Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

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Originally Posted by Pauleta14

I agree on that point, he depends on what he is being asked to do, but...

The thing that is REALLY not excusable, is all the "little things" he is supposed to bring, set screens, rebound, steal...

HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A VERSATILE PLAYER !!

The fact that he doesn't produce enough offensively, is disapointing (understandable?), but the rest is INEXCUSABLE for a guy with THAT kind of contract!!!!

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Being a versatile player does not mean playing out of position. We kid ourselves when we see Pop put guys like finley and Jefferson on PF like Aldridge. He will eat them alive every time.

Spurs make the same mistake with Hill. They think that because he has a good game here or there he can defend Dirk or Odom.

Pop has left his old days of coaching like Brown behind him and has moved into a Nelson type coach. The problem is that he is not being honest with himself. Either you play like Nelson and give up and defense and set offensive plays and run small ball. Or you coach like Brown and slow the game down with set plays and a traditional center, PF. You cannot mix the two styles.

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Originally Posted by Pauleta14

Yep..

And in the french media, he was talking about aiming a BIG contract he "deserves" in 2011... (when talking about maybe not playing for the NT next summer and rest his body)

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:bang how convenient of him

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Originally Posted by neboat

RJ is horrible. I thought we were getting a nice player...but he is one of the most useless players on the team. He's like a poor man's corey maggette.

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Maggette gets the ball in his comfort zone much more than RJ does. I've seen nothing but good things when we post RJ up, for example, but we do it so rarely it gets lost in the wash with the other bad things he does (or doesn't do).

I really think RJ still has the talent; but he's just a really bad fit most specifically with TP. In fact anyone who we bring in who cannot play well without the ball is going to struggle on this team playing with TP either it be A. Iguodola, C. Butler, R. Gay, etc. People are saying there are not many point guard in this league with great vision excluding C. Paul, D. Williams, S. Nash, R. Rondo, etc; but none of the other PG in this league are as ball dominant as TP; for example G. Hill doesn't have great visions of the court but when he plays everyone at least gets there touches; whereas, in TP he would dribble the ball until the lane is closed than passing it to the open man maybe in RJ to take the outside shot; therefore limiting him strictly to a spot up shooter. I think we had another player before RJ that also really struggled fitting in with H. Turkuglo, he struggled a lot while he was here since he was restricted to just a spot up shooter, than look at him after he left the Spurs when he played with the Magics. I think if RJ would be a bad teammate "D. Gooden", he could just break plays and look for his own, his number would be a lot better, but he's really giving a lot of effort in being the perfect teammate meanwhile its really just bringing down his game.

My main complaints with Richard are his passivity (almost to a fault for stretches) and his low basketball smarts. Under the spectacular reverse dunks and the glitter, there's a pretty dumb basketball player. Silly fouls, terrible help defender, and pretty useless if he's not the centerpiece of a play. If you add that his intensity declines exponentially when he's not involved in the offense, then you have a recipe for disaster. I thought it was a good gamble to take in the offseason. But now that I've got to see his game first hand, I'm fairly disappointed. If he at least would play with a little more energy constantly, he would mask a lot of those shortcomings.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

Maggette gets the ball in his comfort zone much more than RJ does. I've seen nothing but good things when we post RJ up, for example, but we do it so rarely it gets lost in the wash with the other bad things he does (or doesn't do).

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I agree that RJ does not get enough opportunities... but I don't think RJ has a sweet spot in the half court set. He can post up a bit when given the right match up I guess. The only positive I see is that he is a good finisher when given the space to elevate.

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Originally Posted by neboat

I agree that RJ does not get enough opportunities... but I don't think RJ has a sweet spot in the half court set. He can post up a bit when given the right match up I guess. The only positive I see is that he is a good finisher when given the space to elevate.

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he's not very fast laterally, and I think he gets burned easily because of that.. but I think we should iso him against bigs ANY time we play small, and pretty often. He runs right past his man anytime we go small and get him the ball in good position.

This guy is 29 years old, and scored 20 PPG last season... he's not entirely to blame for his inconsistency. He just doesn't get fed the ball enough to expect an obviously rhythm guy like him to get in a consistent offensive groove. As much as that casts a shadow on Pop and Tony, it's true.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

My main complaints with Richard are his passivity (almost to a fault for stretches) and his low basketball smarts. Under the spectacular reverse dunks and the glitter, there's a pretty dumb basketball player. Silly fouls, terrible help defender, and pretty useless if he's not the centerpiece of a play. If you add that his intensity declines exponentially when he's not involved in the offense, then you have a recipe for disaster. I thought it was a good gamble to take in the offseason. But now that I've got to see his game first hand, I'm fairly disappointed. If he at least would play with a little more energy constantly, he would mask a lot of those shortcomings.

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This is the sad truth.

i think TP is really lucky he's playing in this Spurs organization where its winning, tight lipped, and rosters full of good people; for instance if he was playing on a losing team team such as the Knicks, Nets, etc... he's gonna get it just as bad by the media or your own player for being a shoot-first PG "S. Marbury"; i have had NBA league pass for a long time, and have watched numerous players play, and when it comes to shoot-first when it comes to a PG, TP has got to be ranked neared the top, even worst than S. Francis or S. Marbury, but one thing going for TP is that even though he may be a worst passer than S. Francis or S. Marbury but his scoring is a lot more efficient than those two.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

he's not very fast laterally, and I think he gets burned easily because of that.. but I think we should iso him against bigs ANY time we play small, and pretty often. He runs right past his man anytime we go small and get him the ball in good position.

