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Tough loss.
However, that was the healthiest I've seen the Big Three the entire season. Duncan looked fine, Parker was moving well and Ginobili was able to attack the rim. When it comes down to it, the health of the Big Three is way more important than anything else right now.
*cue the flaming*
Eh, I don't care at the moment. If we're healthy, then I think we have a chance.
thanks for that timvp. i always look forward to hearing your silver lining comments. yea i agree. TP looked like his 08-09 form. Manu was active. Tim was off but we know what we get from him.
But still this team needs more than these 3 to win. RJ needs to play defense better. He gets torched alot by anybody.
They'll be really healthy next year after not having any playoff games. :depressed
There is no silver lining here IMO.......
Is that the silver lining here? I actually agree with you there. It's just frustrating seeing how the potential is there, but they just can't put it all together. This team just doesn't have the chemistry we are use to seeing from past teams. Just gotta keep hoping they can get over that hump.
Timmy looked slow in the second half.
Physically they're healthy, mentally these guys need to get over that huge hump in clutch situations.
Turning the ball over when you forced one in the last minute = :bang
we are healthy and we cant beat the Blazers 3rd stringers
It doesn't matter when the players on this team are slow, play with no energy and have low IQ, which results in poor D..the Blazers shot 51% tonight, this seems to be what we expect from teams going up against the Spurs..
Health is important and it's nice, but this team has big problems..
I can't remember the last time the Spurs forced multiple shot clock violations which I'm pretty sure happened in this game.
Not really a silver lining. Just something that should be noted when looking at the big picture. The Spurs could be 50-0 right now or whatever but if the Big Three isn't healthy, it doesn't matter.
Believe.
So much for taking TD out on back-2-backs...
Webster was perfect from the 3-point line. You would think somebody would stay on that guy towards the end.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoogarBear
I hope anyway...would rather have the lottery balls than the first round exit.
I expected Tony to look fresh tonight after the rest, but I figure it's only a temporary boost for him... Hopefully I'm completely wrong on this one tho, cause he looked great tonight.
Big 3 being healthy is nice but without defense or the ability to stop runs it doesn't mean anything.
Yeah, it was good to see everyone looking healthy. And I'm assuming Mason is gone as of tomorrow or something.
But when it comes down to it, to me, this game is on Pop. He should have called a timeout at 4 minutes to go, 3 minutes to go, etc to stop the bleeding. He sent Tony to the scorer's table with 4 something left and Tony sat there on the ground til 2 minutes (or less). A timeout to re-group was really needed and Pop let them blow the lead. I know it's on the players for not executing/getting stops, but the coach needs to know when they need a little help to re-focus.
I agree with the health assesment. They also played great D for almost two quarters, which is two quarters better than the last few games. I thought this was a game where we took a step in the right direction, despite the loss. That said, we've been on this road before this season and we've managed to regress.
That's another good sign. If Duncan was iffy at all about his knee, Pop would be sitting him.Quote:
Originally Posted by DDS4
Don't get me wrong ... this was a very tough loss and the Spurs are long, long, long shots when it comes to winning the championship, but when the Big Three finally all look healthy at the same time -- it's notable.
I thought in the last 5 minutes of the game we should've given the ball to manu on the perimeter and pick and rolled with him, cuz he was killing that earlier. we posted tim up a couple of times and it didn't really work. I mean, I know that's results oriented, and if they had given the ball to manu and he hadn't produced good results i'd be like, "Why didn't we go to tim!?" but I thought manu looked really fresh getting to the basket, and in the past our modus operandi was get the ball to manu and let him make something happen. anyway, I thought we played some solid defense at times. for 3 quarters of this game, I was like, we're putting it together. I think that's what's most disappointing. losing doesn't have to mean that we didn't put something together though. We'll see. I still believe, for the record.
The bodies may be willing and able finally, but the heads and hearts are weak.
The last one he made:Quote:
Originally Posted by DDS4
Tony had to go cover Batum in the corner, nobody helped on Tony's man so he got a wide open 3....un-fucking-believable this team is right now.
I'm also definitely happier to see Pop going off. Seeing him hitting the media table and really getting after some of the guys was encouraging to see. Hadn't seen it like that in a while.
I get the feeling Pop senses its go time and hopefully he really lights a fire under their ass.
Maybe it's just me but who knows...
