Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

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02-06-2010
VivaPopovich

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

to be fair to RJ, he's forced to play within this system that's taking away from his ability to just drive in the paint

dont think so much pop, let the boys be boys
02-06-2010
Pauleta14

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezau

Sadly, this is the truth. Once TD retires and if TP decides to play for another team, he'll never win another championship ever. The guy is a one-trick pony and if he doesn't play in his comfort zone, he's useless

:lol Some fans are so stupid...

So if we wanna know anything about the future, we just have to ask you, right?
You have a selective memory and your analyse is based on cliché...
You are talking about comfort zone?
Tony has played with so manu diff players that he HAD to adapt his game to his teamates...
Have you seen last year games when he played without either Timmy and/or Manu???

There is a gap between saying he is not a classic PG and saying he is a "one-trick pony" that have won't win anymore championship...
02-06-2010
mystargtr34

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Holy shit i had no idea Luis Scola had become so over rated by Spursfans.
02-06-2010
temujin

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandman

Assuming that I completely missed your sarcasm...

The Spurs gave up a 2002 second round draft pick in 2007 for the Greek T-Mac that would never play for them.

Granted, Scola proved to be a valuable role player over the last few years, but at the time, 5 years after he was drafted in the second round, the Spurs gave up nothing other than potential.

They didn't give up the franchise player, or a high draft pick, either past or future. The impact this trade had on the ability of the franchise to overcome the bad decision of the trade was absolutely zero. They did not handicap themselves in any way, financially or draft-wise, by trading Scola to Houston.

They didn't bet the farm on Scola and then trade him away. He was a second round draft pick that never played for the team. They were not making personnel moves based on Scola potentially playing for them. He was a personnel move based on getting solid role players to support the Big 3, who incidentally, somehow managed to win three titles after they drafted Scola.

I swear, some Spurs fans put the Scola trade immediately after getting DRob and Duncan in the lottery as the moments of fate for the franchise.

Your reasoning:
Scola was a second round draft pick.
Second round draft picks are worth little.
HENCE
Spurs gave up little in the Scola trade.

-Too bad that a second round pick has considerably helped Spurs to win those championships you mentioned.
-Too bad that another second draft pick is having a great season with the Spurs.
-Too bad that Scola had proven to be able to beat the hell out of NBA stars worth >100 millions (2002).
-Too bad Scola's team, with the significant support of Scola, had ridiculized the Popovich/Duncan-led team in 2004.
-Too bad that Scola was the Olympic final MVP. The game of a lifetime, not Manu, Scola was MVP.
-Too bad that Scola was constantly among the top 5 bigs in Euroleague. A tournement that had delivered a relevant piece of the Spurs machine.
-Too bad that, at the very worst, Scola was way way better than Fabricio Oberto, signed with a three years 10.5 Millions contract in 2007.

So Spus traded MORE than potential.

I wrote all his in 2007 and predicted exactly the type of career Scola would be having. If anything, he would have been even BETTER with the Spurs.

I can now predict the type of career Splitter will have, for example.

See, the problem with small market teams is they are NOT allowed many mistakes with the personnel, if they want to stay at the top.
Spurs FO was almost spotless (only Butler comes to mind), before the Scola trade.

The Jefferson acquisition is another bad mistake.

In general, players are not the only pieces of the machine that get older, and slower.
02-06-2010
The Truth #6

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Didn't we trade the pick that could have netted Josh Howard to make salary room to sign Jason Kidd? If that's right, then I'd put that trade up there. If we have Howard we have someone to guard Dirk and we have a better chance of getting thru Dallas and winning a title in 06.
02-06-2010
AussieFanKurt

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

we should trade for Kobe and Lebron!!
02-06-2010
exstatic

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezau

Late in the regular season, he's mediocre at best. At first I thought he's going to make some improvements, but look at him now. He's content to cash in all the money that he gets from Holt and that's it. The sad part is, everybody thought that he's going to be the player that would put us over the hump.

You haven't been a fan very long, have you.

Exhibit 1: Charles Smith I - the big man with one knee and a contract that ran FOREVER.

Exhibit 2: Brad Lohaus
02-06-2010
SenorSpur

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truth #6

Didn't we trade the pick that could have netted Josh Howard to make salary room to sign Jason Kidd? If that's right, then I'd put that trade up there. If we have Howard we have someone to guard Dirk and we have a better chance of getting thru Dallas and winning a title in 06.

