The Signs Point to Manu Going Off

Manu Ginobili is known for his fourth quarter and playoff time playmaking. Sure, he's blown some games due to a dumb mistake, he's even blown a series at one point. However, he's also been compared to Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan in the times of clutch. He's the player people use to say they'd take number one for a game winning shot. Then el contusión happened and the battering his body took aged him more than some others. Still, this year he's been pretty healthy... a bit slower, but still the Manu we know. The one thing that's been lacking has been his shot... whether its finishing at the rim or just making a jumpshot, something's been off. Well, just like Manu becomes a beast when someone gives him a hard hit, I think the trade talk and the general lack of respect he's been receiving is about to be the equivalent of a fourth quarter slap in the face.

Here are the signs that Manu is about to go off:

- The Spurs championship goal requires that he do so. Tim can't do it all on his own and Parker's going to be slower for the rest of this season. Manu has to be the other guy.

- Nobody's respecting Obi Wan Ginobili. The refs aren't respecting him, the fans aren't respecting him (trade Manu for Stoudemire???), and the organization isn't respecting him in his mind. He's played the game in an "everybody else comes first" mode since he came in the NBA... maybe he's ready to jettison that approach if it improves his chances of a trophy.

- Contract year: the team hasn't extended his contract like he wanted, and Manu's going to have to earn himself the money on a contract from all the potential teams out there who might want him. Time to end the "he's an aging SG talk."

- He might be a half step slower, but its the shot that is really keeping him from making it. An angry Manu usually finds his shot again. A clutch Manu usually finds his shots again. Both of those are now.

- Tony Parker is down. It might be a bit taboo, but we all really know that Parker and Ginobili generally lack some level of synergy... on the court, off the court, they just don't jive like some others. Manu's going to make this team his own for a bit. If he's leaving San Antone, he's going to make everyone remember what they lost.

- It only takes one game for him to find that rhythm again. Just so happens he's probably going to get more minutes and much greater shooting opportunities for a while. We'll see what happens.

- You talk about trading Manu for somebody else, and you can be guaranteed he's pissed off. Real pissed off.

If all these things together don't kick start Manu into going nuts on the court in the next few games, he's over the hill and on the way down. If the Manu who can't be stopped in the last 5:00 of a 4th quarter is still in there somewhere... then God help the other teams the Spurs are going to play in the next few. Time to find out if Manu can still be Manu.

BL

Manu Ginobili
I think that somebody shrank the rims & I wasn't notified // Estoy empezando a pensar que la NBA achicó los aros y no me avisaron nada.2 hours ago

- From his Facebook

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Originally Posted by blue-lightning

manu ginobili is known for his fourth quarter and playoff time playmaking. Sure, he's blown some games due to a dumb mistake, he's even blown a series at one point. However, he's also been compared to kobe bryant and michael jordan in the times of clutch. He's the player people use to say they'd take number one for a game winning shot. Then el contusión happened and the battering his body took aged him more than some others. Still, this year he's been pretty healthy... A bit slower, but still the manu we know. The one thing that's been lacking has been his shot... Whether its finishing at the rim or just making a jumpshot, something's been off. Well, just like manu becomes a beast when someone gives him a hard hit, i think the trade talk and the general lack of respect he's been receiving is about to be the equivalent of a fourth quarter slap in the face.

Here are the signs that manu is about to go off:

- the spurs championship goal requires that he do so. Tim can't do it all on his own and parker's going to be slower for the rest of this season. Manu has to be the other guy.

- nobody's respecting obi wan ginobili. The refs aren't respecting him, the fans aren't respecting him (trade manu for stoudemire???), and the organization isn't respecting him in his mind. He's played the game in an "everybody else comes first" mode since he came in the nba... Maybe he's ready to jettison that approach if it improves his chances of a trophy.

- contract year: The team hasn't extended his contract like he wanted, and manu's going to have to earn himself the money on a contract from all the potential teams out there who might want him. Time to end the "he's an aging sg talk."

- he might be a half step slower, but its the shot that is really keeping him from making it. An angry manu usually finds his shot again. A clutch manu usually finds his shots again. Both of those are now.

- tony parker is down. It might be a bit taboo, but we all really know that parker and ginobili generally lack some level of synergy... On the court, off the court, they just don't jive like some others. Manu's going to make this team his own for a bit. If he's leaving san antone, he's going to make everyone remember what they lost.