IMO, Duncan is not fine. He can't jump. This was his condition late last year as well. He is not able to alter shots, block shots, get critical boards. I know his stats aren't bad tonight but he is not the Timmy of old. He didn't even play a true center tonight, he was played by a washed up has been, 1 on 1, and he scored 15.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Without him playing at the old level, we are in trouble. :(
That was McDyess' fault, I believe. He missed a lot of rotations today.Quote:
Originally Posted by alchemist
so the fact that the spurs are more than 50% into the season and they go minutes without a bucket, a coach that has his head up his ass...i hot dog who makes ill-advised passes night in and night out...can't hit a wide open jumper...(mason won 5 games by himself last year and he's on the bench)...the best point guard in the history of san antonio is sitting below the scorers table and there is happiness?
uh no... The spurs still can't beat a good team, the still can't execute and the coach has his head up his ass.. and buck harvey is writing articles about the best coach in the history of the nba...
yeah...uh huh...
as long as theres no back2backs in the playoffs
I don't see how anyone could be happy. It's not as if we aren't losing to almost every team that has more wins than losses.
We can't even beat the good teams when they are missing star players.
I think something needs to be done, but I get the feeling that we'll stand pat.
:cry
I thought both Manu and Tim were gassed at the end... I think they were more decoys than anything. That said, I agree Pop did some awful timeout management out there.
I personally thought Duncan looked awful tonight. He was so soft all night long, settling for jumpers late in the game, turning the ball over, getting bullied on defense. Probably one of his worst outings this season in my opinion.
Agreed on ginobili and parker though, both looked fine
Yes, also jumping on Bogans and sitting his ass after the retarded foul on Miller.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyM
This team doesn't make the plays it used to do to win games in the last minutes of the 4th quarter. This and the big letdown of what Jefferson has been this season will ultimately make for a great trade deadline. I grinned from ear to ear as this Spurs team lost yet another fought hard game because this lets the front office know that we won't bullshit our way into thinking that "if and when we gel" we can be a contender.
However, it does seem like the whole league is struggling in having big lead games, because the league has gotten so much tougher over the years and we are beginning to see many young prospects become the new big bad boys in town. The only reason the Lakers aren't feeling the heat as much we are is because they have many elite players on their team, something we dont have the money to afford that much due to our small market team.
:deadhorse
As always, there's positive and even elite plays the Spurs have had on both ends of the court (ball movement is looking better in these past games, Spurs responded defensively coming out of the half)... but it's the bigger picture that matters... the 'playing steadily enough to not only make the playoffs, but actually contend' is looking further and further away. Defense, traditionally, is fully a team responsibility, even if the Big-3 are looking better as a trio (I agree btw), it won't cure our defensive woes.
Another reason to cheer up:
Tonight's game helps Matt Bonner keep his title as the "Prince of Plus/Minus" after his second place showing!
More Bonner! More +/-!
:toast
i am not laughing.Quote:
Originally Posted by objective
I'm trying, I'm really trying. There are flashes of greatness between the scoring droughts, but it's so hard to watch them struggle. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan228
Manu looked the best he has all year. It's a good sign he's shown progress in his penetrating ability.
Spurs need to make a move for a more all around consistent wing instead of the Bogans/Mason/ Finley combination. 38 minutes for Hill is too much IMO.
Yeah, and earlier in the game too he got all over RJ and the result was RJ taking it to the hole hard twice, although he missed one and the next resulted in a foul.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Alright, I'll bite because it's you. Do you really think there's a trade in the works?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
It's a big picture thing. Every cliff-jumper reacts to 1 game, read 1 game with way too much emotion. What sucked in that 4th quarter was late defensive read & reactions from NEW players. It sucks that this late in the season that they haven't yet got it down cold. However, there is still a little bit of time left to get this. RJ, I don't have much hope for. Same with "Keef" Bogans, but McDyess, I think he can get it. I knew he was sucked in too far and that 1 3pointer and that was a killer momentum shift.
People bitch about the loss, but remember, even with this loss, the Spurs still have less losses than seeds 5,7, & 8. Remember, losses you can't give back.
it's only February :clap :clap
I know right...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghazi
I didn't have a problem with Duncan's D tonight..he blocked 2 shots and altered 3 shots, that's fine with me..Juwan Howard scoring an off the dribble turnaround hook shot is something you allow him to shoot..the rest were pick and rolls where he's too slow to switch to the jump shooter, which is something all Spurs fans should expect from an old Duncan at this point, we've seen it all year..
