Time for Hairston and Ian/Ratliff

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Originally Posted by TJastal

:rolleyes

3 point shooting is overrated. Sure you score more points at face value (3 vs 2) but your also not getting to the line at all (unless the occasional 3pt foul which is ultra-rare) & subsequently not getting opposing players in foul trouble in their teams into the penalty for easy points.

Not to mention it breeds laziness and a bunch of players who just stand around and do nothing but wait for a kick out.

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:lmao

We've found the level of the room.

All I'm saying is he should take more than one three point shot every 114 minutes in the NBA.

You obviously think he is a perfect player without doing this.

Good for you.

He takes one every 21 minutes or so in the D-League as the focal point of the offense, and makes 47% of them.

Good for him.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

:lmao

We've found the level of the room.

All I'm saying is he should take more than one three point shot every 114 minutes in the NBA.

You obviously think he is a perfect player without doing this.

Good for you.

He takes one every 21 minutes or so in the D-League as the focal point of the offense, and makes 47% of them.

Good for him.

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LOL you obviously think 3 point shooting is the holy grail of basketball. Hell, maybe I should try out for the NBA, I can chuck up 3's too.

:lol

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Originally Posted by TJastal

LOL you obviously think 3 point shooting is the holy grail of basketball. Hell, maybe I should try out for the NBA, I can chuck up 3's too.

:lol

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If you can make 47% of them in an NBA season, you'd be a millionaire several times over.

It's a pretty valuable skill. I'm not sure you understand that.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

If you can make 47% of them in an NBA season, you'd be a millionaire several times over.

It's a pretty valuable skill. I'm not sure you understand that.

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It's a valuable skill but you act like its the holy grail, therefore overrating it. Especially the way the league is now where its so easy to get to the line with a little body contact. Look at the orlando magic, they've been doing nothing but chucking 3's all year long and it hasn't done jack for them. Against the celtics yesterday they finally pounded the ball inside to Howard and took the ball to the basket strong all game long which resulted in 40 FT attempts compared to just 18 for the C's. They also shot 6 less 3's than the C's which was a total role reversal and (amazingly!) won the game.

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Originally Posted by TJastal

It's a valuable skill but you act like its the holy grail, therefore overrating it. Especially the way the league is now where its so easy to get to the line with a little body contact. Look at the orlando magic, they've been doing nothing but chucking 3's all year long and it hasn't done jack for them. Against the celtics yesterday they finally pounded the ball inside to Howard and took the ball to the basket strong all game long which resulted in 40 FT attempts compared to just 18 for the C's. They also shot 6 less 3's than the C's which was a total role reversal and (amazingly!) won the game.

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So you're saying no NBA player should take more than one shot per 114 minutes.

OK.

You've made yourself clear.

I think a player like Hairston could do well shooting threes more often than that. I believe that it would draw his defenders out to him more on the perimeter, which would keep them from sagging into the paint to help double a player like Duncan, and allow Hairston to drive around them easier should he choose to do so. It could also make Hairston's defender foul him more when he does drive since they are in a less optimal position to guard those drives.

Now give me your arguments why Malik should never take a three point shot in the NBA more often than once every 114 minutes. Give examples of starting NBA shooting guards -- I'm sure you consider Malik starting material -- that shoot it at that rate. I can't think of any offhand.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So you're saying no NBA player should take more than one shot per 114 minutes.

OK.

You've made yourself clear.

I think a player like Hairston could do well shooting threes more often than that. I believe that it would draw his defenders out to him more on the perimeter, which would keep them from sagging into the paint to help double a player like Duncan, and allow Hairston to drive around them easier should he choose to do so. It could also make Hairston's defender foul him more when he does drive since they are in a less optimal position to guard those drives.

Now give me your arguments why Malik should never take a three point shot in the NBA more often than once every 114 minutes. Give examples of starting NBA shooting guards -- I'm sure you consider Malik starting material -- that shoot it at that rate. I can't think of any offhand.

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Your argument is invalid. It was stated earlier that Pop would make Hairston shoot some 3's if he actually played meaningful rotation minutes, something he has never done before.

And I actually LOVE the fact that in those 114 minutes he has never once shot a 3. Why? Because it tells me he is cutting and slashing to the basket and getting to the line, instead of standing around out on the 3 point line like a lazy fuck.

