Grumpy Manu and Hope For a Better Team

Have you guys noticed how frustrated, short-tempered, and generally unhappy Manu looks this year?

You should, since we're all frustrated with the lack of defense, cohesion, and overall success. Some people are so upset that they can't think straight and start coming up with crazy ideas like,

"The Spurs don't care about winning. That must be the reason we lost tonight."

"Coach Popovich forgot that the point of the game is to score more points than the opponent. He turned gay a couple years ago and now thinks the role of the coach is to give playing time only to players that the fans hate! That is the reason we are not #1 in the West!"

Yeah, sounds stupid, right? ...
.. you MUST have noticed the frustration in the players' body language. I've seen it in everyone. There's no way you can really think that the players don't want to win. And even though we're mid-season I think we should be "comforted" by the thought that the team simply still is not even 80% comfortable with itself yet. That means that even though it may seem really late, there's a chance of this roster working itself out to be a dynamic, deep team that makes a good run at the title.
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I'd like to start a conversation about team chemistry being the factor keeping us in 5th/6th place vs 2nd/3rd. I say there's a chance to make a late run starting now at the top spots in the conference. Look at how the team plays when the big 3 are playing balls-to-the-wall. Timmy really took the team to a higher level of intensity tonight. Manu's done it before, remember the OKC game? He shot terribly but still put 110% on the floor and it got RJ to let 'em hang to hit the game winner. Manu's passing has gotten the team running and gelling.

When I think of how Tim/Manu influence the new blood to step it up I have hope for a turnaround to elite status. Maybe it's too late to be a high seed in the playoffs but so what, if we're the best team every round it won't matter who we face when. How exciting would it be to a big underdog making shit happen and put into a conversation with the '95 Rockets for the low seed-champions?!?!
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I still see the veteran Spurs frustrated that they can't run the old plays like the old days. There's too many new players that don't know each other telepathically like there used to be. Since they still aren't uncomfortable I can think to myself, "well at least the losses aren't because they aren't talented enough to win. They have the talent. I'll just have to wait for what seems like an eternity for this roster to finally work."

I really see the frustration in Manu. He slams the ball when he plays sloppily(loses the ball out of bounds, can't get to the rim without the ball getting slapped away). He punches the air when he can't get a foul call. I've also noticed him get short with teammates who apparently aren't running the plays right. Seems like he really doesn't like the way George looks for him when at point, or the way he runs without the ball, or spaces the floor because I see Manu run to George when a time-out is called to yell at him and wave his arms like, "you were supposed to go like this ________ but you didn't! come on man! run the pattern!"

I notice Manu chewing out George more than anyone else. Unfortunately I haven't gone back to see the plays he is pissed about but I'm making an educated guess that it's about things I mentioned just before. ..I'm basing that on the fact that I've seen plenty of Manu turnovers where he threw a no-look or out-of-this-world pass to Blair, Dice, RJ, etc that would have been an AWESOME highlight worthy assist but ended up a steal or out of bounds because the guy receiving it didn't know it was coming or where it was going. Even at mid-season Manu hasn't figured these guys out. Manu apparently still hasn't figured George out and this is George's second year.
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If someone has some answers about the Manu/George thing, by all means please add it to the thread.
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I hope we can think about this stuff a little before we reply.
Maybe we can be positive and stick through it for one more chance to turn the season around. There's gonna be answers found from the most serious questions we've been asking all season. Like how worrysome Manu's turnovers were early this season before anyone considered the reason. We're seeing him develop with the new team. Hopefully we'll get the answers for what Pop has been doing with rotations and game plans.

I did noticed his very hard fouls on players going in for a dunk. Also did you guys see it when Hill and Manu were jawing at each other at the end of a quarter?

Manu is fine...the coach is fine...the players are fine...the team will be fine....GO SPURS GO!