I had a problem with his offense, because he was taking horrible shots..he looked fine physically, he just allows inferior defenders to get in his head..he's played dominant basketball against almost every quality defender he's went up against this year, but when he plays average defenders, he starts coasting offensively and then allows them to get in his head when he isn't dominating..
I think they are trying to trade Mason, yes. I don't know if it will actually happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetonidas
Rather than coasting, I think it's more a matter of holding the ball too long. When he goes against better players, he knows he has to make quick decisions. When he goes smaller/weaker defenders, he has tended to hold onto the ball while relying on overpowering rather than quickness and decisiveness -- which leads to forced shots and turnovers.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
And I think it's more a matter of size or strength than defensive talent because the ultimate example of that this year was against Chuck Hayes.
that would be stupid. he is the best clutch player they have...the rest of this team couldn't win a game to save their lives...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
what a tragedy...
On the other side of the coin, was I the only one who wanted to jump off a bridge when Pop put Finley in at the end of the third quarter right when the Spurs were starting to play pretty well? Finley hadn't played all night and hasn't hit a shot in months, yet Pop decides that's the time to put him in.
:hang
My concern has always been that the two new acquisitions for the season have been mostly mediocre. They were supposed to help and push when the big three were not doing fine, but the big three have more or less done enough given their physical troubles. Richard Jefferson and Antonio McDyess haven't, on the other hand, justified their pay.
And the injuries to Bonner and Finley, the continued slump of Roger Mason's has meant that the supporting cast has been weakened as well.
The Spurs are therefore hanging in playoff contention mostly because of decent play by its Top 3 and occasional good stuff from youngsters Hill and Blair.
That means that any improvement through trade has to go through either improving the supporting cast by casting away either of Mason/Finley/Bonner or some of them and expect RJ/Dice to deliver as time goes on; or think big and cut from Mason/Finley/Bonner including one of RJ/Dice for a return of a shot blocking Big and a good Wing/defender.
I don't even think Finley has played bad or anything(other than that disgusting pass attempt), he's just SOOOO SLOOOOOW..everything he does is in slow motion..if we're talking about a big man, then it can pass, but a slow swingman just doesn't work in the hand-check era..he's 36 years old..give it a rest Pop..
You have got to be shitting me?Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
I agree with your comment, but there is no silver lining here.
Ginobili missing that potential game-tying three, in a game that if they win could have turned around the season, reminded me of the '03 championship DVD and Robinson talking about Horry's in-and-out three that would have given the Lakers a 3-2 series lead and likely did the Spurs in for the third consecutive year to the Lakers. Said Robinson (to paraphrase), "there are one or two moments in the playoffs that you remember and they either go for you or they go against you and when that shot came out, I remember thinking to myself, it's our time".
Well, when that Ginobili shot rimmed out, I immediately thought to myself (in case it already wasn't painfully obvious), our time is over. Arguably the most clutch player on the team and one of the most clutch in the league get's a wide open corner three with the game on the line and misses, particularly with the Spurs in dire need of pulling a game like this out, on the road, against quality opposition. Obviously I can't say for sure, but I feel if this were any other year since the big three formed, that shot goes down. Tonight it didn't and as cheesy as it may sound, maybe that's a sign.
what disgusted me was Pop putting Finley in the closing seconds of the game? Flashbacks of the last two seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
:lmao A little dramatic, aren't we. A three-pointer that would have tied a game in February between two teams playing horribly was one of only a few season defining moments we can expect this year? If Manu hits that shot and the Spurs lose in overtime, no one remember that shot. As it was, a week from now no one will remember that shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Yeah, once the RRT ends at under .500, this shot will be the last thing on people's minds...Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
I wonder how big our picture actually is .. there were some very strong stretches in that first 43 minutes, but everything just turned around from there, the same problems we've had all season came roaring back so suddenly, so predictably.