- it only takes one game for him to find that rhythm again. Just so happens he's probably going to get more minutes and much greater shooting opportunities for a while. We'll see what happens.

- you talk about trading manu for somebody else, and you can be guaranteed he's pissed off. Real pissed off.

If all these things together don't kick start manu into going nuts on the court in the next few games, he's over the hill and on the way down. If the manu who can't be stopped in the last 5:00 of a 4th quarter is still in there somewhere... Then god help the other teams the spurs are going to play in the next few. Time to find out if manu can still be manu.

Bl

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^^^^^this

Agreed. Aside from his shot, and a few went in and out last night, he is playing balls out. He is sneaking up for steals on big men, he is contesting shots of players others are guarding and hitting the boards hard. He is really exerting himself. If...his shot returns...it will be something. He is definitely playing with a chip on his shoulder.

This thread got me HYPED!!!!

dude is giving 120% every night. You gotta be an idiot not to notice that.

Manu has blown more then just one series, remember 04 when he had defending Derek Fisher and then Derek Fisher scored over Manu in 0.4 Seconds how about 06 when he made the worse foul of his life sending Dirk to the line to go to over time and losing the series, those are two title opportunities!!

Yeah, because that shot by Fisher hasn't ever been called a "miracle shot." Never.

im not as optimistic. Been waiting all season for ginobili's shot to return, it just might never happen. His mid range jumpers are all clanking and is now shooting below 40 percent.

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Originally Posted by in2deep

dude is giving 120% every night. You gotta be an idiot not to notice that.

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+1000000000000000

Hey the thread got me excited and I am in total agreement. A pissed Manu is a dangerous Manu. He wants to win and the ball is his and he is taking it home! (Until Blair showed up...) I can definitely see Ginobli destroying a team in the near future.

Hard to figure why the shots aren't falling. A shooter's eye is usually the last thing to go and he was deadly with that step back 3. That shot doesn't require much physicality. So it could come back with sufficient playing time to make sure he's not winded and has the practice.

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Originally Posted by DynastySpurs210

Manu has blown more then just one series, remember 04 when he had defending Derek Fisher and then Derek Fisher scored over Manu in 0.4 Seconds how about 06 when he made the worse foul of his life sending Dirk to the line to go to over time and losing the series, those are two title opportunities!!

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The Fisher shot was NOT Manu's fault. It was just a miracle.

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Originally Posted by DynastySpurs210

Manu has blown more then just one series, remember 04 when he had defending Derek Fisher and then Derek Fisher scored over Manu in 0.4 Seconds how about 06 when he made the worse foul of his life sending Dirk to the line to go to over time and losing the series, those are two title opportunities!!

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Fucking retard troll. Manu was all over Fisher on that shot; sometimes you just gotta prop a guy for making a ridiculous shot.

i still can not undestand why anyone would want amare for manu.

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Originally Posted by DynastySpurs210

Manu has blown more then just one series, remember 04 when he had defending Derek Fisher and then Derek Fisher scored over Manu in 0.4 Seconds how about 06 when he made the worse foul of his life sending Dirk to the line to go to over time and losing the series, those are two title opportunities!!

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I'm tired of that play against the Mavs.We were up by 3.Who made that 3? So he put us up by 3 and his fault on Dirk gives to the Mavs only 1 point.At the end without Manu we had lost by 2 anyway.

About 0.4 if you think that it was Manu's fault then it seems that you only play basketball in the NBA Live

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Originally Posted by DynastySpurs210

Manu has blown more then just one series, remember 04 when he had defending Derek Fisher and then Derek Fisher scored over Manu in 0.4 Seconds how about 06 when he made the worse foul of his life sending Dirk to the line to go to over time and losing the series, those are two title opportunities!!

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First of all, we are not in those games without Manu. As for the foul on Dirk, compared to Dirk's hard and admitted foul on Tim seconds later, it was a completely bad call. As for the Derek shot, it was a lucky well contested shot that is impossible to get off in 0.4 seconds. I'm sure we've had our share of calls in our favor over the years.
Indeed, Manu is prime to be going off the remainder of the season. He hasn't exactly been a slacker so far. The games I've seen, in person especially, he has obvious been the most energetic player on the floor....with or without big scoring.