Actually, the Spurs did keep their 28th pick that year, 2003. With Josh Howard on the board, they instead drafted Leandro Barbosa and immediately traded him to Phoenix in a prearranged deal. Recall that the Spurs had no interest in spending money on a 1st round pick because the FO had their noses up Jason Kidd's ass, and as such wanted to preserve cap space.

The negative impact of this decision was compounded by the fact that the Spurs had just won the NBA title a month or so earlier, Parker was starting to come into his own, and Stephen Jackson was set to leave in free agency and the FO knew they limited in what they could offer.

I've said this before and I will always contend that the combined decisions (passing over Howard and pursuing J-Kidd) was the single dumbest decision this FO made during the Duncan era. It clearly had long-running impacts that affected the franchise for years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truth #6

If we have Howard we have someone to guard Dirk and we have a better chance of getting thru Dallas and winning a title in 06.

I totally agree with you. Howard WAS a difference-maker in that '06 series and the Spurs came within a bone-headed, Manu foul in Game 7, of winning. Put Howard on the Spurs and not only would it have weakened the Mavs, all of a sudden there would've been no need to import Finley and the Spurs probably win another 2 titles, with a swingman rotation of Bowen, Howard and Manu from '03-'09.
02-06-2010
exstatic

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Who in their right mind thinks Pop even PLAYS a dope smoking, trash talking Howard? :lmao His first "birthday party" would have had him on the trading block.
02-06-2010
duncan228

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

How did offseason moves pan out?
Britt Robson
SI.com

Richard Jefferson, San Antonio Spurs

HOW ACQUIRED: Traded from Milwaukee for Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto and Kurt Thomas

CONTRACT: $29.2 million over this season and next

PROGRESS: It's been an unsatisfying campaign for Jefferson, whose skills have yet to mesh with the Spurs' Big Three of Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. Even accounting for the four fewer minutes per game he is playing (31.3) compared to his career average (35.5), his field-goal and free-throw attempts are way down -- bad news for a natural slasher. His "usage percentage" (how often he is statistically involved in the team's possessions) is at a career low, and his points, rebounds and assists have declined from month to month, even as Parker and Ginobili continue to battle minor injuries.

VERDICT: Jefferson was seen by many as the shrewdest pickup of the offseason, the insurance policy for the injury-prone Ginobili and a quality performer who has always flourished while being his team's second or third option. Instead, he has been disappointing, and almost the opposite of a catalyst. Being deferential hasn't helped Jefferson or his teammates. Maybe it's time for a little more ego and signature drives to the basket.
02-06-2010
portnoy1

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan228

Maybe it's time for a little more ego and signature drives to the basket.

Maybe its time to play some defense and stop letting rookies(blair)and sophomores(Hill) outplay you. Or better yet maybe its time to go somewhere else.
02-06-2010
SenorSpur

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Quote:

Originally Posted by portnoy1

Maybe its time to play some defense and stop letting rookies(blair)and sophomores(Hill) outplay you. Or better yet maybe its time to go somewhere else.

:clap

I know he's been gone a while and it was probably next to impossible to pull off, but Stephen Jackson would've been a FAR better fit on this team that RJ. Jack's attitude, moxie and swagger, not to mention his balling abilities, would've been a welcomed re-addition to the squad.
02-06-2010
The Truth #6

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Quote:

Originally Posted by exstatic

Who in their right mind thinks Pop even PLAYS a dope smoking, trash talking Howard? :lmao His first "birthday party" would have had him on the trading block.

The majority of the league smokes weed and talks trash. That in itself doesn't mean anything. I'm not familiar with the "birthday party incident". I'm guessing it involves women? If so, San Antonio would have probably bored him to tears, the women are generally unattractive, and so it's hard to really say what kind of trouble he would have gotten himself into in SA versus the Dallas lifestyle.
02-06-2010
SCdac

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan228

Britt Robinson

PROGRESS: It's been an unsatisfying campaign for Jefferson, whose skills have yet to mesh with the Spurs' Big Three of Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. Even accounting for the four fewer minutes per game he is playing (31.3) compared to his career average (35.5), his field-goal and free-throw attempts are way down -- bad news for a natural slasher. His "usage percentage" (how often he is statistically involved in the team's possessions) is at a career low, and his points, rebounds and assists have declined from month to month, even as Parker and Ginobili continue to battle minor injuries.

*gulp*

Wow... that is bad... particularly the usage rating and drop in FT attempts.