How many more excuses are you going to come up with? This was the latest most embarrassing loss in a season filled with them and you're looking for silver linings and clinging to some blind hope based on what this franchise (not team because, this is a different team) did in the past around this time of year. Give it up, this team flat out isn't a contender anymore. One or two problems can be fixed, but when it's a new one every other game rearing it's head, it's clear that this is just a middle-of-the-pack also ran.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
You're the one who had flashbacks to championship DVDs and I'm the one clinging to hope? You are insinuating that a missed three-pointer in this ugly game could be the difference between a championship and not a championship and you are telling me to give it up? I said it wasn't a silver lining or an excuse. But I would think the fact that the Big Three looked healthy for the first time all season would be a notable event.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Since when did the Spurs defensive philosophy erode to the point where they're now giving up tons of wide open looks at the 3-pt arc?Quote:
Originally Posted by DDS4
Did Dyess miss both of those rotations? After playing so well.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorSpur
From the beginning of the third quarter up until about halfway through the fourth quarter, that was some of the best spurs basketball i've seen all year. The defense during that time was tremendous.
I don't understand why Popovich didn't call timeout to get tony in the game when the offense was completely out of it in the fourth.
I hope there's a good reason Mason wasn't playing, because the Spurs could've really used his shooting in the fourth.
The last Webster 3 was just horrible basketball IQ by the Spurs..3 guys went after Andre Miller on the drive, it was ridiculous..
Other than that, it was mostly slow rotations..that can improve a little with less miscues on missed rotations, but the Spurs perimeter players clearly lack the athleticism, as we all already know..
Both late Martell Webster 3s = Dice missed rotation because he was too busy fronting Aldridge. Didn't help it that the Spurs collapsed on Andre Miller late in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
No you weren't the only one. I was screaming at the TV.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
The man-love continues.:bang
Way to take what I said out of context. You are clinging to hope and that's not at all what I'm insinuating, but thank you for putting words in my mouth. Notable, fine. Does it change the grand scheme of things? Not remotely. Healthy or not, the league has changed a lot the past two years and these guys have aged. Simply having them at full strength, while encouraging, is not enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
They pretty much had to or Miller was going to have a wide open lay up since McDyess wanted to wrestle and over commit fronting Aldridge. Blazers made some tough shots and hit every open shot they took in the 4th quarter. Sometimes it just comes down to " making some damn shots". Which is something we haven't done in the 4th quarter against the top teams in the West all year.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
No Timvp, there is no notable event to be seen here..they don't have legitimate defence anymore and we won't win games even with a healthy trio playing horrible defense. Just ask Suns fans. The only notable event here is that the urge to make a trade has never been greater in the Spurs front office. :wakeupQuote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Tony sat at the scores table for FAR too long but the didn't really have time outs to blow. They were pretty low on them at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
In any event, you can't really put it on Pop. They played with NO urgency late in the game and had it on cruise control. That was the most frustrating aspect of tonight.
Yeah, they looked good and they 3rd quarter defense was excellent. Then they packed up and flew to LA before the game was over. The way they mentally checked out of this game was extremely disappointing for me.
What did I take out of context? I just repeated what you said. You had flashbacks to a championship DVD after Manu's missed three. That was the context.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
What exactly were you clinging to when you thought the Spurs lost the championship on that one shot?Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Are you serious? The Big Three being healthy doesn't change the grand scheme of things? The Spurs without a healthy Big Three have a 0% chance of winning the championship. Unless you want to tell me the Spurs have a 0% chance of winning the championship no matter what, then you aren't making sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
And if you do want to say the Spurs have a 0% chance of winning the championship no matter what, then what exactly was the purpose of posting about your flashback to the championship DVD? Manu's miss altered the season how? Between not winning a championship and not winning a championship?
I still don't think Manu should have went to help though..I'll have to re-watch, but I think Duncan was there on the lay up, it would have been a shot Miller could make, but I would have lived with a semi-contested lay up as opposed to a 3 that put the game out of reach..Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
I agree that Portland made some lucky shots though, but that's been happening against the Spurs all year..
Well apparently Parker, the freshest of all the Spurs, needed 12 minutes of rest in the second half. But hey, who cares? Who needs wins when the three best players on the team (get this) all played well in the same game. Hooray, championship here we come!Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
Reading apparently isn't fundamental.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Does a healthy big 3 = contender status? I'm not so sure it does anymore. We got decent games from Blair, Dyess, and RJ as well, yet still couldn't notch a win. Don't wanna forget about Hill's contributions, either . .
Not by itself, no. But an unhealthy big 3 = automatic non-contender status.Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
The first step in becoming a contender is the big 3 being healthy. Again, it doesn't guarantee anything by itself but without that health there is nothing.