Manu is more frustrated with himself than anybody else, and I think his shooting slump has a lot to do with it. I clearly remember him screaming "La concha de su madre" and fist pumping after hitting a three pointer either last night or against Chicago.
If you add that he hasn't been able to finish or get calls when driving to the rim, then there's really not much more to add.
I've seen Timmy put his head down after a boneheaded defensive lapse by a teammate more than once this season. It's just been the theme of the season.
At the end of the day, guys like Tim, Manu and Tony are competitors first, and what hurts them more than anything is losing. So, winning will go a long ways towards calming tempers and what not.

If Manu is pissed and he is yelling at Hill or whatever and they play like this than I want him to be grumpy and yelling at his teammates every game. They showed they still have a sack last night against a really good team. They need to bring that sense of urgency to the rest of this homestand so it can carry over to the Rodeo Road Trip. If that happens and they have a successful road trip, look out. Just keep up the defensive intensity...that is the key. GO SPURS GO!

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Originally Posted by Chomag

I did noticed his very hard fouls on players going in for a dunk. Also did you guys see it when Hill and Manu were jawing at each other at the end of a quarter?

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I did, it seemed he was upset that Ghill didnt pass him the ball on that last play of the quarter and instead passed to Timmay in a bad spot. After he jawed him for a few seconds Ghill just threw his arms up in the air like wtf?

Officiating has been calling just 30% of the fouls committed to him that also contributes to the cause... he is getting NO RESPECT from the referees so far... NONE

and on a side note GHill should just suck it up and STFU it's fucking Manu Ginobili yelling at you rook

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Originally Posted by urunobili

and on a side note GHill should just suck it up and STFU it's fucking Manu Ginobili yelling at you rook

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Well, technically, George Hill is not a rookie.
However, Manu is a veteran and knows the system. It is part of his job to get in another player's jock if they screw up. In an end of quarter situation, they ball should've been in Manu's hands.
And, if he seems a little extra crabby about it . . . somebody should be.

Yeah I noticed the same thing, but since no one mentioned it I thought it was just me.

yes. I have noticed it and I think it fits in with the conclusion that Manu is leaving after this year to go to a team that has more 'fire in the belly' on a consistent basis than the spurs have had after getting their 4th championship. Manu is the hardest competitor on the team, bar none, including Timmy. Last night was the first time I have seen Tim work this SMART against another team in a long time. If Tim wants to keep 'bringing it' like he did last night, he and Manu can provide a lot of leadership, and this team needs it.

I don't think that seeing players fuss at each other is a good sign. I think it refelcts bad chemistry. Finley fusses at people a lot, but I don't think any player likes to be the recipient of a public dressing down by a teammate, no matter who it is.

Manu can't hit a shot to save his life right now (or his place in the spurs next year), so it's no wonder he's frustrated

WTF u guys talking about? it's same old manu to me. Yeah playing with a little more fire but that's a good thing

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Manu is more frustrated with himself than anybody else, and I think his shooting slump has a lot to do with it. I clearly remember him screaming "La concha de su madre" and fist pumping after hitting a three pointer either last night or against Chicago.
If you add that he hasn't been able to finish or get calls when driving to the rim, then there's really not much more to add.
I've seen Timmy put his head down after a boneheaded defensive lapse by a teammate more than once this season. It's just been the theme of the season.
At the end of the day, guys like Tim, Manu and Tony are competitors first, and what hurts them more than anything is losing. So, winning will go a long ways towards calming tempers and what not.

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I agree with this assessment. There's nothing more frustrating as a player to be losing and you can seem to get the ball to fall or even make a simply lay-up.

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

Well, technically, George Hill is not a rookie.
However, Manu is a veteran and knows the system. It is part of his job to get in another player's jock if they screw up. In an end of quarter situation, they ball should've been in Manu's hands.
And, if he seems a little extra crabby about it . . . somebody should be.