It's gotten bad to the point where it's not unreasonable to look at Pop, his assistant coaches, and point guards, and seriously ask how Richard Jefferson is not huge piece in our playbook... and is actually REGRESSING from earlier in the season. Yes, it's on Richard Jefferson too, but the guy is getting the "you don't even have more skills than a mid-tier role player" treatment...

It's like buying a brand new car that really wanted for 3 years AND needed, but after a few uncomfortable drives shelving it in the garage for the more comfortable car that was barely getting us around and will probably break down later on.

With the way RJ's season has played out, it wouldn't surprise me if Jefferson is wearing another jersey come march... Maybe even in some deal where we don't get equal value back.
02-06-2010
exstatic

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truth #6

The majority of the league smokes weed and talks trash. That in itself doesn't mean anything. I'm not familiar with the "birthday party incident". I'm guessing it involves women? If so, San Antonio would have probably bored him to tears, the women are generally unattractive, and so it's hard to really say what kind of trouble he would have gotten himself into in SA versus the Dallas lifestyle.

The majority of the league couldn't play for Pop, so that's a non-starter as an argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2008 playoffs VS Hornets

Josh Howard hasn't jeopardized his NBA career with one bad playoff series. But considering his questionable behavior, Mavericks officials might be wondering whether Howard is someone they want representing their franchise.

When asked Wednesday if there was anything he'd like to do over again, Howard said, "Hmmm, some things. But overall, you only live once. You've got to keep your head up and stay positive."

Howard practically disappeared during the New Orleans series. The 6-5 forward, who averaged 20 points during the regular season, managed just 12.6 against the Hornets and shot a dismal 29.2 percent from the floor.

After a loss in Game 4 on Sunday, Howard passed out fliers in the locker room inviting teammates to celebrate his 28th birthday at a Dallas nightclub, a source said. The Mavs were down, 3-1, in the best-of-7 series.

Only a few players attended, the source said. But Avery Johnson confronted the players about the party the next day and canceled practice. The players decided to practice without the coaching staff.

The birthday party situation came two days after Howard went on a local radio show and discussed his off-season marijuana use. It was the third time in the last year he has talked publicly about using the illegal substance.

if you don't understand that these things make him someone who will NEVER be a Spur, then you don't understand the Spurs organization at all.
02-06-2010
The Truth #6

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Exstatic, drafting Howard was the right move at the time. Duncan vouched for him at the time. That he developed with little guidance with the Mavs and later showed poor judgement does not prove how he would have been with the Spurs. Would he be a problem? Maybe, maybe not.

You presume a lot about people. Good luck with that.
02-06-2010
twincam

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezau

Late in the regular season, he's mediocre at best. At first I thought he's going to make some improvements, but look at him now. He's content to cash in all the money that he gets from Holt and that's it. The sad part is, everybody thought that he's going to be the player that would put us over the hump.

Agreed, Jefferson is a "bust". Bad deal...bad deal.....

That man can elevate and dunk...but it won't win games....
02-06-2010
pjjrfan

Re: Richard Jefferson, the worst trade this team has ever done

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Actually, the Spurs did keep their 28th pick that year, 2003. With Josh Howard on the board, they instead drafted Leandro Barbosa and immediately traded him to Phoenix in a prearranged deal. Recall that the Spurs had no interest in spending money on a 1st round pick because the FO had their noses up Jason Kidd's ass, and as such wanted to preserve cap space.

The negative impact of this decision was compounded by the fact that the Spurs had just won the NBA title a month or so earlier, Parker was starting to come into his own, and Stephen Jackson was set to leave in free agency and the FO knew they limited in what they could offer.

I've said this before and I will always contend that the combined decisions (passing over Howard and pursuing J-Kidd) was the single dumbest decision this FO made during the Duncan era. It clearly had long-running impacts that affected the franchise for years.

I totally agree with you. Howard WAS a difference-maker in that '06 series and the Spurs came within a bone-headed, Manu foul in Game 7, of winning. Put Howard on the Spurs and not only would it have weakened the Mavs, all of a sudden there would've been no need to import Finley and the Spurs probably win another 2 titles, with a swingman rotation of Bowen, Howard and Manu from '03-'09.

I don't buy into Howard but I know we should have found a way to keep Sjax. And as much as I hate Jefferson's performance up to this point. This was not a bad trade, not knowing RJ's basketball IQ was so low, at least IMO, I can see the reasoning behind it. And he hasn't been that bad he just hasn't been a difference maker, and most of us fans expected him to be a difference maker, especially for 14 mill a year and straddling the franchise with the luxury tax.

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