This guy is 29 years old, and scored 20 PPG last season... he's not entirely to blame for his inconsistency. He just doesn't get fed the ball enough to expect an obviously rhythm guy like him to get in a consistent offensive groove. As much as that casts a shadow on Pop and Tony, it's true.

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Maybe I'm just too disappointed in RJ and just being biased, but I still blame RJ himself for his lack of production due to his limited skill set and low BBIQ. Another way to look at this is: even a flawed Stephen Jackson back in '03 was able to fit in and produce more than RJ.

are you kidding me?

Jefferson was the starting small forward for a Nets team that went to the Finals two years in a row. Granted, the Eastern Conference was weak but they got there.

Also, his line against the '04 Pistons in game three and five in the Eastern Conf. semifinals were impressive. He helped the Nets turn that series around and nearly steal it in six. I'm not saying he didn't have his problems against that vaunted Piston defense. But he gave them everything they could handle.

Game 3: 30pts 8rebs 5assts
Game 5: 31pts 11rebs 4assts
Game 6: 23pts 11rebs 5assts

The guy is a proven winner. He has as much playoff experience as any of our older players. It's short-sighted of Spurs fans to give up on him already. We can't rebuild and waste anymore time with TD's looming retirement. It's up to Pop and, especially TP to figure it out and get him going.

Jefferson isn't the same player he was in the 1st half of his career though, that's the problem..

He lost his defensive athleticism, which has altered his game a lot..he also spent some years on really bad teams where all he had to do was to score and he was responsible for a huge part of the offense of a team..

He can't contribute defensively anymore, he has a lot of bad habits that he picked up when he became a strictly offensive player, and he obviously doesn't fit here..nothing will change this IMO..

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

RJ's poor defensive rotations and lackluster play has reminded me that players, who've played for several years on bad teams have a tendency to develop terrible habits. I zoned in on him speciifically last night, and his effort and reactions, on the defensive end, are just atrocious. Sure, he can come up with a spectacular block or dunk every now and again, but overall he's just bad.

On the offensive end, it would help if he played with had a pass-first PG, but this isn't all TP's fault. RJ gets into the periods where he just floats and watches. He gets very passive, even to the point where he will not make the effort to even rebound!

That said, Pop and RC probably thought they could "coach him up" because he is a willing and coachable player. However, he's just too far gone to be saved. If this isn't the biggest mistake of Pop's regime, I would certainly say it's the most costly failure.

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Agree with this. RJ simply turned atrocious as he spent a lot of time playing for bad teams. Ever since he wore a Spurs uniform, I usually don't see the effort that he needs to do on the defensive end. On offense, he looks lost and most of the time, the ball doesn't go through him. He lacks the effort and the desire to just be a contributing factor. I don't mind him not scoring but his willingness is simply not there

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Originally Posted by Chillen

I think the Scola trade could have cost the Spurs a championship. If you see how the Rockets played against the Lakers in last years playoffs, Scola caused problems for the Lakers bigs. Imagine a lineup now with Duncan, Scola, McDyess to matchup against Bynum, Artest, Gasol. That was the worst trade the Spurs have ever done, they gave up spare parts to acquire Jefferson.

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If they decided to keep Scola, there's no need to trade for Dick. Yes I agree, the Scola trade cost the Spurs a championship. Imagine Scola playing alongside Ginobili and there's no question that they're going to be a two-man wreaking crew

Not even close.

Spurs fans are stupid.

while i completely agree jefferson is playing at 60% right now and sucks on defense, he's just a scapegoat for the spurs' larger woes. ginobili and parker's injuries have destroyed the spurs and the role players such as bonner, rmj, and bogans are even more useless than jefferson.

Who knows? Maybe he's doing his Robert Horry impersonation and will turn into a monster once the playoffs start .. pls.pls.pls.pls.pls.

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Originally Posted by bless1187

i think TP is really lucky he's playing in this Spurs organization where its winning, tight lipped, and rosters full of good people; for instance if he was playing on a losing team team such as the Knicks, Nets, etc... he's gonna get it just as bad by the media or your own player for being a shoot-first PG "S. Marbury"; i have had NBA league pass for a long time, and have watched numerous players play, and when it comes to shoot-first when it comes to a PG, TP has got to be ranked neared the top, even worst than S. Francis or S. Marbury, but one thing going for TP is that even though he may be a worst passer than S. Francis or S. Marbury but his scoring is a lot more efficient than those two.

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Sadly, this is the truth. Once TD retires and if TP decides to play for another team, he'll never win another championship ever. The guy is a one-trick pony and if he doesn't play in his comfort zone, he's useless

isn't he gay?

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Originally Posted by timvp

Are you sure about that?

Sincerely,

Luis Scola

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Charles Smith and Ron Mercer would take issue too.

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Originally Posted by Rogue

It's mainly due to the lack of a pass-first guard that Jefferson currently sucks IMHO. TP is unarguably a great player but his attacking skills/abilities makes up more of his greatness than his abilities of assisting teammates to score.

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says it all....

Jefferson has more of his points off assists than he did last year..he's also shooting less jumpers this year than he did last year, which hurts the "spot up shooter" argument..

Jefferson's offense isn't really that bad..of course it could be better, but it's the fact that he does NOTHING else that is troublesome for the Spurs..

We aren't doing so good, so everyone blames the new guy. This is a common human reaction.