Some thoughts on Tony Parker

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

imo tony deserves every allstar appearance he has ever gotten. And he'll no doubt ( if healthy) be in more all star games in the future. From the time i got here i never said parker was a bad player. He is just not the pg that the spurs need right now. Can he be? I think so, i seen flashes of what he can do from the pg standpoint. However when is he gonna adjust his game to suit the players around him? Another pg might be able to come in and do that before tim retires. I would like to see the big 3 retire in a spurs jersey but if someone had to go it would be parker, not because he is a bad player, because i dont know he can alter his game quick enough to salvage the season and tims career.

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+1.

I'm bracing myself already for the "Beno >>> TP" threads that are sure to show up if we manage to lose to the Kings tonight (even though Tony is not going to play)...

Another reason this is a must win game... :lol

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Originally Posted by Brazil

portnoy1 never fail to deliver

How do you rank / analyse the Collison 32 assists ? more parker's ones or manu ? more CP3 in the style ?

Is Collison the future Steve Nash ?

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Didnt see the 2 collison games, but I assume that any post about Parkers weaknesses makes me a Parker-hater. In my post I talked about Manu's weaknesses and strengths as well as TP's weaknesses and strengths in the passing department. But Im sure you didnt read the whole post, so thats cool.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

manufan and tonyfan will be gone in 5 years anyway.

Then we can enjoy the Spurs sucking.

Just kidding?
Hopefully.

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LOL... but then we'll argue between Hill and Blair!

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Originally Posted by z0sa

manufan and tonyfan will be gone in 5 years anyway.



Then we can enjoy the Spurs sucking.


Just kidding?
Hopefully.

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wrong. they will turn into Nando De Colo fans vs. Juan Fernandez fans

manufan and tonyfan will be here forever :lmao

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Originally Posted by hater

wrong. they will turn into Nando De Colo fans vs. Juan Fernandez fans

manufan and tonyfan will be here forever :lmao

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After recent debacles in Mahinmi/Splitter???/Beno the spurs probably wont be getting to many players from overseas and stashing them like before. TP and Manu were incredible finds that were worth the risk. TP at 28th pick / Manu at 57th. I doubt that kinda magic in the draft will happen to spurs again. So dont expect see Nando any time soon.

:lol

I think most of the group of arg/fr fans who originally bandwagoned have actually become big fans after all these years. Shit, how could you not be? You got to watch one of the L's best teams for 7+ years now.. gotta be worth something.

Tony and Manu both have played important parts in how the Spurs have been successful and as for now Tony is the better player. It doesn't matter anyways and all of these Manu vs Tony threads might disappear next year with Manu possibly going elsewhere. I bet then we'll have Tony vs George Hill threads instead :lol. Another interesting thing I was listening to the other day would you hate Manu if he decided to not come back here and decided to sign with the Lakers instead? Interesting

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Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan

I don't see how and why anyone could make a valid point either way. Manu and Parker have both been very successful and have both helped the Spurs equally and are both equally as good as players, albeit with different peaks and lows obviously. Manu = Parker for the Spurs.

Saying that Tony > Manu is as much homerism as the argie fans' that you're bashing for saying Manu > Parker.

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Originally Posted by Bukefal

Exactly :tu They are both great players and as a fan I see how both have meant a lot for us and still do.

I do think as players it is; TP > Manu. I see that as reality, not as a thing to bash on Manu. I dont have any hate for Manu, he is loved and very popular among Spurs fans. He is obviously more loved than Parker ( at least, on ST), I just dont get all the Parker bashing and hate, I think that's ridiculous and very undeserved.

As I already said; It has nothing to do with bashing. I dont want to bash Manu. It's just reality for me: TP>Manu. You can say what you want, but it's true.

So, you say they are equal, ok, thats one thing, that's your opinion obviously and that's fine. But then you are saying now we can't say which players are better than others anymore? Because that is bashing and homerism? Does it mean that im bashing manu, just because I say TP is a better player?
No, that has nothing to do with bashing or hating Manu. Because I don't and that's the thing we were talking about, the undeserved hate and blindness against Parker, and the love for Manu.

And yeah as Ive also said, it doesnt matter, both players mean and meant for us and as a fan I see that. But you can't say they are equal and then telling me im bashing because I dont think they are equal. If I would have said; Manu is a asshole he stinks, ok, then Im bashing but not when im just saying TP is a better player, because thats just reality

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

Didnt see the 2 collison games, but I assume that any post about Parkers weaknesses makes me a Parker-hater. In my post I talked about Manu's weaknesses and strengths as well as TP's weaknesses and strengths in the passing department. But Im sure you didnt read the whole post, so thats cool.

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Even if you didn't see the 2 collison games, I gues you have already seen him, right ? So my question is still valid, how this guy put 32 assists in two games, is he the new S Nash ? Should we trade parker for him ? he has more assists than Calderon !

In your post where did you talk about Manu's weaknesses ? Is it the bold part ? :lmao his weakness is a bad shooting game compensated by an incredible 9 assists ?