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Originally Posted by DynastySpurs210

Manu has blown more then just one series, remember 04 when he had defending Derek Fisher and then Derek Fisher scored over Manu in 0.4

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Yeh, Manu lost that series right there......:rollin:rollin

Meh, I disagree with just about the whole opening post. Ginobili isn't the type of player that needs motivation. He's already playing as hard as possible. He's not going somehow play harder due to being in a contract year or hearing trade rumors or because he feels disrespected or whatever. That's not how Ginobili is programmed. He's already giving it his all.

As for Ginobili not getting along with Parker "on the court or off the court", I don't agree with that either. Off the court, Ginobili might be closer to TP than anyone on the team right now. On the court, Ginobili and TP have played well together. They've been connecting at a high level over the last month or so.

Ginobili is already playing a lot of minutes and has been getting up plenty of shots lately (13+ shots in the last four games). With Parker out, perhaps Ginobili will get enough touches to work himself out of his shooting funk ... but that's about all you can hope for. Most of his problems are related to just not able to physically beat his man in one-on-one situations. That doesn't have anything to do with Parker or trying harder; it's a physical limitation.

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Originally Posted by OP

- he might be a half step slower, but its the shot that is really keeping him from making it. An angry manu usually finds his shot again. A clutch manu usually finds his shots again. Both of those are now.

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Not trying to be negative, but he HAS lost half a step (no maybe about it), and the reason he's shooting so poorly, both at the rim and jumpers, is that his legs have clearly lost a good deal of their explosion.

Can he compensate for this? Sure. He has already changed his game to accommodate it to some extent by increasing his passing with spectacular results. However, I don't think he's going to go on a scoring tear like he did in carrying the team last season and the season before when TP was out because he just doesn't have that in his body any more, even if his mind might will it. The NBA is more athletic than it has ever been while Manu is going in the opposite direction unfortunately.

He'll just keep doing what he has been doing lately, hopefully with a further adjustment to his shot-taking to account for the lack of spring, and that's fine with me.

I agree he does not need added motivation because he is someone who gives it everything all the time. But normally he does it within the system. He is now venturing outside the system, going for more steals and blocks. It seems as if he has decided to do whatever is necessary to win because others (whether because they are new or not) are not doing their job. So he is trying to do his job and theirs. Hard to sustain.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Meh, I disagree with just about the whole opening post. Ginobili isn't the type of player that needs motivation. He's already playing as hard as possible. He's not going somehow play harder due to being in a contract year or hearing trade rumors or because he feels disrespected or whatever. That's not how Ginobili is programmed. He's already giving it his all.

As for Ginobili not getting along with Parker "on the court or off the court", I don't agree with that either. Off the court, Ginobili might be closer to TP than anyone on the team right now. On the court, Ginobili and TP have played well together. They've been connecting at a high level over the last month or so.

Ginobili is already playing a lot of minutes and has been getting up plenty of shots lately (13+ shots in the last four games). With Parker out, perhaps Ginobili will get enough touches to work himself out of his shooting funk ... but that's about all you can hope for. Most of his problems are related to just not able to physically beat his man in one-on-one situations. That doesn't have anything to do with Parker or trying harder; it's a physical limitation.

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party pooper :hat

Manu was never a springy shooter... You know, a guy that needed much lift at all to take a shot. He's just missing everything right now and that's just that. Streaky shooters go through this stuff, like Mason a the end of last season... I know he's gonna come out of this funk eventually. I'm just glad it's happening now and not during the postseason...

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Originally Posted by DynastySpurs210

Manu has blown more then just one series, remember 04 when he had defending Derek Fisher and then Derek Fisher scored over Manu in 0.4 Seconds how about 06 when he made the worse foul of his life sending Dirk to the line to go to over time and losing the series, those are two title opportunities!!

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manu's clutchness, as his passing skills lately, has been overrated on this board (which doesn't mean he's not great), the stats (like ratio assists/bad passes or clutch stats from 82games.com are rather clear about that) that's just the way it is with manu here, like the OP just did.

Still, i just find it dumb to blame him for the loss against the mavs. that was a damn bad foul, but to consider he lost the serie alone on this only foul whereas he was good otherwise is just unfair.

And for the 0.4 shot, manu couldn't have defended better on Fischer.