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Originally Posted by TJastal

Your argument is invalid. It was stated earlier that Pop would make Hairston shoot some 3's if he actually played meaningful rotation minutes, something he has never done before.

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That completely validates my argument and destroys yours. You don't want him to shoot more threes. You want him to just put his head down and hope to draw a foul. The last guy who did that was Darius Washington. Which NBA team is he playing for now?

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And I actually LOVE the fact that in those 114 minutes he has never once shot a 3. Why? Because it tells me he is cutting and slashing to the basket and getting to the line, instead of standing around out on the 3 point line like a lazy fuck.

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You know he shot .286 from the line in the NBA, don't you?

Nah, you didn't.

And you didn't respond to my request:

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Give examples of starting NBA shooting guards -- I'm sure you consider Malik starting material -- that shoot it at that rate. I can't think of any offhand.

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I'm waiting.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

That completely validates my argument and destroys yours. You don't want him to shoot more threes. You want him to just put his head down and hope to draw a foul. The last guy who did that was Darius Washington. Which NBA team is he playing for now?

You know he shot .286 from the line in the NBA, don't you?

Nah, you didn't.

And you didn't respond to my request:

I'm waiting.

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I never said shooting an occassional 3 is a terrible idea, the point I was making was Malik is obviously doing alot of cutting to the basket / setting screens / etc which IMO shows he is not a lazy fuck just standing around on the 3pt line. With just a little work he could easily incorporate a 3pt shot into his arsenal.

Jump to extreme conclusions much, dickhead?

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Originally Posted by TJastal

I never said shooting an occassional 3 is a terrible idea, the point I was making was Malik is obviously doing alot of cutting to the basket / setting screens / etc which IMO shows he is not a lazy fuck just standing around on the 3pt line. With just a little work he could easily incorporate a 3pt shot into his arsenal.

Jump to extreme conclusions much, dickhead?

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So you actually agree with me that Hairston should shoot more threes in the NBA.

Nice. :toast

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So you actually agree with me that Hairston should shoot more threes in the NBA.

Nice. :toast

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As fanatical as you are about the 3 point shot you must nut yourself watching an orlando magic game.

I'm not fanatical at all. I simply believe Malik should shoot more than one three every 114 minutes in the NBA.

And you agree.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I'm not fanatical at all. I simply believe Malik should shoot more than one three every 114 minutes in the NBA.

And you agree.

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I just said it might not be a terrible idea. Implying if it helps his game sure. But if the guy is productive without shooting any 3's at all then who cares. It's not that big of a deal IMO.

So you don't agree?

You're being awfully wishy-washy about this.

And you wouldn't be arguing like this if it wasn't a big deal to you.

I feel it would help his game in the NBA quite a lot for the reasons I stated above.

You still haven't named any starting shooting guards who shoot threes at the 1/114 minute rate you feel they should.

:corn

Got anything else, Chump? Grant Hill has taken a 3 point shot every 61 minutes in his career. How did he make it 15 years in the league shooting so few 3's?

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Originally Posted by TJastal

:corn

Got anything else, Chump? Grant Hill has taken a 3 point shot every 61 minutes in his career. How did he make it 15 years in the league shooting so few 3's?

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1) He's a small forward.

2) Thanks for proving my point.

Again. :toast

Good to know it's not a big deal to you. All your extensive research might cause one to think it actually is.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

1) He's a small forward.

2) Thanks for proving my point.

Again. :toast

Good to know it's not a big deal to you. All your extensive research might cause one to think it actually is.

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Extensive research? LOL hardly. Not hard to plug 2 numbers into a calculator.
And Hairston is a SG/SF hybrid, much like Grant Hill. Very similar players IMO, and both effective. You haven't proved anything as far as I'm concerned, other than than your own talent for pompous self aggrandizing.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I think it's extremely far-fetched.

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I think you're being kind with that characterization.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

You can't really make that kind of assumption though..he has improved his 3-point shot over last season, and a sample size of 2 shots obviously isn't fair..there's no way anybody can make a judgment based on 2 shots..