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

Parker is what he is. Sadly I think the spurs FO/Pop kinda made him that way. Its not so much the assist that are the problem with Parker, Its how he gets them. Last season Parker averaged 7ast a game, thats only 1-2 ast a night shy of what Calderon/Kidd/Rondo averaged who were in the top 5 last season. However its the way he got those assist thats the problem this day an age. Parker can drive and kick to shooters all night, and probably average 10ast a game doing it. However If you put non-shooters on the floor with him he becomes extremely limited in the halfcourt and limits others in transition. Blair/Hill/RJ dont work to well with him cause their not natural spot-up shooters. However when you throw Manu in the mix, Blair gets layups/Hill and RJ get good looks in transition and the team game becomes better. In the Nuggets game Ginobili didnt have a great scoring game, but he handed out 9ast and kept the ball moving. Parkers 9ast compared to Manu's 9ast are completely different.

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By the way just lol at the comparaison between one assist and another, so now in basketball you have a good assist and a bad assist ? What is the difference ? I'm lost: at the end the good assist gives you 2,5 pts and the bad one only 2 pts ?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

:rolleyes

You're not "incredibly vocal and omnipresent" whenever somebody says anything about TP?

How many more times do we have to hear what's TP assist/turnover ratio from 82games.com? :lol

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:lol good one.

but i think i've never started any TP praising thread and i'm sure i've never started any manu bashing thread.

manu's church devotion and vehemence are incomparable.

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Originally Posted by Brazil

Even if you didn't see the 2 collison games, I gues you have already seen him, right ? So my question is still valid, how this guy put 32 assists in two games, is he the new S Nash ? Should we trade parker for him ? he has more assists than Calderon !

In your post where did you talk about Manu's weaknesses ? Is it the bold part ? :lmao his weakness is a bad shooting game compensated by an incredible 9 assists ?



By the way just lol at the comparaison between one assist and another, so now in basketball you have a good assist and a bad assist ? What is the difference ? I'm lost: at the end the good assist gives you 2,5 pts and the bad one only 2 pts ?

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My bad, I was refering to another Post I had regarding Parker and Manu's passing styles in which I critisized and complimented both. It is not in this thread, I thought it was. Anywho, my point regarding the assist is how it accomodates the players around you. Parker's assist accomdates shooters only (for the most part). Thats why last season Parker had a career high 7ast average because he had 3 shooters (Mason/Finley/Bonner) around him. However throw him out there with RJ/Hill/Blair, his passing style doesnt accomodate them nearly as much because they are not shooters. Manu can come in with those guys and hit RJ/Hill in transition and feeds blair in his sweet spots (2 feet from the basket when he slips PnR with Manu). Parker isnt as good at that and that to me is important if this stacked team is gel properly. Magic Johnson turned Kurt Rambis into a scoring threat simply because he found him in transition. Alot of the spurs run, but with Parker he is use to going 1 on 3. In recent years he has always been succesfull doing that. He is hurt this year, but IMO hasnt made good enough effort to pass to guys in the spots where they will be effective. The Collison thing, I havent seen the guy and I Dont just base my thoughts on numbers alone.

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

I was never banned. Cant think of a reason I should be either!!!

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I didn't mean you were banned. I meant his (parker2112) original user name was banned.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I didn't mean you were banned. I meant his (parker2112) original user name was banned.

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Thats good to know, Even though most here want me banned I like this site alot. Even Brazil!!!!

The difference between parker and manu passing wise is the way manu sets up other players. Especially when he gets screens from Blair and Dyess. A reason he gets to make some of those plays is because (even though he has not been hitting it lately) he has a reputation for hitting his shot consistenly. That's one of differences between a PG like parker and guys like Nash, Deron, and Paul. Those guys can hit a shot off the screen and roll.

Parker is a penetrate and pass type of guard. He is looking for his shot first then looks for the open man, unless a play is specifically called for another player first. Part of this is the system and part is because one of parker's strength is getting into the lane for a layup.

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Originally Posted by trypldubl

The difference between parker and manu passing wise is the way manu sets up other players. Especially when he gets screens from Blair and Dyess. A reason he gets to make some of those plays is because (even though he has not been hitting it lately) he has a reputation for hitting his shot consistenly. That's one of differences between a PG like parker and guys like Nash, Deron, and Paul. Those guys can hit a shot off the screen and roll.

Parker is a penetrate and pass type of guard. He is looking for his shot first then looks for the open man, unless a play is specifically called for another player first. Part of this is the system and part is because one of parker's strength is getting into the lane for a layup.

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+10000
That has been my point since I been here in Spurstalk. But no that cant be, cause im a Parker-hater for life according to some here. Never was a Parker-hater never will be, its just that so many people defend him when he obviously has weaknesses. They have shown up big time this year, but the Parker-homers cant comprehend that.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

:lol

I think most of the group of arg/fr fans who originally bandwagoned have actually become big fans after all these years. Shit, how could you not be? You got to watch one of the L's best teams for 7+ years now.. gotta be worth something.