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Originally Posted by Blue-Lightning

- Tony Parker is down. It might be a bit taboo, but we all really know that Parker and Ginobili generally lack some level of synergy... on the court, off the court, they just don't jive like some others. Manu's going to make this team his own for a bit. If he's leaving San Antone, he's going to make everyone remember what they lost.

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well, i'd take the synergy that brought us 3 trophies any day.

Oh, and I know for a fact that Manu and Tony are really good friends off the court, including going to music concerts together. The silly idea they're not comes from manufan conspiracy theorists that claimed TP didn't pass Manu the ball more...

lol a shooting slump during the regular season can only mean one thing... Im surprised with timvp's lack of faith that he can all of a sudden turn it on...

and BTW what happened last time Ruff started bashing Manu and going all out saying he was done :lmao

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Oh, and I know for a fact that Manu and Tony are really good friends off the court, including going to music concerts together. The silly idea they're not comes from manufan conspiracy theorists that claimed TP didn't pass Manu the ball more...

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Awful synergy, for sure:

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“Playing with Manu, it’s like playing with my brother.”
—Teammate Tony Parker

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click here to see the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi0WlshTBnc

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Originally Posted by urunobili

lol a shooting slump during the regular season can only mean one thinks... Im surprised with timvp's lack of faith that he can all of a sudden turn it on...

and BTW what happened last time Ruff started bashing Manu and going all out saying he was done :lmao

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That's not fair. I never "bashed" him at all, I love him. And what I actually said back in late November about 5 games into his recovery was that we'd know whether he got his game back by early January, but the early returns looked like he'd lost half a step and some explosion. And he has! But he did get his game back, to some extent at least, and no-one is happier to see that than me.

Don't paint me as a Manu hater, dude, that's not fair... and I HATE being misquoted. :ihit ;)

lol Ruff... last time you went ape shit on him he dropped 36 on the Raptors... then you cooled down... Im glad u came back with this shit... it's a good sign :stirpot:

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Not trying to be negative, but he HAS lost half a step (no maybe about it), and the reason he's shooting so poorly, both at the rim and jumpers, is that his legs have clearly lost a good deal of their explosion.

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Point is ... is it lack of conditioning (coz of not playing all summer and taking it easy, and getting directly into game shape. Also not getting as much touches thru this season (more offense, trying more assists, keeping himself healthy).

ORRRR... something more permanent. And noone knows the answer to this. But we will find out in this second half / PO.

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Originally Posted by anonoftheinternets

Point is ... is it lack of conditioning (coz of not playing all summer and taking it easy, and getting directly into game shape. Also not getting as much touches thru this season (more offense, trying more assists, keeping himself healthy).

ORRRR... something more permanent. And noone knows the answer to this. But we will find out in this second half / PO.

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I disagree. At this point it has nothing to do with conditioning - he's played over 20 games since his injury. That's why I said back in Novemeber that we'd see in January whether he has lost a step or not. Sadly, he's lost his explosion and half a step and that's why he's finding it far more difficult to break down his man than he used to.

I wish he could return to his explosive self, but at this stage that's all it is, wishful thinking.

On the flipside, he's so smart that he's compensating for his lack of explosion with fantastic passing and steal-gambling, timely blocks and rebounds, and the odd 3 (a part of his game he really should concentrate on now given his declining body). Like all true champions, he's finding a way to be effective... the way he is re-tooling his game is even a little MJ-post-baseball-esque. :tu

Manu scoring hasn't been that good but he's doing everrrything else he's racking up assist night out getting his hustle steals and he's grabbing boards he still finds a way to contribute dispite his shooting slumps

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Originally Posted by emanueldavidginobili

Manu scoring hasn't been that good but he's doing everrrything else he's racking up assist night out getting his hustle steals and he's grabbing boards he still finds a way to contribute dispite his shooting slumps

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:toast

Well thought out...looking forward to Sunday's game.

Shooting slump I think he's in.

But last night was evident, he can't get by defenders so he's gonna just have to get more crafty with his shots and drives.

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Originally Posted by EricB

Shooting slump I think he's in.

But last night was evident, he can't get by defenders so he's gonna just have to get more crafty with his shots and drives.

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Thank you for that, Yoda. :lmao

I just want Manu to slow down on the jumpshots. He takes a bit too much and forces them up a lot of the time. It gets real annoying. He doesn't have to take 15 shots a game to contribute, and 5-7 of those shots don't have to be 3-pointers.