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I was at the game last night and noticed it. But him and hill are cool, real cool. I think GHill/ Manu have a high respect for eachother. I think Manu feels like Pop felt about Tony when he was new in the league. He sees potential and wants hill to use it to the full and be disciplined in his play as well as have a feel for what the right play/wrong play is. After GHIll hit a jumper and got that alley-hoop Manu gave him a high-five on their way back to the bench. I really think that Manu realizes Bruce is gone and that Hill's play on D and O is essential to the Spurs being successful. Parker wont look for guys on cuts and little things like that ( the kinda stuff you have to have a 6th sense for) I think he wants hill to make sure that those habits get corrected early in his career so that he wont turn into TP when it comes to the team game. Hill/Blair asside from Tim are probably his favorite teammates. Just listen to the way he talks about Hill especially during interviews.

^^^ This... Manu is all the time looking for both on Offense and gives up his own layups to make Hill fill up his boxscore and give him more confidence...

I think Manu enjoys playing with Hill alot more than TP. Hill plays D' and has a little more to his game than Parker. When Parker is on the Floor then Manu has to guard the teams best perimeter player. When Hill is on the floor Manu can just use his energy to disrupt and make plays cause Hill has the daunting task of being defensive specialist. Hill also gives Manu more room/athleticism/simplicity to work with. Hill can hit the 3, Parker cant hit any 3's (for the most part). Hill defend better cause of his athleticism, Parker rarely has to guard someone thats really good ( usually its Hills assignment) and Hill will keep the Ball moving if he doesnt have a good shot, Parker dribbles alot. In last nights game during the 3rd quarter RJ had a bibby on him in the post and Parker instead opted to take his man off the dribble and get into the lane. From what I remember nothing good came of that. Same play in the 4th quarter, Hill decided to give it to RJ in the post against bibby. Result = an immediate double team which lead to Tim flashing to basket, being fouled and getting free throws which could've easily been a 3pt play for him. Manu wants to keep Hill from slipping into an score-only mode that Parker has developed over the years, thats why he is on him at every turn and corner.

Uh . . . Yeah, I agree. I'm not sure why you are responding to me without providing a counter-point. If you miscontrued what I said, I was responding to the bridge jumpers who are reading too much into Manu "coaching" another player.
If you've never seen this before or think that Manu was too intense, I guess you haven't been a Spurs fan too long. If you think that was bad you should have seen Mario Elie.

I don't think George Hill is in any danger of turning into Tony Parker, by the way.

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

Uh . . . Yeah, I agree. I'm not sure why you are responding to me without providing a counter-point. If you miscontrued what I said, I was responding to the bridge jumpers who are reading too much into Manu "coaching" another player.
If you've never seen this before or think that Manu was too intense, I guess you haven't been a Spurs fan too long. If you think that was bad you should have seen Mario Elie.

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Nah, I agree with you 100% actually. My point was more on the line of how Manu feels about Hill.

Oh and Mario Elie was rough, he even told big Dave a few things.

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

Nah, I agree with you 100% actually. My point was more on the line of how Manu feels about Hill.

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Absolutely. I find it really annoying that some posters here are taking Manu coaching Hill as a sign of his unhappiness with being a Spur. It's absurd.

Manu on facebook: "I think that somebody shrank the rims & I wasn't notified"

:lol

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

Absolutely. I find it really annoying that some posters here are taking Manu coaching Hill as a sign of his unhappiness with being a Spur. It's absurd.

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:tu

+10000000

Manu wants the team to win. Enough said.

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Originally Posted by [email protected]

Manu is fine...the coach is fine...the players are fine...the team will be fine....GO SPURS GO!

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Wrong.

This team should be angry. Kudos to Manu for speaking up. Hill can take the criticism.

Hill and Tim are the only two players who have brought it every night. Manu has played hard but has had several bad games. I cannot imagine that they were jawing over anything but maybe a missed play. That is nothing but passion for the game, all great players do it.

I think it's a little bit of everything coming into play. A lot of it coming from frustration on how he's playing and how his game is not working, some of it from how the team is playing, and the stress and pressure knowing that he's either on the trading block (he's probably heard about it for a while now) or having to fight for a job whether it's somewhere else or back with the Spurs. He hasn't only been angry on the court but even in his articles he seems a little edgy. Oh and then having a pregnant wife at home too.