I said it reminded me of it. I didn't compare the two moments in significance though, which you're inferring I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Not anymore it doesn't. It helps, of course. But as witnessed tonight, even with all three (though I didn't think Duncan played all that well) playing relatively well, the Spurs still lost to a team missing it's go-to scorer, two centers, 6th man and the fill in for their go-to scorer. I don't know if I'd say 0% no matter what, how does 0.5% sound?
The purpose/point was that, in the past, given the situation this team is in, I feel that shot goes down and they use this win as a springboard. Now, it appears there is no end in sight because, it doesn't look like this is some slump or a situation where they need one big win to get over the hump or turn the corner. Instead, it looks like this is just what this team is now; mediocre and a pretender.
McDyess was 2-8 from the field(10 boards too though) and Jefferson was 3-8 from the field and did nothing else, as usual..I wouldn't call those "decent" games..
There was also no 3-point shooting, no contributions at all from our #4, #5 and #6 wing players, and this team doesn't play D anymore..
I think the big 3 playing at the level we expect is easily enough to win a title..the role players aren't even close to being enough though..
I'm all for the half full approach, but we cannot continue to give games away when we have played so well. Portland made shots, and forced turnovers, so props to them. Where's the mental focus to close the game out? Transition defense was absolutely terrible. Shot selection has to improve in crunch time.
Don't take it out on me because you posted a ridiculous thread and didn't get the usual cadre of bouquets that you're used to and were probably expecting.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Dyess played fantastic d on Aldridge most of the time, better than Tim Duncan did IMO, and snared those boards. He did concede a couple glaring mistakes when he didn't get a hand up on Webster. As for RJ, no it actually isn't a decent game for him, I agree. Blair and Hill both stepped up, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
So after telling me to give it up and saying I'm clinging to hope, you haven't given up and are clinging to hope? Got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
I'm sure even you can agree that without a healthy Big Three, that 0.5% goes down to 0.0%. (And note that this thread isn't about the Big Three playing well at the same time, it's about the Big Three being healthy for the first time all season. Huge difference.)
This team is one "Bowenesqe" type perimeter defender, who like Bruce, can score enough to keep defenses honest, away from truly contending.
I'll actually agree with McDyess, but he's usually automatic with his J..I'll say that he played well though, other than the missed rotations, which obviously hurt..Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
Jefferson is supposed to be a huge part of this team though..
Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Now I gotta think this cat is just trolling. Either that or he needs to go back to post one and start from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Agreed; while it's a tad bit sad we're happy over our best guys just being healthy at the same period of time, it also gives you hope that this team's best days are still ahead of them. It takes time to get in the groove..
And you're saying I lack reading comprehension? I'm not clinging to hope, but I also can't say with absolute 100% certainty that this team can't/won't win the championship. There's still a good chance they make the playoffs, so from there, technically every team has a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Yeah, I just basically said as much, genius. But what you don't seem to understand is that, while it's not meaningless, it doesn't mean a whole lot anymore because, this team has major issues outside of them, even when they are all healthy/playing well, as witnessed tonight.
I don't troll, as many who have conversed with me on this board can attest to. What's the matter, shocked someone doesn't agree with you for once? How dare I.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
I saw this one coming...
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145866
Sad, yes. But also not totally unexpected. Heading into the season, most Spurs fans said that the health of the Big Three was the biggest concern. Unfortunately, it has taken this long for those three players to look even close to healthy at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
The Celtics are kinda in the same boat in hoping for health ... so it's not like this is too unique. But Boston's advantage is they actually play well when healthy. The Spurs, on the other hand, still are a mediocre team even at 100% right now.
From what standpoint?Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
Blair needs to rotate a lot quicker from the weak side and become more aware on that end of the court. The Blazers' guards were just going straight to him off the pick and roll, where he was either late and out of position outside the circle, or he was late and had good position inside the circle.
All three of your suggested players had horrible and I mean horrible transition defense. I'm tempted to go back and watch the game because I guarantee you the Blazers scored at least 15-20 points off uncontested wide open opportunities in transition because our players lost their man or simply didn't communicate to pick up eachother's man in transition. All that takes is focus and energy. That's why it is so frustrating.
As for McDyess, I thought McDyess played great one on one defense on Aldridge. Aldridge just hit some really tough fade-aways and contested jumpers all game. I think McDyess is an under-rated one on one defender. He's defended Odom, Nowitzki and many other premiere power forwards quite well.