I hope he knows that. I always cringe when he just jacks a 3-pointer, even when he does make it.

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Originally Posted by DynastySpurs210

Manu has blown more then just one series, remember 04 when he had defending Derek Fisher and then Derek Fisher scored over Manu in 0.4 Seconds how about 06 when he made the worse foul of his life sending Dirk to the line to go to over time and losing the series, those are two title opportunities!!

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Fisher threw up a prayer and it went it, who could block that there? It was a lucky shot.


The Dirk foul, well if they handled their business instead of getting down 20 it would not come down to that. Oh yeah Manu was a big part of the reason we got back in it and went up three late, remember his three? I bet you don't do you?

LOL at Manu costing us two titles, the Spurs blew a 2-0 lead against LA and it never should have went to that at home (Going down BIG again in a must win game). The Spurs blew those series, not MANU alone or one play a the end.

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Originally Posted by adam8065

People keep forgetting that in 2006 The Spurs missed a shot at the end of regulation. And that foul tied the game, the Spurs lost in Overtime, they had their chances.

Also, Manu was part of the big 20 point comeback, everyone keeps forgetting this!

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Not me! Read above.

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Originally Posted by Sean Cagney

Fisher threw up a prayer and it went it, who could block that there? It was a lucky shot.


The Dirk foul, well if they handled their business instead of getting down 20 it would not come down to that. Oh yeah Manu was a big part of the reason we got back in it and went up three late, remember his three? I bet you don't do you?

LOL at Manu costing us two titles, the Spurs blew a 2-0 lead against LA and it never should have went to that at home (Going down BIG again in a must win game). The Spurs blew those series, not MANU alone or one play a the end.

Not me! Read above.

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Chill Down Mr #1 Fan, i simply said he made us lose those two series, i didnt say any other games after that :wakeup

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Fucking retard troll. Manu was all over Fisher on that shot; sometimes you just gotta prop a guy for making a ridiculous shot.

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you sound angry! "want a cooke"?:p:

I'm not sure if Manu cannot regain some of that missing explosiveness. This past summer was a double-edged sword. He needed to rest to get his leg completely healed but he also needs some serious weight-training to prep not just the legs, but his core and especially his back & shoulder muscles. Muscles that are crucial to explosiveness. You can't jump high without the arms, shoulders, back, & core muscles uncoiling right before the legs kick in.
I feel that as long as he's healthy, he'll be better next year at least, athletically speaking.
He ain't Jamal Mashburn shot by any stretch. I say Jamal because once he had the micro-fracture knee surgery, he'd say he felt good but that his explosiveness is gone so it changed him completely. No longer could he attack, even if he wanted to. Manu can still attack, I just don't know if it'll be a dunk. It's more so a tear drop or finger-roll.
I miss the Manu that attacked 3 Lakers at Staples and dunked on their heads. I was there that night and that was quite a sight!

Oh and DS210...what's a "cooke"? And you're still pathetic :loser

I love Manu!

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Originally Posted by Blue-Lightning

Here are the signs that Manu is about to go off:

- The Spurs championship goal requires that he do so. Tim can't do it all on his own and Parker's going to be slower for the rest of this season. Manu has to be the other guy.

- Nobody's respecting Obi Wan Ginobili. The refs aren't respecting him, the fans aren't respecting him (trade Manu for Stoudemire???), and the organization isn't respecting him in his mind. He's played the game in an "everybody else comes first" mode since he came in the NBA... maybe he's ready to jettison that approach if it improves his chances of a trophy.




- It only takes one game for him to find that rhythm again. Just so happens he's probably going to get more minutes and much greater shooting opportunities for a while. We'll see what happens.


If all these things together don't kick start Manu into going nuts on the court in the next few games, he's over the hill and on the way down. If the Manu who can't be stopped in the last 5:00 of a 4th quarter is still in there somewhere... then God help the other teams the Spurs are going to play in the next few. Time to find out if Manu can still be Manu.

BL

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Here's hoping these aspects do come together . I like the fact that he's looking for his shot more now, while getting to the rack more often. The less we see the 3 the better. The thing about Manu is that he'll adjust and find way to come out on top. The competetiveness in him is just that good.

Disagree about he and Tony not playing well together. Those two's game compliment each other very well.