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That's true, but I think it has more to do with the existance of this board than the time spent cheeering for the Spurs.

Yea, I know, I have seen your posting before and I know people here get defensive about certian players.

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Originally Posted by kace

for me, it's quite simple. Most fans like both players and know what they mean/meant to this team. but the manu's groupies (especially the argentine ones) are just incredibly vocal and omnipresent when it comes about manu's greatness or TP bashing.. that's just it.

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I can't think of an Argie in ST that is a blind TP hater: Manumaniac, ElNono, MB20, Cherry, Diego, etc. none of them are big time Parker bashers, in fact I've seen them arguing against the stupid critiscism Tony gets in here many times.

Of course I don't know from where each of the posters is, there's always the chance that portony is Argentine too :lol

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Originally Posted by DAF86

I can't think of an Argie in ST that is a blind TP hater: Manumaniac, ElNono, MB20, Cherry, Diego, etc. none of them are big time Parker bashers, in fact I've seen them arguing against the stupid critiscism Tony gets in here many times.

Of course I don't know from where each of the posters is, there's always the chance that portony is Argentine too :lol

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Who is portony? as in poor tony parker cause he takes the heat alot? Actually I was born in new york for your information and have never been any where near Argentina. However I have been to canada which is somewhat related to france. So technically I should be bowing before Tony Parker. When its all said and done Tony Parker is a solid player that has weaknesses like every player does.

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Originally Posted by portnoy1

Thats good to know, Even though most here want me banned I like this site alot. Even Brazil!!!!

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Me too I like you...................... a lot. its quite gay no ?


For the rest if you are not capable to recognize you are biaised about TP there's nothing I can do. Dude you would trade him for Calderon without thinking twice. Even DAF thinks you're an argie extremist member of the manu church.

and just lol at the assists story it's stupid pain and simple, an assist is an assist. Wtf this style doesn't work if you haven't shooters ? you know a team without shooters ? BTW how the guy has more or less the same number of assists than last year ?
Once again the assists stat is a lot of b/s, look closely the CP3 games at home and count the assists then you make the comparaison with "official" numbers, very often you wonder how the guys have found 15 assists.

Look I'm even not a TP homer, when he sucks I say he sucks, I'm also defending Manu when I think the bashing is wrong. same here.

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Originally Posted by Brazil

Me too I like you...................... a lot. its quite gay no ?


For the rest if you are not capable to recognize you are biaised about TP there's nothing I can do. Dude you would trade him for Calderon without thinking twice. Even DAF thinks you're an argie extremist member of the manu church.

and just lol at the assists story it's stupid pain and simple, an assist is an assist. Wtf this style doesn't work if you haven't shooters ? you know a team without shooters ? BTW how the guy has more or less the same number of assists than last year ?
Once again the assists stat is a lot of b/s, look closely the CP3 games at home and count the assists then you make the comparaison with "official" numbers, very often you wonder how the guys have found 15 assists.

Look I'm even not a TP homer, when he sucks I say he sucks, I'm also defending Manu when I think the bashing is wrong. same here.

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I think Calderon is a better team player and keeps the ball moving side to side and has PG instincts. However I tell you that between RJ and Parker which most of this is about anyway, I would trade RJ 9 times out if 10 instead of Parker. I certainly dont hate RJ but I would like to see all of the big 3 retire in a spurs jersey. I also would like the spurs to go back to a dominant defense (2001-2008) and a systematic offense thats still somewhat unpredictable (2005). Parker surrounded by 2 shooters and 2 legit big men would make me much happier than the spurs with another PG and no defense still.

The reason why Parker worked for us in those years was because he was not given the green light to be the primary scorer on the wing. Second Duncan was drawing double teams that would cause players to leave their man. He was basically our point guard in a manner of speaking. He would probe the defense, pick it apart and find the shooters. If not then pass it to Parker and manu on the wing to penetrate or so they could score or find the open guy spoting up. Now Duncan gets played strait up more often because teams do not fear him as much anymore. We have shooters on this team it's just we don't get wide open looks as much.

Parker has trouble creating shot for his teamates other than drive and kick. What portnoy1 is saying that half of Paul's assists are off of the way he creates. He may see a play developing and know when to pass the ball and get that assist. Parker get more assist from the system. Parker can sometimes make those plays but most of the time he just can't see them.

[quote=trypldubl;4050618] half of Paul's assists don't exist. [quote]

fify

OK....let me brake it down for you. Basic set plays Paul could get an assist just buy passing a ball to David West in a pop and shoot play or by passing to a guy coming of a screen. He can get about 5 assists during the game like that (the half that don't exist). He gets others when the play brakes down and he finds the mismatch or sucks the defense in to find an open shooter. Paul also is great in the transition game and can make that pinpoint pass around the rim or to the trailer on the wing. Basically creating shots that a player with his vision could create.

I am not bashing Parker, he just dosen't have the same court vision as Paul or a few of the other points in the league. Tony is better at getting into the lane then Paul and when healthy is still one of the fastest in the league. Each player has there own strengths.