As for Hill, I think 38 minutes is too much for him. I've been beating this to death, but Spurs need to find a starting caliber well rounded wing to replace the Mason/ Bogans/ Finley combination and also to relieve Jefferson and Hill some.
Well..they do have a young guy in Austin that could handle some bench minutes against athletic teams..Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
One check on the list of things we need to contend.
I haven't worried too much about health because you can't control that. The largest leap we need to make at the moment is in defense and consistency. These are things that the players and the coaches should be able to fix, whether through a trade or practice or whatever.
All you can do as a fan is hope the FO sees the same things.
He's gone through different stages, but at this point it almost seems like he just can't get into any sort of rhythm in his current role. What even is his current role? He either needs the Spurs to run a lot more, or he needs to dominate the ball a lot more. Neither will happen consistently with the Spurs squad as constructed.. I think he has a lot of unrealized potential with us, but he needs to accept his touches and make more out of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Hairston is not ready and wouldn't be consistent enough to play 25-30 minutes a night. If Spurs want to improve their chances at getting past the 1st round this year, they need someone better than Mason/ Bogans/Finley and Hairston. Especially with R.J rubbing one out more games than not.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
I wanna see timvp and td 21 throw down in the octagon.
You're not clinging to hope but you haven't closed the door on a championship? What exactly does "clinging to hope" mean to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
That's exactly what I've been saying. Show me anywhere that I said the Spurs don't have major issues. I've said multiple times being healthy in itself means nothing. Again, you are arguing against an opinion I haven't even stated.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
So far you've gone after me for not giving up and supposedly having hope, when you yourself haven't given up and still have hope. Then your next move is to go after me for saying this team doesn't have major problems, which is something I didn't say. At least be based in reality. You are attacking your own opinions more than you are attacking anything I've actually said.
:lmao Wow.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
First of all, more people disagree than agree with me in this thread. Second of all, how can I be shocked when I cued this upcoming flaming in the opening post of the thread?
Got damn.
:lol He's not arguing with me ... I'm not exactly sure who he's arguing with. We actually agree on everything, as weird as that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by jjktkk
He cannot be a huge part of this team. The team and him are not designed that way. Frankly, all I wanted was a Finley that would attempt some defense (and that's all we need). Jefferson doesn't need to go off for 24 ppg to compete, especially when you consider the way he gets his points. We'd be spending all game making plays for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
The problem is that he is really expensive for what you get. Tough luck. We either trade him or keep him as a spot up shooter that can dunk and play no defense (pretty much 06 Finley).
Our interior and perimeter D are pretty bad, and they aren't helped by having Finley 2.0 and a coasting/still learning Dice. I don't think you can change Jefferson's output. Dice at least has the potential to turn it around and we know what he can produce as a role player.
As has been the issue all year, we have multiple problems. I have no clue how to solve them. Standing pat looks like it will be a huge gamble, hoping that all the pieces fall in place. A trade for any decent perimeter defender and scorer (the non-existent Bowen heir) is really needed, followed up by an interior defender.
At least we are healthy, for now. In theory the rest can actually be fixed. I dunno what the last team that actually did a massive retooling actually won the title the same year though. We are leaking oil everywhere and headed to a second round exit as is.
Decent might be over exaggerating a bit, I agree, especially on the defensive end, but if you're expecting these guys to suddenly snap and get it overnight, you shouldn't be surprised at your disappointment. There's clearly work to be done and any steps we take in the right direction need to be taken seriously. Especially with a guy like Blair, who's a rookie and who is going to make mistakes, and who is not going to be respected by the refs and who is not going to be perfect. One criticizes him and demands he get better but you do it with the fact he's inexperienced and he's done a lot more than most expected in mind; and even Hill, who is overrated defensively and still has a lot of work to do on that end because he's still not used to playing consistently against this (starting) level of competition yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Blair definitely has a lot of work to do on defense, and he didn't get a lot of defensive rebounds tonight either.. but he got some shots to fall (including a nice putback dunk) and nailed 3/4 FTs. Gotta take the good with the bad; Pop could simply stop playing him a la Hill, and no one wants that.Quote:
Blair needs to rotate a lot quicker from the weak side and become more aware on that end of the court. The Blazers' guards were just going straight to him off the pick and roll, where he was either late and out of position outside the circle, or he was late and had good position inside the circle.