Manu is trying hard, but he just does not have the lift or explosion on a night to night basis to consistently finish. It is hard for me to watch, but I hold out hope he can elevate his play.

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Originally Posted by DynastySpurs210

Manu has blown more then just one series, remember 04 when he had defending Derek Fisher and then Derek Fisher scored over Manu in 0.4 Seconds how about 06 when he made the worse foul of his life sending Dirk to the line to go to over time and losing the series, those are two title opportunities!!

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this is the kind of stuff that makes me want to kill someone...

how in the world can one single player playing on a team blow an entire series for just one play?

how in the hell is someone supposed to block a shot from an inbound pass with 0.4 secs left in the game? actually.. how is the SHOT supposed to be valid at all????

i hope i dont have to make this even clearer...

another night of sub-40% shooting for manu...

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Originally Posted by vander

another night of sub-40% shooting for manu...

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7 assists... team top alongside Tim... I don't see you complaining that your guy Bonner had no rebounds...

Congrats your team the Lakers won tonight... :toast

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Originally Posted by ElNono

7 assists... team top alongside Tim... I don't see you complaining that your guy Bonner had no rebounds...

Congrats your team the Lakers won tonight... :toast

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Spurs played better when Bonner was off the court too, but Vander will still say he is one of the best players on the team. It was a very good thing that Pop benched Bonner tonight when he showed he could be a hindrance rather than help us get the win.

sorry guys but manu has been in a funk for the last 3 years. injured or not he is playing poor. if we resign him this summer, i think its a move the spurs will regret. with that being said, i think the spurs should let him, bonner and finley walk this summer and use that cash to bring over some of our overseas guys like splitter and nando. hopefully he goes back to europe or retires.

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Originally Posted by ivanfromwestwood

sorry guys but manu has been in a funk for the last 3 years. injured or not he is playing poor. if we resign him this summer, i think its a move the spurs will regret. with that being said, i think the spurs should let him, bonner and finley walk this summer and use that cash to bring over some of our overseas guys like splitter and nando. hopefully he goes back to europe or retires.

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:nope

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Originally Posted by ivanfromwestwood

sorry guys but manu has been in a funk for the last 3 years. injured or not he is playing poor. if we resign him this summer, i think its a move the spurs will regret. with that being said, i think the spurs should let him, bonner and finley walk this summer and use that cash to bring over some of our overseas guys like splitter and nando. hopefully he goes back to europe or retires.

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Sorry, but you are a retard.

Manu was maybe top 2 or 3 SG in the NBA in the 2008 regular season. Even though he got hurt at the start of the playoffs he still had big games until the LA series were he just wasn't able to perform.

And just to add there is no one this summer that the Spurs could get that would be better than Manu. The Spurs simply don't have the cap room to sign anyone that would be better than Manu. Someone would have to take a Ron Artest type contract and that would also leave no money for Splitter.

Manu is playing better and he will be a lot better. He is getting into form.

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Originally Posted by Ice009

Sorry, but you are a retard.

Manu was maybe top 2 or 3 SG in the NBA in the 2008 regular season. Even though he got hurt at the start of the playoffs he still had big games until the LA series were he just wasn't able to perform.

And just to add there is no one this summer that the Spurs could get that would be better than Manu. The Spurs simply don't have the cap room to sign anyone that would be better than Manu. Someone would have to take a Ron Artest type contract and that would also leave no money for Splitter.

Manu is playing better and he will be a lot better. He is getting into form.

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you're the fucking retard. quit sucking his cawk. in case you havent noticed, manu has never played a full season due to injuries. i dont expect anything less in the future. he was injured coming to the spurs with a bad ankle in 2002 WC's and has ankle problems ever since. i love manu but that wont make me turn a blind eye to the fact that he is not the manu of old. now he is just the old manu!

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Originally Posted by ivanfromwestwood

sorry guys but manu has been in a funk for the last 3 years. injured or not he is playing poor. if we resign him this summer, i think its a move the spurs will regret. with that being said, i think the spurs should let him, bonner and finley walk this summer and use that cash to bring over some of our overseas guys like splitter and nando. hopefully he goes back to europe or retires.

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Just becuse Manu is not shooting well it doesn't mean he is not helping the team, just by him on the court makes the team better and makes the team run smoother.

He is not taking too many shoots because he's making the extra pass so the new guys in the team can get their confidence and have a feel how he plays and be ready for him.