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Originally Posted by lurker23

What he said. Besides, you can't just say "36 games" and make it sound impressive like that. Dude has played a grand total of 73 minutes in 21 games this season, taking a total of 11 shots. Sample sizes need to be much larger to make any kind of conclusion. Besides, if Pop believes Malik to be a true 3-point threat (which I think he can be), and if he eventually gets a shot to play some legitimate minutes (which I think he will, but perhaps not until next year), then Pop has a way of dealing with shooters: "Take the open shots you get, or I'll bench you."

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Originally Posted by TJastal

:rolleyes

3 point shooting is overrated. Sure you score more points at face value (3 vs 2) but your also not getting to the line at all (unless the occasional 3pt foul which is ultra-rare) & subsequently not getting opposing players in foul trouble in their teams into the penalty for easy points.

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It's NOT overrated, and the more you shoot it, the more efficient your offense becomes. Tim and Tony get to the line and play enough minutes to get the other teams into foul trouble. That's covered. Once you realize that, you go for efficiencies in offense. The most efficient shot in basketball is the corner three. In addition, if you shoot from beyond the arc, the ref has to raise his hand, and the play can even be reviewed later and changed for or against you. Not the case with a penetration, bump, and score. When you do that, you're relying on a call from the ref. You really don't want to do that when the chips are down in a playoff game against, say, LA.

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Not to mention it breeds laziness and a bunch of players who just stand around and do nothing but wait for a kick out.

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??? Manu is not a standstill 3 point shooter. Mason isn't either. That's not what I want Malik to be. What I want him to be is a multi threat player that can shoot from beyond the arc, put the ball on the floor for a mid range pull up J, or finish. You have to have the first one to set up the others.

In the Spurs system, in 228 minutes, you HAVE to be open for a three pointer more than 2 times, no matter what kind of minutes they are.

I'll let Hollinger finish for me. I'm not a stat geek, per se, but when it drives directly to offensive efficiency and winning, I'm all over it.

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Originally Posted by Hollinger

“…the reason teams shoot more often from out there (and perhaps employ players who do it better) is a simple one: It works. In fact, few stats correlate better with winning than 3-point attempts. If you tell me only how many 3-pointers a team has chucked up this season and provide no other information, I can tell you whether it is a winning team and be right eight times out of 10.”

“Check this out: The teams in the top 10 in 3-point attempts per field goal attempt have a combined winning percentage of .593 … and those in the bottom 10 have a combined winning percentage of .400.

That’s no accident. Three-point attempts have correlated highly with winning for the past several years.

Nine of the top 10 teams in 3-point attempts per field goal attempt also are above the league average in offensive efficiency, the lone exception being 20th-place Indiana. Similarly, only two teams , Utah and Golden State, have had below-average rates of 3-point attempts and still rank in the league’s upper half in offensive efficiency.”

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Originally Posted by TJastal

Extensive research? LOL hardly. Not hard to plug 2 numbers into a calculator.

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And found that Hill shoots threes at roughly twice the rate that Hairston has. :lol

Again, thanks for proving my point for me.

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And Hairston is a SG/SF hybrid, much like Grant Hill. Very similar players IMO, and both effective. You haven't proved anything as far as I'm concerned, other than than your own talent for pompous self aggrandizing.

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:lmao

Now Malik Hairston = Grant Hill.

I think we're done here.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

And found that Hill shoots threes at roughly twice the rate that Hairston has. :lol

Again, thanks for proving my point for me.

:lmao

Now Malik Hairston = Grant Hill.

I think we're done here.

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I compared the two and said their games have similarities, not that Hairston = Hill. Again, you jump to extreme conclusions and fail to read and comprehend. Hill has made a living for 15 years as a guy who rarely shoots a 3. Hairston seems to be similar in that regard and plays as a bigger defender than his listed height, similar to Hill.

Just for your reference.

sim⋅i⋅lar  /ˈsɪmələr

–adjective 1. having a likeness or resemblance, esp. in a general way: two similar houses.

But by all means keep up your egotistical self flatulence. Maybe you can set a spurstalk record.

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Originally Posted by TJastal

I compared the two and said their games have similarities, not that Hairston = Hill. Again, you jump to extreme conclusions and fail to read and comprehend. Hill has made a living for 15 years as a guy who rarely shoots a 3. Hairston seems to be similar in that regard and plays as a bigger defender than his listed height, similar to Hill.

