

---

You do if it gets you an all star big.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mikesatx

Agree 100%. Run with what you got. best shot is bettering the play of those in the system now. Regardless of the turnovers or shooting percentage there is still nobody on the Spurs and few in the league that I feel more comfortable with for an end of game play than Manu.

---

timvp wrote something very coherent indeed. In adition to your statement, I love to see that Manu dint have a single TO last night :toast

PS: and a very nice steal to stop Hawk`s momentum.

Manu should retire...

as a Spur.

Worst case scenario
1. GNob gets hurt again and is unable to make the playoffs. We get both no play from him nor a thing in return.
2. GNob plays but we get beat in the 1st round 4-1 playing Poppycock Ball with Mike FinleyBonner at the PF. We get nothing in return for being owned again in the playoffs.

Best case scenario
1. Manu stays and we title. (dream).
2. We trade his expiring for a good player.
Sadly this is the probably the best option.