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Originally Posted by ivanfromwestwood

you're the fucking retard. quit sucking his cawk. in case you havent noticed, manu has never played a full season due to injuries. i dont expect anything less in the future. he was injured coming to the spurs with a bad ankle in 2002 WC's and has ankle problems ever since. i love manu but that wont make me turn a blind eye to the fact that he is not the manu of old. now he is just the old manu!

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Who is your replacement if the Spurs let Manu walk for nothing?

Let's just say the MLE is going to Splitter like rumored who are you going to sign for the vet minimum to replace Manu with?. Spurs don't have the cap space to sign a Manu caliber player.

You want Keith Bogans starting and then having a worse player sub in for Bogans because that is what we might get for vet minimum money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ice009

Who is your replacement if the Spurs let Manu walk for nothing?

Who are you going to sign for the vet minimum to replace him if the MLE is going to Splitter. Spurs don't have the cap space to sign a Manu caliber player.
.

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malik hairston. maybe nando de colo, if he signs for the vet min, im all for it

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Originally Posted by ivanfromwestwood

malik hairston. maybe nando de colo, if he signs for the vet min, im all for it

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Neither of those players are better than Manu. So what is the point of letting Manu walk then?

Do you want to start rebuilding? Is that what you are saying?

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Originally Posted by Ice009

Neither of those players are better than Manu. So what is the point of letting Manu walk then?

Do you want to start rebuilding? Is that what you are saying?

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yes but only at his position. what are we to do? give him a nice contract and watch him grow older and more injury prone. he is past his prime and you know it. he will continue to decline. btw, there will never be a replacement for manu but some young legs and someone with something to prove will be better than a broken down manu.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ivanfromwestwood

yes but only at his position. what are we to do? give him a nice contract and watch him grow older and more injury prone. he is past his prime and you know it. he will continue to decline. btw, there will never be a replacement for manu but some young legs and someone with something to prove will be better than a broken down manu.

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You do a good job of pointing out what you feel to be his shortcomings, but you do a "turrible" job of giving us a replacement to talk about it. AS it stands, neither of the 2 players you pointed out have shown that they can even approach the levels Manu is giving today. And they have no shot of giving the Spurs Manu version 03 to 07 in the next 2 seasons, so where do you go? Does the team as a whole waste what's left on Tim's career developing "your" young players or do you take the approach that the Big 3 is still relevant even though with age and injuries they're not as dominant?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ivanfromwestwood

yes but only at his position. what are we to do? give him a nice contract and watch him grow older and more injury prone. he is past his prime and you know it. he will continue to decline. btw, there will never be a replacement for manu but some young legs and someone with something to prove will be better than a broken down manu.

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Well first the Spurs probably won't offer him a huge amount of money and second if the Spurs think that is the case they should be looking to trade him this season so they can get a player back. Letting him go for nothing is not a smart move at all.

I should also point out that neither of those two players are better than the current Manu, in fact they are a pretty big drop off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ice009

Well first the Spurs probably won't offer him a huge amount of money and second if the Spurs think that is the case they should be looking to trade him this season so they can get a player back. Letting him go for nothing is not a smart move at all.

I should also point out that neither of those two players are better than the current Manu, in fact they are a pretty big drop off.

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look guys i love manu as much as the next guy but at what point do we part ways? like i said if its a small contract, great and if we could get a good player for him, even better.

ninja edit because i was clueless as to what i was talking about. sorry ST

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ivanfromwestwood

look guys i love manu as much as the next guy but at what point do we part ways? like i said if its a small contract, great and if we could get a good player for him, even better.


according to hoopsworld salaries


manu- 10,728,130
bonner-3,267,000
finley-2,500,000
theo-1,306,455
ian-989,670


thats 18,791,255 to play with. im sure we could resign mason, splitter and another good player with that kind of money

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What exactly are you looking to do with the team? When you have Tim Duncan you go for Championships, not anything else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ice009

What exactly are you looking to do with the team? When you have Tim Duncan you go for Championships, not anything else.