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

Oh and Mario Elie was rough, he even told big Dave a few things.

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Man, I remember Elie's on-court "coaching." Made Manu's talk with Hill look like a lullaby!

It's always better for players to realize that they hold each other accountable as much as if not more than the coach.

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

I think Manu enjoys playing with Hill alot more than TP. Hill plays D' and has a little more to his game than Parker. When Parker is on the Floor then Manu has to guard the teams best perimeter player. When Hill is on the floor Manu can just use his energy to disrupt and make plays cause Hill has the daunting task of being defensive specialist. Hill also gives Manu more room/athleticism/simplicity to work with. Hill can hit the 3, Parker cant hit any 3's (for the most part). Hill defend better cause of his athleticism, Parker rarely has to guard someone thats really good ( usually its Hills assignment) and Hill will keep the Ball moving if he doesnt have a good shot, Parker dribbles alot. In last nights game during the 3rd quarter RJ had a bibby on him in the post and Parker instead opted to take his man off the dribble and get into the lane. From what I remember nothing good came of that. Same play in the 4th quarter, Hill decided to give it to RJ in the post against bibby. Result = an immediate double team which lead to Tim flashing to basket, being fouled and getting free throws which could've easily been a 3pt play for him. Manu wants to keep Hill from slipping into an score-only mode that Parker has developed over the years, thats why he is on him at every turn and corner.

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I agree with this completely

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

I was at the game last night and noticed it. But him and hill are cool, real cool. I think GHill/ Manu have a high respect for eachother. I think Manu feels like Pop felt about Tony when he was new in the league. He sees potential and wants hill to use it to the full and be disciplined in his play as well as have a feel for what the right play/wrong play is. After GHIll hit a jumper and got that alley-hoop Manu gave him a high-five on their way back to the bench. I really think that Manu realizes Bruce is gone and that Hill's play on D and O is essential to the Spurs being successful. Parker wont look for guys on cuts and little things like that ( the kinda stuff you have to have a 6th sense for) I think he wants hill to make sure that those habits get corrected early in his career so that he wont turn into TP when it comes to the team game. Hill/Blair asside from Tim are probably his favorite teammates. Just listen to the way he talks about Hill especially during interviews.

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Sounds like a TP's hater. Anyway, that is your assumption. From what I heard from Manu in his last practice interview, he stated that both he and TP have to be more vocal and sometime have to be more of the leadership on the court. That why he yells in the court sometimes. Not sure if TP does the same though?

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Originally Posted by ThaiFanofSpurs

Sounds like a TP's hater. Anyway, that is your assumption. From what I heard from Manu in his last practice interview, he stated that both he and TP have to be more vocal and sometime have to be more of the leadership on the court. That why he yells in the court sometimes. Not sure if TP does the same though?

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TP is not as vocal and really never has been. Its not really his thing. I also dont see how my post above which dealt primarily with Manu/Hill makes me a TP hater.

The more pissed Manu goes into the playoffs the better.

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Originally Posted by EmptyMan

The more pissed Manu goes into the playoffs the better.

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Provided he doesnt get too pissed, try too hard and get hurt before the playoffs.

Everyone is aware that he has twins to deal with now right? I'm thinking that this is affecting his play quite a bit. I speak from experience. It's a really difficult adjustment, especially during the first year of their lives. He's going through hell right now I'm sure.

Manu wants others to play with the same intensity, determination and heart he brings to every game.

Skills are one thing. Desire and mental fortitude can many times be the determinating factor in winning or losing. Especially at this level of play when most of the players have "The Skills" but not all have the fortitude.

Sometimes it takes a little "coaxing" to get that out of your teammates and yourself.

good point. Manu is leading by example, but he should also lead by slapping mofos on the back of their head (RJ)