Just for your reference.

sim⋅i⋅lar  /ˈsɪmələr

–adjective 1. having a likeness or resemblance, esp. in a general way: two similar houses.

But by all means keep up your egotistical self flatulence. Maybe you can set a spurstalk record.

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alright alright. I like it when there's a mediator. So I'll be the mediator in this one. Both of you, take it easy. It's really funny, but soon it's gonna get lame. not taking any sides, just trying to help.

for the record, Chumper did ask for a shooting guard and TJastal brought up a small forward.

But I don't think he meant GH=MH he simply wanted to use someone he didn't shoot a lot of 3s.

now stop jumping to conclusions and using dramatic multi-syllable name calling.

you both win. ok? draw. now move on.

sometimes we all need a pal to mediate.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

It's NOT overrated, and the more you shoot it, the more efficient your offense becomes. Tim and Tony get to the line and play enough minutes to get the other teams into foul trouble. That's covered. Once you realize that, you go for efficiencies in offense. The most efficient shot in basketball is the corner three. In addition, if you shoot from beyond the arc, the ref has to raise his hand, and the play can even be reviewed later and changed for or against you. Not the case with a penetration, bump, and score. When you do that, you're relying on a call from the ref. You really don't want to do that when the chips are down in a playoff game against, say, LA.

??? Manu is not a standstill 3 point shooter. Mason isn't either. That's not what I want Malik to be. What I want him to be is a multi threat player that can shoot from beyond the arc, put the ball on the floor for a mid range pull up J, or finish. You have to have the first one to set up the others.

In the Spurs system, in 228 minutes, you HAVE to be open for a three pointer more than 2 times, no matter what kind of minutes they are.

I'll let Hollinger finish for me. I'm not a stat geek, per se, but when it drives directly to offensive efficiency and winning, I'm all over it.

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The corner 3 is an efficient shot but again, you overrate it. Give me a dunk or layup instead anyday with potential for the foul and free throws attached. Hairston (in the extremely limited minutes I saw of him) dunked the ball quite often and got easy and layups because he moves and makes cuts to the rim alot.

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Originally Posted by TJastal

I compared the two and said their games have similarities, not that Hairston = Hill. Again, you jump to extreme conclusions and fail to read and comprehend. Hill has made a living for 15 years as a guy who rarely shoots a 3. Hairston seems to be similar in that regard and plays as a bigger defender than his listed height, similar to Hill.

Just for your reference.

sim⋅i⋅lar  /ˈsɪmələr

–adjective 1. having a likeness or resemblance, esp. in a general way: two similar houses.

But by all means keep up your egotistical self flatulence. Maybe you can set a spurstalk record.

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Hill shoots threes at roughly twice the rate you want Hairston to keep shooting them.

You think 61 = 114, just as you think Hairston = Hill and a small forward = shooting guard.

I disagree. I don't think 61 = 114 and I don't think Hairston = Hill, or is even that similar as players.

I understand this is very important to you, but you just aren't very good at this. By all means continue though. It's entertaining.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Hill shoots threes at roughly twice the rate you want Hairston to keep shooting them.

You think 61 = 114, just as you think Hairston = Hill and a small forward is a shooting guard.

I disagree. I don't think 61 = 114 and I don't think Hairston = Hill, or is even that similar a player.

I understand this is very important to you, but you just aren't very good at this.

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Well at least you finally passed reading comprehension.:clap

I never said they were equal as players, I said they have similar styles and you disagree with that comparison. Good for you.

They are both athletic sg/sf hybrids that play bigger than their listed height and therefore can play either position because of that. The both do most of their damage attacking the basket and have a good midrange game and play well in the transition game.

The point here is that they both are effective players even while not taking many 3 point attempts.

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Originally Posted by TJastal

The corner 3 is an efficient shot but again, you overrate it. Give me a dunk or layup instead anyday with potential for the foul and free throws attached. Hairston (in the extremely limited minutes I saw of him) dunked the ball quite often and got easy and layups because he moves and makes cuts to the rim alot.

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Again, you're relying on the refs to get you that 3rd point. One hundred percent of made 3s count for 3 points. I'm not sure what the percentage is when you get bumped while making a shot, but I guarantee you that 100% of And1s don't get called.

If you can't understand simple shot efficiency examples, and are all about cool dunks, then I'm done talkin' too ya.