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adding splitter, and maybe a shooter like joe johnson would be my solution to next year with a little bit of hairston. who says the spurs cant be a player in the 2010 free agency?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ivanfromwestwood

look guys i love manu as much as the next guy but at what point do we part ways? like i said if its a small contract, great and if we could get a good player for him, even better.


according to hoopsworld salaries


manu- 10,728,130
bonner-3,267,000
finley-2,500,000
theo-1,306,455
ian-989,670


thats 18,791,255 to play with. im sure we could resign mason, splitter and another good player with that kind of money

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just because we have ~20 mil in expirings doesnt mean we get to spend ~20 mil in the offseason. if we let everyone walk, we only have the MLE to work with (bird rights of our players excluded).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ivanfromwestwood

adding splitter, and maybe a shooter like joe johnson would be my solution to next year with a little bit of hairston. who says the spurs cant be a player in the 2010 free agency?

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the cba.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ss1986v2

just because we have ~20 mil in expirings doesnt mean we get to spend ~20 mil in the offseason. if we let everyone walk, we only have the MLE to work with (bird rights of our players excluded).

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oh i see. well then pardon me as i shut the fuck up. seems im a bit uneducated as to how player salaries work.:bang

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ivanfromwestwood

oh i see. well then pardon me as i shut the fuck up. seems im a bit uneducated as to how player salaries work.:bang

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If we had 20 Million to spend then we'd be looking at Chris Bosh ;).

The MLE I think can only be used when you are over the salary cap. With us mentioning that I thought you were aware of that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ice009

Sorry, but you are a retard.

Manu was maybe top 2 or 3 SG in the NBA in the 2008 regular season. Even though he got hurt at the start of the playoffs he still had big games until the LA series were he just wasn't able to perform.

And just to add there is no one this summer that the Spurs could get that would be better than Manu. The Spurs simply don't have the cap room to sign anyone that would be better than Manu. Someone would have to take a Ron Artest type contract and that would also leave no money for Splitter.

Manu is playing better and he will be a lot better. He is getting into form.

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Agree, except the emboldened bit. Definitely an ill-informed series of posts by ivanfromwherever. :lol

I think it's time we accept his older body as a physical limit to what he can do and lower our expectations of Manu's ceiling. Unless he radically improves his jumper and floater, or becomes a post-up guard, he'll never again be the slashing scorer he was because his legs are half gone. He needs to do a Jason Kidd and re-tool his game to his new physical limitations, and that means pull-ups, floaters, posting up, and improving his 3-ball (which he is very capable of doing - we've seen it before).

I think we should offer him a 15mil/2 yr with player option for a 3rd (only partially guaranteed like the Dice contract) and hope he takes it. I'd even go a little higher if he asked for it because of his marketing value to the franchise in a largely hispanic market, and because like DRob, he deserves it and I want to see him go out as a Spur. 16mil/2 yr ought to get it done. And then that adds to Tim's expiring in 2012 to go shopping under the new CBA when players will be cheaper.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Agree, except the emboldened bit. Definitely an ill-informed series of posts by ivanfromwherever. :lol

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:flipoff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ivanfromwestwood

:flipoff

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Well, that's what you get when you talk out your arse with very little evidence or understanding of what the fuck you are talking about to back it up! Don't get angry at me, check yo self! :lmao

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Well, that's what you get when you talk out your arse with very little evidence or understanding of what the fuck you are talking about to back it up! Don't get angry at me, check yo self! :lmao

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That has to sound awesome with an Aussie accent. :lol

:lol @ the people who think that Manu being better than Bonner wins the argument

sadly that is the best you can hope for now though, the days that Manu helps the Spurs more than Bonner are great days for Manu and the CoM

:lmao:lmao

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Originally Posted by vander

:lol @ spursfan. I'm already on the Lakers bandwagon

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:rolleyes

Manu will get his shooting back... no doubt about it. The question is where are the haters like you, ducks and rascal going to be when he does.

We won the game. Manu played well despite his shooting. You just have an axe to grind...

So... I think I was right.

=)

BL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue-Lightning

So... I think I was right.

=)

BL

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:worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy:

That was epic.

You might become the lower post-count member to have a spur.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue-Lightning

So... I think I was right.

=)

BL

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:tu

And it was all needed...

Good call. Manu for POTM would be awesome.

ouch lotta people owned up in here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vander

:lol @ the people who think that Manu being better than Bonner wins the argument

sadly that is the best you can hope for now though, the days that Manu helps the Spurs more than Bonner are great days for Manu and the CoM

:lmao:lmao

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:owned

lots of butt rape in this thread :lol