They were making a concerted effort to run, as it was essentially their only offensive weapon against us. Miller is just about the best you can ask for to do that, as well. They killed us in transition and they got good looks in the halfcourt, but things didn't look out of hand until the last 5 minutes.Quote:
All three of your suggested players had horrible and I mean horrible transition defense. I'm tempted to go back and watch the game because I guarantee you the Blazers scored at least 15-20 points off uncontested wide open opportunities in transition because our players lost their man or simply didn't communicate to pick up eachother's man in transition. All that takes is focus and energy. That's why it is so frustrating.
Agreed. I thought his d has been amazing through stretches, but when he fouls he totally loses all his rhythm. At least he's begun living up to his second-half reputation.Quote:
As for McDyess, I thought McDyess played great one on one defense on Aldridge. Aldridge just hit some really tough fade-aways and contested jumpers all game. I think McDyess is an under-rated one on one defender. He's defended Odom, Nowitzki and many other premiere power forwards quite well.
On Hill, it's really hard to say what is too much for him. He's got the talent, but he's still rough around the edges. I like him getting the experience but with Mason rotting on the bench it's a questionable call. He also missed a few very open looks tonight and that ended up hurting us.
Yup, I hardly agree with anything he says...Timvp is more of a motivator for the lost sheep that are willing to clinge to any bones of hope that they can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
:hungry:
If this is the case, I was very wrong in my preseason expectations.. I actually believed we would run our offense through him during some stretches, but we've rarely attempted feeding him multiple possessions over a short period of time to try and get him going.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabar
There's a reason we traded our garbage for him - he's not worth the pricetag. Just gotta forget about basing yuor expectations on that, especially when the team never runs their offense through him like he's a 14 million dollar man.Quote:
The problem is that he is really expensive for what you get. Tough luck. We either trade him or keep him as a spot up shooter that can dunk and play no defense (pretty much 06 Finley).
I'm liking what Dyess is doing lately. When he brings what he brought tonight (minus the horribly timed defensive mishaps), we're a much tougher team defensively and opponents have to respect his shot. If he can continue living up to his second half reputation, I have a lot more hope for this season still..Quote:
Our interior and perimeter D are pretty bad, and they aren't helped by having Finley 2.0 and a coasting/still learning Dice. I don't think you can change Jefferson's output. Dice at least has the potential to turn it around and we know what he can produce as a role player.
I have to disagree..Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
There's no reason at all that Hairston shouldn't be getting 10 to 15 MPG on this Spurs team that desperately needs athleticism and D on the wing IMO..especially when inferior players like Bogans and Finley are getting 20 MPG to do nothing..
Of course he isn't ready for 25-30 MPG, I agree..
I agree with you that we need a legit starter on the wing, especially for athletic/defensive purposes..either that or a legit big to help Timmy..the better defenses in the NBA use 1 of these 2 methods to play good D, some teams have both..either have the length/athleticism in the paint or have the athletes/good defenders on the perimeter to pressure the ball-handlers and rotate..
Either one works..the Spurs need to get that legit big or that legit wing player..I won't hope for both since that's too greedy, but we certainly need at least one of them..
Boston has their defenders in the paint and the all-around basketball IQ..Orlando has a 1-man defense in Howard with Barnes to guard the best player(this one isn't a good example to follow..I've been watching every Magic game since I follow Carter and Howard's ability as a defensive anchor is just unreal)..Charlotte uses the good perimeter defenders as pressure..the Lakers have a little bit of both, but they primarily play good D due to their size in the frontcourt..Cleveland has the perimeter approach with Varajeo being a mobile big to help..
So it can go either way..we don't have either right now..so a move has to be made..
As for Jefferson, I really hope they're trying to move him as hard as possible..he really isn't going to fit..
I can't comment too much because I didn't get to see the game. But damnit man...when is someone going to step up and help this team win these types of games?
I appreciate the fact that the big 3 looked great. For timvp is correct...this team doesn't have a chance if they aren't healthy.
But what is it about RJ? This guy should be able to take control at some point in a game and give this team something other than mediocre play. The team gets more out of a second year player and rookie than it does from a high paid supposedly top caliber seasoned vet like Jefferson. You can't tell me it's just the "system" that takes time to learn...others on the team are new to it too and seemed to have gotten it before Jefferson.
As a business person this erks to me no end seeing somebody get paid as much as this guy and produces as little as he does. :bang